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Post by philman on Aug 19, 2022 7:03:13 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Aug 19, 2022 7:06:19 GMT
you win the thread by 13 seconds
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Post by aline on Aug 19, 2022 7:06:21 GMT
It's quite likely that some have already made the journey in preparation. But I don't think the people invited to the meeting did. You'd have to give them more than five minutes to make a decision and pack a bag. |
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Post by justhalf on Aug 19, 2022 7:08:42 GMT
Yeah, where has Annie heard it ("and yet it works.") before? Anyone can recall?
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Post by madjack on Aug 19, 2022 7:20:46 GMT
A memory suit huh?  |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Aug 19, 2022 7:33:24 GMT
A memory suit huh? What the heck is even that!? Annie and Kat knowing about it now, isn't that enough for them to make up stories about it and polluting the new world, wherever it is? Also, guys, stories and legends would even form in a vacuum. As soon as they let in one kid, or they procreate in any way in their new world, or heavens forbid, they DIE, they'll bring in stories, legends, myths, ETHER. I kinda want a one-chapter-ten-pager about the people on the new world messing up the first day they arrive. "Fieuw, so good we got to this new world... Why did we come here again? My god, were we running from something? How did we ever forget? It must be a might powerful thing we're hiding from, like some kind of GO..." *Poof* "Hello everyone, I'm Coyote #2, thank you for inventing me again!" |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Aug 19, 2022 7:48:44 GMT
I don't know, unless they manage to make people forget that anyone left for the new world at all, "I saw a strange faceless person whose appearance I can't remember" has better story-growth-potential than "Bob was telling us about the plan to leave the Court".
It appears that their working theory is that the humans who are sent to the new world can't form a new ether with their beliefs, but that the ether on earth can "follow" them there if stories are told about them. I don't know enough about how the ether works to disprove that, but what Aata has explained still leaves a gap in their plan - sure, people won't remember specific individuals, but surely the same thing could happen if people remember the fact that anyone left at all? Do they think erasing memory of the individuals will fix that - or do they plan to somehow "deal with" everyone who is left behind?
If the latter, I'm starting to see how this will create conflict for the further story and not just be a case of some Court folks exiting stage left.
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Post by madjack on Aug 19, 2022 8:18:27 GMT
What the heck is even that!? It's from the movie of A Scanner Darkly. It's a suit that cycles randomly through thousands of images of different parts of people, as well as synthesizes a voice, so you never know who's wearing it. The narcos who are part of the story use them to hide their identity when appearing publicly in official capacities to protect themselves, as well as when interacting with other police in an effort to guard against police corruption. The idea being cops are hard to corrupt if you don't know who they are. I thought it was an interesting parallel to what we're seeing here. |
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Post by stef1987 on Aug 19, 2022 8:35:44 GMT
Yeah, where has Annie heard it ("and yet it works.") before? Anyone can recall? yeah, was wondering that as well |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Aug 19, 2022 8:46:21 GMT
Yeah, where has Annie heard it ("and yet it works.") before? Anyone can recall? yeah, was wondering that as well I forget which chapter, but isn't there a scene with Kat complaining that the ether is illogical (maybe in reference to the golem-bots) and Renard explaining the "etheric principle" (it works because it does)? |
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Post by rafk on Aug 19, 2022 8:46:49 GMT
The memory suit explanation doesn't quite stick because clearly Kat does remember the words said and even that there was a person. To the extent she has no memory of the person's actual appearance, the traditional heavy cloak and mask would work too... Not sure what the point is really meant to be.
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Post by rafk on Aug 19, 2022 8:48:23 GMT
Yeah, where has Annie heard it ("and yet it works.") before? Anyone can recall? yeah, was wondering that as well Are you all thinking of Galileo saying "And yet it moves", because that's what it reminded me of. |
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Post by rafk on Aug 19, 2022 8:49:48 GMT
I don't know, unless they manage to make people forget that anyone left for the new world at all, "I saw a strange faceless person whose appearance I can't remember" has better story-growth-potential than "Bob was telling us about the plan to leave the Court". It appears that their working theory is that the humans who are sent to the new world can't form a new ether with their beliefs, but that the ether on earth can "follow" them there if stories are told about them. I don't know enough about how the ether works to disprove that, but what Aata has explained still leaves a gap in their plan - sure, people won't remember specific individuals, but surely the same thing could happen if people remember the fact that people left at all? Do they think erasing memory of the individuals will fix that - or do they plan to somehow "deal with" everyone who is left behind? If the latter, I'm starting to see how this will create conflict for the further story and not just be a case of some Court folks exiting stage left. "everyone left behind is imploded" has certainly occurred to me as the other shoe waiting to drop here. |
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Post by aline on Aug 19, 2022 9:51:41 GMT
Yeah, where has Annie heard it ("and yet it works.") before? Anyone can recall? Not sure but it sounds like previous conversations between Annie and Kat about the ether. |
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Post by Per on Aug 19, 2022 11:51:13 GMT
Annie and Kat used to be the wacky side character duo, but the true protagonists left and were retroforgottened, so now we're stuck with this. |
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Post by Nnelg on Aug 19, 2022 13:09:40 GMT
Forgotten... Like the Founders' origin?
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Post by ctso74 on Aug 19, 2022 14:15:40 GMT
The current memories of the speaker may be temporary. The suit might be required for an amped-up modify memory spell.
I wonder, what side of the divide is the "erase" button"? I would imagine it erases the memories of the tech and how to follow. If too much is erased, would those-left-behind might come up with the same idea, again? Destruction of the old Court may be required for security's sake, or this may not be the first time this has happened.
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Post by atteSmythe on Aug 19, 2022 14:28:40 GMT
Forgotten... Like the Founders' origin? Perhaps we could learn more about this Steadman person. |
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Post by maxptc on Aug 19, 2022 14:56:34 GMT
So they somehow figured out that other people remembering the details of a person's apperance and voice will let magic myths in, but memories of what they said and what they are planning won't?
I guess I just dont understand science very well.
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Post by warrl on Aug 19, 2022 15:01:41 GMT
The idea being cops are hard to corrupt if you don't know who they are. Some people - including some cops - are self-corrupting, and what better protection could a corrupt cop have? |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 19, 2022 15:22:15 GMT
Rather than dwelling on how unjust it is to leave behind all the former Forest creatures, the conversation moves on. Kat wants to know about the person who was speaking. Aata explains that they were wearing a protective suit that prevents memories from forming – except, apparently, for memories about what they said. This is, he adds, to protect the new world from etheric influence, which would apparently happen if people on Earth told stories and formed legends about this new world.
And next is the craziest revelation of this page. Those who leave for the new world will also be forgotten, so legends can't form about them. One implication of this is that the people Kat remembers as only gray fuzzy shapes have gone to the new world already. They've been forgotten. We don't know who they are and never will. This could also imply that similar gray and indistinct Court background characters from the entire run of the story up to now are simply people who later went to the new world. But it also implies that people whose faces we've seen and whose names we know will never go there. And Kat remembers Llanwellyn from the meeting, which if this is true implies that he didn't go.
Another implication of this is that if legends formed about the new world or those who went there, the effect of those legends could travel across space via the Ether to the new world and influence events there. Aata himself says that the Court takes the protection of this new world very seriously. But Aata, Shell, Kat, and Annie are talking about the new world and remember it, and the Court. They will tell stories about the new world, and even if they don't, telling stories about the Court will cause legends to arise about where the Court went. What is the Court going to do to prevent that? Are they going to mass-mindwipe everyone who remains behind? Nuke the entire area? Destroy the Earth, or at least all sentient life on it? And what about beings who live entirely in the Ether and know about the Court? What about Jones? They would still be able to tell Ether-sensitive individuals about the Court, and those stories might be repeated. But the Court has been planning this for centuries, so they certainly have some plan in mind, and nobody is safe from it.
Annie finds all of this ridiculous, along with the idea of traveling the stars in "a semi-metaphorical state". Aata says that it works. But he also says that "they claim the entire planet exists beyond any etheric influence." As if he doesn't quite believe that's completely possible.
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Post by scottjm on Aug 19, 2022 15:40:45 GMT
So they somehow figured out that other people remembering the details of a person's apperance and voice will let magic myths in, but memories of what they said and what they are planning won't? I guess I just dont understand science very well. Especially if you consider that there is so much photographic and video and evidence of our lives.... As well as just plain paper records. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 19, 2022 15:55:41 GMT
So they somehow figured out that other people remembering the details of a person's apperance and voice will let magic myths in, but memories of what they said and what they are planning won't? I guess I just dont understand science very well. Especially if you consider that there is so much photographic and video and evidence of our lives.... As well as just plain paper records. Maybe in some future chapter, Annie will discover that the (last remaining) Shadow Men snuck into her house and stole photographs of, of.... well, dangit it must not have been important. |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 19, 2022 15:59:54 GMT
I don't know, unless they manage to make people forget that anyone left for the new world at all, "I saw a strange faceless person whose appearance I can't remember" has better story-growth-potential than "Bob was telling us about the plan to leave the Court". It appears that their working theory is that the humans who are sent to the new world can't form a new ether with their beliefs, but that the ether on earth can "follow" them there if stories are told about them. I don't know enough about how the ether works to disprove that, but what Aata has explained still leaves a gap in their plan - sure, people won't remember specific individuals, but surely the same thing could happen if people remember the fact that people left at all? Do they think erasing memory of the individuals will fix that - or do they plan to somehow "deal with" everyone who is left behind? If the latter, I'm starting to see how this will create conflict for the further story and not just be a case of some Court folks exiting stage left. "everyone left behind is imploded" has certainly occurred to me as the other shoe waiting to drop here. Yep. The Big Plan has scary implications for those who stay, maybe for the whole of Earth... Time to call the Pychopomps, Valkyres the Norns for some serious divine help... |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 19, 2022 16:00:00 GMT
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Post by shadow3 on Aug 19, 2022 16:14:20 GMT
"That's crazy!"
"And yet it works."
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"Dreams are real."
~ Neil Gaiman
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Post by csj on Aug 19, 2022 16:56:40 GMT
magnets and miracles
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Post by drmemory on Aug 19, 2022 17:19:13 GMT
yeah, was wondering that as well I forget which chapter, but isn't there a scene with Kat complaining that the ether is illogical (maybe in reference to the golem-bots) and Renard explaining the "etheric principle" (it works because it does)? Followed by "That's a terrible philosophy", if I remember right.
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Post by bedinsis on Aug 19, 2022 17:21:09 GMT
I'm currently going from considering this offer not tantalizing but thinking that I could see someone thinking it tantalizing, to questioning why anyone would agree to this.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 19, 2022 17:21:36 GMT
Failed Cousin Buddha still sorta freaks me out. Or at least makes me uncomfortable. Something wrong with that dude... At first I thought it was just because he was so duplicitous and creepy before, but even retired and in a casual shirt he still puts off odd vibes. IMHO.
He needs to have a creep-off with Robot sometime.
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