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Post by pyradonis on Dec 11, 2021 13:20:32 GMT
They're eating off plates with utensils and drinking from glasses, and that looks like a sandwich, so apparently the food they eat isn't too far removed from human food, at least. I'd be surprised if Kat had designed their bodies to require some kind of specialized or hard-to-obtain nutrients. Human food already exists and is widely available. It's not like she's Apple and wants them to only be able to eat special pentalobe food. The Court might do something like that, but Kat's not the Court. I'm more wondering why she made them need to eat at all. As opposed to, say, recharging. Camouflage maybe? I can think of two reasons:
1. To make them as close to humans as possible (compare S13 teaching his followers how great it is being able to hurt oneself and feel pain).
2. Because their new bodies, or at least their new brains, are organic enough that they can't be powered by electrical energy alone and need the chemical energy from organic food instead.
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Post by liminal on Dec 11, 2021 15:01:18 GMT
Kat hasn't ever really seemed interested in Biology specifically and Nature in general. Oh, but she has, as early as Chapter 5! |
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Post by mturtle7 on Dec 11, 2021 20:27:51 GMT
They're eating off plates with utensils and drinking from glasses, and that looks like a sandwich, so apparently the food they eat isn't too far removed from human food, at least. I'd be surprised if Kat had designed their bodies to require some kind of specialized or hard-to-obtain nutrients. Human food already exists and is widely available. It's not like she's Apple and wants them to only be able to eat special pentalobe food. The Court might do something like that, but Kat's not the Court. I'm more wondering why she made them need to eat at all. As opposed to, say, recharging. Camouflage maybe?
Kat hasn't ever really seemed interested in Biology specifically and Nature in general. But, Annie knows more about that sort of thing, and it's certainly possible that Arthur and/or Juliette helped her with that. We never did find out what their specialties were.
I suppose we really don't know how the robots recharged before. I've always assumed they plugged in somehow, or had recharging docks or cradles or some such. We've never seen one run low on power to my knowledge. Which again, makes me wonder why Kat would add this extra, extremely complex set of processes to the NP, unless it was done to help them blend in. Taking in electricity and using it until it runs out seems a heck of a lot easier and more efficient than what our bodies do with food! Intake, digestion, really complex processing, excretion...
As for the question of eating vs. recharging, I guess you could say that it's a trade-off of efficiency for flexibility, which, in a way, is what Kat's work is all about! Bodies of metal and plastic, minds of silicon, and energy based on high-power alternating current might make for a very efficient, but very static sort of creature. As you say, the old robots probably had to rely on charging docks, which in turn are reliant on the Court's infrastructure and power plants. In contrast, the New People can probably eat all sorts of stuff, and do so anywhere they want. Even if they were in the middle of the wilderness, far from any sign of civilization, they could still survive by eating natural organic material! Furthermore, human bodies are already a heckuva lot more complex than robot ones: circulatory systems, muscular systems, etc. all need a steady stream of raw material in addition to energy, so the digestive system is necessary to support the wide variety of other functions that make humans so flexible and good at adapting to new situations. And, if I might get a little more philosophical...hunger can be a very strong motivator to invent and change things, just like pain. Robot's creepy cult inspiring new religious sect seems to be, ah, extremely interested in that aspect of the human experience, and would probably be outraged and confused if it wasn't given to them along with everything else.
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Post by ysenfrown on Dec 12, 2021 2:23:01 GMT
Finally a solution to Annie's "can't have kids without dying" problem. Easy to romance new men. Kat can make the new kids to order... you can have kids with whatever appearance you want that stay the age you like them best. When she gets old she can have the new person husband still young and strong to change her diapers, etc.
As for the question of eating vs. recharging, I guess you could say that it's a trade-off of efficiency for flexibility, which, in a way, is what Kat's work is all about! Bodies of metal and plastic, minds of silicon, and energy based on high-power alternating current might make for a very efficient, but very static sort of creature. As you say, the old robots probably had to rely on charging docks, which in turn are reliant on the Court's infrastructure and power plants. In contrast, the New People can probably eat all sorts of stuff, and do so anywhere they want. Even if they were in the middle of the wilderness, far from any sign of civilization, they could still survive by eating natural organic material! Furthermore, human bodies are already a heckuva lot more complex than robot ones: circulatory systems, muscular systems, etc. all need a steady stream of raw material in addition to energy, so the digestive system is necessary to support the wide variety of other functions that make humans so flexible and good at adapting to new situations. And, if I might get a little more philosophical...hunger can be a very strong motivator to invent and change things, just like pain. Robot's creepy cult inspiring new religious sect seems to be, ah, extremely interested in that aspect of the human experience, and would probably be outraged and confused if it wasn't given to them along with everything else.
I think this mostly begs the question of: will Annie have children, and if so, will she transfer her human consciousness to an artificial body so that her flame dies and is tranferred to her child, while her mind remains? (And is that what Kat's been building to all these years?) |
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Post by saardvark on Dec 12, 2021 2:34:38 GMT
Finally a solution to Annie's "can't have kids without dying" problem. Easy to romance new men. Kat can make the new kids to order... you can have kids with whatever appearance you want that stay the age you like them best. When she gets old she can have the new person husband still young and strong to change her diapers, etc.
As for the question of eating vs. recharging, I guess you could say that it's a trade-off of efficiency for flexibility, which, in a way, is what Kat's work is all about! Bodies of metal and plastic, minds of silicon, and energy based on high-power alternating current might make for a very efficient, but very static sort of creature. As you say, the old robots probably had to rely on charging docks, which in turn are reliant on the Court's infrastructure and power plants. In contrast, the New People can probably eat all sorts of stuff, and do so anywhere they want. Even if they were in the middle of the wilderness, far from any sign of civilization, they could still survive by eating natural organic material! Furthermore, human bodies are already a heckuva lot more complex than robot ones: circulatory systems, muscular systems, etc. all need a steady stream of raw material in addition to energy, so the digestive system is necessary to support the wide variety of other functions that make humans so flexible and good at adapting to new situations. And, if I might get a little more philosophical...hunger can be a very strong motivator to invent and change things, just like pain. Robot's creepy cult inspiring new religious sect seems to be, ah, extremely interested in that aspect of the human experience, and would probably be outraged and confused if it wasn't given to them along with everything else.
I think this mostly begs the question of: will Annie have children, and if so, will she transfer her human consciousness to an artificial body so that her flame dies and is tranferred to her child, while her mind remains? (And is that what Kat's been building to all these years?) So far, we've only seen Kat able to transfer digital/robot consciousness into a synth-organic brain. Not clear if she can do organic to organic transfer. There'd likely be serious ethical and ownership issues with that. Indeed, if she could do it, near eternal life (in a succession of NPs) would become possible for humans.... |
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 12, 2021 5:35:38 GMT
I think this mostly begs the question of: will Annie have children? The question isn't "will she," but " when?"  |
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Post by lurkerbot on Dec 13, 2021 1:03:00 GMT
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Post by warrl on Dec 13, 2021 16:52:56 GMT
We don't eat only for energy. We also eat for chemicals that certain bodily operations require, and for raw materials our self-repair mechanisms can use.
Designing a complete new can-pass-as-human organism with self-repair capabilities at the human level would be rather difficult. Copying an existing design that is known to work, perhaps with a few minor tweaks, would be a lot easier.
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Post by Per on Dec 14, 2021 7:07:29 GMT
Annie in that panel: "You know, we could just say we were convinced Loup was hiding in boxbot and that there was no time to waste." |
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Post by speedwell on Dec 14, 2021 18:08:58 GMT
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 15, 2021 15:48:20 GMT
You mean, who "loves" her. And threatens to shred her flesh and grind her bones if she'll ever doubt it. |
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Post by speedwell on Dec 15, 2021 19:22:25 GMT
You mean, who "loves" her. And threatens to shred her flesh and grind her bones if she'll ever doubt it. Heh, no. Ysengrin really does love her, and Coyote loves her as much as and in the way that he loves anything. Therefore Loup also loves her. The fact that his love is abusive and obnoxious does not make it not love. But I get your point. |
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 15, 2021 23:21:34 GMT
You mean, who "loves" her. And threatens to shred her flesh and grind her bones if she'll ever doubt it. Heh, no. Ysengrin really does love her, and Coyote loves her as much as and in the way that he loves anything. Therefore Loup also loves her. The fact that his love is abusive and obnoxious does not make it not love. But I get your point. I guess we disagree on that point. Ysengrin might truly love Annie, but Loup himself has told her that he is neither Coyote nor Ysengrin. And Coyote doesn't love anyone besides himself anyway. In my opinion, we haven't seen anything resembling love coming from Loup. Only an unhealthy possessiveness and obsession with Annie.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 16, 2021 1:06:43 GMT
Heh, no. Ysengrin really does love her, and Coyote loves her as much as and in the way that he loves anything. Therefore Loup also loves her. The fact that his love is abusive and obnoxious does not make it not love. But I get your point. I guess we disagree on that point. Ysengrin might truly love Annie, but Loup himself has told her that he is neither Coyote nor Ysengrin. And Coyote doesn't love anyone besides himself anyway. In my opinion, we haven't seen anything resembling love coming from Loup. Only an unhealthy possessiveness and obsession with Annie.
This seems like the start of a good "can love be bad/one sided/toxic/unrequited, or do those qualities automatically make it not real love" discussion, which I enjoy. IMO, Obsession and possessiveness are unfortunately very much part of love, just parts you have to control, moderate and not allow to dictate your behavior or the relationship will become unhealthy quick. But what is love? It's very complicated and personal question, and the answer will shift depending on who you ask, and what type of love/relationship is being questioned. I don't think anyone is gonna say Loup has a healthy love for Annie, but I think Loup honestly feels/believes that he loves Annie. The crazy things people do because of obsessive or possessive love are well documented, and while I don't support that kind of behavior, I have a hard time dismissing it as "not real". |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 16, 2021 2:33:39 GMT
Heh, no. Ysengrin really does love her, and Coyote loves her as much as and in the way that he loves anything. Therefore Loup also loves her. The fact that his love is abusive and obnoxious does not make it not love. But I get your point. I guess we disagree on that point. Ysengrin might truly love Annie, but Loup himself has told her that he is neither Coyote nor Ysengrin. And Coyote doesn't love anyone besides himself anyway. In my opinion, we haven't seen anything resembling love coming from Loup. Only an unhealthy possessiveness and obsession with Annie.
Actually, he said he loved her, and I believe it. If nothing else, he hasn't really tried to kill her, despite her talking back to him and such. The issue isn't lack of love, it's immaturity - he doesn't know anything about love or anything else, being only what, a month old now? A few?
Definitely not healthy love, but I could believe Loup has strong feelings for Annie that he doesn't know what to do with. Probably love, just because that's what he inherited, but he did not himself fall in love with her - it's part of his baseline! No wonder he's confused!
Strong emotions he doesn't understand and lots of power - I'm sure this will turn out well.
Maybe he has everything available to him from both Coyote and Ysengrin, in potential (except for what Coyote specifically hid) but just doesn't understand much? So for emotions, he got love for Annie from both sides, and a great deal of anger and such from Ysengrin, but Coyote isn't so easy to internalize. At least that's how he started out, and I don't think he's going to live long enough to really mature as an individual.
It probably would have been better for all concerned if Aata and the redshirts had left him alone to calm down and meditate and figure things out for a few years, rather than coming into his home and trying to steal his stuff. He seemed to be on a better path when they first got there.
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