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Post by Polyhymnia on Mar 26, 2021 17:25:21 GMT
You know, I’m starting to wonder what with the way this conversation’s blasting Tony if Jones isn’t giving him the side-eye on this page instead of a colluding glance: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 26, 2021 17:25:25 GMT
It's not gossip, it's social metadata.
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Post by fia on Mar 26, 2021 20:26:30 GMT
After reading Wednesday's comic, I was wondering, what would it be like for Cvet and Jones to be trapped in an elevator together? Unfortunately, they could simply rip the alloy doors open like tin foil, so I dropped the thought. I'm glad it got its comical resolution. I'm pretty certain Jones is preternaturally patient, though!
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Post by mturtle7 on Mar 26, 2021 21:50:14 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this!
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Post by maxptc on Mar 26, 2021 22:18:24 GMT
I wonder how long Cvet waited to tell Parley about Annie thinking Andrew is cute...
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Post by machiavelli33 on Mar 26, 2021 23:19:23 GMT
Absolutely love how Cvet immediately has Jones clutched close in spite of zero social cues coming out of Jones herself. Cvet has IMPORTANT THINGS to tell, yes? And she needs Jones to be at FULL receptivity for all of it, yes.
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 27, 2021 0:19:55 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! I generally dislike Cvet (and most other gossipy people) for this exact reason; they seem to make trivial entertainment out of serious, emotional, or traumatic matters. It's proving to be quite important for progressing the plot, however, so I'll let it slide just this once.
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Post by madjack on Mar 27, 2021 0:53:29 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! I think we need to go back to examine the information chain in this case. If what we saw in chapter 78 is all that was communicated, Kat didn't exactly confide all the important bits of what she was freaking out over to Paz, considering Kat's habit of trying to keep her troubles off other people's shoulders. So I think what we're seeing here is the end result of Paz needing to vent to someone about a problem with her partner Kat trying to get her head around the 'dual Annie thing' without being aware of the full extent of that problem. Cvet can't be fully blamed for reducing a serious issue to gossip here because of what was likely omitted at the source. The more important thing Cvet has done though, is dissolve all the reader tension in a single page. Edit: Although, Kat does say she will explain on that same page, so perhaps Cvet got the info before Paz got the updates.
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 27, 2021 0:58:09 GMT
"Of course I shouldn't tell you this, but..."
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 27, 2021 12:56:23 GMT
Absolutely love how Cvet immediately has Jones clutched close in spite of zero social cues coming out of Jones herself. Cvet has IMPORTANT THINGS to tell, yes? And she needs Jones to be at FULL receptivity for all of it, yes. To be fair, it's entirely possible that Cvet waited for cues coming out of Jones… Once.
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Post by drmemory on Mar 27, 2021 19:42:09 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation.
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Post by lurkerbot on Mar 28, 2021 0:19:28 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation. Jones was present during this parent flashback scene. And Jones and Tony were shown interacting here. That scene and this page suggest to me that Jones and Tony have similar thought processes. Perhaps they understand each other better than either of them does other folks (and vice-versa).
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novia
Full Member
Posts: 224
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Post by novia on Mar 28, 2021 0:29:05 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation. Jones was present during this parent flashback scene. And Jones and Tony were shown interacting here. That scene and this page suggest to me that Jones and Tony have similar thought processes. Perhaps they understand each other better than either of them does other folks (and vice-versa). Don't forget this mention: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=538
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 28, 2021 3:37:58 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation. Jones definitely knows who Tony is, and they have interacted more than once. We don't know how well she knows him, but as arguably the most observant being on the face of the planet, she definitely knows "how he is". But Jones SPECIFICALLY wasn't aware how he treated the two Annies differently. It seems that was a dynamic she never got the chance to observe.
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Post by blahzor on Mar 28, 2021 7:04:52 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation. Jones isn't always at the court but since James was around Jones would be too as she brought him and stayed in his life and will til his death.
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Post by drmemory on Mar 28, 2021 17:28:18 GMT
You know, I can't remember seeing Jones in any of the flashbacks to the parents. We know she was around though, because she is the one that picked up Jimmy Jims. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1118 Also Donald! www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1098 So she was around, and knew them, and has been a friend to Eglamore from his childhood on to the present day. My point here is that it just isn't possible that she wouldn't know how Tony is. Just because we haven't seen what kind of relationship they have doesn't mean there isn't one! To me, this puts a slightly different slant on her question - "How were you made aware of this?". She was genuinely asking how Cvet got the information. No idea how to interpret the eye contact between Jones and Tony www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2443, just pointing out that they already know each other, and probably pretty well. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Tony can talk to her just fine, regardless of what his issue is with interacting with people. Because she isn't a person, as such, in the sense that she (according to herself) has no capacity for emotional connection. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1116 I would expect that this would allow her to interact with Tony without him feeling any sort of social pressure. Also, if there is a physical aspect to his thing, she certainly shouldn't be putting out any pheromones or anything like that. I really like Jones and I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of this chapter unfold. Watching them talk may not be all that entertaining but I'd think there is a good chance that his walls may come down to a degree we haven't seen to date in that situation. Jones was present during this parent flashback scene. And Jones and Tony were shown interacting here. That scene and this page suggest to me that Jones and Tony have similar thought processes. Perhaps they understand each other better than either of them does other folks (and vice-versa). Good catch, lurkerbot. That page where she took Jimmy aside to comfort him about the Surma/Tony thing is exactly the sort of older flashback I was looking for. I know they've talked more recently, but couldn't remember how much she interacted with the clique back in the day.
That scene shows she knows all about the Surma/Tony thing, and I remember another page where Jimmy asks her if something is wrong with him and she says something like "I'll be with you forever".
So yes, Jones definitely knows how Tony is, and a lot about his history. So she really was just asking Cvet how SHE knew what she knew.
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Post by drmemory on Mar 28, 2021 17:44:04 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! You know, it didn't really sink in until I read that, but Paz is also a known gossip. She likes to recruit her other friends into stuff too. Remember this? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2251 What always struck me about that incident is how uncomfortable her friends looked, especially Becky. Like, is that regret? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2254
I feel like perhaps Paz gave them a one-side view of what was going on to suck them into the situation, and they weren't all that pleased to see the reality. Like, when "Everyone is saying it's your fault", does "Everyone" = "Paz"?
She was clearly going around and bad-mouthing Annie to anyone that would listen. Now she's found a receptive audience with Cvet. So I'm not surprised at all that Cvet got to hear whatever agenda Paz is currently pushing. It seems to be part of her personality (Paz). I'm not the biggest Paz fan ever. If nothing else, she's quite a security leak. The girls are doing a lot of things the court wouldn't be all that pleased with, and Paz will do or say anything to anyone that gets between her and Kat. Who else is she talking to? What has she told them about? Robot? Shadow? The new robot bodies? The arrow?
When Kat started telling Paz about the episode with the Norns, I got a really queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2382
This is a vindictive, immature little girl who knows all sorts of things that are better kept hidden, and has shown that she can't be trusted with sensitive information. Want to know how Aata learned about the lake water, and where and when to be to snag it? Look no further!
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 28, 2021 17:50:06 GMT
Jones was present during this parent flashback scene. And Jones and Tony were shown interacting here. That scene and this page suggest to me that Jones and Tony have similar thought processes. Perhaps they understand each other better than either of them does other folks (and vice-versa). Good catch, lurkerbot. That page where she took Jimmy aside to comfort him about the Surma/Tony thing is exactly the sort of older flashback I was looking for. I know they've talked more recently, but couldn't remember how much she interacted with the clique back in the day.
That scene shows she knows all about the Surma/Tony thing, and I remember another page where Jimmy asks her if something is wrong with him and she says something like "I'll be with you forever".
So yes, Jones definitely knows how Tony is, and a lot about his history. So she really was just asking Cvet how SHE knew what she knew. Exactly. I mean, if I'm asking around for information, and somebody gives me some, but I still want more, I might ask them where they got theirs, so I could go to the source with more questions. But yes, as blazingstar said, I think that Jones might not have known until now about Tony's treating Court and Forest Annie differently. She might want to go to Paz next with some more specific questions about that part of it. If we saw that, it would be interesting, as I don't think we've seen Paz and Jones ever interact.
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Post by mturtle7 on Mar 28, 2021 19:29:20 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! You know, it didn't really sink in until I read that, but Paz is also a known gossip. She likes to recruit her other friends into stuff too. Remember this? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2251 What always struck me about that incident is how uncomfortable her friends looked, especially Becky. Like, is that regret? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2254
I feel like perhaps Paz gave them a one-side view of what was going on to suck them into the situation, and they weren't all that pleased to see the reality. Like, when "Everyone is saying it's your fault", does "Everyone" = "Paz"?
She was clearly going around and bad-mouthing Annie to anyone that would listen. Now she's found a receptive audience with Cvet. So I'm not surprised at all that Cvet got to hear whatever agenda Paz is currently pushing. It seems to be part of her personality (Paz). I'm not the biggest Paz fan ever. If nothing else, she's quite a security leak. The girls are doing a lot of things the court wouldn't be all that pleased with, and Paz will do or say anything to anyone that gets between her and Kat. Who else is she talking to? What has she told them about? Robot? Shadow? The new robot bodies? The arrow?
When Kat started telling Paz about the episode with the Norns, I got a really queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2382
This is a vindictive, immature little girl who knows all sorts of things that are better kept hidden, and has shown that she can't be trusted with sensitive information. Want to know how Aata learned about the lake water, and where and when to be to snag it? Look no further!
DAAAAAAAMMMMNNNNNNN. I think that burn was way harsher than anything Annie could have done, even with her new powers! ...Pretty justified, though, I gotta admit. I really like Paz as a character, but she HAS been acting like kind of a jerk lately.
IN HER DEFENSE, though, I don't think she'd share stuff that she's been explicitly told are secrets. For instance, Shadow's existence is actually being, like, actively hidden from people, because if the Court finds out they'd probably try to capture, study, and/or kill him! Paz is perfectly capable of keeping secrets, when she's knows they're that important! She's a determined and willful lady! Stuff like "My girlfriend is working really late on this science thing all the time and ignoring me" or "I'm so sick of this other girl's endless garbage fire of a life making my girlfriend stressed", though...that's stuff she can ABSOLUTELY be counted to tell PLENTY of her other friends. Even Cvet, apparently, despite what an obviously terrible idea that was.
Incidentally, I've always tried to pay lots of attention to Becky when she appears (she IS the most important character in the entire comic, after all) and as far as I can tell, Becky's always liked Annie, at the very least ever since that Residential (see panel 2 here) but her brown-haired friend never really warmed up to her (remember, Annie got kind of a bad reputation with her fellow students during her early years at the Court). But, they're both pretty good friends with Paz, they can tell how much this whole deal is upsetting her, and she had some pretty convincing arguments for why Annie needed to be taken down a few pegs. So yeah, you end up with this situation where Becky wants to support Paz, but feels pretty bad for Annie as well, while Becky's friend just sees Annie getting what's been coming to her for a long time.
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Post by pyradonis on Mar 28, 2021 19:43:12 GMT
It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! I think we need to go back to examine the information chain in this case. If what we saw in chapter 78 is all that was communicated, Kat didn't exactly confide all the important bits of what she was freaking out over to Paz, considering Kat's habit of trying to keep her troubles off other people's shoulders. So I think what we're seeing here is the end result of Paz needing to vent to someone about a problem with her partner Kat trying to get her head around the 'dual Annie thing' without being aware of the full extent of that problem. Cvet can't be fully blamed for reducing a serious issue to gossip here because of what was likely omitted at the source. No, Paz can be blamed for telling someone who will obviously tell everyone else who doesn't run fast enough. It feels really, REALLY, weird to see all these huge, momentous plotlines and character arcs just be casually gossiped about in a single page by Cvet. I guess it's kind of like how gossip feels harmless when it's about someone you don't know, but hits hard when it's about you or a close friend. I can't exactly dislike Cvet here, especially since this actually is pretty important if Jones is trying to ascertain Annie's mental health, but goddamn it Paz WHY would you tell Cvet of all people about this! You know, it didn't really sink in until I read that, but Paz is also a known gossip. She likes to recruit her other friends into stuff too. Remember this? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2251 What always struck me about that incident is how uncomfortable her friends looked, especially Becky. Like, is that regret? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2254I feel like perhaps Paz gave them a one-side view of what was going on to suck them into the situation, and they weren't all that pleased to see the reality. Like, when "Everyone is saying it's your fault", does "Everyone" = "Paz"? She was clearly going around and bad-mouthing Annie to anyone that would listen. Now she's found a receptive audience with Cvet. So I'm not surprised at all that Cvet got to hear whatever agenda Paz is currently pushing. It seems to be part of her personality (Paz). I'm not the biggest Paz fan ever. If nothing else, she's quite a security leak. The girls are doing a lot of things the court wouldn't be all that pleased with, and Paz will do or say anything to anyone that gets between her and Kat. Who else is she talking to? What has she told them about? Robot? Shadow? The new robot bodies? The arrow? When Kat started telling Paz about the episode with the Norns, I got a really queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2382This is a vindictive, immature little girl who knows all sorts of things that are better kept hidden, and has shown that she can't be trusted with sensitive information. Want to know how Aata learned about the lake water, and where and when to be to snag it? Look no further!
Harsh, but not unwarranted. Although I'm sure the Shadow Men do not need to interview students to know what's going on.
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Post by madjack on Mar 28, 2021 23:01:00 GMT
Want to know how Aata learned about the lake water, and where and when to be to snag it? Look no further!
I largely agree with you except for this bit: The source of that info would have been Andrew and/or Parley reporting to the Court that Coyote gave them gifts and asking what to do with them. Both the trips into the Wisp's nest were likely arranged through the Court as well, given that Eglamore was involved.
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Post by lurkerbot on Mar 29, 2021 0:00:31 GMT
Jones was present during this parent flashback scene. That scene shows she knows all about the Surma/Tony thing, and I remember another page where Jimmy asks her if something is wrong with him and she says something like "I'll be with you forever".
This is where Jones says she will always be [around] for James. And I just realized it's clear from Jones' and James' clothing and discussion that this event takes place immediately after James' confrontation with Tony about Surma's change of heart. The page is from Chapter 40 on 3 Oct 2012, but it isn't until near the end of Chapter 64 on 1 Nov 2017 that we learn just what prompted Jones to console James - 5 years later in page posting real time! Talk about a long game, Tom... (Maybe this had already been posted in the "cool things I only noticed on reread" thread or elsewhere, so my apologies if this is old news to long-time forum readers).
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