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Post by 0o0f on May 10, 2021 15:30:37 GMT
Finally I can see what was supposed to be Friday's page. That clears up that mystery.
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Post by warrl on May 10, 2021 17:15:53 GMT
The important thing, I think, is that Annie recognizes that while her own apparently-unique duality is a relevant factor, the basic underlying problem is HIS inability with two people at one time - in other words, NOT HER.
Kids tend to put their parents on a pedestal and think that any flaw in the parent/child relationship is a fault in themselves, not their oh-so-wonderful parents. Annie's past that. This is a good thing.
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Post by fia on May 10, 2021 17:54:38 GMT
Quick note – Annie never uses the word real/not real. She talks about "sides" of her father, and I think that is accurate and precise; both sociable Tony and awkward Tony are real. They're just real sides of him. Tony also doesn't use the word "real". He talks about being able and not being able to show Annie "how he is inside". One assumes, being able to share his mind with her. What I hope Annie says is something along the lines of, "My father responds this way toward me because there is no one else he has this relationship with or this history with. I know what that is like because I had a similar response when he came back to the Court, and I didn't know how to handle my emotions. This is the side of my father that is my father. He is not perfect, but I understand him better now than before. I hope we can begin building on that together." or maybe, "My father cannot forget my mother, and when he sees me he will always be processing that grief. I don't want either of us to forget her so I understand that, but I hope that he is able to remember her in other ways and share his memories with me little by little." It makes me sad for Annie that she doesn't think she'll ever be casual with her father, but at the same time, I understand. Had to have a talk with my mom a couple of years ago, because she was pushing and asking questions I couldn't answer, where I explained to her that I couldn't share my mind with her like I could with a good friend because she was my mom, and it's different with your parent. Some kids have a different relationship with their parent – that's what mine is with my mom. It made me sad to admit it but at the same time it was a relief to point out that the parent-child relationship can't be expected to be just like any other. There's too many emotions involved. We can work toward having healthier interactions, though, and sharing what we are able to share. I need more privacy from my mom than almost anyone else on the planet, I care far too much what she thinks. And she's invested in my life in a way she's not invested in almost anyone else's, so it makes her pushy. It's an awkward dance. In my case with her it's about setting boundaries and holding them even when neither of us is good at it. With Annie and Tony maybe it's about easing up a little bit on the anxiety and learning to see more interactions as less consequential or momentous. But they will always be to each other what no one else on the planet is, so the emotions will always run higher, in some ways. Forest Annie allowed a new pattern to be imaginable, and I think that's very constructive. Maybe it's a light on the path to guide them both toward something easier. I think maybe this is Annie realizing that having an imperfect parent doesn't mean you don't have their love? Even in a really weird case like Tony's where he's especially tight-lipped and awkward. If you love each other (in a not controlling or toxic way you know) you can move forward and try to build from that. |
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Post by Gemminie on May 10, 2021 18:30:50 GMT
Quick note – Annie never uses the word real/not real. She talks about "sides" of her father, and I think that is accurate and precise; both sociable Tony and awkward Tony are real. They're just real sides of him. Tony also doesn't use the word "real". He talks about being able and not being able to show Annie "how he is inside". One assumes, being able to share his mind with her. I went back and read my earlier comment again, thinking, "Did I say something about the 'real Tony?'" And it turns out that yes, I did. Well, I probably said that because as Tony described it, he is the one inside the mind cage, looking out but unable to act around others as he would want. It's valid to raise the question of how accurate that picture is, even though it's Tony himself describing it that way, because yes, the Tony whom others experience when the cage is around him is also real and is also Tony. So although I stand by what I said earlier, I also see your point. |
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Post by maxptc on May 10, 2021 18:32:11 GMT
I gotta say, I was VERY confused this morning when the comic page wouldn't update... I got there in the end. To the point of the comic, I'm afraid she's going too fast towards forgiveness? I mean, the word's not out yet, but it feels that way. Tony may have his reasons to be a penile appendage to her, but not to others (where others include a different version of her), for reasons. That doesn't stop him being an actual penile appendage. Um, to quick to forgiveness? Like it would be better if she was still devastated or angry? I'll agree that Tony hasn't really earned forgiveness, but I'd argue he can't earn it, its something that can only be given freely by Annie despite not being deserved. But if she's there, that's great. If she doesn't feel like he is abusing or neglecting her, and if she has forgiven and accepted who he is and what that means in regards to his behavior,that's good as well. I'm thrilled we have a happy Annie, devastated and recovering Annie is brutal to read. If the cost is she went easy on her Dad it just makes me appreciate UnderstanAnnie(yes that's what I'm calling this one) more, if she went the vindictive/manipulative route like she did with Jack things could go really bad. Forgiving the people who matter to you despite them not deserving it isn't always a good idea(though almost everyone does it), sometimes you gotta cut out unhealthy people. But Annie doesn't think thats the case with her Dad, so being able to move forward is her best option. It's not something everyone does and her being able to do so in a genuine way is a sign of growth. |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on May 11, 2021 7:02:23 GMT
I gotta say, I was VERY confused this morning when the comic page wouldn't update... I got there in the end. To the point of the comic, I'm afraid she's going too fast towards forgiveness? I mean, the word's not out yet, but it feels that way. Tony may have his reasons to be a penile appendage to her, but not to others (where others include a different version of her), for reasons. That doesn't stop him being an actual penile appendage. Um, to quick to forgiveness? Like it would be better if she was still devastated or angry? I'll agree that Tony hasn't really earned forgiveness, but I'd argue he can't earn it, its something that can only be given freely by Annie despite not being deserved. But if she's there, that's great. If she doesn't feel like he is abusing or neglecting her, and if she has forgiven and accepted who he is and what that means in regards to his behavior,that's good as well. I'm thrilled we have a happy Annie, devastated and recovering Annie is brutal to read. If the cost is she went easy on her Dad it just makes me appreciate UnderstanAnnie(yes that's what I'm calling this one) more, if she went the vindictive/manipulative route like she did with Jack things could go really bad. Forgiving the people who matter to you despite them not deserving it isn't always a good idea(though almost everyone does it), sometimes you gotta cut out unhealthy people. But Annie doesn't think thats the case with her Dad, so being able to move forward is her best option. It's not something everyone does and her being able to do so in a genuine way is a sign of growth. Oh no, I meant more along the lines of "shouldn't there be a few more steps between angry and forgiveness?". It might be because she went from two people with a lot of different experiences to the combination, so she skipped a few steps, but she went from "he's a terrible man and it's basically impossible to connect to him" to "I get it, it's fine, he is how he is". I was interested in seeing a little more of the process, not just hearing about it. Also: UnderstanAnnie? Bravo, I applaud you! |
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Post by maxptc on May 11, 2021 16:14:22 GMT
Um, to quick to forgiveness? Like it would be better if she was still devastated or angry? I'll agree that Tony hasn't really earned forgiveness, but I'd argue he can't earn it, its something that can only be given freely by Annie despite not being deserved. But if she's there, that's great. If she doesn't feel like he is abusing or neglecting her, and if she has forgiven and accepted who he is and what that means in regards to his behavior,that's good as well. I'm thrilled we have a happy Annie, devastated and recovering Annie is brutal to read. If the cost is she went easy on her Dad it just makes me appreciate UnderstanAnnie(yes that's what I'm calling this one) more, if she went the vindictive/manipulative route like she did with Jack things could go really bad. Forgiving the people who matter to you despite them not deserving it isn't always a good idea(though almost everyone does it), sometimes you gotta cut out unhealthy people. But Annie doesn't think thats the case with her Dad, so being able to move forward is her best option. It's not something everyone does and her being able to do so in a genuine way is a sign of growth. Oh no, I meant more along the lines of "shouldn't there be a few more steps between angry and forgiveness?". It might be because she went from two people with a lot of different experiences to the combination, so she skipped a few steps, but she went from "he's a terrible man and it's basically impossible to connect to him" to "I get it, it's fine, he is how he is". I was interested in seeing a little more of the process, not just hearing about it. Also: UnderstanAnnie? Bravo, I applaud you! Ah in that sense. Yeah, exposition has been heavy for the Tony/Annie conflict resolution, which is kind of a shame. Really having them talk instead of talking through other people would be cool. |
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Post by 0o0f on May 11, 2021 16:42:10 GMT
Anyway, I like how Annie is drawn in the last panel on page 26. Her smile from page 24 looked fixed and I wasn't sure how intentional that is to signify if there is something off with this "recombined Annie" or not, but here she looks more natural, so it's probably just Annie being Annie.
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V
Full Member
I just think it's a pity that she never wore these again.
Posts: 168
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Post by V on May 11, 2021 18:47:20 GMT
UnderstanAnnie(yes that's what I'm calling this one) Why not just UnderstAnnie? |
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Post by maxptc on May 11, 2021 21:29:21 GMT
UnderstanAnnie(yes that's what I'm calling this one) Why not just UnderstAnnie? That's super what I meant as far pronouncing it. |
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Post by silicondream on May 13, 2021 6:56:06 GMT
Oh no, I meant more along the lines of "shouldn't there be a few more steps between angry and forgiveness?". It might be because she went from two people with a lot of different experiences to the combination, so she skipped a few steps, but she went from "he's a terrible man and it's basically impossible to connect to him" to "I get it, it's fine, he is how he is". I was interested in seeing a little more of the process, not just hearing about it. When did she judge him as "a terrible man?" She was angry 25-ish chapters ago, but I think those feelings are long gone. The process was pretty much "cut hair, eavesdrop, vent to Ysengrin, lose your blinker stone, explode, recover Renard, and go back to self-improvement." And she hasn't thought he was impossible to connect with since Get Lost. It would be nice to see Annie gain the confidence to scold or lecture Tony, but I doubt she'll be terribly angry at that point. Exhilarated, more like. "I finally proved Father wrong about something!" |
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