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Post by arkadi on Jun 3, 2020 11:03:31 GMT
Surely not every remaining mystery; but the robot-related mysteries can easily be traced to Kat via time travel. And, as people have pointed out before, seeing that Kat is on her way to godhood and that the tic-toc tech she's created hast the ability to spread and grow, I wouldn't be surprised if the "seed Bismuth" that originated the Court turned out to be related to her as well.
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Post by Eily on Jun 3, 2020 15:07:45 GMT
Robot's chip was already special from the start. it could turn out that Kat made his original chip or the thing that made him special Like I said in another thread - I hope not every remaining mystery about the Court will be explained via time travel. For Robot, if time travel is confirmed then it is the simplest explanation for the fact that he basically predicted the future. But I do agree that I'd prefer it if time travel wasn't used as an explanation for mysteries that don't "need" it. Especially, I hope we don't find out that Diego's knowledge and actions were actually consequences of things Kat will do. If only because it would be pretty sad for so much of the comic to be about the girls fixing the mistakes of ancient Court people, only to then cause those mistakes (not just learn that you were the cause all along, but causing the bad situation *after* you faced the consequences). |
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 3, 2020 18:40:43 GMT
Like I said in another thread - I hope not every remaining mystery about the Court will be explained via time travel. For Robot, if time travel is confirmed then it is the simplest explanation for the fact that he basically predicted the future. But I do agree that I'd prefer it if time travel wasn't used as an explanation for mysteries that don't "need" it. Especially, I hope we don't find out that Diego's knowledge and actions were actually consequences of things Kat will do. If only because it would be pretty sad for so much of the comic to be about the girls fixing the mistakes of ancient Court people, only to then cause those mistakes (not just learn that you were the cause all along, but causing the bad situation *after* you faced the consequences). It could be inadvertent, though. For example, let's say Kat's Tic-Toc is sent back to before the Court's founding, either by her, or by Coyote or some other means. Then, a young Diego might capture one of the time-looped Tic-Toc copies, analyze it, and use the knowledge to create his robots.
I don't see why such a scenario would be disappointing. Let's face it, we constantly have to deal with unintended consequences in our linear-time lives. It's not too surprising that the same would be true in looped time.
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Post by Eily on Jun 4, 2020 8:45:29 GMT
For Robot, if time travel is confirmed then it is the simplest explanation for the fact that he basically predicted the future. But I do agree that I'd prefer it if time travel wasn't used as an explanation for mysteries that don't "need" it. Especially, I hope we don't find out that Diego's knowledge and actions were actually consequences of things Kat will do. If only because it would be pretty sad for so much of the comic to be about the girls fixing the mistakes of ancient Court people, only to then cause those mistakes (not just learn that you were the cause all along, but causing the bad situation *after* you faced the consequences). It could be inadvertent, though. For example, let's say Kat's Tic-Toc is sent back to before the Court's founding, either by her, or by Coyote or some other means. Then, a young Diego might capture one of the time-looped Tic-Toc copies, analyze it, and use the knowledge to create his robots.
I don't see why such a scenario would be disappointing. Let's face it, we constantly have to deal with unintended consequences in our linear-time lives. It's not too surprising that the same would be true in looped time.
It's pretty much only subjective at this point I guess. An other exemple where time travel make it possible to do worse than simply fail, is go back in time to try to save someone, and not only failing to do that, but ending up being the one who killed them all along. Here it's not as clear, because Kat's intention never were to change the past, but to improve on it, but I still feel like the time loop make the conclusion worse than just a straightforward unintended consequence. Also with a stable time loop, I feel like Diego's work wouldn't be a consequence of Kat's work, but a required element of the whole thing, basically a cog in the machine. It's one thing for your work to have unintended consequences, it's another for your work to basically run on them. |
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Post by warrl on Jun 4, 2020 18:02:39 GMT
I'm not sure that using time-travel to cause the history you already know to happen, because someone has given you the clues that tell you the time-travel is necessary, counts as a paradox.
I mean, if a time traveler were to go back and arrange things for Hitler to be accepted to art school, resulting in him being a moderately successful artist rather than a genocidal dictator, how would the time traveler then know it's desirable to go back and make those arrangements? And if the time traveler doesn't do that, then Hitler doesn't get accepted to art school and instead becomes a genocidal dictator, so the time traveler knows that going back and changing things is desirable, resulting in Hitler going to art school, so the time traveler does nothing about him, so he becomes...
(And inserting a passed message doesn't help. Why is the message passed? If Hitler is accepted to art school, there's no reason to pass a message, so Hitler isn't accepted to art school...)
But Kat is looking at a need that has been communicated to her (sort of), to send something back in time and cause the history she already knows happened. Continuity is complete. Causality is complete, albeit not in the normal order. There's no contradiction.
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Post by DonDueed on Jun 4, 2020 18:50:13 GMT
I'm not sure that using time-travel to cause the history you already know to happen, because someone has given you the clues that tell you the time-travel is necessary, counts as a paradox. I mean, if a time traveler were to go back and arrange things for Hitler to be accepted to art school, resulting in him being a moderately successful artist rather than a genocidal dictator, how would the time traveler then know it's desirable to go back and make those arrangements? And if the time traveler doesn't do that, then Hitler doesn't get accepted to art school and instead becomes a genocidal dictator, so the time traveler knows that going back and changing things is desirable, resulting in Hitler going to art school, so the time traveler does nothing about him, so he becomes... (And inserting a passed message doesn't help. Why is the message passed? If Hitler is accepted to art school, there's no reason to pass a message, so Hitler isn't accepted to art school...) But Kat is looking at a need that has been communicated to her (sort of), to send something back in time and cause the history she already knows happened. Continuity is complete. Causality is complete, albeit not in the normal order. There's no contradiction. The contradiction arises when Saslamel tells Kat that neither Annie should be there. If Kat "must" send the Tic-Toc back to save Annie, then she should indeed be there -- one of her, at least. So there's no reason for Saslamel to say that, and therefore no reason for Kat to send the birds back.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 4, 2020 18:50:55 GMT
I'm not sure that using time-travel to cause the history you already know to happen, because someone has given you the clues that tell you the time-travel is necessary, counts as a paradox. I mean, if a time traveler were to go back and arrange things for Hitler to be accepted to art school, resulting in him being a moderately successful artist rather than a genocidal dictator, how would the time traveler then know it's desirable to go back and make those arrangements? And if the time traveler doesn't do that, then Hitler doesn't get accepted to art school and instead becomes a genocidal dictator, so the time traveler knows that going back and changing things is desirable, resulting in Hitler going to art school, so the time traveler does nothing about him, so he becomes... (And inserting a passed message doesn't help. Why is the message passed? If Hitler is accepted to art school, there's no reason to pass a message, so Hitler isn't accepted to art school...) But Kat is looking at a need that has been communicated to her (sort of), to send something back in time and cause the history she already knows happened. Continuity is complete. Causality is complete, albeit not in the normal order. There's no contradiction. I think the statements "Antimony survived the fall from the bridge" and "Antimony died from the fall from the bridge" are equally true (or false) at this current point in the comic. Someone can point to an Antimony and claim that she didn't die, yet if nobody/nothing saves her she will have died. That's a paradox. I think that effect-preceding-cause is in itself paradoxical and will remain so whatever else happens, though other people may disagree, but the "she did/didn't die" paradox can be rendered past tense via saving Antimony. It will have been a true paradox but isn't now, if that makes any sense. |
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