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Post by Runningflame on Mar 24, 2023 18:22:22 GMT
Interesting that Kat is apparently able to control this terminal's output devices, but not its input devices, or else she could just input the command herself... My thought exactly. I thought there was gonna be an actual, physical power switch or something. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 24, 2023 18:37:12 GMT
Is it just me or is Antimony a little more uncomfortable with the mere appearance of a keyboard than she should be, given the Court's education? Most operative systems nowadays have a graphical user interface; this one appear to be command line only. True but you'd think Antimony would have had at least a tiny amount of exposure so she isn't completely put off when faced by a solitary >> (or whatever) ...unless of course she cheated her way around it. By The Way I think this was correctly identified as a CLI since I think madjack is probably right; considering the tasks Kat's computers do Kat's system(s) likely runs on the robot's instruction code or something Katbashed from it which can't be displayed in 2d. Also, what does the "sv" on the building in your avatar stand for? It got cut off a little bit. It's actually the svb logo. Don't get me started. |
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Post by bedinsis on Mar 24, 2023 20:58:38 GMT
Most operative systems nowadays have a graphical user interface; this one appear to be command line only. True but you'd think Antimony would have had at least a tiny amount of exposure so she isn't completely put off when faced by a solitary >> (or whatever) ...unless of course she cheated her way around it. I disagree completely. Most people never use CLI when navigating in their computers. Even seeing it and finding it intimidating is an understandable and human response. Also, what does the "sv" on the building in your avatar stand for? It got cut off a little bit. It's actually the svb logo. Don't get me started. Oh, I see. Thanks for answering my question. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 24, 2023 22:30:45 GMT
True but you'd think Antimony would have had at least a tiny amount of exposure so she isn't completely put off when faced by a solitary >> (or whatever) ...unless of course she cheated her way around it. I disagree completely. Most people never use CLI when navigating in their computers. Even seeing it and finding it intimidating is an understandable and human response. I may be showing my age here. Back in grade school I was enslaved volunteered for data entry after school; they wanted several copies of Slow Turtle and insisted for legal reasons that each copy be manually entered keystroke by keystroke because that's what the agreement in the computer magazine demanded. There wasn't computer lit as such back then because it was just too early, though I think I remember some educational games they had us play in addition to art with Slow Turtle. That was around third grade, I think. Later I had a mandatory computer literacy class in middle school and took another in hs for tsr basic since that was highly recommended, as some tsr salesman had completely convinced the school bureaucracy that tsr was what everyone would be using in a few years. All the advisors strongly suggested anyone who was interested in anything business or stem take the class. Of course, a few months after I graduated they swapped out all the trash-80s (and some 1s and 2s) for apples which they then believed would completely supplant clones in all fields within a decade. I know some schools start computer literacy in kindergarten these days irl, but your mileage may vary. Maybe some people weren't as... blessed... as I was. I'd think the Court (having infinite resources and epic stiffies for technology) would be cramming tech courses down the kids' throats at much as possible... but I suppose I could be projecting and Antimony probably avoided any such class she could, regardless of objections, and then cheated/loafed through what she had to take. |
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Post by snowdemonakuma on Mar 25, 2023 1:18:35 GMT
I disagree completely. Most people never use CLI when navigating in their computers. Even seeing it and finding it intimidating is an understandable and human response. I may be showing my age here. Back in grade school I was enslaved volunteered for data entry after school; they wanted several copies of Slow Turtle and insisted for legal reasons that each copy be manually entered keystroke by keystroke because that's what the agreement in the computer magazine demanded. There wasn't computer lit as such back then because it was just too early, though I think I remember some educational games they had us play in addition to art with Slow Turtle. That was around third grade, I think. Later I had a mandatory computer literacy class in middle school and took another in hs for tsr basic since that was highly recommended, as some tsr salesman had completely convinced the school bureaucracy that tsr was what everyone would be using in a few years. All the advisors strongly suggested anyone who was interested in anything business or stem take the class. Of course, a few months after I graduated they swapped out all the trash-80s (and some 1s and 2s) for apples which they then believed would completely supplant clones in all fields within a decade. I know some schools start computer literacy in kindergarten these days irl, but your mileage may vary. Maybe some people weren't as... blessed... as I was. I'd think the Court (having infinite resources and epic stiffies for technology) would be cramming tech courses down the kids' throats at much as possible... but I suppose I could be projecting and Antimony probably avoided any such class she could, regardless of objections, and then cheated/loafed through what she had to take. I had my first computer literacy class when I was in year 2, in 1995. We never once touched the command line in any of my compulsory IT education, all the way up to what Americans would consider the first two years of high school. Nobody needs to use the command line for anything any more in most professional environments - except in some really niche cases that are only applicable to the actual IT staff. And in home use? You only use it if you're a weirdo power user like us.  |
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Post by jda on Mar 25, 2023 2:29:20 GMT
"Morality blocks erased" "What?" "Thank you... Annie, you... pitiful monster" :::UNINST BATCH LOVE > PAZ.db "What.. are you doing, Paz?" -Sorry, Katherina. This is for the good ob us both. Adios." >ENTER |
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Post by rafk on Mar 25, 2023 10:57:36 GMT
Maybe she cheated in those classes too. Or maybe computer operation is mostly the province of the robots, hence not part of general education. But...nah, I think Annie's just been slacking. Lots of people who work with computers every day get really freaked out when you ask them to type a command in the console. She might be familiar with a couple of school-related software, but not at all with whatever Kat's computer is running. Yep. The console is dark sorcery to the kids who didn't grow up with DOS and grew up with the "it just works" generation of products. They may be more savvy than us with a lot of things than us older PC users but this is truth in television. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 25, 2023 12:44:09 GMT
I disagree completely. Most people never use CLI when navigating in their computers. Even seeing it and finding it intimidating is an understandable and human response. I disagree on a technicality.  In that the subset of people never using CLI is where the degree to which those are “their computers” sharply goes down. But other than this, more installation instructions and suchlike suggest reduced ability to as much as navigate paths. And that’s not even counting the one-button-mouse crowd that went there first. |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 25, 2023 14:58:30 GMT
"Morality blocks erased" "What?" "Thank you... Annie, you... pitiful monster" :::UNINST BATCH LOVE > PAZ.db "What.. are you doing, Paz?" -Sorry, Katherina. This is for the good ob us both. Adios." >ENTER install queer trope in love with "straight" best friend |
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Post by netherdan on Mar 25, 2023 19:39:30 GMT
cmd -l/uninst -something_else
That doesn't reads like any scripting language I know of. Usually dash before a keyword means a parameter for the previous executable (in this case "cmd") but parameters normally won't have a slash in them. A slash hints at a path but that should have a space between it and the previous parameter, and assuming the "~" indicates there's more text after that (thus explaining why the speech bubble didn't say "tilde" instead) so I'm assuming there's at least one more parameter to the command after that single slash at the end, and not just a single slash at the end of the command which could mean something else like "wait for standard input" or "use default option" (not sure)
Anyway, if I were to write this to hint at known scripting paradigms, I'd do it as follows:
cmd -l /uninst -something_elseThis could mean "list files or directories called 'uninst' at the root directory" with some modifier parameter afterwards. Maybe trying to remove ways she can be deleted.
Or:
cmd ./uninst -something_elseThis could mean "execute the script 'uninst' on the current directory" with some modifier parameter afterwards. This would be actually uninstalling something.
Or even:
cmd -l | ./uninst -something_elseThat's the dangerous one, it could mean "list everything in the current directory, then execute script 'uninst' using the resulting list as the input" which is basically "erase everything" if executed on the root directory (which is what I believe is what Tom is going for)
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Post by Igniz on Mar 26, 2023 1:15:17 GMT
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Post by drmemory on Mar 26, 2023 6:43:38 GMT
Regarding the question of why Kat doesn't just issue the commands herself - I believe she said a reboot will be required. So they won't just be able to execute a batch file or shell script, but rather will have to do what they are doing now (which I fear is "hacking a court computer"), then issue the reboot command, then issue the rest.
It may be that she believes it'll come up autonomously and be fine after the reboot, but that seems a bit risky to rely on given that her very life is at stake. Especially if she is uninstalling stuff and maybe making other configuration changes just before said reboot! Ay ay ay ay aye...
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Post by drmemory on Mar 26, 2023 7:03:01 GMT
Here are some things we don't know: In what way does she go too far? Has what has happened so far been what she meant to have happen? Like, on purpose? Just because we saw what we saw and she said ooops doesn't necessarily mean things aren't still going to her plan! Will she succeed in her plans, or end up in a state that isn't what she wanted? Are we really in her lab? Is she really having the girls reboot her computer, or having them hack some other computer? Is she really stuck outside her body?
Is the current activity really meant to get her back into her body?
Kat could entirely succeed in her plan and still have gone too far and done something that Annie and Paz would not have gone along with if they knew about it. I'm trying to make the point that we really don't know much of anything yet - not what Kat was really doing, not whether it's working as planned or if it really did go bad, not whether what she has the girls doing will fix it, what "fixing it" would mean, etc. Even if she has not lied at all to the girls, she still may not have told them key facts about her plans. At this point, there are too many variables for me to even make decent guesses. My favorite theory right now is "Kat has been using court resources, both manufacturing and computing, and now she intends to take over their systems completely". The resource abuse would explain how an unemployed teen got control of millions of dollars of hardware and provide a motive for her current actions... She seemed to have a way to get some computer stuff and some lab stuff but what we are seeing now is way past that. I mean, we aren't even on Earth, so where else can she get stuff but from the court? So I think she's got Paz and Annie typing in the commands needed to open a remote shell or something along those lines, and she'll be using it to take over. I'm thinking we are a few episodes away from seeing her mechagodess form appear on all court screens. Which would be dramatic but unnecessary - the best hacks are quiet. 
But even it my theory is correct, it doesn't explain everything, nor predict what will really happen due to the commands Paz is typing. It does explain a lot of mysteries though. Like where she got all that stuff, and why she doesn't want Robot to know what she's doing, for example.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 26, 2023 13:30:21 GMT
cmd -l/uninst -something_elseThat doesn't reads like any scripting language I know of. Usually dash before a keyword means a parameter for the previous executable (in this case "cmd") but parameters normally won't have a slash in them. Since argument formats are up to the executable, it’s either “known” or “arbitrary”. Especially if assistance of the command shell (like expanding asterisks) is not desired. The argument format is “whatever is convenient to parse”. With different tools, anything goes. Often paths are in space-separate arguments, indeed. On the second place is “=”. A shell script usually will take path separated with space because then it can use plain “is equal” condition to identify the current first argument as an option with parameter, read the second and shift the queue of arguments by 2, and that’s the easiest way to do it in a shell script. In anything with a proper library for parsing (or at least basic substring operations) it’s not so advantageous, just used for consistency. While e.g. Java generally takes arguments with “=”, so it would have “ -XX:ErrorFile=path” and “ repository=path” too. In this case, “cmd” could be as simple in functionality as a dispatcher front-end that just takes everything after "l/" and outputs it as a command in terminal of whichever remote system is selected by that letter. Which would make sense in this situation. And would have a “hallmark” of developer’s time-saving workaround. I mean, it’s not the safest way to do things, but it’s a very efficient way to do things. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 27, 2023 12:33:24 GMT
:::UNINST BATCH LOVE > PAZ.db "What.. are you doing, Paz?" -Sorry, Katherina. This is for the good ob us both. Adios." >ENTER install queer trope in love with "straight" best friend "Okay, click into the Cliche folder" |
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 27, 2023 14:35:24 GMT
Annie and Paz run to the rack console from which Kat's voice is emanating (presumably it's still recognizable as Kat's voice, as opposed to some text-to-speech voice). Annie and Paz smile at each other as Kat apologizes for building a maze.
Kat then says that she needs them to type some commands on the console, which Annie is obviously very uncomfortable with doing. Paz, however, says she's picked up a few skills while helping Kat out, and Annie gladly turns over the keyboard to her. So Kat begins telling Paz what to type.
Not much here about what Annie and Paz were talking about as they were getting here, because their attention's now on Kat and what she needs. Maybe it'll just be a quick reboot or a quick run of a script, and everything will be fine? Nah, this is GKC. It'll solve the original problem but open up something even stranger. That's how things work around here.
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 27, 2023 14:38:16 GMT
Is it just me or is Antimony a little more uncomfortable with the mere appearance of a keyboard than she should be, given the Court's education? There are lots of people who are perfectly comfortable writing documents in a word processor or making a spreadsheet but have no idea what to do when presented with a command line. I mean, even some programming can be done entirely within a GUI IDE with no contact with a CLI at all. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 3, 2023 3:37:32 GMT
I will say that I use the Linux command line now that I'm retired, a lot more than I used the Windows command line when I was a professional programmer using VB.Net and SQL Server.
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In that the subset of people never using CLI is where the degree to which those are “their computers” sharply goes down. 
