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Post by tustin2121 on Jun 17, 2019 15:00:16 GMT
Oh for Pete's sake... How about we just have nine or ten Annies while we're at it? Or, better still, we can just split the timeline a couple hundred times and get a whole tribe of Annie's going!
This is why I hate all-powerful omnipotent characters like Loup invading a story. They can just throw this curveball shit at you out of nowhere with no reason or explaination. I'm done. *walks out and slams door*
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 17, 2019 16:01:04 GMT
I think the current situation(s) is/are the consequences of "Loup" duplicating Antimony; he wanted her to be in two places at once and so caused that to happen but the main point of divergence (where the differences became manifest) between the timelines is the fact that one left the area of frozen time months later than the other. Didn't Courtnie say that she didn't even get to see Loup? She got turned away at the edge of the forest? If neither should be here that means they were both displaced in time somehow... and there should be no reason to do that to Courtnie except the need for her not to see Fannie, which suggests the duplication either happened inside the time distortion field or that "Loup" extended the area of effect. Antimony was heading into the Wood anyway so it would make sense for the split to happen there but "Loup" might have extended the field to save himself a brief wait or just because he can. Same difference either way. What if there isn't a third Annie? What if the two Annies we've been following aren't supposed to be there because they're two halves of the same person? Like instead of Loup creating another Annie, he just split the original Annie into two people? And the only way to fix the timeline is to merge both back into one "Annie". Maybe there's two Antimonies here now and an infinity of Antimonies that are, could have been, or could be. The "correct" one that belongs in this timeline might be the Antimony that would have been here by herself if "Loup" never froze time in the Wood or duplicated her. I'm waiting until I get more info to speculate further. |
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Post by fia on Jun 17, 2019 16:16:26 GMT
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 17, 2019 16:36:26 GMT
Oh for Pete's sake... How about we just have nine or ten Annies while we're at it? Or, better still, we can just split the timeline a couple hundred times and get a whole tribe of Annie's going! Actually, there is a theory of quantum mechanics which suggests that multiple alternate universes should exist. It is a big jump from there to "Into the Annie-Verse," but nine or ten Annies are theoretically possible. Imagine the first page of Gunnerkrigg Court, only "OK, One Last Time. My Name is Antimony Carver..." |
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 17, 2019 16:51:44 GMT
If the two Annies here are not supposed to be, does that mean there are two universes that are missing their Annies? Well technically all three universes (if we are to assume only the three universes at present)are missing their Annies.
Does Annie even exist at this point?
Ow, my brain.
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Post by bedinsis on Jun 17, 2019 17:13:31 GMT
This chapter is shaping up to be my least favorite, but I'll reserve judgment until it is finished.
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Post by jda on Jun 17, 2019 17:20:23 GMT
Interesting out-of-the-square tought: The Tik Toks exist simultaneously in all the "thousand" dimensions, observing their differences. Zimmy/Zimmingham (how I love plots with Zimmy!) is a walking interdimensional portal, where things from other realities can cross interdimensions, where alter-serves can mix, or walk into each other. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 17, 2019 18:23:42 GMT
Theory: Both Annies are from universes where Gunnerkrigg Court (including the forest?) was destroyed during Loup's attack, or the Court counterattacked. Whatever the details may turn out to be, something bad happened to the Annies' timelines.
One of the two Annies is probably Original Recipe Annie. (Forest Annie maybe? She spent the most time with Loup.) One or both of the Annies may have no place to return to.
Why save two? So that the two remaining Annies can still accomplish Loup's task in a world where the artifacts still exist. (And also because Loup thought it would be funny.)
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 17, 2019 18:31:53 GMT
Okay, this time he got us. What if there isn't a third Annie? What if the two Annies we've been following aren't supposed to be there because they're two halves of the same person? Like instead of Loup creating another Annie, he just split the original Annie into two people? And the only way to fix the timeline is to merge both back into one "Annie". Because the Annies we see being two halves of one person would directly contradict Clippy's statement "it seems that you have been shifted out of your timeline and brought here". *puts on tinfoil* Loup has this timeline's Annie, and is holding her hostage/against her will. So, in order not to suspect anything is wrong, he made TWO separate timeline Annies so that if they got killed/hurt, he'd still have HIS Annie that he "loves". He risks nothing but gains everything. Having a third Annie to threaten would work well to get one (or both) of the other Annies to be certain to return to the forest, but it relies on them finding out that they're shifted and neither is supposed to be in this timeline. That seems tricky to arrange them learning, unless he somehow knew Saslamel was going to show up and Clippy would explain it. I do not think Loup would want to use the third Annie as a hostage; rather just to have a spare (if she is put on ice), or to have her there as his loving companion. But seriously, also because yet another Annie that does not know anything and has to be filled in would be tiresome reading, I have the nagging feeling that this timeline's Annie is dead. |
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Post by machiavelli33 on Jun 17, 2019 18:35:11 GMT
Nobody tell Anthony. The man is suspended by a deeply-concealed single thread when it comes to losing firehead girls. Or DO. Get him to go mid-era Harrison Ford on Loup. "Bring back my WIFE. My FAMILY." |
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Post by antiyonder on Jun 17, 2019 19:41:46 GMT
Actually haven't had enough reason to think back to the Spider-Man Clone Saga for awhile. Is there ever enough reason? *rimshot* |
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Post by Runningflame on Jun 17, 2019 20:28:40 GMT
Oh no. Ohh-ho-ho no. 
This is Tom's face right now.I hope Tom's not putting this development in purely for the sake of surprising the readers, without thinking out the long-term consequences. We're talking about the guy who has managed multi-year plotlines with finesse, reintroduced what seemed like throwaway details 50 chapters later, and brought consequences eventually for things that characters seemed to be getting away with for quite a while. I don't think we need to worry about whether he's thinking long-term. Interesting out-of-the-square thought: The Tik Toks exist simultaneously in all the "thousand" dimensions, observing their differences. Zimmy/Zimmingham (how I love plots with Zimmy!) is a walking interdimensional portal, where things from other realities can cross interdimensions, where alter-selves can mix, or walk into each other. Great find on the House of Many Jacks! That does seem like it could be connected--although at least one of them, according to Gamma, was not a real person, just a memory of someone. Hmm. |
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Post by hp on Jun 17, 2019 20:33:30 GMT
Ooooh are we finally going to see that Kat vs. Coyote (Loup) face-off about which we've been wondering for years?
(Cue Loup freaking out about Kat's ether version and Kat seeing loup as a Coyote furrie with 20 sock puppets, one for each finger/toe)
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Post by Eily on Jun 17, 2019 21:27:43 GMT
Aha! So, Courtnie Frannie Annie *Cartoon like introduction* Featuring the Frannie *cool pause* Annie *cool pause* Courtnie *goofy pause* Trinity *synchronized pause* in a matter of F.A.C.T. ... What the Krigg did Kat ask that question for anyway? Can you imagine how bad it would have been if one of them had found out that only the other actually belonged? Even more so while they don't have an easy way to send her "back". I do like this answer then, since it doesn't mark one of the Annies as special. Although Clippy just said that they shouldn't be *here*, not that they don't belong in this timeline. He might have just read that the Psychopomps have claimed her, and misunderstood that as meaning that they should be dead. |
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Post by zaferion on Jun 18, 2019 0:04:44 GMT
yet another Annie that does not know anything and has to be filled in would be tiresome reading, I have the nagging feeling that this timeline's Annie is dead. They wouldn't have to spend pages upon pages explaining anything; all Tom would need to do is another 30 chapters worth of exposition later or after once more explaining the situation to get third Annie (Annie3? Three!Annie? Threenie?) up to speed and we could move on. That's assuming, of course, that that Annie doesn't already know what's going on. I can't imagine a reason Loup would steal this timeline's Annie except to keep her for himself, so it's entirely possible that she's seeing everything he's currently doing and we wouldn't have to do an exposition panel/page. If she's there with him, it might even be the opposite and she comes to us with stuff we didn't already know. |
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Post by todd on Jun 18, 2019 0:19:24 GMT
I have the nagging feeling that this timeline's Annie is dead. Which would have its own problems. I can think of three options if that was the case, none of them good: a) The original Annie whom we'd followed all the way until she went into the forest to speak with Loup is dead, and one of the "alternate Annies" takes over, which feels like poor writing. b) The original Annie is dead; to avoid the "cop-out" solution of a substitute alternate Annie, both Annies are sent back to their own timelines, and the story has to continue without her, which would have awkward results. c) This isn't the Gunnerkrigg Court that we began with but an alternate one, in which case, all the development we've received in these chapters was all just a fake. I don't see the point to taking that route, unless this is all a desperate ploy by Tom to delay the resolution of the Loup problem (assuming that that would mark the end of "Gunnerkrigg Court" - it might not) until he's got enough chapters to make this book the same length as its predecessors - that, in other words, the "two Annies" business is all just padding - and I hope he's above that. (As it is, the apparent revelation that both Annies are alternates and neither the original makes their development in the past chapter seem almost pointless - it's not "our" Annie growing and learning, but merely a couple of alternate Annies.) |
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Post by todd on Jun 18, 2019 2:28:35 GMT
30 chapters worth of exposition later [/a] or after once more explaining the situation to get third Annie (Annie3? Three!Annie? Threenie?) up to speed and we could move on. [/quote] As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm more concerned that this Annie (assuming that she's the "real" one whom we've followed until she went into the forest) won't have experienced all of these events first-hand, and will only get them filtered through what the rest of the cast has told her. |
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Post by Sauzels on Jun 18, 2019 4:13:52 GMT
What if Annie never fit into the timeline and this has been a long time coming? How's that for a twist?
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Post by liminal on Jun 18, 2019 4:14:30 GMT
I have the nagging feeling that this timeline's Annie is dead. Which would have its own problems. I can think of three options if that was the case, none of them good: a) The original Annie whom we'd followed all the way until she went into the forest to speak with Loup is dead, and one of the "alternate Annies" takes over, which feels like poor writing. b) The original Annie is dead; to avoid the "cop-out" solution of a substitute alternate Annie, both Annies are sent back to their own timelines, and the story has to continue without her, which would have awkward results. c) This isn't the Gunnerkrigg Court that we began with but an alternate one, in which case, all the development we've received in these chapters was all just a fake. I don't see the point to taking that route, unless this is all a desperate ploy by Tom to delay the resolution of the Loup problem (assuming that that would mark the end of "Gunnerkrigg Court" - it might not) until he's got enough chapters to make this book the same length as its predecessors - that, in other words, the "two Annies" business is all just padding - and I hope he's above that. (As it is, the apparent revelation that both Annies are alternates and neither the original makes their development in the past chapter seem almost pointless - it's not "our" Annie growing and learning, but merely a couple of alternate Annies.) It doesn't state explicitly whether or not either of them are "our" Annie, just that they're not from this particular post-Loupocaylptic timeline. With the focus their relationship has been given, it will be significant in the future, originals or not. |
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Post by jda on Jun 18, 2019 5:29:15 GMT
Yes, All I have in my records is a certain Stibnite female that was supposed to be the last actualization of an anomaly, Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the construction of The Court. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite the Headmaster's sincerest efforts, he has been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mechanical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably… here.
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Post by merry76 on Jun 18, 2019 6:08:18 GMT
DAmn, I whish Tom had left out multiple timeline stuff out of his comic. The reason for that is obvious: you cant resolve anything to a satisfactory level with multiple timelines. Look at the new avengers fiasco, where they try to explain away the way it works in their universe, and still do not get it quite right, leaving an "ok" last movie to the better last one all because the time stuff was handled so wobbly.
Also, instead of employing a arbitrary number of annies (2 in this case) to fetch something, Loup could just have brought the thing he wanted from a timeline where it is clear and present. Because if everything is possible in a quantum based multi-reality universe, there surely is one where both items are right here. Maybe not even guarded by the local Loup, because this one has 3 spares. Or there is only one Loup, and he controls all Timelines (this one we do not know yet - but if there are several Loups, they should object to having their annies nabbed, wich they apparently do not).
That being said, I dont like timelines in fiction. Nor do I like them in reality, but if they exist in reality (which quantum theory insists they do) they are pretty inconsequential to practically everything. In fiction slicing them or travelling between them is remarkably easy, and therefore they are consequential as heck.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 18, 2019 6:48:15 GMT
Why is Annie wearing three different outfits on this page? The Occam's Razor answer is, the attack and evac takes place over three days. (Four days, actually, since she's wearing yet another outfit on this page, which would be the evening of the first day - immediately after the attack.) Still, that seems long when you think about it. Think about how many hours there are in a day. Maybe we're already seeing some of the alternate timelines? |
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Post by stevencloser on Jun 18, 2019 9:26:38 GMT
yet another Annie that does not know anything and has to be filled in would be tiresome reading, I have the nagging feeling that this timeline's Annie is dead. They wouldn't have to spend pages upon pages explaining anything; all Tom would need to do is another 30 chapters worth of exposition later or after once more explaining the situation to get third Annie (Annie3? Three!Annie? Threenie?) up to speed and we could move on. That's assuming, of course, that that Annie doesn't already know what's going on. I can't imagine a reason Loup would steal this timeline's Annie except to keep her for himself, so it's entirely possible that she's seeing everything he's currently doing and we wouldn't have to do an exposition panel/page. If she's there with him, it might even be the opposite and she comes to us with stuff we didn't already know. If all he wanted was having an Annie for himself, all he had to do was pull Courtnie out of her timeline. She returned to the court and never even met Loup and no one would have ever been the wiser. Pulling two and even talking at length with one of them so she could then tell everything she knows to everyone else only made them suspicious and wanting to find out what happened. |
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Post by todd on Jun 18, 2019 12:46:15 GMT
The more I think about Loup's actions, the more I suspect that he has no real plan (not on the level that Coyote had) but is simply acting on his immediate impulses and desires (playing around with his new powers as if intoxicated with them) and isn't thinking out the long-term results of his deeds. (And probably stemming in part from the incompatibility of the fusion of the cunning Coyote and the far more direct Ysengrin.)
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Post by todd on Jun 18, 2019 13:10:40 GMT
It doesn't state explicitly whether or not either of them are "our" Annie, just that they're not from this particular post-Loupocaylptic timeline. With the focus their relationship has been given, it will be significant in the future, originals or not. It still means (unless it turns out that the little ghost was either lying or doing a poor job of explaining) that it's either not "our" Annie or not "our" Court. |
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Post by autumnn on Jun 18, 2019 13:42:21 GMT
I've not been very impressed by how anything has gone since the two Annie scenario was introduced. I'm trying to give Tom the benefit of doubt that this will all make sense when it's said and done -- it can't be easy writing a webcomic where people critique the story with a shortsighted view because they can only read one page at a time -- but I've stopped reading for months at a time because it's lost my interest, only occasionally checking in to skim the updates and get an idea of how it's coming along, which is doing nothing to increase my hope that this will reach a satisfactory conclusion. I don't want to believe that after writing Gunnerkrigg for all these years Tom felt the need to add twists out of left-field just for the sake of surprising readers without fully thinking through the ramifications of those twists, but it's getting harder and harder not to.
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Post by gpvos on Jun 18, 2019 16:18:17 GMT
I don't want to believe that after writing Gunnerkrigg for all these years Tom felt the need to add twists out of left-field just for the sake of surprising readers without fully thinking through the ramifications of those twists, but it's getting harder and harder not to. On the contrary, I think he has prepared for this with the earlier split when Annie separated her fire spirit and human part: I think one of the several aspects of that was to show that the current split is of a different type. My current theory is that the Annie from our timeline is now assigned to a special psychopomp timeline. I'm very sure that Tom will surprise us tomorrow though. He has been pretty good at subverting tropes until now. |
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Post by netherdan on Jun 18, 2019 17:13:01 GMT
This is when the first split happened. Loup created a new timeline, space-distorted it like Coyote did to the moon and plucked Annie away from it after crushing the bubble and breaking some buildings, which caused the boom noises (yes, I'm assuming this page is inside that bubble). This is when the second split happened. Loup just stripped Annie from her Fire, gave it a new body and set her free to go back to the Court while keeping the Fireless Annie with him. Probably preserved like Reynard's body, frozen in time or watching her selves every move through another space-distorted bubble-verse. Cue Annie losing her fire, rolling her eyes about to pass out and with friggin split surgery marks on her face! Also cue Annie's Fire new body still speaking to Loup as if nothing happened. PS: In both cases memory wipe is involved so that Courtnie doesn't remember being pulled away by Wallmaster and Frannie doesn't remember seeing herself passing out and being put to sleep beside Rey's body. TL;DR: One is a timeline shifted Annie, the other is a magical girl duplicate. Neither should exist in this timeline but both are the real Annie, just not the one we've been following since year 1. PPS: Turns out both magical/timeline split theories could be right!
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 18, 2019 20:40:30 GMT
This is when the first split happened. Loup created a new timeline, space-distorted it like Coyote did to the moon and plucked Annie away from it after crushing the bubble and breaking some buildings, which caused the boom noises (yes, I'm assuming this page is inside that bubble). This is when the second split happened. Loup just stripped Annie from her Fire, gave it a new body and set her free to go back to the Court while keeping the Fireless Annie with him. Probably preserved like Reynard's body, frozen in time or watching her selves every move through another space-distorted bubble-verse. Cue Annie losing her fire, rolling her eyes about to pass out and with friggin split surgery marks on her face! Also cue Annie's Fire new body still speaking to Loup as if nothing happened. PS: In both cases memory wipe is involved so that Courtnie doesn't remember being pulled away by Wallmaster and Frannie doesn't remember seeing herself passing out and being put to sleep beside Rey's body. TL;DR: One is a timeline shifted Annie, the other is a magical girl duplicate. Neither should exist in this timeline but both are the real Annie, just not the one we've been following since year 1. PPS: Turns out both magical/timeline split theories could be right! Loup said the boom noises were the Court looking for Annie. And the split line has appeared many times before on Annie's face when she went Fire Elemental. (As it is, the apparent revelation that both Annies are alternates and neither the original makes their development in the past chapter seem almost pointless - it's not "our" Annie growing and learning, but merely a couple of alternate Annies.) IMHO it does not prevent the possibility of the timelines being joined again, and the merged Annie remembering everything from all two (three?) perspectives. What if Annie never fit into the timeline and this has been a long time coming? How's that for a twist? I came here because I had the same idea, but you beat me to it!  Interesting out-of-the-square thought: The Tik Toks exist simultaneously in all the "thousand" dimensions, observing their differences. Zimmy/Zimmingham (how I love plots with Zimmy!) is a walking interdimensional portal, where things from other realities can cross interdimensions, where alter-selves can mix, or walk into each other. Great find on the House of Many Jacks! That does seem like it could be connected--although at least one of them, according to Gamma, was not a real person, just a memory of someone. Hmm. What makes this even more interesting IMHO, is that Gamma at this point had not even realized they were in Zimmingham. Ooooh are we finally going to see that Kat vs. Coyote (Loup) face-off about which we've been wondering for years? (Cue Loup freaking out about Kat's ether version and Kat seeing loup as a Coyote furrie with 20 sock puppets, one for each finger/toe) I doubt that. Kat sees through a lot of things Etheric, but its entities she sees as they are, like Ketrak and Ankou. I am pretty sure she does see Gods normally as well. But yes, they very probably see her Angel form. |
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Post by todd on Jun 18, 2019 23:56:18 GMT
Neither should exist in this timeline but both are the real Annie, just not the one we've been following since year 1. To me, the definition of the "real Annie" is "the one we've been following since year 1". |
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