|
|
Post by fia on Mar 22, 2019 16:41:31 GMT
It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. * by heat that they produce, they still feel regular heat |
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 22, 2019 16:53:21 GMT
Apparently, you were wrong! Monky just hung there waiting for them to talk a whole 3 panels, that's like 20 seconds or so... Plenty of time to do a lot of attacking. The theory of the Therapist Ashray still holds OK, you got me.  I was never entirely convinced it was going to attack them or not. Looking back at the last few pages, the ashray clearly had time enough to sneak up on them and attack while they were talking in the sewer corridors and even in the stairway (assuming that there's room enough for it to even form a body there). Instead, it seems to have followed them, somewhat sneakily (which is not hard when you're concentrating on talking) until they reached the final bunker. I wonder if it can listen in while in water form??? |
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Mar 22, 2019 16:53:55 GMT
That much water is going to generate a lot of steam. They're in an enclosed place. Steam explosion coming up, perhaps when someone opens a door?
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Mar 22, 2019 16:55:31 GMT
Shooting first, asking quastions later? Was has happened to the Annie who offered an angry minotaur her hand in greeting? I am still waiting for an actual attack by that thing. Another thing: If the ashray can instantaneously regenerate from water, he is not the perfect counter to water, fire is indeed the only element that can defeat it. Even if it is hard. The whole "water beats fire" thing video games present breaks down if you have an amorphous blob that cant really be hurt by anything else. Sure electricity would traditionally beat water, but all electricity does when it is directed at water is heat it up (it would also fry its brain, but that just survived getting burned in two by a laser. I dont think it has a traditional, physical brain. It appears to be a spirit moving the water).
Now, now...electrolysis can take water apart into oxygen and hydrogen. Some people seem to be forgetting that Annie has literally set herself on fire before with no ill effects. It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. Sure, I remember Antimony surrounding herself and Ys with her inner fire, and lighting her hair to celebrate becoming Coyote's medium. If she tried for the same effect by soaking her hair in gasoline and taking a match to it I'm not sure if she would be as unscathed. (her hair! it went up!) But at least she was not harmed by a volleyball burning up right next to her head. Does that already count as indirect heat? |
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 22, 2019 17:04:53 GMT
You know, Courtnie is the only one who has apparently encountered an ashray before. Fannie seems to have heard about them, but she only has Courtnie's word that they are dangerous. And it seems like the Court has apparently been in a battle-ready stance (red zones, civilians evacuated, the shield is still up) for six months. So, the Annies could be jumping to conclusions about this particular ashray (maybe an enemy? Court therapist? weird but friendly?); but only Courtnie has an actual reason to be jumpy. |
|
|
|
Post by ohthatone on Mar 22, 2019 17:18:25 GMT
Some people seem to be forgetting that Annie has literally set herself on fire before with no ill effects. It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. Yes, Annie can set herself on fire using her own fire with no problems, but if they use that fire to cause a reaction (bake the room and boil the water), are they free from those effects since that is not the fire itself but a product of it?
OR is she in enough control that she can heat up everything but the immediate area she is in, giving herself a little pocket of safety? that's a lot of control to have and they'd still potentially have an issue with steam, but I think that's more plausible than being able to stand in boiling water with no issue.
|
|
caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by caber on Mar 22, 2019 17:26:49 GMT
It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. * by heat that they produce, they still feel regular heat Huh, you know that’s kinda interesting; her mom is older than Annie here, yet she states she can control fire a little. Yet Annie can go full Johnny Storm; why does she seem more powerful than her mom? |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 22, 2019 17:28:04 GMT
But at least she was not harmed by a volleyball burning up right next to her head. Does that already count as indirect heat? She's igniting it and accelerating the burn with her fire so maybe not? That said, the wind that should exist from the ball combusting so fast that it is half gone (or more) before it hits the ground doesn't seem to be disturbing her hair. I don't think it's been established in the comic if Antimony can get burned by heat sources that aren't her fire. The part of her that isn't human should be immune, under the theory that burning a fire elemental would be like trying to drown an ashray, all else held equal. I'm not even 100% confident in that, though. It might be possible to extinguish a fire elemental if enough fire was applied explosively in a single instant, maybe it's possible to so disrupt an ashray with directed water under enough pressure that it dies. And if Antimonys' magical ancestor was actually a phoenix then if burned by enough alien fire Antimony might turn to ash and be reborn. But for the moment I'm assuming the Antimonies know what they're doing and are attacking the ashray for good reason and in a manner that won't cause damage to themselves. If that's not the case we should find out in a few comics. Huh, you know that’s kinda interesting; her mom is older than Annie here, yet she states she can control fire a little. Yet Annie can go full Johnny Storm; why does she seem more powerful than her mom? Surma probably didn't enter the wood until she was older so got less chance to practice, had other interests so probably wasn't as interested in training during that time, and probably didn't befriend Ysengrin and thus get special training from Coyote and Ys. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Mar 22, 2019 17:59:54 GMT
Huh, you know that’s kinda interesting; her mom is older than Annie here, yet she states she can control fire a little. Yet Annie can go full Johnny Storm; why does she seem more powerful than her mom? Counterquestion: Why shouldn't she? Other people do not share all qualities with their parents either.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohthatone on Mar 22, 2019 18:25:39 GMT
Huh, you know that’s kinda interesting; her mom is older than Annie here, yet she states she can control fire a little. Yet Annie can go full Johnny Storm; why does she seem more powerful than her mom? I kind of assumed different generations had different strengths. Surma said she was better at levitation while her grandmother was better at controlling fire. That implies that Surma's mom was also better at levitation or perhaps some other trick. |
|
|
|
Post by DonDueed on Mar 22, 2019 18:38:02 GMT
Some people seem to be forgetting that Annie has literally set herself on fire before with no ill effects. It seems that fire elementals are not easily damaged by heat. Yes, Annie can set herself on fire using her own fire with no problems, but if they use that fire to cause a reaction (bake the room and boil the water), are they free from those effects since that is not the fire itself but a product of it? I guess we're about to find out.
The point I was trying to make (and maybe wasn't explicit enough) is that Annie lives in an alternate universe where there is literally magic involved. So it's a bit odd to be applying the laws of physics that pertain in the real world, where no Annie could actually project fiery lasers from her fingers, or blaze up like a bonfire, without harm to herself.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaferion on Mar 22, 2019 19:50:22 GMT
How is this going to go poorly? Cuz it seems that, when the Annies agree, things go wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 22, 2019 22:30:40 GMT
How is this going to go poorly? Cuz it seems that, when the Annies agree, things go wrong. After the Annies battle and vanquish the ashray, somebody (return of the Mini-Loup?) will reveal that Mary-Kate the Ashray is the only creature who knows the secret meditative technique to reintegrate a divided body and soul, "so whatever you do, don't make her mad." |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Mar 22, 2019 23:45:20 GMT
Anyone ordered two servings of poached Annies?
|
|
|
|
Post by DonDueed on Mar 23, 2019 0:26:28 GMT
Anyone ordered two servings of poached Annies? Steamed. Annie-bao. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Mar 23, 2019 0:28:38 GMT
I looked back a few pages, and noticed that Loup said only "[his message] may have led other creatures to your location", without saying anything about their disposition. He phrased it in such a way that it sounds like a threat, but he never actually stated that the ashray has hostile intent. (The style of a trickster at work - telling the truth, but in a misleading way?)
Though if a major point of this chapter is the two Annies learning to make peace with each other and end their quarreling, it would undermine the moment if their working together resulted in an innocent creature getting badly injured or even killed. (Or could the long-haired Annie realize in time that the ashray doesn't mean them any harm and call off their prepared attack?)
|
|
caber
Junior Member
Posts: 77
|
Post by caber on Mar 23, 2019 1:41:49 GMT
Huh, you know that’s kinda interesting; her mom is older than Annie here, yet she states she can control fire a little. Yet Annie can go full Johnny Storm; why does she seem more powerful than her mom? Counterquestion: Why shouldn't she? Other people do not share all qualities with their parents either.
While I see where you are coming from, your counter question is asking to prove a negative; we'd have to systematically go through every possible answer, and eliminate each in turn until we reached a conclusion, or ran out of ideas. Still, I understand your point; it just seems like their power gap is a tad... Extreme. |
|
|
|
Post by Polyhymnia on Mar 23, 2019 3:49:24 GMT
Counterquestion: Why shouldn't she? Other people do not share all qualities with their parents either.
While I see where you are coming from, your counter question is asking to prove a negative; we'd have to systematically go through every possible answer, and eliminate each in turn until we reached a conclusion, or ran out of ideas. Still, I understand your point; it just seems like their power gap is a tad... Extreme. To me, I never read it as a power gap but as a difference in abilities. After all, they aren't the same person despite their energy being recycled. I think there's a set "toolbox" that Annie and her predecessors have access to, but each is able to use some better than others. Annie's thing is fire, like her grandmother. Her mother's was levitation, something Annie doesn't do often unless she is flaming. |
|
|
|
Post by Gotolei on Mar 23, 2019 5:26:08 GMT
While I see where you are coming from, your counter question is asking to prove a negative; we'd have to systematically go through every possible answer, and eliminate each in turn until we reached a conclusion, or ran out of ideas. Still, I understand your point; it just seems like their power gap is a tad... Extreme. To me, I never read it as a power gap but as a difference in abilities. After all, they aren't the same person despite their energy being recycled. I think there's a set "toolbox" that Annie and her predecessors have access to, but each is able to use some better than others. Annie's thing is fire, like her grandmother. Her mother's was levitation, something Annie doesn't do often unless she is flaming. In retrospect, that page in Get Lost seems to be kind of a reverse callback to this, in that Annie has trouble doing levitation/telekinesis/what-have-you, while a couple chapters earlier she was able to easily create a fake fire large enough to be be seen from quite far away. Granted, that illusion was done with the help of a blinker stone, but presumably Surma had had time to work on her abilities so the comparison might still balance out somewhat. |
|
|
|
Post by ruthie on Mar 23, 2019 9:52:50 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Eily on Mar 23, 2019 11:19:42 GMT
You know, Courtnie is the only one who has apparently encountered an ashray before. Fannie seems to have heard about them, but she only has Courtnie's word that they are dangerous. And it seems like the Court has apparently been in a battle-ready stance (red zones, civilians evacuated, the shield is still up) for six months. So, the Annies could be jumping to conclusions about this particular ashray (maybe an enemy? Court therapist? weird but friendly?); but only Courtnie has an actual reason to be jumpy. Sylvannie has a good reason to believe Courtnie, since they think they are the same person. Your post did make me think about Courtnie's reaction though, or rather, lack of reaction. Sylvannie was the one who took the initiative to try to leave the bunker; Courtnie waited until Sylvannie failed to burn the roots blocking their way before doing it herself; she didn't try her beam on the Ashray until after Sylvannie asked her to*; and she still wasn't the one to come up with a plan to get rid of the Ashray. That last one is especially weird, considering the fact that she already met one and knows her usual tricks won't do. Wouldn't she have been working with Kat or Reynard on some way to defend herself? I doubt her friends would have come up with the "boil the water you are standing in" solution, but they would at least have reached the conclusion that Annie should run for cover, while being careful about where the water goes? Either they did have the discussion and Courtnie just didn't care/listen, or she actually knows the Ashray is no threat and she is still testing Sylvannie. * the reason she didn't use her beam straightaway might just be that she already knew it wouldn't work, and then thought a demonstration was better than just give her word to the other Annie. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Mar 23, 2019 12:42:37 GMT
Not to mention that the impression I'd had from reading about them was that they looked more humanlike, rather than something that would have been at home swimming about in a Paleozoic ocean. I suspect that Tom just borrowed the name and the watery nature for his own creature - and that maybe even the slightly different spelling may be a sign that it's not quite the same as the asrai of British legend. It could also be another case of "the familiar legends weren't quite accurate" as with the Minotaur in Chapter Two. |
|
|
|
Post by Polyhymnia on Mar 23, 2019 17:47:13 GMT
Here's an interesting note in the discussion of whether or not Annies would be affected by fire. Here in the hospital, she's unaffected by the phantom fire of the dead boy. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=350 |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Mar 24, 2019 11:56:08 GMT
Counterquestion: Why shouldn't she? Other people do not share all qualities with their parents either.
While I see where you are coming from, your counter question is asking to prove a negative; we'd have to systematically go through every possible answer, and eliminate each in turn until we reached a conclusion, or ran out of ideas. Still, I understand your point; it just seems like their power gap is a tad... Extreme. My father is stronger than me, but I have greater endurance. He has perfect eyes, while I am shortsighted. I have a technical aptitude which none of my parents has. But I can also make a guess to answer your original question: Maybe the exact characteristics of the half-elementals Etheric abilities are influenced by the father. Just as Annie's much more stoic nature than her mother's comes from her father's influence. |
|
|
|
Post by merry76 on Mar 25, 2019 14:27:17 GMT
Shooting first, asking quastions later? Was has happened to the Annie who offered an angry minotaur her hand in greeting? I am still waiting for an actual attack by that thing. Another thing: If the ashray can instantaneously regenerate from water, he is not the perfect counter to water, fire is indeed the only element that can defeat it. Even if it is hard. The whole "water beats fire" thing video games present breaks down if you have an amorphous blob that cant really be hurt by anything else. Sure electricity would traditionally beat water, but all electricity does when it is directed at water is heat it up (it would also fry its brain, but that just survived getting burned in two by a laser. I dont think it has a traditional, physical brain. It appears to be a spirit moving the water).
Now, now...electrolysis can take water apart into oxygen and hydrogen. But that is even less efficient than turning the whole thing to steam...
Meh, but I am too late, its monday and they went all Super Saiyan on monky. Poor thing, all it wanted to do is cool them down with a watery headbutt.
|
|
drdave
Junior Member
Posts: 99
|
Post by drdave on Mar 25, 2019 14:30:18 GMT
Fire can't kill the Dragon
|
|
I was never entirely convinced it was going to attack them or not. 
