V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 21, 2021 7:02:18 GMT
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Post by flowsthead on May 21, 2021 7:10:02 GMT
It's very sweet. Maybe a little melodramatic and self-serving, but sweet nonetheless. It's a statement you can only make when you don't have the other person's input, which means it kind of only works in a situation with Tony where his input is impossible.
I just really enjoy Annie.
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Post by machiavelli33 on May 21, 2021 7:35:27 GMT
Eloquently stated. This speech isn't exactly *off the cuff*, given the consideration inserted into it. Usually when she's speaking like this its in narration or internal thoughts - that she's speaking it out loud implies she took the time to crystallize her internal monologue into an external one. That or it IS off the cuff and Annie's brain works with more speed and clarity than it ever really had.
Either way, its different, which makes it not insignificant, in terms of statements of intent and expression.
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Post by silicondream on May 21, 2021 10:25:00 GMT
Ah. Now I'm a bit worried. I suggested a while ago that Tony avoided discussing the mind cage with Annie, because he didn't want her to realize how traumatizing her multiplicity is to him: Now, perhaps, we see just how well that strategy has worked. Even as she's come to accept that Tony's especially "quiet and awkward" around her, Annie's found a way to interpret that as his being uniquely blind to her presence, rather than uniquely oversensitive. She imagines herself standing invisibly by his side as a support against the crowd, not realizing that to him she is the crowd. The most difficult revelation is still to come. I don't say that out of sympathy for Tony; he chose his own emotional martyrdom. But that's not what Annie wants for him. She's always prized being useful over any other sort of validation, particularly with father figures. When she finally learns that her fussing over Tony might actually be counterproductive...well, that'll be tough. Though ultimately empowering, hopefully. She really needs a reason to move out.
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Post by TBeholder on May 21, 2021 11:11:17 GMT
Or, Jones gently squeezes water out of yet another stone.
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Post by ohthatone on May 21, 2021 12:19:59 GMT
Jones: you could say this to him.
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Post by phantaskippy on May 21, 2021 12:33:05 GMT
I need some cherry blossoms for that last panel vibe.
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Post by fia on May 21, 2021 13:22:58 GMT
People gonna people. But also, I think Annie has been preoccupied about her dad being alone and misunderstood for a long time. She probably made a commitment to stand by him a long time ago. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1015
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Post by maxptc on May 21, 2021 13:31:42 GMT
Or, Jones gently squeezes water out of yet another stone. I'm not trying to disparage Jones or the writing in this chapter, but Jones has had three lines with Annie, and none of them were particularly pressing. This whole chapter has felt like an info dump with Jones being used more as a bit of set dressing then someone subtlety prying information from reluctant sources. Feels like both Annie and Tony were looking for a reason to burst into to song about this topic. I'm cool with exposition, but this is starting to feel a little...overt I guess? I mean, I understand why Tom wants to clarify the Tony/Annie relationship, but I kinda liked it being a bit of a mystery. I dunno, maybe it's not spoon feeding, but if something doesn't happen to advance plot it's gonna leave that impression, at least to me.
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Post by ctso74 on May 21, 2021 14:12:21 GMT
I get Tom wanting to convey things the right way(especial with this topic), but if this was an award show, I think they'd be playing the "Wrap it Up" music to Annie.
Do you think Jones ever hums or sings? Maybe, the next comic starts with Jones' small micro-font speech bubble in the background, as Annie monologues. As the panels progress, Jones' bubble and font keep getting bigger. The final one being Annie silently looking to Jones, with most of the panel being Jones' speech bubble, "DA! Da da daaaaa! DA DA! Da Daaaaaa!"
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caber
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by caber on May 21, 2021 15:00:43 GMT
Or, Jones gently squeezes water out of yet another stone. I'm not trying to disparage Jones or the writing in this chapter, but Jones has had three lines with Annie, and none of them were particularly pressing. This whole chapter has felt like an info dump with Jones being used more as a bit of set dressing then someone subtlety prying information from reluctant sources. Feels like both Annie and Tony were looking for a reason to burst into to song about this topic. I'm cool with exposition, but this is starting to feel a little...overt I guess? I mean, I understand why Tom wants to clarify the Tony/Annie relationship, but I kinda liked it being a bit of a mystery. I dunno, maybe it's not spoon feeding, but if something doesn't happen to advance plot it's gonna leave that impression, at least to me. While it may seem a tad excessive, it also feels like a therapy session. As a kid I went through a lot of therapy for Asperger's syndrome (now called ASD in the DSM). Sometimes just having someone you know will listen without emotional bias (well, in theory) can cause you to just talk and talk about everything you've been wanting to say, but knew you couldn't around your friends/family because they wouldn't listen.
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Post by 0o0f on May 21, 2021 15:06:04 GMT
Ngl, this sounds more depressing than bittersweet now
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 21, 2021 15:09:01 GMT
I get Tom wanting to convey things the right way(especial with this topic), but if this was an award show, I think they'd be playing the "Wrap it Up" music to Annie. Do you think Jones ever hums or sings? Maybe, the next comic starts with Jones' small micro-font speech bubble in the background, as Annie monologues. As the panels progress, Jones' bubble and font keep getting bigger. The final one being Annie silently looking to Jones, with most of the panel being Jones' speech bubble, "DA! Da da daaaaa! DA DA! Da Daaaaaa!" Well, boredom is an emotion so that shouldn't be a concern. (I would expect an emotionless being to also be spared of curiosity, though.)
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 21, 2021 15:38:18 GMT
Ugh. I just can't anymore.
I just. Don't. Care. About. Tony.
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Post by maxptc on May 21, 2021 16:00:58 GMT
I'm not trying to disparage Jones or the writing in this chapter, but Jones has had three lines with Annie, and none of them were particularly pressing. This whole chapter has felt like an info dump with Jones being used more as a bit of set dressing then someone subtlety prying information from reluctant sources. Feels like both Annie and Tony were looking for a reason to burst into to song about this topic. I'm cool with exposition, but this is starting to feel a little...overt I guess? I mean, I understand why Tom wants to clarify the Tony/Annie relationship, but I kinda liked it being a bit of a mystery. I dunno, maybe it's not spoon feeding, but if something doesn't happen to advance plot it's gonna leave that impression, at least to me. While it may seem a tad excessive, it also feels like a therapy session. As a kid I went through a lot of therapy for Asperger's syndrome (now called ASD in the DSM). Sometimes just having someone you know will listen without emotional bias (well, in theory) can cause you to just talk and talk about everything you've been wanting to say, but knew you couldn't around your friends/family because they wouldn't listen. You have a good point, it does sound like a therapy session, which is probably why it feels like a monologue. Its not bad or anything, but definitely strengthens my personal opinion that a therapist character would just slow the story down in trade for more exposition.
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Post by rylfrazier on May 21, 2021 16:10:35 GMT
Ugh. I just can't anymore. I just. Don't. Care. About. Tony. Yup. Less "tedious awful men and how to just patiently love them unconditionally no matter who says 'this seems like a bad idea'" more "interesting girl / young woman has interesting adventures in an interesting world" would be great for me.
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Post by Gemminie on May 21, 2021 16:28:04 GMT
Following my usual rule of not reading other comments ... Annie is still monologuing! We see a view from a distance straight down the cross-street; it looks as if the buildings' window and door frames have nothing in them, but that's probably just the light, and the angle. Annie's still facing away from Jones and talks about feeling bad for Tony, both due to his disability and due to others' disapproval of his actions. In a close-up, she hopes Tony finds a way to communicate with her. I've speculated elsewhere about ways that could happen, from the simple to the Out There, and personally I doubt this chapter will end without something like that happening (at least to some degree). She's sort of figured out how to read some of his cues, but perhaps she could get better at interpreting Tony Sign Language. ("He twitched his little finger! That means he wishes he could talk to me about how he feels, which is also what every other cue means!") And then we're behind her again, and we don't see her face, as she reiterates that she loves him and will stay by him. I note that she says "at least one" (she's open to someone else – maybe he'll meet someone new, or is she talking about the part of her that is Surma in some spiritual way?) and "as deeply as possible" (does she imagine there's a limit to how much she can love him?). Then there's a reiteration of the schematic illustration of Tony's social situation from " I Want to Take Part in Life" – including the public-signage human figures and Tony outside the Venn diagram set of social interaction. But there's now an Annie figure, with its circular head the color of Annie's hair and its minimalist body the color of her jacket. "Even if he doesn't see me," she says, which I find odd considering that it's not seeing or perception that's Tony's issue; it's expression. If she follows through on this intention, he'll certainly see her doing things to show that she loves him. It's not as if his disability prevents him from noticing anything, as far as we've been shown or told. But perhaps Annie isn't entirely clear on that; after all, she hasn't seen what we have, and it's not as if Jones has been filling her in on her conversation with Tony or in fact saying anything at all. The Wandering Eye watches. The way this page ends looks as if it will probably end this scene. The chapter isn't over, though. Perhaps Tony has come up with an idea – will he speak openly to Renard and have him pass the message along to Annie? Will he figure out a way to send Annie a heartfelt email by typing with only his prosthetic hand? What have Tony and Renard been doing inside the house? Watching old movies?
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Post by silicondream on May 21, 2021 19:34:37 GMT
I get Tom wanting to convey things the right way(especial with this topic), but if this was an award show, I think they'd be playing the "Wrap it Up" music to Annie. Do you think Jones ever hums or sings? Maybe, the next comic starts with Jones' small micro-font speech bubble in the background, as Annie monologues. As the panels progress, Jones' bubble and font keep getting bigger. The final one being Annie silently looking to Jones, with most of the panel being Jones' speech bubble, "DA! Da da daaaaa! DA DA! Da Daaaaaa!" Nah, she's just carefully documenting all this so she can apply those amazing powers of observation and mimicry later.
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 21, 2021 19:45:03 GMT
MEANWHILE
Renard readjusting helium baloons for the umpteenth time so that the letters "L O V E ♥ Y O U ♥ A N T I M O N Y" are facing forward. Tony reheating her favourite dinner. Candles on a cake long gone. Tony: "I thought she'd come home just moments after you?"
I can dream, can't I? :-) But it would be nice if Jones and Tony prepared something during the time she spent there, or at least came up with some idea how to circumvent the barrier.
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Post by speedwell on May 22, 2021 12:16:09 GMT
... In a close-up, she hopes Tony finds a way to communicate with her. I've speculated elsewhere about ways that could happen, from the simple to the Out There, and personally I doubt this chapter will end without something like that happening (at least to some degree). She's sort of figured out how to read some of his cues, but perhaps she could get better at interpreting Tony Sign Language. ("He twitched his little finger! That means he wishes he could talk to me about how he feels, which is also what every other cue means!") ... She is a professional mediator. Everything about Annie is about synthesis and amalgamation. She'll do.
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Post by pyradonis on May 22, 2021 17:31:31 GMT
Regardless of one's opinion about the topic, this monologue is getting somewhat long.
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Post by frogspawned on May 22, 2021 18:54:32 GMT
I just hope it's not building us up for a comical "No, that's objectively wrong" from Jones.
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Post by Polyhymnia on May 22, 2021 23:22:04 GMT
I’m gonna be honest: I really hope we have a major twist ending for the last page.
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Post by speedwell on May 22, 2021 23:44:08 GMT
Regardless of one's opinion about the topic, this monologue is getting somewhat long. Who is John Galt?
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Post by mochakimono on May 23, 2021 17:07:10 GMT
Looking at that final bottom panel again is actually rather sad. It portrays Annie as isolated and alone, separated from the rest of her peers by standing beside and behind someone from whose perspective she is invisible.
Martyred love for someone you hope will change (despite all experience and evidence indicating they never will) is a feeling I'm unfortunately familiar with. If this were real life, my perhaps hypocritical recommendation would be for her to cut him loose and avoid throwing herself on that sword for naught. But as this is fiction, I as a reader can hold out hope that Tony will change his tune, own up to his wrongdoings, and give Annie closure with a proper apology (and a meaningful one by following through on being a better person). I won't go hashing out the whole argument here, but I will agree that yes, I've found his behavior inappropriate and bad parenting thus far, and I would find it more narratively satisfying if it -stopped- and their relationship were repaired, than to follow the more realistic route of his incapability to change inflicting a grievous emotional wound on an innocent child. What I would think of this relationship's endgame in reality isn't what I think (and hope) could conceivably happen in fiction.
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Post by todd on May 23, 2021 23:19:27 GMT
If Kat can lead the Court down a better path (and the Court's guilty of much worse than emotional distancing), Annie can probably help her father.
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Post by neonmoon on May 24, 2021 4:29:34 GMT
Someone in the main site's comments talked about Annie being parentified and I hate to say I agree. It's incredibly sad seeing her take the role of the stable, supportive parent in contrast to how thrilled and little-girlish she was in the flashbacks of Tony paying paternal attention to her. I'd like to see some kind of similar vow from Tony to say he's going to love and stand by Antimony no matter what, and it's not unpredictable but very sad to see that doesn't seem to be something the story sees as necessary from a parent to his young daughter. I wonder if Tom is ever going to tackle the whole grief part of realizing a parent is mentally impaired and is never really going to be the kind of parent you needed them to be? Or addressing Annie getting those relationships from somewhere else like Rey and Ysengrin?
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Post by phyzome on May 24, 2021 14:03:40 GMT
On each of these pages I keep expecting to see the end-of-chapter symbol, and it's not there -- each of the last panels has felt like a closing remark. It does feel a bit drawn out.
Other than that, it has been an interesting chapter, with lots of fuss surrounding the family unit but Annie actually being OK. Now someone just needs to tell her remarks to Tony. :-P
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yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
Posts: 190
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Post by yinglung on May 24, 2021 15:34:44 GMT
On each of these pages I keep expecting to see the end-of-chapter symbol, and it's not there -- each of the last panels has felt like a closing remark. It does feel a bit drawn out. Other than that, it has been an interesting chapter, with lots of fuss surrounding the family unit but Annie actually being OK. Now someone just needs to tell her remarks to Tony. :-P For reference, this is page 32, and the previous chapter ended on page 40.
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Post by silicondream on May 24, 2021 23:47:07 GMT
I'm sure someone has said this elsewhere, but: welcome (back), neonmoon! Someone in the main site's comments talked about Annie being parentified and I hate to say I agree. It's incredibly sad seeing her take the role of the stable, supportive parent in contrast to how thrilled and little-girlish she was in the flashbacks of Tony paying paternal attention to her. Well, she is a bit older, and adolescence is when you start to have more reciprocal relationships with your parents. I was occasionally talking my mom down from panic attacks at Annie's age. That said, only one of those flashbacks took place with Tony out of the mind cage, so I think she probably still gets a fair number of little-girlish moments even with him in locked-down mode: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1922www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1993www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1999www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2075www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2087Not as many as she'd like, of course. Yes, that would be a nice scene. It would require another character to ask for it, though, and Jones isn't the type. Don or Kat, perhaps? Coyote did address that fairly directly here, and after rumination Tony agreed with him. I doubt the other adults in the Court will address it; they don't much believe in intimate parenting anyway. Getting almost all your emotional support from your peers seems to be the norm. Renard would probably be the best person to bring it up, and perhaps he has already; I doubt whether this was his last word to Tony on the topic.
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