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Post by drmemory on Aug 8, 2021 1:09:28 GMT
I apologize in advance if I say things that someone else has already said. I lost interest and heart during the whole Tony plotline, and still don't really care too much for anything relating to Paz. However, the current developments are much more interesting to me! So I've been pondering Aata. Or, Evil Buddha (EB) as I like to think of him.
It's clear that he's been a major force behind the scenes for all of this (meaning, the entire run of the story). There was some foreshadowing:
- Him showing up randomly for things.
- Him always being there and visibly in charge when the shadow men did anything interesting, such as the power plant stuff and the earlier pursuit of Jack.
- Him stealing the tooth from Annie and not allowing her to have it back until he and his drones were about to enter the forest to treat with Loup. Rude.
- Him initiating the effort to determine Annie's mental state and being the one that Jones reports to. Have we ever seen Jones report to anyone else?
I suggest that a few more things may also be laid at his feet. He seems very much into humans getting all the power. So...
- Why does "the court" find robots getting closer to humans distasteful? Aata the human supremacist, who is either in charge of it all or at least on the board of directors.
- Coyote specifically stated that Aata was at least partially behind the trap set for Reynard, and that it was an earlier attempt to steal Coyote's powers. So I wonder how much else of what's gone on is part of this long-term effort?
- The machine that looks into the unknown world... how did they know how to make such a thing? Who do we know that can manifest in the ether that might know how to go about it? Aata, of course. EB is behind Omega, but it remains to see why or in what measure.
I'm sure I've missed things, but he's been a sort of low-interest background character for a long time and I've always worried about him a bit. He reminds me of Goebbels. I am NOT saying I think he's a Nazi, but I am certainly saying he's a schemer and manipulator who will stop at nothing to get his way. Trick a peaceful fox into murdering a human so he can be trapped and his power extracted? Sure! Try to steal all of Coyote's power, in his very forest? Let's do that! etc... I'm not seeing a lot of ethics here, nor compassion.
Remaining questions:
- Is he the (or a) big bad or is there someone worse behind him? Or maybe a committee? If he is the chair of the committee, the rest even matter?
- What is his endgame with Coyote's power? Using it to benefit all of humankind seems far more altruistic that I would expect from him, based on what we've been shown.
- How old is he? I suspect he's been around since the Court started somehow, though I can't really justify it yet. Just a feeling.
- Is he human? Or at least once-human? Could he be a creation of Diego? Coyote's "Beautiful failure" non-explanation really bugs me. Perhaps he will "sproing" when Loup spears him with wood, if he doesn't just block it with his powers.
We already know that the shadow men organization is separate from the part of the Court that runs a school, but should EB perhaps belong in the Creatures section of the Cast page?
I'm not going to touch the speculation on current and upcoming events here - I'm more interested in EB's provenance, long-term history, and plans. Plus, I think that stuff is well-covered by others.
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Post by speedwell on Aug 8, 2021 11:03:28 GMT
I'll be happy to read the foregoing as soon as you are able to catch up to all the comic's content
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 8, 2021 18:23:08 GMT
I agree, the previous chapter had been a drag (at least reading it in the slow form of a current webcomic), but the small revelations about Aata made it so much more interesting again. I do hope he's here to stay. Have we ever seen Jones report to anyone else? Yes, we saw her report to the headmaster giving her recommendation (which was not followed) about who should become the Court's new medium. Who knows whether Aata was one of the persons (or even the only person!) the headmaster referred to when he said "the Court has chosen Mr. Smith". Oh, there are lots of unethical possibilities which can still be interpreted as benefitting all of humankind. I tend to agree with the theory that assumes Aata wants to wipe out or conquer the Etheric realm, believing he would free humanity from its shackles and not being aware that it is needed to keep the world alive. Similar to people who eradicate complete populations of large predators to protect farmer's livestock, ignoring that the predators are a vital part of a functioning ecosystem.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 9, 2021 0:05:46 GMT
I'll be happy to read the foregoing as soon as you are able to catch up to all the comic's content Oh. I read each new comic as it came out, did I give the wrong idea there? I just didn't care for it enough to participate in the forums. I kept reading in hopes that we'd get back to the many unanswered questions and that the plot would again move forward, and indeed that has happened.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 9, 2021 0:14:32 GMT
I agree, the previous chapter had been a drag (at least reading it in the slow form of a current webcomic), but the small revelations about Aata made it so much more interesting again. I do hope he's here to stay. Have we ever seen Jones report to anyone else? Yes, we saw her report to the headmaster giving her recommendation (which was not followed) about who should become the Court's new medium. Who knows whether Aata was one of the persons (or even the only person!) the headmaster referred to when he said "the Court has chosen Mr. Smith". Oh, there are lots of unethical possibilities which can still be interpreted as benefitting all of humankind. I tend to agree with the theory that assumes Aata wants to wipe out or conquer the Etheric realm, believing he would free humanity from its shackles and not being aware that it is needed to keep the world alive. Similar to people who eradicate complete populations of large predators to protect farmer's livestock, ignoring that the predators are a vital part of a functioning ecosystem. I'm sort of hoping that we're about to see Aata bite the dust, personally. But probably not - he's a named character that Tom has put a bit into developing, so we'll probably just lose some cannon fodder at most (meaning nameless shadow men, if not obvious). I just hope the people we actually care about aren't hurt too much.
As for that theory... maybe? I can see a number of ways this could be heading, and a number of ways he may want it to head. For example, maybe he wants Coyote's power to fully become a god himself. I'm still parsing the revelation that he can see into the ether and most likely has been able to for some time - does this mean he's aware of the ROTD? The psychopomps? Can he spy on Renard and Annie talking in "familiar mode"? I dunno, I just feel like there could me a lot of possible very negative ways this could go.
Also, if it isn't Omega that is allowing him to do the things he can do, then that raises more questions. Like, does he directly control Omega? As in, is he attached to it somehow? I don't want to turn this into a redundant wildspec thread though - really mostly concerned about what Aata is, how long he's been that way, and what his intentions are. Everything else related seems well covered elsewhere.
Are we about to see a battle in the Ether? If Loup were more Coyote and less Ysengrin, I'd assume so, but so far we're only seeing his old tree powers.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 10, 2021 3:31:56 GMT
So. How long has Aata been around, manipulating things behind the scenes?
A couple of possibilities:
He's been around since the court was founded, or before. Maybe the failed experiment thing was an early attempt by Coyote to give power to someone.
He's proof of Diego's genius - a human mecha, created long before Kat arrived on the scene. I think not, because of the lack of foreshadowing in the plot and because he wasn't there when Diego was on his deathbed, but you never know.
He's an ex-animal or ex-creature from the forest.
He's an evil thing, like the ones that tricked Tony.
He's literally a shadow man, a more advanced attempt by Coyote to try and make a human or at least something much closer.
I keep coming back to "power from Coyote" because we haven't seen any other god-like beings sharing power like he has, and because of the "failed experiment" talk.
There are a couple of entities around that might know, or at least know how long he's been on the scene. Jones should know whether he was there and looking the same when she arrived in the court. I would think that there should be records of how long he's been around, and they should be accessible to the headmaster and perhaps others. Coyote certainly knows. I bet the psychopomps know, if they care to. Not to mention the ROTD guys, and the Norns, etc. Heck, the older robots that Kat revived probably know! So this can be figured out if he doesn't just tell us in the course of the current plotline.
Another big question is, is he unique? Consider the question of how the court finds things in the outer world. They found Zimmy, and knew enough about her and Gamma and their relationship to know what they needed to say to get Zimmy to come to the court. I believe there have been hints that other unusual entities have been invited as well over the years but can't remember where I read that at the moment, sorry. Note that they have a whole house! Chester... And of course, there is the whole Tony thing - he had the sense that the court knew where he was all along and just pulled him in when they thought he was done having his "fun". Again, they knew so much about his motivations and state that they knew just what to say to get him back. We haven't seen him talk to himself out loud and he isn't a big sharer, so how could they learn all of this if they weren't watching?
So how do they have such exquisite intel gathering in places where they aren't? Well we only know of one entity that is part of the court and can reach into the ether, from where he could spy, and that is Aata. Naturally, he may not be the only one - if nothing else there are ex-fairies about - but I have to think that they wouldn't be that easy to keep on task for a program of concentrated surveillance over time. In the case of Tony, they would have had to be able to look into other planes to see what all he went through!
So I am arguing that this is either all Aata or that he controls whoever or whatever it is that does the surveillance and monitoring. Or Omega, of course, but that seems like a newer development, so even if it's being used for that purpose and operated by shadow men, it wouldn't explain the longer term stuff. Omega is also thought to be a tool, a machine, so it probably requires an operator. Who likely works for Aata - who would the spies work for but the spymaster?
Anyway, it's all speculation, but I did include what evidence I've noticed. All circumstantial so far...
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 10, 2021 17:56:56 GMT
You know, if we hadn't seen his final record I would now speculate he is that Steadman fellow.
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 11, 2021 13:56:24 GMT
I apologize in advance if I say things that someone else has already said. I lost interest and heart during the whole Tony plotline, and still don't really care too much for anything relating to Paz. However, the current developments are much more interesting to me! So I've been pondering Aata. Or, Evil Buddha (EB) as I like to think of him.
It's clear that he's been a major force behind the scenes for all of this (meaning, the entire run of the story). There was some foreshadowing: - Him showing up randomly for things.
- Him always being there and visibly in charge when the shadow men did anything interesting, such as the power plant stuff and the earlier pursuit of Jack.
- Him stealing the tooth from Annie and not allowing her to have it back until he and his drones were about to enter the forest to treat with Loup. Rude.
- Him initiating the effort to determine Annie's mental state and being the one that Jones reports to. Have we ever seen Jones report to anyone else?
I suggest that a few more things may also be laid at his feet. He seems very much into humans getting all the power. So... ... - Is he the (or a) big bad or is there someone worse behind him? Or maybe a committee?
This implies he is all-important there somehow. But the Court seems to not have one entrenched "shadow government" but rather be mostly ungoverned - barely coordinated at all. It's the left leg doesn't know where the right one tries to walk, not "oops, we have to talk with someone". Which suggests Aata controls but one of the Court's many cabals, circles and clubs, even if a fairly important one.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 11, 2021 17:38:04 GMT
By The Way, I joke about the spoon but I think it's more probable than not that it's a representation of a ajna-chakra-center/pineal-gland-stimulating/third-eye-opening/whatever which would make Aata either a human who practiced that as a pathway to etheric what-have-you or an etheric version of a previously-existing human who did such.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Aug 11, 2021 19:29:29 GMT
I apologize in advance if I say things that someone else has already said. <snip>
I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. I just posted some stuff about him after the most recent page on that thread. I don't like double-posting, but if we are consolidating all Aata conjecture here, this is what I have: We just don't have enough info at this point to know who/what Aata really is. Seeing him reach into the Ether to speak with Annie and Coyote made me wonder if he was a Foley student who was a previous animal (hmm, what animal is short and round?). However, he seems to be on a much higher power level. Coyote knew him and called him "failed cousin" and a "beautiful failure", not something I think he would say to any random former animal. And now he seems to be able to transmute stuff into... flowers? We can see Loup's root -tentacle-spear thingies disintegrating into flowers. That is so freakin' weird and so incredibly specific. It reminds me of the times Annie visited Foley classes and each student had one etheric trait unique to them that they wanted to show off. But those only manifested in the ether, not the real world. Even when Ayilu (Red's friend) used her power on Jeanne, it was all in the Ether and didn't effect the real world. In reality, everyone was just standing or kneeling on the ground despite what they saw. Aata's use of power is real.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 11, 2021 19:49:55 GMT
By The Way, I joke about the spoon but I think it's more probable than not that it's a representation of a ajna-chakra-center/pineal-gland-stimulating/third-eye-opening/whatever which would make Aata either a human who practiced that as a pathway to etheric what-have-you or an etheric version of a previously-existing human who did such. He's obviously a Cardassian.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 12, 2021 2:19:26 GMT
You know, if we hadn't seen his final record I would now speculate he is that Steadman fellow. Perhaps not Steadman, but I also suspect he's someone we've seen before. Maybe a creation of Diego, maybe someone in the background, maybe a forest dweller? If you don't assume he's always looked the same it opens up a lot of possibilities!
We haven't actually seen that much of what really happened in those days - just the recording from Diego's little gift, I think? Unless there was a flashback in a Coyote or Ysengrin conversation that I'm not remembering. If you go all the way back to the founding of the forest, all I can remember is the reconstruction supplied by Doctor Disaster and what the wisp showed Annie (the very definition of an unreliable narrator).
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Post by drmemory on Aug 12, 2021 2:30:09 GMT
I apologize in advance if I say things that someone else has already said. <snip>
I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. I just posted some stuff about him after the most recent page on that thread. I don't like double-posting, but if we are consolidating all Aata conjecture here, this is what I have: We just don't have enough info at this point to know who/what Aata really is. Seeing him reach into the Ether to speak with Annie and Coyote made me wonder if he was a Foley student who was a previous animal (hmm, what animal is short and round?). However, he seems to be on a much higher power level. Coyote knew him and called him "failed cousin" and a "beautiful failure", not something I think he would say to any random former animal. And now he seems to be able to transmute stuff into... flowers? We can see Loup's root -tentacle-spear thingies disintegrating into flowers. That is so freakin' weird and so incredibly specific. It reminds me of the times Annie visited Foley classes and each student had one etheric trait unique to them that they wanted to show off. But those only manifested in the ether, not the real world. Even when Ayilu (Red's friend) used her power on Jeanne, it was all in the Ether and didn't effect the real world. In reality, everyone was just standing or kneeling on the ground despite what they saw. Aata's use of power is real. I don't know that this any sort of official consolidation thread, I have no power here! I just started it because I didn't see one, and wanted to post my theories without derailing other threads.
Hedgehog maybe? I was thinking it may be either an ex-animal or a human that Coyote gave power to early on, as an experiment. A Coyote experiment, not any sort of science experiment with a methodology or anything behind it.
That might explain the failed experiment comments - whatever he was trying to do didn't work out as he hoped. Unless it did, and what is happening now is what he planned all those years ago. Or centuries... I tend to learn towards some kind of human because of Aata's comments about benefiting all humans, whether he really means that or not.
Um, I did a little searching for small round animals and got totally distracted for longer than I want to admit when I found this. Sorry if it happens to you! So... Kawaii... Round animals!!!
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 12, 2021 13:40:49 GMT
You know, if we hadn't seen his final record I would now speculate he is that Steadman fellow. Perhaps not Steadman, but I also suspect he's someone we've seen before. Maybe a creation of Diego, maybe someone in the background, maybe a forest dweller? If you don't assume he's always looked the same it opens up a lot of possibilities!
We haven't actually seen that much of what really happened in those days - just the recording from Diego's little gift, I think? Unless there was a flashback in a Coyote or Ysengrin conversation that I'm not remembering. If you go all the way back to the founding of the forest, all I can remember is the reconstruction supplied by Doctor Disaster and what the wisp showed Annie (the very definition of an unreliable narrator).
Jeanne's flashback in "The Coward Heart" showed this time as well, even if partly abstract.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 12, 2021 15:22:28 GMT
Perhaps not Steadman, but I also suspect he's someone we've seen before. Maybe a creation of Diego, maybe someone in the background, maybe a forest dweller? If you don't assume he's always looked the same it opens up a lot of possibilities!
We haven't actually seen that much of what really happened in those days - just the recording from Diego's little gift, I think? Unless there was a flashback in a Coyote or Ysengrin conversation that I'm not remembering. If you go all the way back to the founding of the forest, all I can remember is the reconstruction supplied by Doctor Disaster and what the wisp showed Annie (the very definition of an unreliable narrator).
Jeanne's flashback in "The Coward Heart" showed this time as well, even if partly abstract. Yes, but it wasn't a real flashback showing the real people that were around at the time. Just illusions based on a book, with Jeanne made to feel it was normal. Too bad Kat didn't go back further and look around while she had the use of time powers and a bird.
Maybe that's why Coyote took out the bird - we know she would have used it to poke around and look at other things, even if he didn't (based on what she did in the RotD when she had access to the Final Records book). I've always wondered why he did that - almost seems like he didn't want her to see anything more once Annie was saved! Well that and/or making sure she learned about Jean.
Coyote is quite the long-term planner. Schemer?
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Post by drmemory on Aug 13, 2021 5:23:09 GMT
I have been curious about the sequence of events, and also any previous Aata sightings. I can remember a few but I bet not all! Anyway, this led me to wonder about whether the events wherein Surma fell in love with Tony happened before or after when Renard/Reynardine killed that man to try and show his love for Surma. The answer is, the Aata-inspired plot that led to a death due to body snatching was well after! After Surma and Tony had fallen and love, and after Antimony was born. !!! I was a bit surprised by this, especially that last part as it means that Renard had fallen in love with a married woman with a child. But maybe I'm wrong. Here is my evidence: When Reynardine breaks through the dorm roof, leading to Antimony meeting him, she is in Year 7.
Year 7 students are 11-12 years old.
After Jimmy Jim Jims saves Annie from Renard, he states that Renard has been captive for over 5 years. That's not even close to 11-12 and means that the events we learn of later happened when she was born and most likely 5-6 years old. Which actually matches what Surma looks like at the time - she doesn't look like a student! Still a young adult, but more mature than she appeared a few years previously.
I find this puzzling. I thought Surma pretty much stayed in the hospital after Annie was born. Not only is she not in the hospital for the events leading up to the death of Daniel Shiff, she doesn't really seem to be attached yet.
If we were talking about a lesser creator, I'd suspect that Tom screwed up the timeline, but Tom is the very master of juggling plot threads and continuity!
So how do we reconcile Annie meeting Renard 5-6 years after he was confined with her being 11-12 years old at the time? Something is off here. In that last thing I linked, this, we see Anja WITH her eye magic symbol, Eglamore, Donald, and Sivo just before or during the fight with Reynardine/Daniel Schiff. If those guys were still in school, and the battle lingered on for several years, one would think it would have come up at some point, and I'm not sure I believe they would have all been so care-free in the other flashbacks. This really seems like post-graduation stuff.
Another thing - why would Surma agree to trick Renard if she wasn't already sucked into the court's intrigues by Tony? This again seems to point to the Renard/Sivo/Dragon Slayer events happening later on. Heck, James wasn't even the Dragon Slayer in school - we were shown when he was first introduced to the concept.
So like, what the heck am I missing? Aata time travel? Are we seeing more than one timeline here somehow? Does Annie age at an accelerated rate (or at least, did she for her first few years)?
I'm confused. When I started typing this I thought I understood but it's become clear to me that I do not.
Oh, my original concern was when Aata set these events up and what he knew beforehand, but the order of events have totally swamped that concern. Still... for some reason he tasked Surma to make Renard to fall in love with her, with the expectation that this would result in Renard asking Coyote for part of his power, Coyote forking it over, then Renard doing something that would provide an excuse to confine him in the court. If this logic isn't flawed (and it could well be), then Aata is either way smarter or more powerful than I've been thinking.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 13, 2021 5:26:19 GMT
Addendum - I am aware Renard didn't kill Daniel Schiff to impress Surma with his killing skills but rather meant to take a human body to remove the species impediment to mating, and that he really was hoping Daniel wouldn't die from it. Just realized the way I said it above might be misinterpreted. At this point, he had been led to believe she loved him as he loved her. Pretty tragic! Now what Aata knew would happen, or thought would happen, or even saw happening in the future with his flower power - that we don't know at this point.
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Post by jda on Aug 13, 2021 6:16:14 GMT
Now what Aata [...] with his flower power That is what came to mind
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 13, 2021 11:39:22 GMT
Jeanne's flashback in "The Coward Heart" showed this time as well, even if partly abstract. Yes, but it wasn't a real flashback showing the real people that were around at the time. Just illusions based on a book, with Jeanne made to feel it was normal. I believe you’re thinking of the wrong chapter. I did not refer to Ayilu‘s illusory Court, but to Jeanne‘s memories , which she showed to Annie and Parley after trapping them with Annie’s blinker stone.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 13, 2021 11:47:30 GMT
I have been curious about the sequence of events, and also any previous Aata sightings. I can remember a few but I bet not all! Anyway, this led me to wonder about whether the events wherein Surma fell in love with Tony happened before or after when Renard/Reynardine killed that man to try and show his love for Surma. The answer is, the Aata-inspired plot that led to a death due to body snatching was well after! After Surma and Tony had fallen and love, and after Antimony was born. !!! I was a bit surprised by this, especially that last part as it means that Renard had fallen in love with a married woman with a child. But maybe I'm wrong. Here is my evidence: When Reynardine breaks through the dorm roof, leading to Antimony meeting him, she is in Year 7.
Year 7 students are 11-12 years old.
After Jimmy Jim Jims saves Annie from Renard, he states that Renard has been captive for over 5 years. That's not even close to 11-12 and means that the events we learn of later happened when she was born and most likely 5-6 years old. Which actually matches what Surma looks like at the time - she doesn't look like a student! Still a young adult, but more mature than she appeared a few years previously.
I find this puzzling. I thought Surma pretty much stayed in the hospital after Annie was born. Not only is she not in the hospital for the events leading up to the death of Daniel Shiff, she doesn't really seem to be attached yet.
If we were talking about a lesser creator, I'd suspect that Tom screwed up the timeline, but Tom is the very master of juggling plot threads and continuity!
So how do we reconcile Annie meeting Renard 5-6 years after he was confined with her being 11-12 years old at the time? Something is off here. In that last thing I linked, this, we see Anja WITH her eye magic symbol, Eglamore, Donald, and Sivo just before or during the fight with Reynardine/Daniel Schiff. If those guys were still in school, and the battle lingered on for several years, one would think it would have come up at some point, and I'm not sure I believe they would have all been so care-free in the other flashbacks. This really seems like post-graduation stuff.
Another thing - why would Surma agree to trick Renard if she wasn't already sucked into the court's intrigues by Tony? This again seems to point to the Renard/Sivo/Dragon Slayer events happening later on. Heck, James wasn't even the Dragon Slayer in school - we were shown when he was first introduced to the concept.
So like, what the heck am I missing? Aata time travel? Are we seeing more than one timeline here somehow? Does Annie age at an accelerated rate (or at least, did she for her first few years)?
I'm confused. When I started typing this I thought I understood but it's become clear to me that I do not.
Oh, my original concern was when Aata set these events up and what he knew beforehand, but the order of events have totally swamped that concern. Still... for some reason he tasked Surma to make Renard to fall in love with her, with the expectation that this would result in Renard asking Coyote for part of his power, Coyote forking it over, then Renard doing something that would provide an excuse to confine him in the court. If this logic isn't flawed (and it could well be), then Aata is either way smarter or more powerful than I've been thinking.
I think you simply misinterpreted Eglamore‘s statement. The „it’s been five years“ refers to how long Renard had been in Sivo‘s body. He had been captured far longer, but at one point, likely during an escape attempt, fought and defeated Sivo and took his body, but was recaptured. Five years later, he escaped again and met Annie. Surma and Tony, meanwhile, left the Court before Annie was born and cut off all contact. Surma was bedridden since Annie‘s birth. She definitely never went back there.
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Post by ohthatone on Aug 13, 2021 15:07:11 GMT
Aata must have been a secret coyote kept from ysengrin and rey. Otherwise it would be very strange that neither of them warned annie about him earlier.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 13, 2021 15:37:57 GMT
Yes, but it wasn't a real flashback showing the real people that were around at the time. Just illusions based on a book, with Jeanne made to feel it was normal. I believe you’re thinking of the wrong chapter. I did not refer to Ayilu‘s illusory Court, but to Jeanne‘s memories , which she showed to Annie and Parley after trapping them with Annie’s blinker stone. You are correct, I was thinking of the Ayilu version. That is indeed another (most likely) real flashback.
So we see... Diego being creepy, General Ysengrin being angry, Coyote watching, and um the Gunner with a crow over his shoulder? Not sure about that last one exactly. It's the guy who later shot the arrow. Also an anonymous-looking faceless court agent. Out of those, the only potential "future Aata" I see is the crow. He looks shadowy! So does the agent, I suppose...
Then there is a page full of symbolism, which is sure to delight those into such things.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 13, 2021 15:54:59 GMT
blah blah blah (I can do that to myself, right?) I think you simply misinterpreted Eglamore‘s statement. The „it’s been five years“ refers to how long Renard had been in Sivo‘s body. He had been captured far longer, but at one point, likely during an escape attempt, fought and defeated Sivo and took his body, but was recaptured. Five years later, he escaped again and met Annie. Surma and Tony, meanwhile, left the Court before Annie was born and cut off all contact. Surma was bedridden since Annie‘s birth. She definitely never went back there. Possibly? Lot of assumptions there. Anja had the anti-body-hopping magic back at the original confrontation. But you're suggesting he was confined as Daniel, attempted to escape, defeated Sivo and took his body. Or maybe in some intermediate form - we haven't been shown anything from that time period that I know of. Well if we assume Tom has made no timeline errors, it's possible. We haven't seen any evidence one way or another.
So if that's the case, then Annie would have been around 5-7 and living in the hospital with Surma and Tony would have been a surgeon in the same hospital at the time Sivo was taken. We've seen her around that time, actually, but they were totally out of contact with the court so we have been given no information about contemporaneous events there.
Well, as you seem full of explanations for my clever theories, what about the Eye of Anja? Those things are all over the room where Reynard/Sivo were confined, yet he was able to jump out of his body to try and take Annie. Or pretend to, given that we know he's very clever, a planner and schemer, and knew her toy was just a stuffed wolf. He's stuck to his story all this time so maybe not. Anyway, do the Eyes and her spell work or not? If they do, then how did he do that?
I'm pretty sure he couldn't take over James because he has one tattooed on his skin, and it seems likely that this would make it a lot more effective, due to proximity and the physical contact. There may even be a blood magic thing involved with a tattoo - such things are reputed to make spells more powerful and effective.
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 13, 2021 16:34:21 GMT
At this point my top theory about Aata is that he's a human with an etheric talent, scouted and brought in by the Court as a child just as so many other characters were. He probably came in contact with a blinker stone and learned how to do several things without the stone, including project his consciousness into the Ether. I'm not saying he's a flower elemental or anything, but that his power manifests with flower imagery, as Annie's manifests with fire imagery. I don't know that it literally conjures flowers – I don't know that he literally turned Loup's roots into flowers. I think he disrupted the ethereal energy creating the roots, just as Annie is disrupting them by wading into them on today's page (no, I don't think she's setting them on fire), and I think he's using his power to heal Shell. So that may actually be his real etheric talent, the power to heal others. The fact that there's flower imagery when it manifests may be a sign of his background or culture of origin or some meditative technique he uses to access his powers. As for why he seems to find his ability distasteful: he clearly has a belief that the Ether and its power should be put to work for humanity, all of humanity. He may believe that certain people should be in charge of that power (he may think that not all humans can be trusted with that kind of power), or he may believe that everyone should have access to it. But he clearly believes that the Ether should be used for the benefit of humanity, that it should serve humanity rather than ruling humanity as it does (that inconvenient "death" thing, for example). How did he get this way? A vague possible backstory comes to mind: perhaps he was growing up and discovered his healing ability, but then while he was away someone he cared about was killed, and he arrived too late to save them. If only anyone could use the Ether to heal people, then they need not have died. But no, only he has that power, for ethereal reasons that no one understands. He's privileged, and he hates it, because it means that others can't save their loved ones – or even his own loved ones, when he's not around them. He finds his abilities distasteful because he wants to share them but can't. When he dies, his powers die with him. So why not spend his life trying to work toward a world where everyone can do what he can do? Anyway, this is total speculation. Maybe it's 100% wrong. But right now I'm not seeing anything that wouldn't be possible if Aata were just a human with an etheric talent.
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Post by TheClockworkCoyote on Aug 13, 2021 17:00:56 GMT
*sneaks back in from Lurker mode* Coyote's choice of words is expectedly ambiguous... "Failed cousin" as well as "beautiful failure". Aata "knows a few tricks ... however distasteful" he finds them, but at the same time "wallows in miserable schemes" while claiming he will "benefit all of man" through them. ....I'm on the fence of thinking perhaps Aata may have once been another sort of Trickster....just one far less successful than Coyote has proven to be in the Gunnerkrigg universe. Even gods can change to some degree, see "Coyote" on the Extra Comics page for Coyote transforming himself into the setting's Coyote. ...and even gods can die, see, well, Coyote at present. Now, whether they necessarily stay dead is questionable, of course, and doubly so for Trickster types. Tricksters do disrupt the status quo, they do flout the rules to get their way (or to attempt to at least, it just as often backfires)... But they also sometimes appear in myths as helpful to humanity as a whole. Ex. Prometheus stealing fire from the gods. So for a creature Coyote describes as "cousin" - failed or not - who seems to be trying to twist the rules of the world by pulling strings (mostly) behind the scenes and claiming it's for the good of mankind....
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Post by drmemory on Aug 14, 2021 0:36:48 GMT
However he started out, Aata certainly seems like a creature of the ether now. At least in part? I'm more worried about the part that is unscrupulous and a schemer, and how he will try to use or steal Annie's power. I'd be surprised if he cares that stealing the power of a fire elemental kills the fire elemental (because it IS the fire elemental). And I certainly like Annie more than him! I agree with the theory that he started out as something else, just not sure if that was as a human or as something else. How else to explain the "experiment" comments? On the other paw, starting as someone with a "predilection for the aetheric sciences" is also possible. In which case, I guess the experiment tried to go the other direction.
It's all speculation until Tom tells us.
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Post by maxptc on Aug 14, 2021 2:31:40 GMT
I choose to belive Atta is a bureaucrat with magical flower grandparents on his mothers side he never liked visiting. They may be humans or elves or fairies or whatever, I have no idea, but I do know the holidays were awkward.
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Post by davidm on Aug 14, 2021 16:23:26 GMT
"Evil Buddha (EB) as I like to think of him." IMO your prejudice that sees him that way. It could be true but so far everything he has done might be justified and self defense, from what we have seen of forest.
Loup strongly suggested he was going to kill everyone not named Annie then lunged into action seeming to carry out suggestion before court zapped Loup. Loup previously launched an attack on court causing lots of destruction and potentially killing quite a few people when he was born. Coyote intentionally created Loup to do exactly what Loup did.
Science today tries to cure disease, delay or cure old age, make life easier, does that mean scientists are "evil scientists"? Science also of course has all sorts of applications in causing death and destruction and destroying forests.
" far more altruistic that I would expect from him, based on what we've been shown." What have we seen so far? The things you point to so far could all be considered very reasonable considering forests regular threats and actions of mass death and destruction and ethnic cleansing of elves. If Loup treats his own people who haven't wronged him, the elves "kick you all out, so you will starve if court does not save you", and is actively attacking court with his tree magic and forest creatures, the rest of court is reasonable to fear that loup might also destroy/ethnic cleanse the humans next. By todays real life standards you would be hard pressed to find a real life despot who has acted as nasty as Loup.... which was planned by coyote.
Forest smuggled in seeds, Court is much destroyed and still under constant attack. Of course court is nervous about other coyote gifts and plans, and risks of making known terrorist Loup more powerful. Would you eagerly give a group that claims responsibility for 9-11 WTC attack some weapons grade uranium? (Coyotes full power can easily put a new crater on moon with a whim, likely much more power than thermo nuclear bombs, and Loup did much bigger than 9-11 attack for terrorist type reasons)
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Post by davidm on Aug 14, 2021 16:41:33 GMT
We so far have been seeing all sorts of attacks and invasions by forest on court, similar happened in Surma's time. We haven't seen same of court robots or army invading forest and slaughtering or threatening elves or other intelligent beings. The one case of claimed court invasion attack on forest was a false flag trick by forest... beginning of story when Forest requests meeting with court.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 15, 2021 16:35:45 GMT
I think you simply misinterpreted Eglamore‘s statement. The „it’s been five years“ refers to how long Renard had been in Sivo‘s body. He had been captured far longer, but at one point, likely during an escape attempt, fought and defeated Sivo and took his body, but was recaptured. Five years later, he escaped again and met Annie. Surma and Tony, meanwhile, left the Court before Annie was born and cut off all contact. Surma was bedridden since Annie‘s birth. She definitely never went back there. Possibly? Lot of assumptions there. Anja had the anti-body-hopping magic back at the original confrontation. But you're suggesting he was confined as Daniel, attempted to escape, defeated Sivo and took his body. Or maybe in some intermediate form - we haven't been shown anything from that time period that I know of. Well if we assume Tom has made no timeline errors, it's possible. We haven't seen any evidence one way or another.
So if that's the case, then Annie would have been around 5-7 and living in the hospital with Surma and Tony would have been a surgeon in the same hospital at the time Sivo was taken. We've seen her around that time, actually, but they were totally out of contact with the court so we have been given no information about contemporaneous events there.
Well, as you seem full of explanations for my clever theories, what about the Eye of Anja? Those things are all over the room where Reynard/Sivo were confined, yet he was able to jump out of his body to try and take Annie. Or pretend to, given that we know he's very clever, a planner and schemer, and knew her toy was just a stuffed wolf. He's stuck to his story all this time so maybe not. Anyway, do the Eyes and her spell work or not? If they do, then how did he do that?
I'm pretty sure he couldn't take over James because he has one tattooed on his skin, and it seems likely that this would make it a lot more effective, due to proximity and the physical contact. There may even be a blood magic thing involved with a tattoo - such things are reputed to make spells more powerful and effective.
Of course I am making assumptions, but my theory works without additional time travel or a (very unlikely) huge goof on the author's part. Of course there's a lot about back then we still do not know. From "Why was this giant pole apparently driven through possessed Sivo's knee?" over "Why and how were Sivo's wings destroyed?" to "Why did Zimmy see a distorted version of him in Birmingham?".
About the Eye painted everywhere... I don't have a clever theory for that. If you are satisfied with a wildspec, though, here's mine: Renard had destroyed the holding cell he had been in before during his attempt to escape. This was a new one and not yet fully prepared to keep Renard in. The painted-on Eyes were markers where Anja was supposed to apply the actual binding magic, but she had not yet had the possibility to do it before Annie arrived at the holding cell.
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