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Post by warrl on Jan 14, 2022 20:38:58 GMT
This plan is insane. Probably 1/3 of people living in the court have etheric loved ones they wouldn't leave behind I disagree. Probably LESS than 1/3 DON'T have etheric loved ones and AREN'T etheric themselves. We know for sure that two of the four houses of students are etheric - either human/hybrid with talents, or transformed animals/fairies/etc. from the Gillitie Forest. Don't know much about the other two houses, but most likely there are some etheric talents (possibly unnoticed) in them, and most likely some who are themselves not etheric have very close friends/relatives in the known-etheric houses or among the etheric adults. We've gotten to know something about five (that I can recall) of the Shadow Men: Aata (etheric himself), Tony (etheric daughter), Headmaster Llanwellyn (etheric daughter), Juliette (artificial-human boyfriend), and now Shell (won't go without Aata). So, who's going on this journey? Well, Shell already knows that she doesn't know the whole plan. Maybe some of what she does know is incorrect - maybe even deliberate misinformation. (Clarification edit on that last bit: I don't think SHE is lying, she seems rather upset about the whole plan as she knows it, but she may have been lied to.) |
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Post by csj on Jan 14, 2022 21:08:41 GMT
So they're transhumanist exclusionary radical technocrats no wonder they want an island Are you taking a jab at Krakoa? ;P no but I chuckled hopefully we never hear the moral panic of mystique entering bathrooms (in roblox/minecraft/dwarf fortress) |
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Post by lisanela on Jan 14, 2022 21:23:10 GMT
I wonder how many people in the court actually know everything about the plan. Shell seems to know very little (cause right now her plan is not making much sense), Juliette doesn't know, Jones is just an observer, Tony, Donnie, and Eglamore honestly don't seem to know much either (or be people who would fully agree with whatever is going on).. we've seen so little of the higher-ups - we don't even know what Llanwellyn does really, or what's his rank. I guess Omega knows everything?
Of course keeping some information secret is how most organizations and countries work, but it'd be a bit weird if my government suddenly announced we'd all be going to Jupiter for some reason, except people who can whistle.
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Post by Isildur on Jan 14, 2022 21:49:38 GMT
Shell obviously doesn't know the whole plan. So what she's giving us is a lie by omission at best. The truth is probably either somewhat sinister or dangerous because else, why keep loyal members of the shadow men like her out of the loop? Even so, it seems strange to me how much she apparently trusted a plan that on its face doesn't make much sense. It seems like there at least has to be more to what convinced her (and similar-level or lower Shadow Men) than "magic is unfair" and "Aata-sempai is so cool! *blush*" I guess a practical concern like "A creature like Coyote (or now Loup) is incredibly dangerous and unpredictable, and therefore might someday wipe out humans if it amused him to do so" could qualify, but then why not start with that background as a justification, rather than this more abstract "fairness" stuff? |
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echo
Junior Member
Currently contemplating if Tom's post counts are a reflection of timeloops, or a CSS trick?
Posts: 60
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Post by echo on Jan 14, 2022 22:01:19 GMT
A bit odd. So the robots can't go, or just Juliette's spouse?
They used the arrow to make him if memory serves, so I suppose we could reduce it all to just "no aether allowed."
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Post by SilverbackRon on Jan 15, 2022 1:33:03 GMT
The amount of information Shell doesn't have is staggering. It is nice to finally have one of the Shadow Men speak up about their dramatic plans, but even the right hand of Aata doesn't understand it at all. Why all this work about collecting Ether with those power stations? No, they actually want to get rid of it, or no they want to collect enough so they can destroy it. Or maybe just leave and go somewhere where the Ether isn't. What?? None of these plans make any sense.
And excluding people based on their ability to use the Ether, that is absurd since for decades or centuries they have been gathering people with Etheric talents. So many members of the court have Etheric talent or are related by blood or marriage to someone who does. When they leave, it is going to be an awfully small group with the majority being left behind in this court. Which is fine. Most of those people who are leaving have been real jerks. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Post by lurkerbot on Jan 15, 2022 2:08:08 GMT
The amount of information Shell doesn't have is staggering. It is nice to finally have one of the Shadow Men speak up about their dramatic plans, but even the right hand of Aata doesn't understand it at all. Why all this work about collecting Ether with those power stations? No, they actually want to get rid of it, or no they want to collect enough so they can destroy it. Or maybe just leave and go somewhere where the Ether isn't. What?? None of these plans make any sense. And excluding people based on their ability to use the Ether, that is absurd since for decades or centuries they have been gathering people with Etheric talents. So many members of the court have Etheric talent or are related by blood or marriage to someone who does. When they leave, it is going to be an awfully small group with the majority being left behind in this court. Which is fine. Most of those people who are leaving have been real jerks. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. [Emphasis added] I agree. It makes no sense to me that the Court would now suddenly abandon Talented folks after a long history of actively seeking them out. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the Shadow Men don't represent Court leadership overall and are themselves being deceived of its ultimate goal. Perhaps the Court is using the relocation plan as a stratagem to purge itself of a divisive faction? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 15, 2022 2:16:29 GMT
This plan is insane. Probably 1/3 of people living in the court have etheric loved ones they wouldn't leave behind I disagree. Probably LESS than 1/3 DON'T have etheric loved ones and AREN'T etheric themselves. We know for sure that two of the four houses of students are etheric - either human/hybrid with talents, or transformed animals/fairies/etc. from the Gillitie Forest. Don't know much about the other two houses, but most likely there are some etheric talents (possibly unnoticed) in them, and most likely some who are themselves not etheric have very close friends/relatives in the known-etheric houses or among the etheric adults. We've gotten to know something about five (that I can recall) of the Shadow Men: Aata (etheric himself), Tony (etheric daughter), Headmaster Llanwellyn (etheric daughter), Juliette (artificial-human boyfriend), and now Shell (won't go without Aata). So, who's going on this journey? Maybe just the top leadership and some key people involved in operations, finance and security. Special exceptions may be made for especially important people and their families. Maybe the etheric energy isn't needed for any particular goal; maybe it's needed for political reasons. With it Johnathan can lead the Court higher-ups in a daring advance to the rear under the banner of moving closer to their ideal while saying they've accomplished what they wanted there. I'm thinking the new Gunnerkrigg Court will be at Martha's Vineyard or the Hamptons or something like that. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 15, 2022 2:22:49 GMT
I disagree. Probably LESS than 1/3 DON'T have etheric loved ones and AREN'T etheric themselves. We know for sure that two of the four houses of students are etheric - either human/hybrid with talents, or transformed animals/fairies/etc. from the Gillitie Forest. Don't know much about the other two houses, but most likely there are some etheric talents (possibly unnoticed) in them, and most likely some who are themselves not etheric have very close friends/relatives in the known-etheric houses or among the etheric adults. We've gotten to know something about five (that I can recall) of the Shadow Men: Aata (etheric himself), Tony (etheric daughter), Headmaster Llanwellyn (etheric daughter), Juliette (artificial-human boyfriend), and now Shell (won't go without Aata). So, who's going on this journey? Maybe just the top leadership and some key people involved in operations, finance and security. Special exceptions may be made for especially important people and their families. Maybe the etheric energy isn't needed for any particular goal; maybe it's needed for political reasons. With it Johnathan can lead the Court higher-ups in a daring advance to the rear under the banner of moving closer to their ideal while saying they've accomplished what they wanted there. I'm thinking the new Gunnerkrigg Court will be at Martha's Vineyard or the Hamptons or something like that. Or the Lake of the Coheeries. |
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Post by flowsthead on Jan 15, 2022 4:43:28 GMT
I think cutting everyone off from the ether still makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean you would bring everyone. Shell's statement can be read as "you (in your current form) cannot go" to someone like Annie, and Renard and Arthur would never be able to go. If Renard loses his connection the ether, then he just becomes a normal fox, so he's not particularly useful anyway.
As far as the human population, that's hard to say. I don't think the population of the court is like Hogwarts. It's not just the boarding school part of it. Forgetting the families of all the students and people working there, it seems like they have a ton of research facilities. It's impossible to tell how many people reside in the Court, but I wouldn't use the school as the basis. I would assume they pick up scientists and interesting folk all across the world, and then some of those people have families or children, or some of those people are children, and thus the school exists. But the Founders weren't creating a school, so there is no reason to assume the school makes up the population.
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Post by bicarbonat on Jan 15, 2022 7:51:38 GMT
So they're transhumanist exclusionary radical technocrats no wonder they want an island Goddamn TERTs. But seriously, they seem to want to rewrite reality on 2 levels: 1) literally harnessing the ether in new stomping grounds that they'll bend to their will 2) a vile version of what Kat's done for the robots – they aren't etheric, just like the robots aren't human. What changes things for both parties is deliberate, calculated intervention. If the Court has its way, they will achieve a kind of etheric property. Unlike the New Humans, they are achieving this change at the expense of others, literally leeching one of the very individuals that they seek to imitate. Kind of reminds me of "Lovecraft Country." |
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Post by Ophel on Jan 15, 2022 11:31:55 GMT
Maybe the reason why they need so much ether is to generate a bubble that pushes out all the ether in a specific locality, creating a zero-ether environment.
That is, of course, assuming the ether is indeed used for a no-ether utopia.
Kinda like a reverse WandaVision bubble.
Or, they could be planning something like the Pokemon Universe reset like in Diamond or Pearl
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All these speculations, I can't help but think that at the end, if they do reach that end, that something like Tower of Babel outcome would happen (the scene depicted by the Tower tarot card),
a major catastrophic event that may or may not be apocalyptic in severity
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 15, 2022 12:31:18 GMT
Headmaster Llanwellyn (etheric daughter) Since when is Janet a confirmed Ether user? |
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Post by todd on Jan 15, 2022 13:12:29 GMT
All these speculations, I can't help but think that at the end, if they do reach that end, that something like Tower of Babel outcome would happen (the scene depicted by the Tower tarot card), a major catastrophic event that may or may not be apocalyptic in severity I was amused by the Tower of Babel reference, since it reminded me of the fate of N.I.C.E. in C. S. Lewis's "That Hideous strength", an organization which I have long thought often resembles the Court (except that N.I.C.E. was more straightforwardly villainous). |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 15, 2022 15:40:11 GMT
Headmaster Llanwellyn (etheric daughter) Since when is Janet a confirmed Ether user? It hasn't been confirmed to my knowledge, though I have a vague memory of someone asking Mr. Siddell some way or other if her talent with archery ran in her family and I thought the answer was some version of yes (or at least not a no). A fast search on this forum and formspring did not produce any results so this is also unconfirmed. I don't think it matters, though. If she has etheric abilities manifest or latent, etheric ancestry, or just inherited good hand/eye coordination and depth perception, she's not going to be on any exclusion list if such a list comes to be. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 15, 2022 16:15:01 GMT
It occurred to me to be a bit surprised that we are taking anything Shell says at face value at all. Everything about this has started to smell like Shell following instructions to pump Annie for information and give misinformation in return. Shell is no dummy or weakling if she was recruited for the Shadow Men. I don't trust her, her agenda, or her extremely flexible alliances.
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Post by lurkerbot on Jan 15, 2022 16:49:42 GMT
Maybe the reason why they need so much ether is to generate a bubble that pushes out all the ether in a specific locality, creating a zero-ether environment. Or maybe the opposite - create a bubble that keeps all the Ether in, with most or all of the Etheric users trapped inside and unable to affect the outside world. This might explain why the Court has worked for so long to gather Talented people into one location; once there, the Court could then isolate them and move into a world now largely free of Etheric "contamination". I doubt this would be effective since we're repeatedly shown by example and implication that the Ether permeates at least all of the world, if not more, in the Gunnerkrigg universe. But I think it's likely that the Court has a different view of Gunnerkrigg reality than we the readers do. |
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Post by todd on Jan 16, 2022 0:51:41 GMT
Shell's response when she realizes that the Court's plan doesn't make sense seems genuine and unfeigned to me. I wonder if it's a case of her being so accustomed to accept the Court's orders without questioning (the kind of mind-set the Court would want to encourage in its agents) that it wasn't until someone asked her why that she realized the hole in it. (I wonder whether the Court has realized that its official story doesn't make that much sense - not a desirable situation, unless you're counting on the populace taking a "blind acceptance" stance).
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Post by Ophel on Jan 16, 2022 3:52:09 GMT
The Shadow Men clearly has their own hierarchy, and different ranks have access to need-to-know basis information.
It looks like Shell here might be lower ranking. Certainly Aata is high up there
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Post by sleepcircle on Jan 16, 2022 16:24:09 GMT
I don't trust her, her agenda, or her extremely flexible alliances. I think her alliance is iron-hard, and is specifically to Aata. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 16, 2022 17:33:40 GMT
I don't trust her, her agenda, or her extremely flexible alliances. I think her alliance is iron-hard, and is specifically to Aata. Alliances, plural. |
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Post by sleepcircle on Jan 16, 2022 18:38:03 GMT
gurl i ain't typing it twice
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Post by speedwell on Jan 16, 2022 18:54:33 GMT
gurl i ain't typing it twice Good, then you'll have time to think it through once. |
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Post by OrzBrain on Jan 17, 2022 3:08:19 GMT
Kat's budding cult might object to their Goddess leaving...
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Post by drmemory on Jan 17, 2022 7:36:34 GMT
It occurred to me to be a bit surprised that we are taking anything Shell says at face value at all. Everything about this has started to smell like Shell following instructions to pump Annie for information and give misinformation in return. Shell is no dummy or weakling if she was recruited for the Shadow Men. I don't trust her, her agenda, or her extremely flexible alliances. Heh. I agree. This is why I kept asking about why she was wandering around in the dark, alone, dressed up for a date or clubbing, and just happened upon the NP depot, and more importantly, stayed instead of proceeding on her way to her date or whatever it was after an expression of surprise.
Did Aata send her? Or Llanwellyn maybe? She showed up out of the blue, out of character in so many ways, and isn't really giving up any useful info...
It could be worse, actually. Maybe Shell has been kept in the dark intentionally, perceived as a weak link for some reason. Or maybe she's being controlled by Omega - a remote shell, as it were. 
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Post by sleepcircle on Jan 17, 2022 7:46:23 GMT
gurl i ain't typing it twice Good, then you'll have time to think it through once. sorry, i was just joking. i meant "i think she has only one main alliance at this point and I think it is to aata." i read where you said 'alliances'—you implied i had not understood you meant plural alliances—i just meant i disagreed in your assessment on a fundamental level and that my phrasing of a single alliance was deliberate. edit: she may believe that she has an alliance to the shadow men and the court, but frankly i do not believe it would stand up to her adoration of aata for very long. |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 17, 2022 7:47:15 GMT
Some thoughts about what the court's been doing with ether...
The power stations were meant to draw ether out of the environment and store it. At the time, I thought they stopped when they got enough, but perhaps they were just trying to figure out how to use it. It may be that they just can't get enough out of seawater for their purposes.
They (the court) need a bunch of ether for some reason. According to Shell, the supremacist move. It could be true but makes little sense - if ether is required to carry out the move or to set up the court after it moves or whatever, it seems like they'd need some ether on an ongoing basis for maintenance.
Based on what Shell has said and other hints, it seems like they only know how to use ether as a power source, and don't understand etheric beings in the least. It must be really powerful or needed for something specific, if they think they need a Coyote's worth of ether! Frankly, they don't seem very good at using the etheric energy - just using it like a battery is inelegant compared to what the various animals can do, much less the gods or demi-gods or what have you.
Anyway, Shell didn't tell us much, but she did pretty much confirm that they just want it as an energy source, and don't much care about those who were "unfairly" using it before they stole it. This still feels like it could be an Omega scam to me - maybe he needs a lot of etheric energy to power his ascension.
BTW, if they succeed in using up or destroying a large portion of the ether, won't that make the world stop turning?
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 17, 2022 9:27:16 GMT
It's possible that the Court fears … Or it may be that the Court just hasn't thought Who is Mister Court? 🤨 Shell obviously doesn't know the whole plan. So what she's giving us is a lie by omission at best. The truth is probably either somewhat sinister or dangerous because else, why keep loyal members of the shadow men like her out of the loop? I wonder how many people in the court actually know everything about the plan. Shell seems to know very little (cause right now her plan is not making much sense), Juliette doesn't know, Well, if it can't be told to Shadow men, including a devoted member of their cabal apparently trusted with an important part of an important mission (then again, it does look like "hold this lightning rod" kind of a job)... it sounds like whatever the real plan is cannot look decent without a big fig leaf. It occurred to me to be a bit surprised that we are taking anything Shell says at face value at all. Everything about this has started to smell like Shell following instructions to pump Annie for information and give misinformation in return. Shell is no dummy or weakling if she was recruited for the Shadow Men. I don't trust her, her agenda, or her extremely flexible alliances. Not everything. The misinformation is too weak. Her story led to obvious questions immediately, and there was no chance it wouldn’t. Thus, this story is more likely to be intended for someone willing to accept it on wishful thinking (such as Shell), rather than snooping skeptical ne'er-do-wells forming their own cabal because they already distrust others (such as Annie and Kat). Of course, this could be the real feint… |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jan 17, 2022 10:35:24 GMT
The amount of information Shell doesn't have is staggering. It is nice to finally have one of the Shadow Men speak up about their dramatic plans, but even the right hand of Aata doesn't understand it at all. Why all this work about collecting Ether with those power stations? No, they actually want to get rid of it, or no they want to collect enough so they can destroy it. Or maybe just leave and go somewhere where the Ether isn't. What?? None of these plans make any sense. And excluding people based on their ability to use the Ether, that is absurd since for decades or centuries they have been gathering people with Etheric talents. So many members of the court have Etheric talent or are related by blood or marriage to someone who does. When they leave, it is going to be an awfully small group with the majority being left behind in this court. Which is fine. Most of those people who are leaving have been real jerks. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I posted previously in this thread about how both Tony and Ysengrin believe that Annie will be part of the move to the new Court. There's definitely parts of this plan that Shell doesn't know. Maybe they plan to take away the ether from people with abilities? That might even be the new "ether source" they're gonna use. It would make sense for Tony to be fine with trying to take away Annie's fire elemental side since that is what killed her mother and might kill her too one day. |
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Post by Isildur on Jan 18, 2022 22:02:42 GMT
The amount of information Shell doesn't have is staggering. It is nice to finally have one of the Shadow Men speak up about their dramatic plans, but even the right hand of Aata doesn't understand it at all. Why all this work about collecting Ether with those power stations? No, they actually want to get rid of it, or no they want to collect enough so they can destroy it. Or maybe just leave and go somewhere where the Ether isn't. What?? None of these plans make any sense. And excluding people based on their ability to use the Ether, that is absurd since for decades or centuries they have been gathering people with Etheric talents. So many members of the court have Etheric talent or are related by blood or marriage to someone who does. When they leave, it is going to be an awfully small group with the majority being left behind in this court. Which is fine. Most of those people who are leaving have been real jerks. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Unless the higher-ups think they can somehow strip etheric aspects from certain people? I suspect it would go about as well as trying to strip out all the calcium from someone. Or maybe they lied and told some people like Tony that they discovered a means of doing so? That might appeal to him as a way of breaking the fire-spirit-mother-wasting-away cycle. Ysengrin-inside-Loup did claim they intended to take Annie "far away" though, so maybe they do think they can? Or would she be "far away" not by making it all the way to the destination, but by being ghoulishly converted along the way to some sort of ether substance powering their escape from the ether-infused world? Set up as a new Jeanne-like boundary between a new ether-less universe budded off and the present universe? (I don't mean to get too creepy, but all bets seem off, given the monstrous stuff done to Jeanne and her love, and the fact that the Court seems hell-bent on reenacting that past sundering in a more permanent way.) |
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