jocobo
Junior Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by jocobo on Jan 10, 2020 17:17:35 GMT
What exactly does Paz expect Annie to be able to do about it though?
Kat is upset, presumably, about the 2 Annie situation. But....Annie didn't make the situation, it was not was a foreseeable outcome of anything she did and she can't just decide to fuse into one being for everyone else's piece of mind.
This entire scenario rubs me the wrong way because it's straying dangerously close to "Annie(s) should feel bad for existing, again"
Like imagine you were in a terrible work related accident that caused a permanent change to your life in a physical, noticeable level. And you took it badly at first. Terrible in fact. It even made you have an identity crises about if you were still really you. But you slowly adjusted and were now at ease with the change. You resumed working and were in the process of cleaning up the fallout of the horrible accident.
And then your best friend's girlfriend starts threatening and screaming at you that its somehow your fault that your friend is more upset about the accident than you are.
I don't really know how else to read this scenario besides that.
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jan 10, 2020 17:40:28 GMT
How exactly do we arrive at "a couple of weeks ago" here? The two Annies made up the night after they first met. Getting the goose bone and returning to Loup should be done as soon as possible to not anger him, then the discussion with the elves should have happened immediately after that meeting. This can only be 2-3 days at most after the double Annies became a thing.
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Post by saardvark on Jan 10, 2020 18:15:18 GMT
We're not actually sure that this is the case though. Kat may think that's the case and be acting to find this hypothetical Annie number 3 to make sure she's safe, so in that sense what the audience knows is irrelevant, but we're still not actually sure if there are more than 2 Annies. "Well, miss Antimony, it seems that you have been shifted out of your timeline and brought here." "Well, it seems that neither of them should be here." I mean, Kat's conversation with Clippy seems to heavily lean in that direction. We know that the Annies were shifted from their original timeline(s), and neither of the current Annies are from this timeline. What does that leave? References: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2161www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2162It is possible that the first quote is referring to just one of the two (possibly C!Annie?) and "neither should be here" indicates that one (possibly F!Annie?) either (1) was supposed to meet an untimely fate already, but didn't (ala pyradonis' idea above), or (2) shouldn't be here in their current form (F!Annie should be 6 months older), or (3) something else(?). It isn't certain that "neither should be here" means BOTH are timeline shifts. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 10, 2020 18:18:04 GMT
To be perfectly honest, "people being upset about things you have little or no control over" is not limited to just fictional characters.
It's just that webcomic characters have weirder things to be upset about.
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Post by Elysium on Jan 10, 2020 18:18:12 GMT
What exactly does Paz expect Annie to be able to do about it though? Sounds like Paz is getting desperate; she tried to talked it out with Kat, got told off and now taking it out on Annie seems like the next best option. Which is actually IS, she might come across as rude but at least now the Annies can't ignore the problem, lest we forget the Annies saw the fallout of the fight between Kat and Paz and didn't press Kat on the issue. |
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Post by bgb16999 on Jan 10, 2020 18:54:10 GMT
She doesn't sleep AND she can't concentrate? One of those things is probably the result of the other.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 10, 2020 18:56:33 GMT
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 10, 2020 20:15:35 GMT
So how does everyone think Monday's page will follow up:
1. Annies resolve to talk to Kat of their own accord or Paz demands it?
2. Annies try to reason with Paz only for her to scream "Shut Up" and that the time to talk has passed? Then we see both Annies receive a blow on the head from behind, fall unconscious and then we see three more friends of Paz. Each armed with a different piece of sports equipment (bat, hockey stick and club).
I can't help but go with a number 2. Heck some of you will probably say it's a crappy idea.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 10, 2020 20:21:17 GMT
So how does everyone think Monday's page will follow up: 1. Annies resolve to talk to Kat of their own accord or Paz demands it? 2. Annies try to reason with Paz only for her to scream "Shut Up" and that the time to talk has passed? Then we see both Annies receive a blow on the head from behind, fall unconscious and then we see three more friends of Paz. Each armed with a different piece of sports equipment (bat, hockey stick and club). I can't help but go with a number 2. Heck some of you will probably say it's a crappy idea. The whole webcomic has been a red herring story, leading up to its true purpose, the wacky/ dark adventures of Paz and gang on the run from the (Court) law. * Also, Paz suddenly drops the "cute, foreign exchange student" act for either East End London, Mancunian or Glaswegian, whichever is funnier. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 10, 2020 21:20:50 GMT
So how does everyone think Monday's page will follow up: 1. Annies resolve to talk to Kat of their own accord or Paz demands it? 2. Annies try to reason with Paz only for her to scream "Shut Up" and that the time to talk has passed? Then we see both Annies receive a blow on the head from behind, fall unconscious and then we see three more friends of Paz. Each armed with a different piece of sports equipment (bat, hockey stick and club). I can't help but go with a number 2. Heck some of you will probably say it's a crappy idea. 3. Annie does this again. Only this time it's not her own hair she sets on fire. |
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Post by mordekai on Jan 10, 2020 21:53:11 GMT
What exactly does Paz expect Annie to be able to do about it though? Kat is upset, presumably, about the 2 Annie situation. But....Annie didn't make the situation, it was not was a foreseeable outcome of anything she did and she can't just decide to fuse into one being for everyone else's piece of mind. This entire scenario rubs me the wrong way because it's straying dangerously close to "Annie(s) should feel bad for existing, again" Like imagine you were in a terrible work related accident that caused a permanent change to your life in a physical, noticeable level. And you took it badly at first. Terrible in fact. It even made you have an identity crises about if you were still really you. But you slowly adjusted and were now at ease with the change. You resumed working and were in the process of cleaning up the fallout of the horrible accident. And then your best friend's girlfriend starts threatening and screaming at you that its somehow your fault that your friend is more upset about the accident than you are. I don't really know how else to read this scenario besides that. Yep, what does Paz expect Annie to do?
Ignore the insane, hostile god who is laying siege to the Court and has declared that he could, in fact, destroy it and kill everybody inside if he really tried? Yeah, that would totally end well for everybody, Kat included...
Leave the Court? Great! Now Loup has even less reasons to not destroy the Court, since there is nobody he cares about inside, and the only mediator he cares to speak with is gone anyways... And it's not as if Loup can't hunt the Annies and bring them back to the Forest... Heck, he probably already keeps the original Annie as a prisoner there!
Commit suicide? Yeah, that will totally fix all of Kat's emotional problems, for sure... By the way, death won't take Annie(s) out of the way, she(they) will stay around as a Soul Guide(s)...
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Post by hp on Jan 10, 2020 23:44:54 GMT
Kat might be worried about the lost Orannie (That is, Original Annie, the one that according to Clippy *should* be in the timeline we're following). She might be looking for her as some mentioned...
But I wonder if some research dead end will bring her to the point of going into the forest to ask Loup about Orannie, and we'll finally be able to see the 2 meet. I'm curious to know what will be Loup's reaction when seeing Kat's ethereal form (Do we already have some nickname for that form? Networkat? Katwork? Panoptikat? Xenokat? NSA Kat? The one I'm currently using in my avatar)
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 10, 2020 23:45:16 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm still happy with Becky's latest two-panel appearance, but also REALLY frustrated that we can't see Hazel's face. Becky looks like she's trying to catch her eye in panel 5 after Paz's big outburst, and now I'm going to be left in suspense forever as to whether she succeeded or not! Also, sort of curious how much Paz actually briefed them about Kat's work and/or Annie's "situation"; confusion could also explain her current nervousness.
Also, some more meaningless side drama yeahyeahwhatever let's get back to Becky already.
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Post by todd on Jan 11, 2020 0:57:00 GMT
Yep, what does Paz expect Annie to do?
Ignore the insane, hostile god who is laying siege to the Court and has declared that he could, in fact, destroy it and kill everybody inside if he really tried? Yeah, that would totally end well for everybody, Kat included... Leave the Court? Great! Now Loup has even less reasons to not destroy the Court, since there is nobody he cares about inside, and the only mediator he cares to speak with is gone anyways... And it's not as if Loup can't hunt the Annies and bring them back to the Forest... Heck, he probably already keeps the original Annie as a prisoner there! Commit suicide? Yeah, that will totally fix all of Kat's emotional problems, for sure... By the way, death won't take Annie(s) out of the way, she(they) will stay around as a Soul Guide(s)...
I suspect that Paz is simply too upset to think over those options. Though there might be "The Court has a lot of highly capable grown-ups - the Donlans, Eglamore, Jones, etc. Let them handle the problem and stop trying to fix things and getting in their way". (Whether the adults at the Court *can* handle Loup I don't know - we still haven't seen any evidence of that. Given that, if they did have a plan to take him down, they could have used that information to talk Annie out of going to see him, I suspect they don't.) |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 11, 2020 1:11:25 GMT
Hmm. Probably. Hm. I get where Paz is coming from, but I wonder if she's going to offer some sort of solution this time, rather than just be more threatening Does she even know the problem? Paz still doesn't mention anything beyond the immediate problem. It looks like she's just upset in general and dumps it on Annies because there's no one else with whom she could talk about it. |
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Post by todd on Jan 11, 2020 1:18:20 GMT
It looks like she's just upset in general and dumps it on Annies because there's no one else with whom she could talk about it. I still think that's most likely it - the real reason why Annie's getting the blame is that the people who contributed even more to the current disaster (Coyote, Loup, and maybe the Court - without its insistence on delving into the ether and its general poor treatment of the Forest, would the forest-folk be so angry at it?) are beyond Paz's reach. The Court. Too nebulous to shout at. Coyote. Dead. Loup. Too powerful and dangerous to shout at. The two Annies. Present, relatively powerless, and thus most easily available to vent your distraught feelings upon. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 11, 2020 1:54:42 GMT
...Alright FINE I can't take it anymore maybe I WILL actually comment on JUST a little bit of the "meaningless side drama".
For extra juicy context, please note that these characteristics (inconsiderate, caught up in her own problems, no passive sense of empathy) are all stuff she probably inherited from her father, Tony, and which are precisely what make Tony one of the most hated & controversial characters in the entire comic. So if you've ever been mad at Tony for being an oblivious, self-centered little sh*t, even knowing how stressed out or well-intentioned he was, you might be able to understand a little better why Paz is so furious at Annie right now. " That's the problem" indeed. |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Jan 11, 2020 2:45:50 GMT
From the sounds of it, Kat hasn't told Paz the whole issue with the split Annies yet - which is to say, neither of these Annies are *this timeline's* Annie, which is a two-fold concern for Kat: both of these Annies are from timelines where there is no Annie and where everyone thinks she wandered into the forest and never returned, and also this timeline's Annie is MIA and who knows what is happening to her right now.
This info was relayed to Kat in, essentially, cosmic confidence (since the timestop divorced everyone from hearing it), with the only exceptions being the Annies and Rey (who Kat can't confide in for being directly part of the problem) - PLUS, Kat probably figures Annies-duo have enough to worry about right now, and so....stewing.
Can't tell the people involved, can't confide in anybody she cares about - all there is is to work, and worry, and work...and worry.
Paz being the attentive partner she is of course notices, but doesn't know what the heck to do - but probably notices the sidelong glances and frustrated glowers at Annies Gaiden and (reasonably, given her limited information) presumes Annie's doing goddamn something to kick Kat down an emotional hill. Talking it out with Kat has led nowhere, but Paz is apparently not the type of person to sit there and *do nothing* when her loved one is at stake (empathic! emotional!) so its out to Annie it is.
Of course Annies-2-Blugaloo's not gonna know where any of this came from - as far as they're concerned this is completely out of left field, since there's no evidence Kat ever talked to them about it after the conversation with Saslamel.
Its a tragedy of circumstance. Everyone's behaving exactly in the way they think is best, that is most natural for them, and because of how the pieces are laid, its going kind of poorly.
That it happens at a time already in crisis like this makes it even worse.
I mentioned it before but: this is where lines are pulled taut. This is where resolves are tested. This is the time where heroes are made.
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 11, 2020 2:50:21 GMT
And even with some of the more pressing situations going on, Annie is in the same situation that Zachary Quinto is in at the end of Star Trek 2009. She can be in two places at once. One can focus on Loup related issues and one can lend an ear to Kat. Now that said, I think Becky is a tad overrated. Please don't hurt me.  |
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Post by aline on Jan 11, 2020 14:32:54 GMT
Horrible thought: If this Kat is in a really bad way, the Kat who's in the alternate universe where Annie (probably) didn't come back at all has got to be a complete mess. She is. Remember neither of the two Annies is from this timeline. Even though there are two of them, this Kat's Annie never came back from the forest. Annie is too busy dealing with the whole mess to think about what could have happened to a third version of her. But for this Kat, the Kat from this timeline, her friend went to the forest and never came back. That's why she can't sleep. This is the girl who built a flying ship to rescue her probably dead friend from the ravine, and then apologized because she wasted time crying. Her Annie is gone, and she won't rest until she's found her. (That said, I think Paz really should be more sensitive, Annie is dealing with a lot too and none of this is her fault). |
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Post by warrl on Jan 11, 2020 20:26:49 GMT
Remember neither of the two Annies is from this timeline. Even though there are two of them, this Kat's Annie never came back from the forest. I would argue against your confidence in that statement... but what matters in context is Katrina's belief in it. (One alternative explanation, that has been suggested, is that this timeline's Annie was supposed to die at some point - most likely when she fell from the bridge - so should no longer be present even though this is her native timeline. Yet here she is.) |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 11, 2020 20:51:09 GMT
By the way, when Paz eventually demands that Antimonies and Kat no longer be friends/have contact with each other/whatever, despite what Kat has said in the past, how many other people think Antimonies will at least initially agree? |
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Post by rasputingold on Jan 11, 2020 22:54:18 GMT
Remember neither of the two Annies is from this timeline. Even though there are two of them, this Kat's Annie never came back from the forest. I would argue against your confidence in that statement... but what matters in context is Katrina's belief in it. (One alternative explanation, that has been suggested, is that this timeline's Annie was supposed to die at some point - most likely when she fell from the bridge - so should no longer be present even though this is her native timeline. Yet here she is.) Good point on Kat's belief being what's important.
About Annie having been meant to die when she fell from the bridge...she survived because the Tik-Toks grabbed her. We still have essentially no information on them, but this implies that the Tik-Toks are not subject to fate/other forces (whatever they may be).
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Post by madjack on Jan 11, 2020 23:34:08 GMT
Remember neither of the two Annies is from this timeline. Even though there are two of them, this Kat's Annie never came back from the forest. I would argue against your confidence in that statement... but what matters in context is Katrina's belief in it. (One alternative explanation, that has been suggested, is that this timeline's Annie was supposed to die at some point - most likely when she fell from the bridge - so should no longer be present even though this is her native timeline. Yet here she is.) It didn't hit me until just now that these two aren't mutually exclusive. It's definitely possible there's a third Annie hostage somewhere... And that all 3 were meant to die earlier in the story anyway. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jan 12, 2020 5:00:32 GMT
All I can say is, Paz's backup started feeling real awkward about halfway through this page. Although to be fair, I don't know how you wouldn't feel awkward right from the start, if your friend asked you to be her support system as she confronts a pair of duplicated time travel clones with magic fire powers for having a shitty attitude about the mental state of her supergenius girlfriend. That's a lotta new territory being thrown at you at once
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jan 12, 2020 6:30:36 GMT
I feel like we see the cutesy, childlike/ish caricatures like Paz in panel four more and more often and I’m not sure what to think about it.
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 12, 2020 7:34:49 GMT
Now that said, I think Becky is a tad overrated. Please don't hurt me. HOW DARE YOU SIR. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 13, 2020 10:54:23 GMT
Kat might be worried about the lost Orannie (That is, Original Annie, the one that according to Clippy *should* be in the timeline we're following). She might be looking for her as some mentioned... But I wonder if some research dead end will bring her to the point of going into the forest to ask Loup about Orannie, and we'll finally be able to see the 2 meet. I'm curious to know what will be Loup's reaction when seeing Kat's ethereal form (Do we already have some nickname for that form? Networkat? Katwork? Panoptikat? Xenokat? NSA Kat? The one I'm currently using in my avatar) No. Clippy never said that there should be a third Annie, or that both Annie F. and Annie C. are not from this timeline. Only that neither of them is supposed to be there, which might mean any number of things.
Regarding a nickname for Kat's Ethereal form, I think most people here call it "Mecha Angel".
I would argue against your confidence in that statement... but what matters in context is Katrina's belief in it. (One alternative explanation, that has been suggested, is that this timeline's Annie was supposed to die at some point - most likely when she fell from the bridge - so should no longer be present even though this is her native timeline. Yet here she is.) Good point on Kat's belief being what's important. About Annie having been meant to die when she fell from the bridge...she survived because the Tik-Toks grabbed her. We still have essentially no information on them, but this implies that the Tik-Toks are not subject to fate/other forces (whatever they may be).
Well, the robots claimed the TicTocs were old, even said to be older than the Court. They are robotic, and while we know that Diego was able to build robots with speakers and video cameras during his lifetime (when was that anyway? 18th/19th century?) the interior technology of the dead TicToc Annie cut up looks decidedly 20th/21st century. A popular theory is that someone (probably Kat, who seems to have a certain fascination with robots as well as birds) sent them back in time to save Annie when she fell. Alternatively, that a deity will be created (again, probably Kat, from the belief of former robots uplifted to actual living beings), will have retroactively existed at least as long as robots have existed, and created the TicTocs way back then, again to save Annie from her fall. |
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