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Post by Timberwere on Jan 12, 2022 8:09:17 GMT
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Post by watermist on Jan 12, 2022 8:13:20 GMT
A couple things immediately leapt to mind.
Firstly, this meant people like Anja wouldn’t be allowed to come. Somehow I don’t think Kat or Donny would appreciate that.
Secondly, remember how Ysengrin was pretty sure that the Court plans to take Annie with them?
This leads to an ominous question: If the Court is only taking people who can’t use the ether… what do they plan to do to Annie’s fire half?
…this makes me more suspicious of Tony’s earlier research into how to “prevent” Surma from dying…
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Post by philman on Jan 12, 2022 8:14:12 GMT
Hmm, it's not unusual for the rank and file members of an organisation to understand the inner scientific and engineering workings of a complicated project, but it does suggest there is some other intention at play here that Shell isn't aware of
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Post by madjack on Jan 12, 2022 8:16:54 GMT
Ask about the damned Omega project, Annie.
We know Shell knows about this, at least.
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Post by jda on Jan 12, 2022 8:19:02 GMT
So, an EtherNation will be created with all the etheric users/beings united? That does not square with Ysengrin's warning about The Court taking Annie far, far away, so my theory is that they will just "destroy" their powers. Maybe the Omega device will nullify the etheric side of everybody, so all humans can go with them? What about Rey? Will Rey be dispelled to just a ghost? |
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Post by rafk on Jan 12, 2022 8:20:37 GMT
So suddenly we have the threat that when the Court moves, Annie and Anja will be left behind while the Court will want to take Kat, Donnie and Tony... And the clock is ticking!
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laaaa
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Post by laaaa on Jan 12, 2022 8:42:59 GMT
I fail to see how any of this is, by itself, a threat or a bad thing. "If you don't want to take us with you, then good riddance! We don't want to come with you either." Arthur and his gf (forgot her name) wanted to leave. Tonny and Surma wanted to stay away. Similar to the "they were going to remove [Annie] from the program entirely" threat. The only way this is a bad thing is if the Court plans to annihalate or enslave etheric beings by force when they leave.
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Post by csj on Jan 12, 2022 8:56:03 GMT
gotta power the anti-ether bubble somehow
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Jan 12, 2022 9:11:52 GMT
So, an EtherNation will be created with all the etheric users/beings united? That does not square with Ysengrin's warning about The Court taking Annie far, far away, so my theory is that they will just "destroy" their powers. Maybe the Omega device will nullify the etheric side of everybody, so all humans can go with them? What about Rey? Will Rey be dispelled to just a ghost? Two thoughts: Annie could be a very big etheric power source, and eeerm... Omega could very well be an etheric hydrogen bomb to level the entire forest and everything in it. So yeah, it'll "nullify" every etheric being. |
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Post by aline on Jan 12, 2022 9:35:46 GMT
I fail to see how any of this is, by itself, a threat or a bad thing. "If you don't want to take us with you, then good riddance! We don't want to come with you either." Arthur and his gf (forgot her name) wanted to leave. Tonny and Surma wanted to stay away. Similar to the "they were going to remove [Annie] from the program entirely" threat. The only way this is a bad thing is if the Court plans to annihalate or enslave etheric beings by force when they leave. I disagree. Many people in the Court have been there all their life. If they're left behind they'll lose at once their home, their job, their entire way of life. People like Anja can probably adjust to some other city somehow, even if they feel terrible about the rejection, but what will happen to those Forest creatures who where made into humans? How are they going to function outside of the Court? I doubt they were even told what money is and how it works. They were used for years for some unnamed purpose and now they're on their own? It's cruel. |
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laaaa
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Post by laaaa on Jan 12, 2022 10:11:44 GMT
I fail to see how any of this is, by itself, a threat or a bad thing. "If you don't want to take us with you, then good riddance! We don't want to come with you either." Arthur and his gf (forgot her name) wanted to leave. Tonny and Surma wanted to stay away. Similar to the "they were going to remove [Annie] from the program entirely" threat. The only way this is a bad thing is if the Court plans to annihalate or enslave etheric beings by force when they leave. I disagree. Many people in the Court have been there all their life. If they're left behind they'll lose at once their home, their job, their entire way of life. People like Anja can probably adjust to some other city somehow, even if they feel terrible about the rejection, but what will happen to those Forest creatures who where made into humans? How are they going to function outside of the Court? I doubt they were even told what money is and how it works. They were used for years for some unnamed purpose and now they're on their own? It's cruel. It's definitely cruel and it's always unpleasant to lose your job/home (twenty times more if its forced) but, come on. Tonny found several weird communities of etheric creatures. The Court is not the center of the universe. Many of these etheric creatures were not born in Court but arrived from somewhere else. Would Red and Ayilu not be able to return to the forest? There are opportunities elsewhere, and there is the possibility that every creature and person scorned by or displeased with the Court will just start their own etheric!Court. Unless the Court's relocation of people is forced, violent or extremely abrupt, then I fail to see the tragedy of it (although I do see its cruelty). |
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Post by aline on Jan 12, 2022 12:28:11 GMT
I disagree. Many people in the Court have been there all their life. If they're left behind they'll lose at once their home, their job, their entire way of life. People like Anja can probably adjust to some other city somehow, even if they feel terrible about the rejection, but what will happen to those Forest creatures who where made into humans? How are they going to function outside of the Court? I doubt they were even told what money is and how it works. They were used for years for some unnamed purpose and now they're on their own? It's cruel. It's definitely cruel and it's always unpleasant to lose your job/home (twenty times more if its forced) but, come on. Tonny found several weird communities of etheric creatures. The Court is not the center of the universe. Many of these etheric creatures were not born in Court but arrived from somewhere else. Would Red and Ayilu not be able to return to the forest? There are opportunities elsewhere, and there is the possibility that every creature and person scorned by or displeased with the Court will just start their own etheric!Court. Unless the Court's relocation of people is forced, violent or extremely abrupt, then I fail to see the tragedy of it (although I do see its cruelty). It didn't say they would all starve and die. You said you can't see how it's a bad thing. I said I disagree because it's cruel to a significant part of the current Court community who will be left behind to fend for themselves. It's possible to decide something is a bad thing and should be prevented before reaching the stage of people getting killed, enslaved or forcefully deported. Not that I think they'll succeed anyway. Stage 1 of that plan was "steal Coyote's powers" and despite centuries of planning that's not exactly going swimmingly. |
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Post by aline on Jan 12, 2022 12:32:17 GMT
So, an EtherNation will be created with all the etheric users/beings united? That does not square with Ysengrin's warning about The Court taking Annie far, far away, so my theory is that they will just "destroy" their powers. Maybe the Omega device will nullify the etheric side of everybody, so all humans can go with them? What about Rey? Will Rey be dispelled to just a ghost? Two thoughts: Annie could be a very big etheric power source, and eeerm... Omega could very well be an etheric hydrogen bomb to level the entire forest and everything in it. So yeah, it'll "nullify" every etheric being. Or they need Annie because they need Tony, who apparently spent decades on this Omega thing. They already used Annie to blackmail Tony into coming back. Presumably they thought he was important to the project. |
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mavis
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Post by mavis on Jan 12, 2022 12:50:41 GMT
If the court aim to "get rid of the ether" am I just assuming they are going to create an "anti-ether bubble" (credit to csj) - with seems a valid assumption since it involves them moving away - or are they trying to eradicate ether universally - but why would they need to move in that case?
Am I just not searching back far enough where they discuss it being a local impact?
Also, what time of year is it in the story currently? It's cold where I am currently and I want Shell to put a jumper on because she's making me feel colder :/
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Post by todd on Jan 12, 2022 13:00:13 GMT
Shells statement makes it all the clearer that we're approaching the end; whatever the "in-story" implications for all the etheric beings at the Court, the story can't continue in a recognizable form after that takes place.
And,k yes, the Court's plan doesn't seem to make much sense. Unless they wanted Shell to think that their goal was to destroy the ether, because it's what she'd want to believe, and their real goal is something else....
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Post by razgrizx on Jan 12, 2022 13:07:26 GMT
So, an EtherNation will be created with all the etheric users/beings united? That does not square with Ysengrin's warning about The Court taking Annie far, far away, so my theory is that they will just "destroy" their powers. Maybe the Omega device will nullify the etheric side of everybody, so all humans can go with them? What about Rey? Will Rey be dispelled to just a ghost? Two thoughts: Annie could be a very big etheric power source, and eeerm... Omega could very well be an etheric hydrogen bomb to level the entire forest and everything in it. So yeah, it'll "nullify" every etheric being. With the naming motif(Gamma, Zeta and now Omega) and the fact that Shell referred to Omega as "Omega said..." I'm pretty sure Omega is simply a person or at least a "being" with amazing etheric abilities related somehow to Zimmy |
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Post by mochakimono on Jan 12, 2022 14:31:53 GMT
I wonder, and perhaps I should place this in wild spec instead, but eh - Since all the fantastical forces in the world are fueled by human belief, but apparently more specifically, beliefs which are carried along into the ether when those humans die, perhaps part of this grand plan involves A. the cessation of all human death (immortality? cryostasis?) or B. a mass disbelief potent enough to retroactively erase the powers of the supernatural (mind control laser beams? Zimmy-powered mass hallucinations?)
Once again I keep getting a foreboding feeling about those increasingly desolate, post-apoc-looking betweener shots of Tea.
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 12, 2022 15:33:04 GMT
"Across the ocean" is probably a euphemism. My money is on a Tardis-like pocket dimension with a permanent Antimagic Field inside. Ironically, that would take a far amount of magic to setup. But, that'd line up with the Court's past actions. They're seemingly hypocritical when it comes to Ether use.
They might be excluding Etheric users for a more pragmatic reason. They may need a good number of Etheric agents outside, for upkeep and adjustments.
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Post by rylfrazier on Jan 12, 2022 16:46:07 GMT
The court was founded to understand and research the ether, right? So if they're planning on restarting their organization somewhere else and specifically blocking out all etheric influences and creatures, it sounds like the court's leadership has fundamentally changed their goals massively, possibly due to the fact that they are giving up on the hope that they can control the ether and are now moving to simply protect themselves from it.
Still clearly this is a vast change in the whole approach of the court and I really wonder how many people will come along, especially if their friends and families are being left behind.
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Post by rabbit on Jan 12, 2022 17:07:47 GMT
Sorry, messed up the format. theonethatgotaway said: ""Two thoughts: Annie could be a very big etheric power source, and eeerm... Omega could very well be an etheric hydrogen bomb to level the entire forest and everything in it. So yeah, it'll "nullify" every etheric being." So Annie could be the battery the Court has chosen to power their scheme, hence Ysengrin's warning about being taken "far away." Or - a much worse thought - Annie is intended to be the new Jeanne, guarding Court v2 against intrusions from the ether. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 12, 2022 17:32:07 GMT
Two thoughts: Annie could be a very big etheric power source, and eeerm... Omega could very well be an etheric hydrogen bomb to level the entire forest and everything in it. So yeah, it'll "nullify" every etheric being. With the naming motif(Gamma, Zeta and now Omega) and the fact that Shell referred to Omega as "Omega said..." I'm pretty sure Omega is simply a person or at least a "being" with amazing etheric abilities related somehow to Zimmy Well it's certainly not any kind of weapon, as it has already been described to be "a way to peer into the unseen world". I personally think Omega is a kind of AI or device that comes closest to what the Court has to analyze the Ether; but they don't really understand how it works themselves, and the information it provides can be misinterpreted.
The court was founded to understand and research the ether, right? Can't remember this being said anywhere. All I remember are those cryptic hints about "some say they were escaping a war", "others say they were hiding from humanity itself". Actually many readers have asked themselves why the Founders chose a place so ripe with Ether when they despised it so much. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 12, 2022 18:01:38 GMT
The court was founded to understand and research the ether, right? Can't remember this being said anywhere. All I remember are those cryptic hints about "some say they were escaping a war", "others say they were hiding from humanity itself". Actually many readers have asked themselves why the Founders chose a place so ripe with Ether when they despised it so much. Jones gave at least one explanation here. According to her, the humans were fine with the Ether at first, since the etheric Forest creatures were super nice and helping them make their own little utopia/refuge; but later, humans became "tired of etherial tenet" (i.e. refusing to question or explain the ether rigorously), and that's how the Court split off and became a different thing from the Forest. |
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Post by ohthatone on Jan 12, 2022 18:05:37 GMT
As far as needing a huge ether source for their non-ether world, I'm going with they need it to power Omega long-term like Anja's ether computer and/or they need a huge boost to sever people's ether aspects. There are a lot of people at the Court who can use the ether, I'd be hard pressed to believe they are just going to up and leave them behind.
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Post by flowsthead on Jan 12, 2022 18:19:26 GMT
Shells statement makes it all the clearer that we're approaching the end; whatever the "in-story" implications for all the etheric beings at the Court, the story can't continue in a recognizable form after that takes place. I do agree with you, but I've also heard this statement for years. Approaching the end doesn't mean we will get there soon. |
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Post by flowsthead on Jan 12, 2022 18:26:49 GMT
The fact is Annie, and by extension us the readers, is getting second hand information from someone who doesn't know everything. We have no clue how much of this is true or not, or even if it's all true, how much of this means something else. I think the thing the Court is best at is making its employees paranoid and distrustful of each other, as evidenced by Tony and That Guy thinking the other is deep in with the court. And while all of this is good and dandy, we've also seen the Court fail a number of times and/or underestimate elements they are dealing with. Loup being literally in the Court has got to screw up whatever they were planning on some level, even if just timing-wise.
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Post by mordekai on Jan 13, 2022 0:10:45 GMT
1.- I think the theory that the Court is moving to outer space, to another planet without sentient life, taking only people not sensitive to Ether with them, is probably correct. They probably think that, without Ether-sensitive people, etheric phenomena won't manifest...
I also think they are all wrong. All humans have souls. All have imagination and fantasy. When they die, their souls will join the Ether and seed it with new gods and spirits...
2.-They probably need a lot of Ether for the machine that will take them to another planet. Aata will probably volunteer to be their Ether battery because Bodhisattva... but the Shadow Men will judge him not strong enough and will try to add Zimmy and Annie and maybe a bunch of fairy kids... there must be a reason they gathered them...
3.-Annie and Anja will have to stay, so Kat, Donlan and Anthony will stay too. So the robots will stay. All of them. Which is a good thing, since they will need their help to keep the city running so the Fairy girls and Forest Animal boys have a place to stay... Kat, Queen-Goddess of Robots! Annie, Spokeswoman for the Forest Folk! (and probably, Annie, Robot People's Goddess of Death...)
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Post by maxptc on Jan 13, 2022 1:05:33 GMT
And while all of this is good and dandy, we've also seen the Court fail a number of times and/or underestimate elements they are dealing with. Loup being literally in the Court has got to screw up whatever they were planning on some level, even if just timing-wise. Seriously, the Shadowmen just going "nope, not gonna worry about that massively powerful Loup guy, just gonna look for a different comparable power source" has got to be a mistake. Loup is mad at you, why would you and your plan be safe from him? How can an organization just move on to the next plan when such a massive potential issue is hiding near you. |
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Post by todd on Jan 13, 2022 13:10:54 GMT
Maybe they mistakenly assumed that Loup's disappearance meant that he'd either died (somehow) or lost interest in the Court and gone away somewhere else.
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Post by mordekai on Jan 13, 2022 13:17:05 GMT
Maybe they mistakenly assumed that Loup's disappearance meant that he'd either died (somehow) or lost interest in the Court and gone away somewhere else. As I said, the Shadow Men run on magical thinking: "we wish it so much it must be true...!" |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 13, 2022 20:15:55 GMT
I will refrain from commenting on the need for a large source of ether and such for the moment and instead ask a different question:
Who doesn't get to go?
If the rule is "some ability to use the ether", then I would think:
Anja (as previously mentioned) Donald (he can use Anja's computer and doors and such, but perhaps that doesn't count) Annie (come on, she's not even human, at least not in full) Kat (she can't SEE ether things but she can use it to make stuff, and has used one of her creations to enter it and act there) Paz (talks to animals, and understands what they say) Andrew (luck power) Parley (psychic teleporter) Zimmy + Gamma (or at least one of them? seems to me they both have powers) anyone who came from the forest (Red, Ayilu, Jackalope Kid, etc. - they basically live in the ether!) Jenny (does being a witch in training count?) Jack (mind meld with spider left him with abilities) Marcia Sutton (clearly not human) Aata (current events) Bud and Lindsey (psychic, not human) Cvet (so not human, though her teenage girl friends would miss her!)
Obviously I'm not sure of all of this. Do witches count? What about clearly not human people? Involuntary powers, like Andrew's? I'm guessing that things that come from tattoos (like Eglamore and Parley have) wouldn't disqualify one.
Who CAN go then?
Baseline humans, like most of the teachers and some of the students Robots (but perhaps not New People or Golems) Tony Carver Bob Sutton Shell Juliette etc.
So all the fun people, or at least most of them, won't get to go. Or perhaps it's better to view it as won't be forced to go. 
I suspect that their rules will be based more on capability than on promises. I bet Aata wouldn't have been invited even had he not slipped when he saved Shell.
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