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Post by antiyonder on Jan 8, 2020 18:30:20 GMT
The real question is what Paz said to the other girls to get them to show up here for the confrontation. It may be that she's just been repeating her "Antimonies do things to make Kat upset" which makes PazKat miserable refrain but perhaps she needed to up the ante to make sure she'd get support, in which case there's a more complex gurlpolitic narrative involved. Whatever it was, it was only a partial success. The brunette seems quite angry already, but the blonde looks like she doesn't really want to be there. The blonde either thinks Paz is acting out of sorts and/or worried that they're about to be roasted, toasted and burnt to a crisp. |
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Post by migrantworker on Jan 8, 2020 19:36:34 GMT
They're sold enough on the basic idea to show up here and come around the corner on cue, or perhaps Becky's friend is and managed to pull Becky along. Not sure what exactly what they're thinking and not sure that we'll see enough in the comic to find out. It may be something related; Becky may have doubts about Antimonies' guilt but she may also be concerned that Paz isn't prosecuting her case as well as she could... or maybe she's just here to see the show. I'm looking at the girls' body language, and this is what I see: Becky just stands there eyes wide open, lips pursed, facing sideways from Annies, I think she even hunches ever so slightly. Sold enough to have come, but no more. Paz's outburst only makes her wrap an arm around her torso, a protective gesture - as if afraid of an escalation potentially resulting from it. All in all she looks almost embarassed to even be taking part. Perhaps she just has a generally nonconfrontational personality? Contrast that to the brunette: standing straight, frowning and staring directly at Annies. She has already worked herself up and is ready for a fight - not for starting one, because she still keeps at a safe distance behind Paz's back and her arms are crossed, but definitely for intervening if Annies make any move that can be construed as aggressive. TL;DR I interpret the group dynamics as Paz being a leader, brunette an enthusiastic and fully committed follower, and Becky a reluctant tag along. As a side note, I don't recall Paz ever being shown taking the lead before... The blonde (...) worried that they're about to be roasted, toasted and burnt to a crisp. Seems like a perfectly valid reason to want to be somewhere else...  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 20:38:02 GMT
They're sold enough on the basic idea to show up here and come around the corner on cue, or perhaps Becky's friend is and managed to pull Becky along. Not sure what exactly what they're thinking and not sure that we'll see enough in the comic to find out. It may be something related; Becky may have doubts about Antimonies' guilt but she may also be concerned that Paz isn't prosecuting her case as well as she could... or maybe she's just here to see the show. I'm looking at the girls' body language, and this is what I see: Becky just stands there eyes wide open, lips pursed, facing sideways from Annies, I think she even hunches ever so slightly. Sold enough to have come, but no more. Paz's outburst only makes her wrap an arm around her torso, a protective gesture - as if afraid of an escalation potentially resulting from it. All in all she looks almost embarassed to even be taking part. Perhaps she just has a generally nonconfrontational personality? Contrast that to the brunette: standing straight, frowning and staring directly at Annies. She has already worked herself up and is ready for a fight - not for starting one, because she still keeps at a safe distance behind Paz's back and her arms are crossed, but definitely for intervening if Annies make any move that can be construed as aggressive. I interpret the group dynamics as Paz being a leader, brunette an enthusiastic and fully committed follower, and Becky a reluctant tag along. I will agree with your assessment and add that Becky adopts a half-crossed arm pose as Paz leans in aggressively to prosecute her case in panel 6, while the brunette has both arms crossed in a closed-off defensive posture. Becky's facial expression is less pursed-liped than the brunette. I should add that their posture does not suggest that they expect imminent violence, just that the brunette thinks that Antimonies definitely have some explainin' to do while Becky is maybe halfway there. As a side note, I don't recall Paz ever being shown taking the lead before... Well, she let Robby write the letter but essentially Paz did take the lead back in Ch. 42 when she was not only making a move toward dating Kat but was quite eloquentwhile doing so. She got to be assertive in Ch. 49 (starting around here) and even got to be heroic while helping Kat in Antimony's absence. Can't help but notice in passing that if Antimonies were out of the picture then Paz would be arguably Kat's greatest protector who isn't a robot. But now, despite her aggressive posturing, Paz is depicted as perspiring in panel 5. She is taking the lead but isn't comfortable about it. Since I'm pretty sure that none of them actually expect Antimonies to attack or fry them I think that means Paz knows her case against Antimonies is weak even though her feelings are strong. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 8, 2020 20:45:02 GMT
I guess the brunette Teen Girl Squad member doesn't have an official name yet?
I'm thinking Heather. Or Tiffany.
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Post by migrantworker on Jan 8, 2020 21:23:27 GMT
As a side note, I don't recall Paz ever being shown taking the lead before... Well, she let Robby write the letter but essentially Paz did take the lead back in Ch. 42 when she was not only making a move toward dating Kat but was quite eloquentwhile doing so. She got to be assertive in Ch. 49 (starting around here) and even got to be heroic while helping Kat in Antimony's absence. Can't help but notice in passing that if Antimonies were out of the picture then Paz would be arguably Kat's greatest protector who isn't a robot. But now, despite her aggressive posturing, Paz is depicted as perspiring in panel 5. She is taking the lead but isn't comfortable about it. Since I'm pretty sure that none of them actually expect Antimonies to attack or fry them I think that means Paz knows her case against Antimonies is weak even though her feelings are strong. Erm, somehow I forgot all about Paz asking Kat out...? But not so sure about the second example. By my understanding she is simply carrying out instructions delivered to her by Shadow two pages earlier. On top of what you say, Paz's sweating may also suggest that she cannot sustain aggression for long. If Annies only keep their cool long enough for Paz to vent all that she has to vent, they may yet have a more productive conversation. Unless she runs away in tears again, that is. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 8, 2020 21:43:56 GMT
But not so sure about the second example. By my understanding she is simply carrying out instructions delivered to her by Shadow two pages earlier. True she wasn't the brains or even in leadership but look at what those instructions required her to do. That did require some gumption. On top of what you say, Paz's sweating may also suggest that she cannot sustain aggression for long. If Annies only keep their cool long enough for Paz to vent all that she has to vent, they may yet have a more productive conversation. Unless she runs away in tears again, that is. Well, yeah, this is almost certainly going to end with Paz running away in tears but it's about the journey, not the destination. I guess the brunette Teen Girl Squad member doesn't have an official name yet? I'm thinking Heather. Or Tiffany. Becky and the Basics feat. Paz? |
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 8, 2020 22:08:59 GMT
Seems like a perfectly valid reason to want to be somewhere else... Hey now. We have no clue the extent of how threatening Paz could be. Maybe she suggested that incineration would be the least of their problems if they don't help out.:-) |
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 8, 2020 22:31:50 GMT
As long as Paz is willing to talk with the Twins, and not at them, I imagine any misunderstands can be worked out. I'm curious if this is something that the Carvers have no clue about, and Kat's merely told Paz they know and support it. Friday may tell... five Fridays from now, that is.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 8, 2020 22:54:07 GMT
I think it's worth remembering that from the beginning Kat didn't want Annie to meet with Loup, citing the danger of doing so. Not only did Annie ignore those concerns, when things went wrong, she never acknowledged that Kat was right, but on the contrary continued down a path that involves more interactions with Loup even as they go less and less well. I wouldn't be surprised if this conservation is about another case where Annie needs to think through how her recklessness affects people who care about her. I do not think that is a good example. Because in this case Annie went with full support from the adult authorities (Anthony and Jones), and Jones went with her. And Parley would have gone as well, had Eglamore not ordered her to stay behind.
Well, she let Robby write the letter but essentially Paz did take the lead back in Ch. 42 when she was not only making a move toward dating Kat but was quite eloquentwhile doing so. She got to be assertive in Ch. 49 (starting around here) and even got to be heroic while helping Kat in Antimony's absence. Can't help but notice in passing that if Antimonies were out of the picture then Paz would be arguably Kat's greatest protector who isn't a robot. Speaking of robots, why is Paz not angry at them? Kat spends at least as much time with building organic bodies for robots, putting herself in danger because a)it is forbidden by the Court b)she is assisting a couple pursuing a relationship that is also forbidden by the Court, and c)all that Torn Sea business was purely a consequence of Kat's work, not of anything Annie did.
Seems like a perfectly valid reason to want to be somewhere else... Hey now. We have no clue the extent of how threatening Paz could be. Maybe she suggested that incineration would be the least of their problems if they don't help out.:-) This should work on lots of teenage girls. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 8, 2020 23:24:01 GMT
Okay, so first of all, to all the people who are arguing about some sort of meaningless, irrelevant drama between Paz and Annie or whatever, I have a very important message: shut the hell up. None of that matters, no way, nuh-uh, I refuse to devote even one brain cell more to speculating about it, and you should too. Instead, you should join me, imaginaryfriend, migrantworker, antiyonder, and a few others in carefully analyzing the most important part of this page.
What is that, you ask? BECKY GROUND, MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE FREAKING SERIES, IS BAAAACCCCCKKKKKKK!!!!!! AFTER LITERALLY YEARS OF NO APPEARANCES, SHE'S *FINALLY* BACK!!!!!!
And MAN did she come back with a BANG! This has got to be her most prominent appearance yet, with not one, or two, but THREE (count 'em, THREE) panels in ONE PAGE. AND SHE'S NOT EVEN IN A CROWD! She's only got two other people next to her, which is practically unheard of, and possibly why she's looking so uncomfortable. As it is, she's disturbingly close to being in the foreground of this whole scene, which goes against the very core of her nature. Dear, sweet, Becky, be not afraid, for surely the fame and glory you shall win with this appearance of yours will be worth the heavy awkwardness of supporting Paz on her confrontational mission.
Plus, she has her friend Hazel (that's just a nickname I use, obviously, her full name is actually Unnamed Brown-Haired Girl, according to 100% canon sources I will not be linking to) to help her out! Hazel's lack of appearances up to this point has been almost as tragic as Becky's, really, I think she's a great supporting character and she's always deserved more. And now we get to see her with actual prominent FACIAL EXPRESSIONS, over the course of three panels! Wow! Go get 'em Hazel! I'll bet Annie feels pretty intimidated with that accusing glare on her!
The best part is? We'll probably get to see Becky & Hazel in EVEN MORE CONSECUTIVE PAGES AFTER THIS!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH HOLY CRAP gosh golly gosh golly MGOM IM SO EXCITED I CANT STOP SPEAKING IN ALL CAPS AADASLKFASHGLAISDUG
*ahem* calmed down now. Mostly. Anyway, for those of you who are tragically ignorant of the Epic Saga of Becky Ground (and shame on you for that), here's the wiki page on her, which also has some links in the List of Appearances section so you can read the incredible saga all over again. |
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Post by todd on Jan 9, 2020 0:14:59 GMT
I think it's worth remembering that from the beginning Kat didn't want Annie to meet with Loup, citing the danger of doing so. Not only did Annie ignore those concerns, when things went wrong, she never acknowledged that Kat was right, but on the contrary continued down a path that involves more interactions with Loup even as they go less and less well. I wouldn't be surprised if this conservation is about another case where Annie needs to think through how her recklessness affects people who care about her. It was dangerous and reckless, true - but Annie's the only person who'd have some hope of negotiating with him. I suspect that if they sent anyone else into the woods to negotiate with him, the results would be even worse. And I doubt that the Court has any other plan for Loup other than diplomacy - at least, if it did, it would have used it by now. If the "Letting Annie speak with Loup is too dangerous" people were to offer an alternative plan, it'd help their case better. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 9, 2020 1:03:03 GMT
Becky and the Basics feat. Paz? see attachment  |
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Post by madjack on Jan 9, 2020 1:22:22 GMT
Missed opportunity for Becky and the Jets.
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Post by jda on Jan 9, 2020 4:18:59 GMT
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 9, 2020 7:42:29 GMT
So if not for concern that Kat is in trouble, would it be likely that Court Annie would be eager for a fight? You know roast the lackeys and prove she can snap Paz like a twig?:-)
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 9, 2020 10:46:45 GMT
Clearly that must have been Antimony's fault somehow, too.
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Post by alevice on Jan 9, 2020 14:35:10 GMT
To be honest, Paz might not have the physical skills, but her animal talk skills can make her a good lead to have her own animal army to swarm the Annies, who might hesistate to roast said animals.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 9, 2020 15:06:49 GMT
To be honest, Paz might not have the physical skills, but her animal talk skills can make her a good lead to have her own animal army to swarm the Annies, who might hesistate to roast said animals. And more intelligent animals are afraid of fire anyway. |
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Post by rosesonthewall on Jan 9, 2020 15:45:14 GMT
I was kind of struck by Paz calling the Annies, "Antimony". It felt formal.
(I'm sure someone will dig out their past interactions and see how they've addressed each other before!)
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 9, 2020 16:31:18 GMT
So if not for concern that Kat is in trouble, would it be likely that Court Annie would be eager for a fight? You know roast the lackeys and prove she can snap Paz like a twig?:-) Dunno if "eager" is the word I'd choose but in absence of any easy way to resolve conflict or defuse Paz-aggression, or a semi-decent relationship with family for support while just enduring, I figure Courtnie might possibly be a bit more likely than Fannie to just respond to aggression with more aggression. I think the Antimonies are sympathetic to Paz, though, and will try to 1. reason with Paz and if that fails 2. ride out the storm. Pretty sure Paz won't let them. They'll either have to make some sort of concession that Paz can use to declare victory or escalate the drama. A character who isn't an Antimony might do something else with a better chance of success, though. That might deserve its own thread. |
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Post by Runningflame on Jan 9, 2020 20:48:11 GMT
Sure they could have tried to force Kat to spend more time with Paz or something, but given Antimonies' people skills that might have backfired. I now kinda hope that "trying to force Kat to spend more time with Paz" is the Annies' response after this conversation, and that it does backfire spectacularly. I'll bring the popcorn. Annies:"what do you mean with 'all this'?" Paz gestures vaguely to a computer showing the chapters page of gunnerkrigg.com: "We didn't have Minotaurs and ghosts and visits by all powerful gods and grand theft cruise ship with kidnapping of an entire year's worth of children my robots before you joined...At least not to the same degree." "None of this ever happened at my old school!" ... if she'd decided from the beginning to mind her own business and simply tell Anya or Jones every time she saw something weird, then let them take care of it... Well, she did try telling adults about stuff at first. Although she didn't know Anja or Jones at that time. And we've mentioned before how Jones encouraged her to investigate the Jeanne situation herself (though, rereading that page, I am reminded that Annie was not inclined to be forthcoming, either). |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 9, 2020 22:11:54 GMT
Sure they could have tried to force Kat to spend more time with Paz or something, but given Antimonies' people skills that might have backfired. I now kinda hope that "trying to force Kat to spend more time with Paz" is the Annies' response after this conversation, and that it does backfire spectacularly. I'll bring the popcorn. Initially I pictured something like, Come on now, be girlfriends again. BE GIRLFRIENDS!!!...but then I remembered that was Kat. The Antimonies may be less artful but they may plan a much more elaborate scheme. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 10, 2020 1:38:05 GMT
I now kinda hope that "trying to force Kat to spend more time with Paz" is the Annies' response after this conversation, and that it does backfire spectacularly. I'll bring the popcorn. Initially I pictured something like, Come on now, be girlfriends again. BE GIRLFRIENDS!!!...but then I remembered that was Kat. The Antimonies may be less artful but they may plan a much more elaborate scheme. She yet has to top "being teleported into an old bunker and having to collaborate to survive while crashing through the floor and fighting water monsters". |
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Post by DonDueed on Jan 10, 2020 2:29:52 GMT
Okay, so first of all, to all the people who are arguing about some sort of meaningless, irrelevant drama between Paz and Annie or whatever, I have a very important message: shut the hell up. None of that matters, no way, nuh-uh, I refuse to devote even one brain cell more to speculating about it, and you should too. Instead, you should join me, imaginaryfriend , migrantworker , antiyonder , and a few others in carefully analyzing the most important part of this page.
What is that, you ask? BECKY GROUND, MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE FREAKING SERIES, IS BAAAACCCCCKKKKKKK!!!!!! AFTER LITERALLY YEARS OF NO APPEARANCES, SHE'S *FINALLY* BACK!!!!!!
And MAN did she come back with a BANG! This has got to be her most prominent appearance yet, with not one, or two, but THREE (count 'em, THREE) panels in ONE PAGE. AND SHE'S NOT EVEN IN A CROWD!
I'm so disappointed in you, mturtle7. Are you really this ignorant, or just spouting Fake News (tm)? You of all people should know perfectly well that THREE'S A CROWD! |
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Post by antiyonder on Jan 10, 2020 2:32:54 GMT
Dunno if "eager" is the word I'd choose but in absence of any easy way to resolve conflict or defuse Paz-aggression, or a semi-decent relationship with family for support while just enduring, I figure Courtnie might possibly be a bit more likely than Fannie to just respond to aggression with more aggression. I think the Antimonies are sympathetic to Paz, though, and will try to 1. reason with Paz and if that fails 2. ride out the storm. Pretty sure Paz won't let them. They'll either have to make some sort of concession that Paz can use to declare victory or escalate the drama. A character who isn't an Antimony might do something else with a better chance of success, though. That might deserve its own thread. I mean Courtnie instantly smiled when describing that she'd be able to snap Paz like a twig, with Fannie after scolding herself smiled and agreed she could too. |
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Post by zimmyhoo on Jan 10, 2020 3:42:44 GMT
Is it just me, or is that Annie text bubble pink?
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Post by Gotolei on Jan 10, 2020 4:24:14 GMT
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Post by Darkfeather21 on Jan 10, 2020 4:56:59 GMT
Huh. That is so subtle, I never even noticed it. |
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Post by worldsong on Jan 10, 2020 8:59:13 GMT
I get the feeling that Paz is rather quick to put all the blame on Annie because a) Annie is a prominent figure in her life due to her relation with Kat, and b) Annie does often get involved with all the strange stuff that's going on.
The problem is that neither of these things necessarily appoint Annie as being the real issue. As Kat pointed out when Annie felt guilty after Red accused her of being a manipulative and overall terrible person, it's easy to throw accusations when you don't know all the details or you just want to have someone to blame. And Annie is good-natured enough that you can get her to accept your accusations out of guilt regardless of the accuracy of said accusations.
Not very pleased with Paz right now.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 10, 2020 13:21:40 GMT
I was kind of struck by Paz calling the Annies, "Antimony". It felt formal. (I'm sure someone will dig out their past interactions and see how they've addressed each other before!) She called her "Annie" the last time they spoke on-panel. |
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