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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 7, 2008 20:06:54 GMT
Ahh, but don't forget she mentions when saying she saw the guides that they were "hidden from the hospital staff," meaning she might have asked staff closer to hand (ie a nurse or nearby doctor) instead of waiting to talk to her parents of this, and, she does say she didn't really make friends with Muut until after talking to her mother. It could be that Surma told her only they two could see them, which means she might have saw it as something they shared and not involved her father at all. Maybe but like I said before, in order to suggest that you have to introduce the possibility of new events that neutralize things that have appeared in the comic that suggest the exact opposite conclusion. If we engage in that there is absolutely nothing that we do know about GC, or anything we even can know. The comic is the comic, other than what Tom says about the comic we have to go by what's in the comic. While we should be careful not to leap to conclusions that the comic doesn't support we shouldn't ignore what the context leads us to believe either. It doesn't actually require a conspiracy, by the way, as much as it does Anthony being secretive about what he does... Now, since no one knows what he's working on, and he specifically won't tell them, they're free to speculate, but such mysteries, left on their own, tend to stagnate, and it's eventually accepted as a personality quirk. Add the social pressure of a majority opinion to silence objections (ala Mezz's ref to the Donlans) and I'd say that what you've just described falls into the category of a conspiracy, albeit an unconscious one. I think the trendy term is "spiral of silence" if you'd rather I say it that way. Still, there are possibilities enough we can't discount he MIGHT have been a caring, decent father. Here's where I should expand and clarify my earlier remarks! I never said that Anthony didn't care about Antimony or that he was an bad or indecent person, though we can't yet rule him out as either of those. I do think it's inarguable that he has a "bad rep" around GC from the reactions of people who know him. That much is mentioned in passing in the comic summary in the Wizard article. While we don't know the sum total of exactly what his bad reputation is, emotional unavailability has been a running theme that is strongly supported by Antimony's current situation: Anthony appears to have made arrangements for Antimony's care but didn't bother to inform her or say goodbye when he left. That brings us to an area where we both seem to agree at least a little. Anthony's bad reputation could have started by a "lone wolf" or "loose cannon" attitude. I'm inclined to think that's what's actually happened though again we have to explain away Antimony's current situation for only that to be the case. Still, considering people grieving can become more withdrawn, you could say that he was just misunderstood before but became emotionally unavailable during Surma's illness and death. It seems more reasonable to just say that it's always been part of his personality to one degree or other; that interpretation seems to fit the story. This might be something that Tom would clarify in the "questions" thread. I find it more fun to write bookishly long posts and try to induct/speculate but if anyone's curious you can always ask. I would suggest something carefully worded so that answering wouldn't reveal any future plot, such as, "Would it be fair to characterize Anthony's usual parenting style as emotionally withdrawn or stoic?" Remember, there will probably be a tearful father/daughter reunion at some point and even the most repressed humans are emotional occasionally, so the question will have to be tailored with that in mind. Now, whilst hospitals don't really have set mealtimes, it's most likely their meals would try to bring them together. If Anthony works in the day (which is a real possibility) he probably does turn in to get as much sleep as he can to be rested to continue his work, which is likely tiring. Maybe, but as a doctor there you'd think he'd have enough pull for Surma's room to have one or two chairs (at the very least) if he was spending any time there. The fancy-bed version of Surma's room suggests that the furniture can be/was modified but visitors weren't in mind when that was done. Just as an aside, I think it was answered in the Questions thread that the Donlans weren't informed about Surma's condition. Perhaps Surma didn't want to trouble them with worry or be pitied but Anthony, were he warm and caring, would probably want Surma's last days to be surrounded with friends, right? And whilst Antimony and Kat are following the same course, they seem to be going farther along then their mothers did, perhaps because of "tools" and knowledge their mothers passed on to them, or just that circumstances are different (ie Shadow2's involvement, which connected Robot, and lead to the need for a new robot body). I never said that it would be exactly the same but there is a symmetry that I expect will continue. Apply that expectation to a meta analysis of the Surma-Eggers-Anthony triangle and we get a prediction that Antimony will be attracted to a lone wolf (NOT Reynard) of her own. I must say I'm surprised that my identification of Eggers as the good boy of the two was controversial earlier; the bad rep alone tags Anthony as the "bad boy."
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Boxbot
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Le robot terrible.
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Post by Boxbot on Sept 8, 2008 14:38:27 GMT
Introducing what possibilities? She mentions the hospital staff, and later her mother tells them only they two can see them. Since her mother was giving her her education whilst at Good Hope (Mentioned) it's easy to determine that she likely didn't talk to her father about it, since she'd know from her mother he couldn't see them.
Mezz's reference is to a small objection to stop James from further badmouthing a friend of theirs, who also happens to be Antimony's father. It is, after all, both very rude, and something he still has strong emotional feelings about. It could be that the Donlans actually don't have as strong an emotional feeling about Anthony, although they do shows strong signs or pity for Antimony when telling her he can't be reached. That doesn't really show a conpiracy, or even a majority opinion on Anthony, which James and Jones's comment's aren't either, really. It's just theories that could help explain what we're seeing. I don't feel that a "conpiracy," really explains anything we're seeing, in regards that everyone has to be lying for Anthony to have set personality patterns. In the theoretical examples I'm showing, it's possible for him to be misconstrued by people as being something other then he is. Also, i don't see how Surma's popularity has anything to do with knowing Anthony - The flashback to the warehouse shows fairly adult Surma still with James, and Coyote still thinks of James and Surma as the couple, showing that her marriage to Anthony is something likely to have happened before she stopped talking to people at the Court. Tom says that those from the Court "don't know where she went when she left," and we're not sure how long she left before being in the hospital. All I'm trying to say is that characterizing him ANY way doesn't have enough support to be solid. We don't know what he's doing right now, or how long he expected it to take - With so much about him unknown, any sort of theory on his behavior is based on circumstancial evidence, and that's all I'm trying to say. I'm certainly not seeing him as Father of the Year, but there's not enough evidence (beyond heresay) to say anything about him.
Maybe the room does have chairs. We see very little of her room, and there are slight differences each time. Adding in the lack of other people moving around, and the hospital seems almost empty whenever she's there: just her mother and the psychopomps. This seems most likely to be stylistically done since they're memories. Besides, exactly why would she need chairs?
Again, the question of why they weren't told comes up. The Donlan's might not come because she didn't want them to know what was going on, and her husband respected that decision. There's too much unknown to support any olne idea.
Well, Anthony's bad rep shows him as the "bad boy" NOW, but this rep is based on heresay of a minority, one of which admits to riling Antimony up, the other of which has sharp emotional feelings about Anthony. As for when they were kids. . . Anthony's rep also points him towards being a quiet science nerd, whilst James was the athletic one training to fight. That's not exactly typical for the good boy/bad boy ideas. We don't even know how involved the triangle was - was Anthony always trying for her heart, or did Surma just leave James for Anthony with no real explaining? What WAS their youth and adolesence like at the Court? We don't know. And theories at this point, have no real basis for a strong support, which is probably what Tom wants. They seem minor points nowadays, but could easilly grow to be of mass importance later.
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Grey
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Gray Goo
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Post by Grey on Sept 20, 2008 15:53:46 GMT
Hey! Dream topic! Well, little off-topic, but anyway. On last night i meeting some characters from Gunnerkrigg court. I just summoned them and keep smalltalk. Nothing special, except that it was lucid dream and pretty long one. Not still long enough to summon character more then from two webcomics, and not even all characters from them.
Anyway, from GC i summoned Antimony and Kat. For them i intruduced being Dream lord (nothing new, i doing it often in dreams). Yes, still lucid dream. Also Surma become summoned. Through, vision was pretty blurry, but how can be anyway drawed characters clear for us, real beings?
Also, i meet Zimmy too (and i did even summon her). Or i thinking she was Zimmy (but not sure for certain reason). She was without Gamma, so i tried summon her, knowing that Zimmy needs her. Through i failed. Reason for why i was not sure if this one was Zimmy, was her reaction for me. Ermh, she kisses me O__o
We both like raining and in dreams i have some demonic features, like acidic blood and heat resistance (doesn't not include clothes through). Still are all Zimmy-looking Zimmy? At least, she was not twisted creature which tried laying some larvas through of my throat.. Hm.. Maybe i could asking from Zimmy itself that where she was at last night?..
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Post by agasa on Sept 20, 2008 18:23:30 GMT
Uh, she kisses you? well, you're the Dream Lord, you can do people what you want as long as they're in your dream, maybe you softened her up a little! We will see if this is the case when the currently-made comics goes up, in three months, maybe ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) . A question: was her in her usual dirty uniform-pointy teethed-no eyes attire or was she more...human like? Maybe you contacted her inner self, free of her usual problem while with you. That's probably why you could not summon Gamma, you were doing the job instead of her for the occasion. Ask her some more the next time. Also, it's not true that cartoons cannot be seen clearly in dreams: you must have a single, clear shot of them in mind and you will be able to do that. Actually, a good half of my drawing abilities stemmed from the after my first (and so far, only) lucid dream. Gray, do you have some special way to induce lucid dreams? To turn a normal dream in a lucid one? please, if you do, tell me. EDIT: (I know this reply seems written by a crackpot who actually believes in a sort of real connection between dreamer and dreamed of, on a mystical level. This is not the case, guys, i'm not insane, but it's easy, natural and something like poetic to think this once you've experienced something like that.)
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Grey
New Member
Gray Goo
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Post by Grey on Sept 21, 2008 16:20:50 GMT
She was pretty like we know her. Just look like blur like everything else in that dream. Hm, maybe i just forget my eyeglasses. Or have bad bandwidth so image becomes blur. It can happen, really. I have even seeing dreams which uses 4 bits color mode O__o And other one in colours of old Apple. Mostly blue in black.
Anyway, Zimmy was Zimmy and then i thinking, i notices in very begin of dream strong feeling of safety. Something dark still was very outside, but i know that it cannot come in. Through after finding my Dream control area, or something, i give just in case order that if anything unnice starting happen, dream must be shutdown. Nothing fatal unnice happened (actually, i fixed some things within characters from another webcomic).
So, maybe Zimmy was arrived into very safely place. How she comes without any summoning, well, maybe i just forget "door" open.. hm..
Ah, but that about my lucid dreams. I usually don't do anything special. I just gaining them. Short or long lucid dreams. Short are mostly complaining about things in dreams. Like last time i complaining then it is always so hard find.. *ahem* any woman from my dreams. Usually only illusions which are really.. hm.. flesh eater flowers, or something like that O__o.
So i am natural lucid dreamer, and my dreams also has certain type of continuity. Yep, things are rarely totally random. Especially if i have some memories from certain place, but those places can also change like kind of illusion are being fading away. Characters can be recognized and monsters.
Also my abilities stays same, and usually my look too. Bodyshifting changes them of course mostly. Yep, in Reynardine style. Except i don't need eyes. Just traveling like astral being, and snatching one. Alive or death, headness or headLESS. I just grow new head ^^ Hm, hey! Idea! Maybe i next time trying snatch whole world O__O
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Post by monkeysmurklins on Sept 21, 2008 17:29:43 GMT
Wow, I wish I could lucid dream. It sounds really cool, you're lucky, Grey. I had a dream the other night where I met an entire family with eyes like Zimmy's, and on closer inspection there were little parasites living in them that looked liked the lizard creature from the Ghost Story chapter. Water rinsed the parasites out temporarily. They also had a fish tank and lived in a little house in a zoo, surrounded by monkeys and a moat.
So, I guess it was interesting, yeah.
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Grey
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Gray Goo
Posts: 22
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Post by Grey on Sept 22, 2008 14:08:35 GMT
Not luck, but feelings. In dreams you barely have any memories that you are, and your consciousness is little.. offline. I have been noticing that i gain short lucid if i wake up some of my feelings. Sadness or any aspect of it for me does trick. For somebody else something else can do trick. Feeling just must be something important. Something which has great part or your life. Then you remember small part of you, you know you are in dream. Or at least i thinking its happen in this way. Ah, and dreams. Well, battles in classroom against pile of rotten flesh creature. Pretty weak through, because i was doing heavy damage by bare hands. Battle leaves headless corpse, and some larvas. Many small and one large, different and very nasty looking. Teachers comment was that head looks like it is teared. I did not admit that i teared it (i was kind of vampire itself, hm). Nope, did not end in this. Another problems comes then i need washing my hands, and i noticed that water would be bad. This creature can grow from water, so i contact to cleaner and asking something strong disinfect liquid. First cleaner just point to store, but i noticed i don't know any good liquid, so cleaner help me. Just pretty simple cleaner pours some liquid on me, and i was very happy about it. Like Zimmy in rain, errrr. After this i meet again that rotten thing, without head. Through, because i was in storeroom, i just starting pour any liquid through of it neck. After one scant canister and several others (i was thinking was its good idea mix all those stuff). Fleshy thing just die from poisoning after moment. Ah, and few moments later i wake up into another dream. Not sure where i was, but thinking it is kind of hospital. More like rafter it look like. I was not in too good condition. I was dizzy and every places hurts. Also i noticed then i moving, somewhere comes strange blood. Like blood which have been standing place a moment (yep, liquid and red small flakes). Especially hurtful was coming down. Through, i did not have time to thinking how much that hurt, because after me was several guys in black. Like ninjas. Even in bad condition i chase away some of them and arrive at corridor. It has several doors on it walls. One ninja was after me within crossbow. I almost feeling i die now, but still dodged his shot. I running to one of those rooms. Little i trick ninja, so he takes wrong room, which gives to me time. I notices mirror on a room. I inspect it and trying moving through of it. It was not easy, maybe because of my condition, but i succeed and now i was inside of mirror. I moving little aside, into dark part of mirror. Ninja was in room already, but did not find me. After this i just using space on side of mirror and moving away. I set my goal to safe place, and moving in moderate speed. Thinking it is not enough, i set to maxinum speed. Everything was black within blur figures, like fibrics, but in fast move they dissappearing and i reappearing somewhere else. I also remember that i praying help from angels so i can arrive to my goal. From Gabriel at that time especially, even if i knowing Mikael is guardian angel (hm, knowledge which doesn't not easy dissappearing in dreams). Place looking like temple within strange round hole on it floor. And i think tree or something growing on that hole. I climbing through of the tree into upper level, but little before dream ended, i notice somebody on down. Somebody who did not look like too small, so i thinking it was child. Something i saying, but not remember that before i wake up. And, no, this was not last dream on that night ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Actually here was one more where also somebody chasing me. Somebody dark, but i escaped by time, leaving my two company behind. I was in somekind of.. plaza. Modern one inside of building. Also i meeting somebody dark haired woman within eyeglasses. Second time to meet her in dream anyway. She complaining little something about leaving her times ago. I think i apology and she accept it, because we moving together on while. She helps me also to move faster and finally we was outside of this town. Looks mostly like mountain area or something rocky. It also has road within evermoving giant rock O__o Many giant rocks! I snatches my company and turning into roadrunner to gain enough speed bypass those giant rocks. I succeed and appearing in top. Strange top, because its seem like being on a edge of room. Something changes on my person and i starting explaining for this woman things. I telling that i rule this place and i looking at town. It was large. Town, but at same time like world. I telling also that those black areas, black buildings, are places that i don't like much, so i don't looking into them. After this i leaving my crown and nail that strange road on a peak. I saying they stays and waiting for me. I did not see my company anymore, but i feeling she was still here. Just more like spirit. I descend into sea, walking on it and being like like, erm, god O__o Dreams fading, or i teleporting away. Not sure. Anyway i noticed short moment being on my bed, and that somebody standing on my coverlet. Dream still (or not sure, erm). Anyway still feeling passes then this, hmmm, invisible god-self teleporting away. Goal was my homeplace, through still different in look. I just reading something, text which has many repeating parts and one strange long word. I remember small parts from that text. Did not trying remember anyway because they looks too unlogical and boring for me. This paper was folded and backside of it was small comic. Very pretty and unique draw. Black&White comic, where was house on a forest. Not text in that part of page, but two characters comes out of house and for strange reason.. one looks like this my company earlier and one was like me within small beard O__o After this i wakeup finally in real. Yep, i can have in best case multiple dreams in one night. Sadly still, every nice drawing that i see in my dreams, are impossible bring to reality. Too different style for me >.<
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Post by etcetera on Sept 22, 2008 16:01:44 GMT
You have a pretty unusual relationship with your dreams, Grey, if you can write such a huge post about them on a random webcomic forum. Do you have something like a dream journal? You could hit 1000 Pages in little over a week.
Anyway, enjoying lucid dreams myself I felt like sharing one of my stranger experiences: One sleepy Sunday morning I realized I had a lucid dream. I immediately used the awesome opportunity of dream manipulation to have some fun but after a while I decided to stop dreaming, wake up, and do some of the things I had planed for Sunday. Unfortunately, I couldn't. No matter what I tried, I just didn't wake up. There I was, eager to get up but trapped in a dream and fully aware of it. It was frustrating, frightening and hilarious at the same time. Knowing I had to wake up some time soon I sat down in my dream to wait for the end. Every once in a while someone would come and try to talk with me but I just told them to leave me alone. After some boring and irritating moments I eventually drifted back into normal dreaming and woke up shortly after that.
Unfortunately I have not jet dreamed about anything from Gunnerkrigg Court to justify my post in this thread, but I think my trapped-in-a-lucid-dream-experience may be close to what Zimmy, Annie and the others are going through right now in the comic.
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Grey
New Member
Gray Goo
Posts: 22
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Post by Grey on Sept 22, 2008 18:08:12 GMT
Well, i am pretty special dreamer. Always have been. And talking about dreams can make talking too much, because they just are interesting. Or at least my dreams, because has mostly something to tell. If nothing else, then stories and tips. Sometimes my dreams are pretty long too and don't end until i reaching into certain point, and sometimes.. i see dreams which are so strange and dark. These are special which i gained then i find ladders to heaven in one my dream and wake upping into another dream. I liking always searching borders in my dreams and exploring dangerous areas.
But how about stucking into dream? I cannot say that i have been stucked into dream, but still have been in long dreams without desire to end them. Then i was young, i ended through most nightmares by suicidal ways. Within explosives it was also funny. Try nuke and see that happen all those nigthmares :-) At these days i just trying kill those nightmares. Through, i still not been having change try my tentacle form in nightmares. That would be very funny.. for me, not for nightmare ^^
Ah, but anyway. I rarely have wake up problems in dream. I just use willpower to force me awake. Like i noticed, if dream is unnice, i use this way, unless i can fight. Believe me. If i get any kind of weapon, i can be harsh opponent. Also, i am extremy unhealtly to eat. Like in one short lucid, where i was in dark. Somekind of demon eats my head before i get change do anything and starting sucking my entrails through of my neck O__O Almost wakes me up, but i got back and become very angry. I through did not find this demon. I thinking now that i capture body of this demon itself. Like eating it from inside.
Ah, too much things to talking. Still be able to listening? Good ^^ About bodies in dream. Its seem be i have somekind of ability to materialize body. First i need being in some places. Then slowly i starting sensing place then my body forming. Finally i have body and most of my senses. Through, sometimes i can also have only my sight, and maybe my hands. This is pretty strange, but quality of those dreams can be also high. Sometimes i am just really etheric being. This can set strange effects, like then i as dreaming about boring game and noticed that i maybe can try lucid. Then i noticed i did not have body and dream crashes O__O
Hm, forget something? Ah, dream journal. No, i don't have any. I just use my own memory, which can remember many dreams. I just need little reeling it. Anyway, i have some knowledge about dreams. And because its seem this topic is turning into dream topic again, so.. any dream problems within somebody? ^^
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Post by xolejh on Sept 22, 2008 22:50:47 GMT
I have a high tendency to die or otherwise have bad things happen to me in my dreams. I don't control what happens in my dreams. Guns always jam, doors don't open, hallways don't lead to where I thought they would. Sometimes everyone dissappears but me.
Occasionally, if I get a particular wound somewhere in a dream once I wake up that area feels sort of...weird, not sure how to describe it.
I've had bad dreams, known I was dreaming, and been stuck there. For instance, one time I was pushed from a plane into the Grand Canyon(this was the latter half of the dream, the first half was me fighting the people on board...I think you can guess I didn't win), and the whole time my mind was screaming "wake up!!!" but I couldn't, and when I hit the ground everything just turned white for...'m not sure how long. Long enough.
I haven't had any gunnerkrigg dreams yet, but I bet if I thought about it a lot just before getting to sleep I could within a day or two.
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Post by nikita on Sept 28, 2008 0:52:24 GMT
I used to die in a particular dream I had when I was young(er). I would fall of a bridge into a river (no bird's came to help). Then in real life I finished my swimming lessons and the next time I had the dream I fell and I began to think "Uh.. but I can swim now ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) " and so I was completely relaxed while I fell. From that point on, I never had the dream again. Usually my dream in general are just random things mixed together. Like last night I dreamed Gamma had added me as a friend on studivz*. Which is odd - I'm no big fan of Gamma or something and don't like studivz at all. *german quivalent to facebook Sometimes, reality and dream get mixed up when I'm half asleep/awake and get input from reality like the radio playing news or, um, the lecture I'm sitting in. So, sometimes I can't remember actually listening to the news but they somehow still diffused into my mind. btw I wonder whether there is such a thing as lucid dreaming. I mean: How could you possibly tell the difference between having a dream within which you have a lucid dream and having a real lucid dream? But if there's no way to see the difference - are they the same? *writes down more fundamental psychological question*
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2008 2:11:21 GMT
I had another GC-related dream, still not in-comic. Tom was treating everyone in the forum to Greek salad which he was preparing in my parents' kitchen. Everyone's representation was very generic, but I know Mezzaphor was there at least.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 24, 2008 11:29:44 GMT
I'm afraid to ask, but how did you know it was me in your dream?
I haven't had any dreams of salad (Greek or otherwise) that I can remember.
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2008 13:11:07 GMT
I'm afraid to ask, but how did you know it was me in your dream? There were no defining characteristics except for the property of being you. Apparently, knowing (of) you from at least two other forums was enough to give you an identity, while everyone else was just being everyone else. Except for Tom. Tom's Tom.
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Post by Llandaryn on Oct 24, 2008 22:12:00 GMT
Truly, these dreams make for an interesting, if somewhat disturbing, read.
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