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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 19, 2022 18:27:55 GMT
The idea being cops are hard to corrupt if you don't know who they are. Some people - including some cops - are self-corrupting, and what better protection could a corrupt cop have? It's okay, they investigated themselves secretly and found they were secretly innocent.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 19, 2022 18:29:13 GMT
... And next is the craziest revelation of this page. Those who leave for the new world will also be forgotten, so legends can't form about them. One implication of this is that the people Kat remembers as only gray fuzzy shapes have gone to the new world already. ... Turned into a Nobody, perhaps...
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 19, 2022 18:39:52 GMT
yeah, was wondering that as well I forget which chapter, but isn't there a scene with Kat complaining that the ether is illogical (maybe in reference to the golem-bots) and Renard explaining the "etheric principle" (it works because it does)? Chapter 18, page 410 is probably what you're thinking of; it came to my mind too. However, I wonder if Tom is referencing chapter 21, page 520 instead: Yet now it seems that the Court is betting everything on a hybrid ether-technology device exactly like Anja's computer. Quite a change of attitude there.
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Post by Isildur on Aug 19, 2022 18:58:21 GMT
Eternal Sunshine of the Etherless Planet
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Post by Lightice on Aug 19, 2022 21:13:17 GMT
The idea being cops are hard to corrupt if you don't know who they are. Some people - including some cops - are self-corrupting, and what better protection could a corrupt cop have? The trick is that the cops (or rather, special undercover agents, regular cops don't get those suits) don't know each other's identities and will investigate each other with just as much gusto as anyone else. In fact, the whole plot is about the protagonist being ordered to bust himself for allegedly being a drug kingpin, and losing his sense of identity in the process.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Aug 20, 2022 0:37:26 GMT
I forget which chapter, but isn't there a scene with Kat complaining that the ether is illogical (maybe in reference to the golem-bots) and Renard explaining the "etheric principle" (it works because it does)? Chapter 18, page 410Â is probably what you're thinking of; it came to my mind too. However, I wonder if Tom is referencing chapter 21, page 520 instead: Yet now it seems that the Court is betting everything on a hybrid ether-technology device exactly like Anja's computer. Quite a change of attitude there. Thank you! I swear there's another page somewhere where Renard (or someone else) specifically says the words "the etheric principle", but I may be imagining things. How often I wish for a searchable transcription of all the GC pages. I suppose the Court justifies their use of ether-tech as a (distasteful, quoth Aata) necessary 'evil' and means to an end, but it is boundlessly ironic that they're relying on the ether in order to escape it.
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Post by todd on Aug 20, 2022 1:23:59 GMT
Another implication of this is that if legends formed about the new world or those who went there, the effect of those legends could travel across space via the Ether to the new world and influence events there. Aata himself says that the Court takes the protection of this new world very seriously. But Aata, Shell, Kat, and Annie are talking about the new world and remember it, and the Court. They will tell stories about the new world, and even if they don't, telling stories about the Court will cause legends to arise about where the Court went. What is the Court going to do to prevent that? Are they going to mass-mindwipe everyone who remains behind? Nuke the entire area? Destroy the Earth, or at least all sentient life on it? And what about beings who live entirely in the Ether and know about the Court? What about Jones? They would still be able to tell Ether-sensitive individuals about the Court, and those stories might be repeated. But the Court has been planning this for centuries, so they certainly have some plan in mind, and nobody is safe from it. It would certainly be a new low for the Court if it stooped to that kind of mouth-shutting (if that's what they're going to do, I wonder whether they'd e emphasizing "no communications with Earth" in order to keep the dupes who went with them from finding out).
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 20, 2022 15:54:32 GMT
Chapter 18, page 410 is probably what you're thinking of; it came to my mind too. However, I wonder if Tom is referencing chapter 21, page 520 instead. Thank you! I swear there's another page somewhere where Renard (or someone else) specifically says the words "the etheric principle", but I may be imagining things. How often I wish for a searchable transcription of all the GC pages. We do have a partially completed transcript. I looked through it for "etheri" and found Jones explaining some things on pages 370 to 371, including the phrase "etherial tenet." Could that be what you're remembering?
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 20, 2022 16:14:24 GMT
Funny, I (most likely incorrectly) thought Tom's comment referred to Aata speaking of an "infection" and Annie remembering Coyote seeing "human intellect as a disease". But it's probably not that.
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Post by quinnr on Aug 20, 2022 23:10:00 GMT
I wonder where the New People will fit into all of this. I would think they're probably not invited on the trip. Does the memory wipe work on Robots? They've already created at least one legend of their own, and I can't imagine they'd forget their angel.
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Post by speedwell on Aug 21, 2022 22:16:26 GMT
I wonder where the New People will fit into all of this. I would think they're probably not invited on the trip. Does the memory wipe work on Robots? They've already created at least one legend of their own, and I can't imagine they'd forget their angel. I haven't yet seen a highly regarded work of literature that seriously deals with artificial intelligence qua main or supporting character without also dealing with the question of whether an AI person is or is not regarded as property by human individuals, groups, corporations, religions, etc. I would not put it past the Court simply to assume that they can take their robotic thralls with them, old or New, and to have plans in place to coerce a perhaps unwilling Kat's compliance. After all, if they regarded what she did as Etheric or if they questioned her loyalties, she would hardly be invited to the "secret" meetings. Edit: Yes, yes, I know, you know, and the dogs in the street know, that Diego used "magitech" to create the robots and that it requires a superpower level of talent and insight for Kat to use that as a jumping-off point for refinements and improvements. It does not seem like much of a stretch for us to assume that technology and that insight is Etheric in nature. However we haven't seen any evidence the Court were arsed to try to understand Diego's (or even Kat's) actual work. Evil is lazy and stupid.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Aug 22, 2022 6:57:19 GMT
It's quite likely that some have already made the journey in preparation. But I don't think the people invited to the meeting did. You'd have to give them more than five minutes to make a decision and pack a bag. This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does.
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Post by philman on Aug 22, 2022 7:59:56 GMT
It's quite likely that some have already made the journey in preparation. But I don't think the people invited to the meeting did. You'd have to give them more than five minutes to make a decision and pack a bag. This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does. Creepy... I like it.
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Post by rafk on Aug 22, 2022 8:33:42 GMT
It's quite likely that some have already made the journey in preparation. But I don't think the people invited to the meeting did. You'd have to give them more than five minutes to make a decision and pack a bag. This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does. Tremendous idea, right or wrong.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 22, 2022 12:07:45 GMT
It's quite likely that some have already made the journey in preparation. But I don't think the people invited to the meeting did. You'd have to give them more than five minutes to make a decision and pack a bag. This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does. Damn, I hope this turns out to be true.
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Post by todd on Aug 22, 2022 13:12:41 GMT
This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does. I'd thought that it was more a case of the Court being a lot bigger than it needed to be (thanks to out-of-control expansion of the Seed Bismuth) - but that theory could work as well.
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Post by madjack on Aug 22, 2022 14:05:58 GMT
This may have been going on for some time. Since page one of the comic it has been repeatedly pointed out how huge the court is but oddly quite empty. Has it really? What if it has been loaded with people who have been leaving and everyone forgets them when they are gone? Therefore the Court only seems empty. Maybe in previous chapters there were many more inhabitants, but since this is Annie looking back and telling us about her time in the Court, she doesn't remember all the people that used to be there but left. No one does. Tremendous idea, right or wrong. Damn, I hope this turns out to be true. Going to throw some cold water on this. Aata said that the suit blocks memories from forming, so new memories, not erases ones that were already there like Coyote did with Ys.
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Post by mordekai on Aug 22, 2022 15:53:56 GMT
He also said "anyone leaving to the new world will be similarly forgotten, so stories and legends will not follow them..."
That doesn't sound like they will wear special suits that will block memories of they leaving, but rather as they being entirely forgotten...
I mean, if say Janet or Shell were to disappear suddenly now, Annie and Kat would figure she left for the new planet, and they could still make tales about them...
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Post by madjack on Aug 22, 2022 16:07:30 GMT
...Well maybe next time I'll read the whole page. Oops.
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