[2437] Time to get a hold of yourself.

[madjack]

Did you do this, Zimmy?

[wies]

There is something dreamlike in the way the panels are ordered. And Renard keeps appearing at places without us seeing him getting there. Add to that C'Fannie's dazed look, and either it is to induce in us her confusion or to signify we are still in Zimmyland. It can also be both.

[basser]

Since Renard's in a totally different place now I choose to believe Annie's just been standing there staring blankly at her own hands for some time, like at least several minutes. Enough to where it's getting awkward but no one wants to say anything yet.

Also reminded of that scene from The Butterfly Effect where the main character gets massive brain damage after collapsing his timeline too often, because it turns out smushing wildly different sets of memories together into the same brain results in a bunch of holes where the neural connections don't line up. Thinking about this scene in the context of our new Singular Annie is very funny to me in a dark humor sort of way. Is she taking a quiet moment to adjust... or is it brain holes!?

[machiavelli33]

Is...
...is that it?

Is Annie really back? Just like that? Zimmy just...did it?

I knew Zim was powerful but...no, that can't be it. Can it?

[arf]

For those impatient for an explanation, do remember that Tom is also trying to convey the gravitas of the moments in the story.
As I suggested in the last thread, I suspect Rey played a part in recombining Annie (a thought reinforced by Annie finally seeing Rey in the last panel. We shall see.)
Also an interesting framing of two opposing profiles of Annie looking at the frontal.

[blahzor]

Mar 5, 2021 8:36:46 GMT wies said:

There is something dreamlike in the way the panels are ordered. And Renard keeps appearing at places without us seeing him getting there. Add to that C'Fannie's dazed look, and either it is to induce in us her confusion or to signify we are still in Zimmyland. It can also be both.

New one is UncAnnie

[beaukm]

Last comic I was so caught up in the simplicity of the page that I missed that the Annies had FUSED.

I'm not letting the same thing happen twice:

Rey has somehow teleported from next to Zimmy to behind Annie(s). Going back, Rey somehow suddenly appeared next to Zimmy when he hadn't been there a page earlier. I'm not convinced this is just showing they've been there so long the characters have moved, because we see Rey there, and panels / pages later he ISNT. Interesting how the characters this is happening to are the exact ones Gamma said got caught up in Zimmy's episode- Annie and Zimmy.

No, I think, if we aren't still IN Zimmy's head, then at least Annie & Rey still are. It's possible Zimmy's neat little trick only extends to the inside of her mind. That remains to be seen. But something *feels* amiss...

[Corvo]

What if the last pages are happening during the zimmingham sequence we just saw, instead of "after" or "before"?

[ohthatone]

I'm certainly willing to entertain the idea we haven't left zimmingham yet. Zimmy, having calmed down enough, can make zimmingham seem real and chill and fuse the Annies temporarily so they can work out any lingering problems without worrying about the elf kids.
That's as plausible to me as being able to undo loup's power.

But it also seems kind of backwards story wise, so I dont think that's what's happening.

[fia]

Nah I think we're out of Zimmyham. Blue skies, people happy, calm Renard. Not Zimmyham.

I think we had plenty of foreshadowing about this –– I remember when the Annies first showed up I drew them doing the fusion dance ala DBZ. Hahahaha. I never actually thought that's how they would recombine, though. Wow!

Also recall –– we spent months trying to figure out which Annie was "real". And Tom kept pushing the narrative, from every angle, that they both were. What can that mean other than that they were both parts of our protagonist? "Forest Annie" is just the parts of Annie that are more outgoing, a little younger, more open-minded, and calmer, seemingly untroubled by events that have happened to her that were traumatic and able to completely turn the page on her relationship with her father overnight, but vulnerable to criticism and able to cry. "Court Annie" is the parts of Annie that are disciplined, irritable, touchy about her appearance, but also very skilled and attached to people in her life and her memories, not so easily able to let go wrongs that have been done to her, willing to stand up for herself.

Both are Annie. Annie is/was both people, to an equal degree, without either being a complete version of herself by themselves. Somehow Loup managed to divide her while preserving a large part of herself in both people – probably mostly through retained memories and psychological continuity. (I won't annoy you with more metaphysics – but suffice to say we need Derek Parfit to help us with this one).

PS: it may not be much wonder that Forest Annie is who Loup kept around to converse with; those might be the parts of Annie he likes best ("you smell better without your face paints," etc – Fannie didn't care about getting her dress dirty, had longer hair, wore more foresty colors). Not very healthy romantic love, if you ask me.

PPS: This may all be a grand metaphor for what will ultimately happen with the Court and the Forest. I am starting to suspect Kat et al will help perform, not just a fusion between personhood and machine, but between the magic of the wild forests, and the advanced technology of the Court, and create a new community to amend the break that was planned by Diego et al. Jeanne was the start of this, removing the Annan river was another part of it, and now with the Elves joining in play with humans, it's all kind of accelerating. I wonder who the "enemy" will be. Probably no one, I'm starting to think. Probably just fear and misunderstanding. I kind of want there to be a Villain, because it adds dramatic urgency; but maybe there won't be?

[fia]

PPPS. I think Annie looks dazed because she's processing the two simultaneous experiences of Court Annie and Forest Annie as now one joint experience. Must feel pretty weird. Also she's probably a different height and stuff. Yeah.
I do wish there were 2 hair clips though.

[ctso74]

Considering all the overlapping memories, that she might be experiencing, Lrrr might have something to say about this.

[Alkazar]

Mar 5, 2021 14:33:51 GMT fia said:

Nah I think we're out of Zimmyham. Blue skies, people happy, calm Renard. Not Zimmyham.

I think we had plenty of foreshadowing about this –– I remember when the Annies first showed up I drew them doing the fusion dance ala DBZ. Hahahaha. I never actually thought that's how they would recombine, though. Wow!

Also recall –– we spent months trying to figure out which Annie was "real". And Tom kept pushing the narrative, from every angle, that they both were. What can that mean other than that they were both parts of our protagonist? "Forest Annie" is just the parts of Annie that are more outgoing, a little younger, more open-minded, and calmer, seemingly untroubled by events that have happened to her that were traumatic and able to completely turn the page on her relationship with her father overnight, but vulnerable to criticism and able to cry. "Court Annie" is the parts of Annie that are disciplined, irritable, touchy about her appearance, but also very skilled and attached to people in her life and her memories, not so easily able to let go wrongs that have been done to her, willing to stand up for herself.

Both are Annie. Annie is/was both people, to an equal degree, without either being a complete version of herself by themselves. Somehow Loup managed to divide her while preserving a large part of herself in both people – probably mostly through retained memories and psychological continuity. (I won't annoy you with more metaphysics – but suffice to say we need Derek Parfit to help us with this one).

PS: it may not be much wonder that Forest Annie is who Loup kept around to converse with; those might be the parts of Annie he likes best ("you smell better without your face paints," etc – Fannie didn't care about getting her dress dirty, had longer hair, wore more foresty colors). Not very healthy romantic love, if you ask me.

PPS: This may all be a grand metaphor for what will ultimately happen with the Court and the Forest. I am starting to suspect Kat et al will help perform, not just a fusion between personhood and machine, but between the magic of the wild forests, and the advanced technology of the Court, and create a new community to amend the break that was planned by Diego et al. Jeanne was the start of this, removing the Annan river was another part of it, and now with the Elves joining in play with humans, it's all kind of accelerating. I wonder who the "enemy" will be. Probably no one, I'm starting to think. Probably just fear and misunderstanding. I kind of want there to be a Villain, because it adds dramatic urgency; but maybe there won't be?

An additional point for this: Since the beginning Annie was a fusion between magic from her mother's side and science from her father's side. In that regard she is predestined to become the new connection between Court and Forest, an individual that embodies the qualities of both sides. I'm just not sure which part Kat will play in this. Her robotic personification represents the court in full purity and could be a contradiction to a unified Court and Forest. I don't like writing this, but perhaps we have already seen the final villain of the story.

[The Anarch]

TUVIX LIVES

[migrantworker]

Annies tried to gop each other, haven't they. That's why she looks so shellshocked right now and keeps focusing on her hands. In a way, she is a surivivor of a murder+suicide she herself perpetrated on herself.

[bedinsis]

I think it is still just a temporary thing. I find this too... convenient.

Parts of me want to say that Zimmy is not a reality warper, her powers manifest in the form of interaction in the world of ether (like smashing whitelegs or intercepting Tony's bone lasers), not reality. But then I remember that on the cruise she most definitely managed to work as an etheric generator, which was enough to make the boat flesh through Kat's guidance, and now she might also be amplified by the Omega device.

She did however not describe it as an amplifier, but as a way of looking into the unseen world, aka the world of ether. Something she is very much in tune with and which Loup is swimming in, and we saw the stress the omega device caused her in the last chapter.

Zimmie did say that "she knows something that will help Carver understand herself a little better". Is she talking about having both her selves experience each other's memories?

[Gemminie]

OK, so this page doesn't explain anything new. But Combined Annie is just standing there, looking at her hands (as she was in the previous page's last panel), for one wide panel, perhaps signifying a long moment. Then she looks up. Her eyes still look a little dazed.

She looks up and sees Zimmy and Gamma over there, sitting on the wall –

Wait. Zimmy is sitting right over there. Calmly.

Annie looks straight ahead, coming back to reality (or whatever this is). She finally takes in her surroundings. Then she looks over and sees Renard, who as several have pointed out isn't over by Zimmy anymore, so either he's teleported or, more likely, time's passed as she's been staring at her hands without noticing what's going on around her.

What is going on here? Well, this still may be an illusion/dream or not; this may still be temporary or not. Nobody's said anything yet. Not Zimmy, not Gamma, not Rey. But again, Renard isn't panicking or leaping to Annie's assistance in any way. He's either completely calm or also dazed. Either he's perfectly OK with whatever's just happened, or he's still disoriented too. (Or he's an illusion.)

Well then. Whilst floating in black telepathic outside-looking-in etherspace, Zimmy got an idea for helping Carver get to know herself better. So she realigns Zimspace around herself, and ... what does she do?

The elf kids are running about, kicking a football around, flirting, hanging out with some human kids too, seemingly normal. They're completely ignoring Zimmy and Gamma, which is exactly what Zimmy wants them to do. There appears to be just one Annie, and Renard is calm about it, which is exactly what Zimmy wants him to do. Indications are strong that whatever's going on with the single Annie, it's exactly what Zimmy wants her to do.

I've got more ideas. What if in that same etherspace, both Annies are looking out at this through little rectangles – this is an alternate reality, and the Annies are watching another Annie who hasn't been shifted/split/etc. who is going through something much like what they're going through? Or, conversely, what if this is that etherspace, and Singular Annie turns around and sees a bunch of little rectangles, and in them, she sees Forest Annie and Court Annie, still trying to figure out how to escape Zimmingham, fighting about their memories of their mom?

But then, there's Occam's Razor. There's one Annie here, with combined clothes. There's Renard, in wolf form. There are Zimmy and Gamma, over there. Consistent with what we know, how could the two Annies be combined if they're two actual different people from two separate alternate timelines? As far as we know, they can't. So this is an illusion, a trick of perception, which Zimmy's using to help Annie get it together. Or it's an alternate reality, one where the Annies were never split/shifted, and yet something similar has happened, and it's us the readers who have been shifted; we're watching a different timeline now. Or what happened when the two Annies came about wasn't what we thought happened; Loup actually split Annie into two people, and everyone's assumptions about different timelines are wrong. Or Zimmy's shuffled around which Annies are in which timelines, although how that would help Annie understand herself better isn't clear. I've got too many theories, and they'll have to wait until we see more.

[pyradonis]

Mar 5, 2021 8:36:46 GMT wies said:

There is something dreamlike in the way the panels are ordered. And Renard keeps appearing at places without us seeing him getting there. Add to that C'Fannie's dazed look, and either it is to induce in us her confusion or to signify we are still in Zimmyland. It can also be both.

Came here to say the same. It's disorienting how Renard is popping up here and there, but that feels dreamlike as well. Which is fine, because I really hope this is not real.

Mar 5, 2021 14:33:51 GMT fia said:

Also recall –– we spent months trying to figure out which Annie was "real". And Tom kept pushing the narrative, from every angle, that they both were. What can that mean other than that they were both parts of our protagonist?[...]

It could mean that Loup forked the timeline and put both Annies into one, like what was actually said in the comic. Why should Clippy and Brinnie both lie about what happened to Annie?
Furthermore I disagree with the whole possibility of both of them being a part; if they are only parts of the real Annie, they can not be the real Annie as well. The differences in their personalities come from a six-month gap in life experiences (which is huge for teenage standards). I dare anyone to claim they were completely the same person at 15 1/2 and 16 years of age...

[Sky Schemer]

Mar 5, 2021 17:17:02 GMT pyradonis said:

It could mean that Loup forked the timeline and put both Annies into one, like what was actually said in the comic

Though there is that inconvenient bit about neither of them being in the correct timeline. Though maybe fusionAnnie is representing that both were sent to the right place, and that fusionAnnie is the correct one brought back to here...only maybe now out of sync with events since chapter 69.

[Jota]

Obviously it would be impossible for Reynardine to teleport from Zimmy to behind Annie. So the only rational explanation for his being in those two different places is that in order to recombine Annie, Zimmy had to maintain the balance by splitting Reynardine instead.

[Eily]

Mar 5, 2021 18:26:36 GMT Jota said:

Obviously it would be impossible for Reynardine to teleport from Zimmy to behind Annie. So the only rational explanation for his being in those two different places is that in order to recombine Annie, Zimmy had to maintain the balance by splitting Reynardine instead.

Came here to say exactly that. So I'll have to go with another theory instead : The Annies and The Renard swapped bodies, so that's why there are now two Renards and one Annie.

That or this page and the previous are actually two distinct, yet similar scenes. As shown by the close up on Zimmy's hair that are sticking out on the last page, but clearly weren't on the previous.


...


But if I'm being honest, I know how wrong I've been before when I tried to prove that the obvious interpretation was incorrect. So I'm going to guess that this time, the inconcistencies in the two pages are just small mistakes from Tom, that I only notice because of the publication rythm. Although I'd find it kind of sad if both Annies were gone, only to be replaced by a new one.

[pyradonis]

Mar 5, 2021 17:55:24 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Mar 5, 2021 17:17:02 GMT pyradonis said:

It could mean that Loup forked the timeline and put both Annies into one, like what was actually said in the comic

Though there is that inconvenient bit about neither of them being in the correct timeline.

There's an explanation for that in-comic as well.

And even if Kat should be wrong, both Annies being a part of the "real" Annie would contradict Clippy's statement as well. If there is one single "real" Annie which belongs into the timeline we have been following, and she would have been split into two halves, then those two halves still should be here; where else should they be? (And why should Clippy recognize them both as full persons when each one would only be a half of a person?)

[fia]

Mar 5, 2021 19:15:22 GMT pyradonis said:

Mar 5, 2021 17:55:24 GMT Sky Schemer said:

Though there is that inconvenient bit about neither of them being in the correct timeline.

There's an explanation for that in-comic as well.

And even if Kat should be wrong, both Annies being a part of the "real" Annie would contradict Clippy's statement as well. If there is one single "real" Annie which belongs into the timeline we have been following, and she would have been split into two halves, then those two halves still should be here; where else should they be? (And why should Clippy recognize them both as full persons when each one would only be a half of a person?)

I don't think we disagree about what was said in-comic –– hard to explain what I'm imagining so I did a quick sketch on my phone.

What I'm thinking is that 'our' Annie already is the one from the Kat time-loop; not the one, if she really ever existed, who died falling off the bridge. ("You shouldn't be here" etc).
It is possible that if there are additional timelines it's just that Loup split time in two when he split the Annies; he let Court Annie return to the Court to hide the ruse, and then stitched the times back together when he let Forest Annie return to the Court (only to find 6 months had passed inside this timeline). ((Presumably, Loup can exist in multiple times at once)).

So, the timelines would have been stitched back together – but neither Annie would belong in the "original" timeline, because the "original" timeline would never have split, and there wouldn't have been two Annies. (I didn't draw that timeline because I have no idea what it would look like. Whatever the case may be, that's not an actualized possibility that we've witnessed in the comic; it's not simply the timeline where Court Annie returns and Forest Annie never does, or where neither Annie ever does; but that's again just my guess).

The timelines were already stitched back together by Loup when the Annies came back, so the one thing left to do would have been to stitch the Annies together. Which is what I'm guessing Zimmy helped do.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I have been before, but that's my going theory. I don't think Tom's story is as dark as lots of dead Annies in alternate timelines that genuinely exist. (Hence Clippy's hedge about them usually not existing unless powerful beings want them to).

[basser]

I'm just excited about Zimmy inexplicably fixing Annie having now become a running theme.

[Eversist]

If we take this at face-value and Zimmy did accomplish this feat (combining the two Annies), it's kinda funny in the context of this past interaction.

Also I've seen the sentiment (here and elsewhere) that this was "too easy." I dunno, I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot still to come concerning this (again, if we're taking this at face-value and it's truly what has happened), so we really have no idea how easy or cleanly this was done.

I personally find this acceptable, story-wise. Zimmy is still largely an unknown, so maybe she is this powerful.

I also like the idea that the other shoe has still yet to drop.

[pyradonis]

Mar 5, 2021 20:24:44 GMT fia said:

Mar 5, 2021 19:15:22 GMT pyradonis said:

There's an explanation for that in-comic as well.

And even if Kat should be wrong, both Annies being a part of the "real" Annie would contradict Clippy's statement as well. If there is one single "real" Annie which belongs into the timeline we have been following, and she would have been split into two halves, then those two halves still should be here; where else should they be? (And why should Clippy recognize them both as full persons when each one would only be a half of a person?)

I don't think we disagree about what was said in-comic –– hard to explain what I'm imagining so I did a quick sketch on my phone.

What I'm thinking is that 'our' Annie already is the one from the Kat time-loop; not the one, if she really ever existed, who died falling off the bridge. ("You shouldn't be here" etc).
It is possible that if there are additional timelines it's just that Loup split time in two when he split the Annies; he let Court Annie return to the Court to hide the ruse, and then stitched the times back together when he let Forest Annie return to the Court (only to find 6 months had passed inside this timeline). ((Presumably, Loup can exist in multiple times at once)).

So, the timelines would have been stitched back together – but neither Annie would belong in the "original" timeline, because the "original" timeline would never have split, and there wouldn't have been two Annies. (I didn't draw that timeline because I have no idea what it would look like. Whatever the case may be, that's not an actualized possibility that we've witnessed in the comic; it's not simply the timeline where Court Annie returns and Forest Annie never does, or where neither Annie ever does; but that's again just my guess).

The timelines were already stitched back together by Loup when the Annies came back, so the one thing left to do would have been to stitch the Annies together. Which is what I'm guessing Zimmy helped do.

Of course I could be totally wrong, I have been before, but that's my going theory. I don't think Tom's story is as dark as lots of dead Annies in alternate timelines that genuinely exist. (Hence Clippy's hedge about them usually not existing unless powerful beings want them to).

View Attachment

I *think* I understand what you mean, and while I agree it makes sense in itself, the comic has shown us no evidence of any stitching back together of timelines. All we know is what Clippy said, which is "[the original timeline when someone is shifted] continues along, but the person who is bumped just doesn't exist anymore". It seems pretty straightforward to me.
Even if your theory is true, in order to work with what has been established I again see no reason why Annie would have been split into two "halves" which somehow retain 95% of her personality. If Loup can split a single person like that, just picking out whichever personality traits he likes, then why in the world would he go through the trouble of splitting the whole timeline?

Regarding your last comment, I don't think there is any alternate timeline with a dead Annie anywhere. I think "The Thousand Eyes" made it clear that the past was not changed - Kat just accomplished what had already happened, she only did it from a few years later (in what is usually called a stable time loop, one of the very few time travel concepts that can remotely work without butchering the last shred of logic). What I consider dark is the possibility of two separate personalities having forcibly been merged with each other, destroying both original personalities and forcing two minds which are six months apart in age (again, as I said, that's huge difference for teenagers) to become one, which would amount to double murder and creation of a traumatized new person.

Mar 5, 2021 22:37:39 GMT Eversist said:

I personally find this acceptable, story-wise. Zimmy is still largely an unknown, so maybe she is this powerful.

While having a very powerful character around and never establishing what they are capable of so one can always fall back on giving them a new power to solve the most outlandish problems might avoid creating plot holes, it's not a very fun read either, especially if there has been virtually no build up to that.

[The Anarch]

Annie is looking at her hands because it turns out one Annie was left-handed, the other was right-handed, and the hands she ended up with were the non-dominant ones.

[saardvark]

Mar 5, 2021 14:33:51 GMT fia said:

PPS: This may all be a grand metaphor for what will ultimately happen with the Court and the Forest. I am starting to suspect Kat et al will help perform, not just a fusion between personhood and machine, but between the magic of the wild forests, and the advanced technology of the Court, and create a new community to amend the break that was planned by Diego et al. Jeanne was the start of this, removing the Annan river was another part of it, and now with the Elves joining in play with humans, it's all kind of accelerating. I wonder who the "enemy" will be. Probably no one, I'm starting to think. Probably just fear and misunderstanding. I kind of want there to be a Villain, because it adds dramatic urgency; but maybe there won't be?

The real villain is just ignorance, of ourselves and of the "other".  

I think Annie will have a role in the fusion as well... as she has a special knowledge and affinity with the Forest side and things magic/etheric, while Kat comes from the Court side and things scientific/mechanical.  They've been repeatedly symbolized as such in the treatises.  The two are almost perfect apostles of the two sides, and thus well suited to lead a detente, rapproachement and reunion of the two.   

[apache]

Methinks Annie is going to miss having a twin sister.

Going to be..interesting.

[arf]

I find there's an eerie parallel between what's just happened here, and the finale to 'Wandavision'.
Don't read if you want to see for yourself.

SPOILER: Click to show

Without going into a break down of nine peculiar but interesting episodes, what I mean is that Wanda's Vision and 'Zombie' Vision face off, and effectively merge. Zombie Vision is Vision's original body coded to a different purpose, without personality or memory. Wanda's Vision is an imaginary construct of Wanda, also without memory but has Vision's personality through mutual contact with the Mind Stone. He can only exist in Wanda's imaginary Universe (blah blah). Anyway, WVision persuades ZVision that they may be part of the same being and is able to unlock their mutually shared memories. It is possible he imparted his personality to Zombie Vision as well. It was strongly hinted in his final words to Wanda as he was uncreated.
I'm sure followers of the Marvel Universe will find out in due course.