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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 4, 2019 8:09:08 GMT
Okay, I'm going to take a few minutes to study this one and see if I am sure I know what's happening. |
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Post by madjack on Nov 4, 2019 8:10:47 GMT
Oh hey. It's the chapter icon.
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Post by Eily on Nov 4, 2019 8:13:21 GMT
Ok, calling it, that's not Coyote, that's just a message. "Please consider what you might be able to do with my *wink* other *wink* gift"
And back to Loup "Go get that lake water right now and don't try to keep it or use it against me or I swear I'll destroy you and your little dog !"
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fjodorii
Full Member
It just does, ok?
Posts: 134
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Post by fjodorii on Nov 4, 2019 8:13:36 GMT
what a beautiful page. And could it really be that easy to get rid of Loup? I find that hard to believe.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 4, 2019 8:14:54 GMT
Right. So, I'm guessing from the "bah" that "Loup" did see something that he couldn't figure out in the last comic. I'll make my official guess at this point that it's Diego's arrow's effect on the ownership contract that morphed into the familiar relationship.
...Not surprised a gift brought Coyote back, but it's way too early...
Maybe Coyote's only temporarily back so that he can exposit some things.
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Post by arf on Nov 4, 2019 8:15:12 GMT
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Post by arkadi on Nov 4, 2019 8:19:19 GMT
Wow, that was quick. I thought it would take both the goose bone and the lake water.
Though, seeing as we see Coyote bursting from Loup (instead of e.g. , Loup separating into Coyote and Ysengrim) maybe this is... not permanent? And they need the lake water to make it stick and get C&Y back? Boy, I sure hope Coyote has some useful explanation to give...
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Post by madjack on Nov 4, 2019 8:19:53 GMT
Ok, calling it, that's not Coyote, that's just a message. "Please consider what you might be able to do with my *wink* other *wink* gift" Fairly good odds the bottom of the panel is a visual metaphor for 'mind blown'. Coyote's memories must be a bit much for him. A message would make sense, especially if Loup was incapacitated while it was delivered and has no memory of it himself. No explanation for the last page, It's possible he was seeing looking at Court!Annie and seeing the power of the goose bone? |
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Post by aquamafia on Nov 4, 2019 8:23:08 GMT
Top tier "just a prank bro" move from Coyote if this is real
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Post by csj on Nov 4, 2019 8:23:18 GMT
all he ever wanted was a Scooby Snack
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Post by mudmaniac on Nov 4, 2019 8:40:10 GMT
So Loup ate something that disagreed with him, and now he has a splitting headache.
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Post by somebunny on Nov 4, 2019 8:52:09 GMT
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Post by philman on Nov 4, 2019 9:03:26 GMT
Hey, it's that guy!
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Nov 4, 2019 9:08:19 GMT
So Loup saw something in there that disagreed with him SO much, that he jumped out of the Annie-phone in a bad mood, and angrily asked for the bone, knowing full well Coyote might be playing some tricks on it? What's Annie hiding in that hair? Where does it connect to? Why is it so damn BRIGHT!?
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Post by csj on Nov 4, 2019 9:12:56 GMT
So Loup ate something that disagreed with him, and now he has a splitting headache. *dissociates disrespectfully* |
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Post by coastal on Nov 4, 2019 9:35:48 GMT
Well, well. "Give a dog a bone"...
(Sorry, someone had to say it)
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Post by Eily on Nov 4, 2019 10:21:29 GMT
I would also like to add: go away Coyote, that's Ysengrin's body. You just provided a patch (in most meanings of the word) that made the software start to completely misbehave. And we (I?) want him back more than you. Assuming this is indeed just a message, that would mean Coyote knew the bone would be brought back before the water. Either he made sure somehow that this would happen (maybe it's actually running water, and it hid itself), or he was confident enough about it. Maybe he read Tom's notes, or made a deal with him. Top tier "just a prank bro" move from Coyote if this is real Not sure if Tom is ever going to be explicit about that but with creatures regularily attacking the Court, I expect there has been some human casualties because of this conflict, and we know for sure that some wisps died. Not that Coyote really seemed to care if his jokes made anyone but himself laugh, but this has gone quite beyond what anyone else would call a prank. |
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Post by arkadi on Nov 4, 2019 10:30:01 GMT
I would also like to add: go away Coyote, that's Ysengrin's body. You just provided a patch (in most meanings of the word) that made the software start to completely misbehave. And we (I?) want him back more than you. Assuming this is indeed just a message, that would mean Coyote knew the bone would be brought back before the water. Either he made sure somehow that this would happen (maybe it's actually running water, and it hid itself), or he was confident enough about it. Maybe he read Tom's notes, or made a deal with him. Top tier "just a prank bro" move from Coyote if this is real Not sure if Tom is ever going to be explicit about that but with creatures regularily attacking the Court, I expect there has been some human casualties because of this conflict, and we know for sure that some wisps died. Not that Coyote really seemed to care if his jokes made anyone but himself laugh, but this has gone quite beyond what anyone else would call a prank. It's possible that both the water and the bone were "programmed" to have this effect if they were used first, and a different one in case the other thing had been used before. I'm sure that wouldn't be beyond Coyote's power. |
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Post by bicarbonat on Nov 4, 2019 12:27:34 GMT
If this "test" (which, by the way, Loup seems to be cheating at by not doing the legwork - not that he cares) culminates in Coyote reasserting his existence, having finished experiencing death/defeat/a tour of the digestive tract, I'm going to laugh myself hoarse. Alright, the last part hasn't been confirmed yet, so a chuckle will have to do for now. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Nov 4, 2019 14:28:51 GMT
*brushes dust off my keyboard*
GUESS WHO’S BACK, BACK AGAIN...
*preens* See, this was a cunning trick all along, haHAha! To make the audience appreciate me, in comparison to that OTHER technicolor idiot.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 4, 2019 14:33:51 GMT
How did Eglamore get in Loup's skull? Must be a Protector power. Weird, but okay. Seriously though, that's a pretty alarming entrance. I'm guessing it's a message from Coyote, but the twins and Rey won't hear it, over their combined "Aaah! Aaah! His head! Aaaah!" |
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Post by netherdan on Nov 4, 2019 15:05:59 GMT
So the bone is the memory that he is Coyote and the water is him...
Calling it: he won't be able to split / jump out of that shell and have his own body before getting the water and will be having constant personality changes until so
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 4, 2019 15:16:23 GMT
So she threw the dog a bone? what a beautiful page. And could it really be that easy to get rid of Loup? I find that hard to believe. Probably no. But it looks like now he will randomly remember that oh, right, he always was Coyote. |
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Post by hp on Nov 4, 2019 15:26:55 GMT
Assuming this is indeed just a message, that would mean Coyote knew the bone would be brought back before the water. Either he made sure somehow that this would happen (maybe it's actually running water, and it hid itself), or he was confident enough about it. Maybe he read Tom's notes, or made a deal with him. I don't think he improvises or that there's any space for chance in his plan... Coyote is an old trickster god. Even if he's not omniscient (and according to his "secret", for him to be omniscient, he just needed people to believe he is) he certainly knows enough about humans, forest dwellers, the Court, and the specific beings involved in his plan to know how everything will play out.
He surely has been pulling strings from the start. He's giving away specific pieces of himself. He's been taking selected memories from Ysengrim. He waited until after Annie's gang took out Jeanne to give his strenght to Y (which provoked the whole current situation). I've called it before, but his plan seems to be a very complex " Batman Gambit" ("A plan that revolves entirely around people doing exactly what you'd expect them to do"). At most a " Xanatos Gambit" (when there's space for different outcomes depending on your marks' actions, but all of those outcomes benefit you and you can't lose). Take your example, about the order in which Loup would get the gifts back. He got the bone back first because the giant tree stopped the kids from getting to the water, while the bone wasn't so deep into it. The trees came from seeds Ysengrim dropped in the court and the arm from the robot he sent back (coyote had already been manipulating his behaviour for a while). Both the water and Ys "vegetable powers" came from Coyote. Even if the order Loup get the gifts back does matter, it can be traced back to Coyote (I bet he could even plan how the tree would interact with each of his gifts).
My guess is, he foresaw and planned everything to the last bit. Ysengrim getting angry, eating him after getting his strenght, both turning into Loup, the start of the war, how things will play out, what the endgame will look like. Even if someone manages to "thwart" his plan, that will be exactly what he wanted. In the end he'll be back and say to Annie, "that was fun!".
That is his nature as a trickster god, it can't "not be it"
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Post by MarineMonarch on Nov 4, 2019 15:37:38 GMT
Yeah, I ain't believing that's Coyote. I know Tom likes to jerk us around but that would be an anti-climax, and not even in a good way. Besides, if we got Coyote back now then what'd be the point of the lake water?
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Post by jda on Nov 4, 2019 15:47:04 GMT
MINDBLOWN
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Post by shadow3 on Nov 4, 2019 15:55:09 GMT
I feel like we just skipped a page in the story flow...
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Post by Eily on Nov 4, 2019 16:12:33 GMT
Assuming this is indeed just a message, that would mean Coyote knew the bone would be brought back before the water. Either he made sure somehow that this would happen (maybe it's actually running water, and it hid itself), or he was confident enough about it. Maybe he read Tom's notes, or made a deal with him. I don't think he improvises or that there's any space for chance in his plan... Coyote is an old trickster god. Even if he's not omniscient (and according to his "secret", for him to be omniscient, he just needed people to believe he is) he certainly knows enough about humans, forest dwellers, the Court, and the specific beings involved in his plan to know how everything will play out.
He surely has been pulling strings from the start. He's giving away specific pieces of himself. He's been taking selected memories from Ysengrim. He waited until after Annie's gang took out Jeanne to give his strenght to Y (which provoked the whole current situation). I've called it before, but his plan seems to be a very complex " Batman Gambit" ("A plan that revolves entirely around people doing exactly what you'd expect them to do"). At most a " Xanatos Gambit" (when there's space for different outcomes depending on your marks' actions, but all of those outcomes benefit you and you can't lose). Take your example, about the order in which Loup would get the gifts back. He got the bone back first because the giant tree stopped the kids from getting to the water, while the bone wasn't so deep into it. The trees came from seeds Ysengrim dropped in the court and the arm from the robot he sent back (coyote had already been manipulating his behaviour for a while). Both the water and Ys "vegetable powers" came from Coyote. Even if the order Loup get the gifts back does matter, it can be traced back to Coyote (I bet he could even plan how the tree would interact with each of his gifts).
My guess is, he foresaw and planned everything to the last bit. Ysengrim getting angry, eating him after getting his strenght, both turning into Loup, the start of the war, how things will play out, what the endgame will look like. Even if someone manages to "thwart" his plan, that will be exactly what he wanted. In the end he'll be back and say to Annie, "that was fun!".
That is his nature as a trickster god, it can't "not be it"
I do agree that Coyote's involvement there is at least partially a Batman Gambit (that's the "or he was confident enough about it" part of my message). But I really don't agree with your statement that Coyote planned everything. First, because we already have an example of him changing is plan and adapting to the situation: he initially tried to pass his powers to Renard and get killed by him. He switched to Ysengrin when it turned out to be a dead end. His ultimate goal might still be for Renard to get his powers (by having Renard take Loup/Ysengrin's body for example), but it shows that he doesn't use his power to fix an absolute path for events. Second, such a gambit would be the opposite of what we know of his motivations, he wants to avoid being all knowing, and wants to discover stories. If his death is temporary, I'm pretty sure he'd consider knowing exactly what would happen and how the world would be for his return very useless and boring. This also rules out a full Xanatos gambit: if Coyote's goal is to be surprised by the turn of events, he does win no matter what happens, but he didn't plan every outcome, he's just there to enjoy the show. Third, from a meta point of view, a Batman gambit from an all powerful, and potentially all knowing god isn't really good storytelling. Basically, what makes Gunnerkrigg work as a story is that although Coyote was virtually unstoppable and could have just bent the world to his will (as far as we know, maybe the problem that Loup is encountering with the Forest is the reason Coyote stayed relatively neutral), he didn't, because the story requires that he has at least some limitation, which here seems to be that he is (was?) just not interested in taking over. So I'd expect he put some elements to stir the story in the right direction but didn't control everything. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Nov 4, 2019 18:08:03 GMT
Yeah, I agree with the "that's not really Coyote" idea. We're seeing a representation of Coyote, because Loup just got a blinding Coyote flashback.
"Ceci n'est pas une Coyote."
I also suspect that all of this artifact gathering is leading up to the actual Coyote returning. Loup may be too random, impulsive and unstable to realize that he is demanding his own destruction.
Chances are, the exact details of "bone vs. water" don't matter. When he returns, Coyote can always claim retroactively that it was part of his plan all along.
Anthropically, the world needs Coyote to return (because Loup is making a hash of it), and so he will.
****
Coyote probably hates Calvinism.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 4, 2019 18:38:04 GMT
I don't think Coyote planned everything. I just don't think that enough of his plan has been undone that he's back permanently... yet.
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