|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 30, 2019 17:02:12 GMT
I kind of don't get the point of this... Just seems a tad contrived so far to me. That contrivance may be the point, if they're under observation. Agreed. The one hour time limit sounds especially contrived. They've got all night. If they really wanted this to succeed they wouldn't put them under time pressure. The main thing that imprisoning Courtnie and Fannie together like this accomplishes is that their attention will be firmly focused on each other. I think we can safely infer that Kat is bothered by the current Antimony situation because of how Paz is acting compared to in the past. We know Kat can make devices that reach into the ether and we know Kat's testing can be subtle. We also know that Antimony can use her powers to remotely open doors or damage things close to her accidentally if she's provoked. So we've got the Antimonies currently stuck in a somewhat fireproof environment where their fire/anger will soon be stimulated and they are distracted from escape or interfering with any testing going on. It would probably be better if they weren't in the same room (just in case one's a dangerous creature) but then they wouldn't be as effective at agitating each other. The bit about hashing out their differences in one hour tells me that the test will take less than one hour, maybe a lot less. I figure Kat et al don't expect Courtnie and Fannie to actually work out their differences but figure that they can separate them quickly via Parley if need be, and if they make any progress at getting along then that's a bonus. But here's a possible twist. Antimony is etherically attractive to ghosts and probably 'pomps, possibly to other beings with etheric abilities/potential as well. I'm not sure exactly what that means but there's been long-running speculation that's how Jeanne managed to/why Jeanne wanted to briefly cross to the far side of the Annan, a place where she isn't supposed to be able to go. Could Antimony's attractiveness work on herself? If so, there's a chance this might actually get the Antimonies to reach some sort of understanding. Even funnier, if the attraction is powerful there is the chance that Kat might become jealous of how close Courtnie and Fannie might become. It's been formsprung that Kat finds Antimony very attractive. And if that happens then Paz can become jealous of how much time Kat spends thinking about Antimonies (if we aren't there already). |
|
|
|
Post by fia on Jan 30, 2019 17:23:51 GMT
Only an hour???
I feel like I'd need a year or two of therapy to "sort out [our/the/my] problems" in this situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by tustin2121 on Jan 30, 2019 17:26:19 GMT
My first thought about this page: "If this bunker has been sealed off, presumably by the court, so that only teleportation can be used to get in or out... how did they find this thing in the first place?"
|
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Jan 30, 2019 18:18:26 GMT
Ether fire can't melt steel bunkers So its scientifically proven to be less hot than 1500 degrees celsius (Iron, Steel would actually melt a bit sooner because mixing stuff brings down the melting point). Concrete becomes weak at 1200 degrees celsius, so that is the weaker spot in the walls, temperature wise.  But then again, I guess how hot ether fire works is probably based on the emotions of the user. The more anger, the hotter -> as seen in previous episodes. It does you not do you any good to tick of annie. Also, having heat alone isnt enough, you need a lot of joules to burn through something. A million degrees celsius doesnt help you burn through a concrete wall if all you can bring are a few thousand joules. It would just spread and then dissipate. The amount of energy to weaken a wall of concrete to the point of collapsing would be enourmous:
880 Joules per kg of mass to heat it up by one degree celsius.
A cubic metre of concrete is 2406 kg.
Increasing that cubic metre to 1200 Degrees from 20 would require 1180 x 880 x 2406 = 2'498'390'400 Joules or 2.5 Gigajoules. If only a part of that energy comes from the etheric user, burning through concrete is the ultimate diet  Way to science a meme to death, I guess.
The concrete walls are child's play. The tons of dirt they are holding, though... |
|
|
|
Post by speedwell on Jan 30, 2019 18:19:34 GMT
My first thought about this page: "If this bunker has been sealed off, presumably by the court, so that only teleportation can be used to get in or out... how did they find this thing in the first place?" Mighty Eyebrows Chaos-Killer, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Jan 30, 2019 18:21:23 GMT
My first thought about this page: "If this bunker has been sealed off, presumably by the court, so that only teleportation can be used to get in or out... how did they find this thing in the first place?" They found the place, seal Parley in, enclose it Etherproof, then Parley bips out. |
|
|
|
Post by jda on Jan 30, 2019 18:23:59 GMT
Well, half the forum guessed it.
By the way, Im feeling more than worried about "the abuse on your friends will help them" theme
|
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 30, 2019 18:46:51 GMT
I kind of don't get the point of this. None of the characters involved in this plan have been around the two of them together long enough to really pick up on them having problems. Also, why is they're having problems a problem? Is there some mission they need them to get along for? Or if one of them is fake (and I'm not saying one is but they don't know that) wouldn't having problems with said fake be justified? Just seems a tad contrived so far to me. It kind of feels like misguided teen hijinks to me. At least I remember as a teen trying to push people to get along before realizing that interfering in that way can do more harm than good if you're not careful. Also if one of them is fake, then this is a bad idea because what is going to stop the fake from hurting real Annie? Yes, the whole "You've learned yesterday that there is another you, and she either took your place among your family and friends, or is probably expecting to have it back, why didn't you instantly get along?" doesn't seem quite the justification for such an intervention. Besides, things haven't been actually that bad. Courtnie insisted her clothes were her own, but she was still the one who proposed letting some to Fannie, and she was the first one to say Fannie might be real. Of course, we barely have seen any of Courtnie's side of things, so maybe she has been complaining a lot, which would explain why Kat was so worried, and Paz's reaction (but if Courtnie is the cause, why did Paz seemingly only make her little speech to Fannie?). Well, half the forum guessed it. By the way, Im feeling more than worried about "the abuse on your friends will help them" theme As I said, that annoys me even under the best circumstances... And what they are doing here just sounds random, ineffective, unnecessary, intrusive and manipulative. Like other people have said, the Antimonies have just met, they are under a lot of stress, and they haven't even been that mean to each other... so why have their friends, who have just learned about the situation and haven't even had the chance to interact with the Antimonies, decided that this is necessary?
Not to mention that this seems more likely to provoke a rift between one or both the Antimonies and their friends than to have them become friends... I mean, Tom will probably make them become closer because of plot demands, but objectively speaking, if you put two people who dislike each other in such situation for an hour, they are more likely to just stand on opposite corners of the room being silent or exchanging passive-aggressive remarks at best, and to shout insults and even beat each other at worst... Also, what if one of the two Antimonies really is a powerful shapeshifting monster who attacks the real Antimony? Are they ready to take that chance? As for doing some etheric testing on them without telling them, they could, you know, have done it while watching a movie or something...
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jan 30, 2019 19:13:03 GMT
Well, anyway, I always thought that doing an escape room together is great for team building.
|
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Jan 30, 2019 19:22:59 GMT
If it was me, I'd just pick some random warehouse (near a pizza restaurant, of course), lock it and tell my victims friends it is a sealed underground place. Then I'd go to prepare their secret pizza party while they despair back there.
Edit: Stupid grammar!
|
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 30, 2019 19:28:10 GMT
If it was me, I'd just pick some random warehouse (near a pizza restaurant, of course), lock it and tell my victims friends it was a sealed underground place. Then I'd go to prepare their secret pizza party while they despair back there. That annoys me even more: Playing a stressing, distressing prank on a friend while preparing a surprise party, expecting them to instantly shed their anger, become cheery and join the fun because you say so...
Knowing Annie, that would risk having the house burnt down if the Annies are really angry when they are taken out the place and shown the party...
Well, anyway, I always thought that doing an escape room together is great for team building.
Is the person who locked you inside the room considered part of the "team"? Because if so, I think it would make that person quite hated, eroding their ability to work as part of the team...
|
|
|
|
Post by Corvo on Jan 30, 2019 19:31:33 GMT
Now that I think, it'd be kinda cool if Courtnie reveals she's actually Fire Annie, and that's why she's so angry all the time (especially with Frannie). Edit: I completely forgot we're using "Frannie" now. |
|
|
|
Post by keef on Jan 30, 2019 20:45:57 GMT
Only an hour??? I feel like I'd need a year or two of therapy to "sort out [our/the/my] problems" in this situation.
(On the third hand, she could have used some therapy since her daddy returned. Or since her mum died. (On yet another hand, who needs therapy anyway.)) |
|
|
|
Post by netherdan on Jan 30, 2019 21:04:43 GMT
On the other hand, as soon as they accept that they're actually one and the same person, things should be hunky dory. I have been talking with myself for as long as I can remember, without any trouble. Sanest guy I know actually.
(On the third hand, she could have used some therapy since her daddy returned. Or since her mum died. (On yet another hand, who needs therapy anyway.)) |
|
|
|
Post by tustin2121 on Jan 30, 2019 21:44:10 GMT
Now that I think, it'd be kinda cool if Courtnie reveals she's actually Fire Annie, and that's why she's so angry all the time (especially with Fannie). To be fair, Courtnie only started being "angry all the time"* when Frannie accused Courtnie of being a fake. She was pretty amiable before that moment. * That is, to our limited perspective from Frannie's point of view, which I argue is nothing to go on. See also Tony, and how he looked from Annie's perspective for multiple books, before we got the perspective switch in Get Lost. |
|
|
|
Post by Eily on Jan 30, 2019 23:08:04 GMT
To be fair, Courtnie only started being "angry all the time"* when Frannie accused Courtnie of being a fake. She was pretty amiable before that moment. * That is, to our limited perspective from Frannie's point of view, which I argue is nothing to go on. See also Tony, and how he looked from Annie's perspective for multiple books, before we got the perspective switch in Get Lost. Courtnie herself might be starting to feel like Forest Annie is the main one ( Main babe?), after all she's the one who didn't get dismissed by Loup, or thrown away as a decoy. Courtnie may have realized she's not the Forest medium anymore. I don't really like Frannie as a name for the Forest one. Besides, Fannie or Frannie could work just as well for Fire Annie. So I've got new propositions, Mononoke Annie, or Monie for short. And Anti-Antimonie for the not her; the double anti cancels out, so that's Monie for short. They were that close from getting stuck in your head. |
|
|
|
Post by mturtle7 on Jan 31, 2019 0:04:16 GMT
For everyone who's wondering why the hell Kat would think this could possibly be a good solution to this particular social dillemma, I give you...
Kat solves all your social problems
Bottom line is, when Kat sets out to solve your social problems, she does NOT do it with subtlety and tact. This may not be the best plan, but I think it is actually a very typical one for Kat to come up with.
|
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jan 31, 2019 0:17:42 GMT
Don't forget, also, that Kat and the rest have grown up and been educated in a school run by people with a strong "ends justify the means" philosophy, embarked on a secret project with a strong element of hubris in it. That's got to leave some mark on them. (And after six months of looming threat from the Forest, with the sense that freeing Jeanne was responsible for that, they might have started to wonder whether moral principles and questions of right and wrong are such a good idea to live by in a place like this, if ruthless, morally questionable activity for the sake of survival and getting things done is the way to proceed. Though I hope not; that would be even more unfortunate than the physical damage Loup wreaked upno the Court.)
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Jan 31, 2019 1:06:11 GMT
What I expect is a "One hour later" panel, then
(Bipping back): uh... They are not there...
|
|
|
|
Post by Eily on Jan 31, 2019 9:32:07 GMT
Going further than what I said in my last post, I'm sure someone already pointed that out, but if Forest Annie told them what Loup said ("I had to play a little trick") the situation must be terrifying for Courtnie. She saw for herself that Forest Annie is the real deal, it's probably scary to think you might just be a god's temporary deception, but Courtnie has reasons to believe this is the most likely explanation to the current situation. Under those circonstances, with Courtnie thinking Loup might just decide to get rid of her, it's not surprising that she isn't more friendly with Annie from the Forest. She must have talked about those fears to her friends non stop. Even if Kat and the others do believe Forest Annie, there's a possibility their priority right now is to convince Courtnie that no matter how she came to be, she's still their friend, they still care about her just as much, and they will not let her be just removed. Though in that case Parley's trick, of which Kat didn't tell her anything, must feel like an awful betrayal... Poor Courtnie  Now in that situation, Paz would have seen someone show up, and tell Kat her best friend of the last six months is probably just a glorified puppet, with the possibility of her just disappearing. I guess I can see how Paz - who seems to be empathic beyond understanding animals - would be really unhappy about Kat losing some aspect of her best friend. Also what about the Psychopomps? Did they just ignore Courtnie, just proving further that she's not real? Or did they actually asked for her help, meaning she lost the job she liked (forest medium) but was the one to have to do the work she never wanted. And back to the name, Gillitie Annie could be Ginnie  |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 31, 2019 9:46:48 GMT
Going further than what I said in my last post, I'm sure someone already pointed that out, but if Forest Annie told them what Loup said ("I had to play a little trick") the situation must be terrifying for Courtnie. She saw for herself that Forest Annie is the real deal, it's probably scary to think you might just be a god's temporary deception, but Courtnie has reasons to believe this is the most likely explanation to the current situation. Under those circonstances, with Courtnie thinking Loup might just decide to get rid of her, it's not surprising that she isn't more friendly with Annie from the Forest. She must have talked about those fears to her friends non stop. Even if Kat and the others do believe Forest Annie, there's a possibility their priority right now is to convince Courtnie that no matter how she came to be, she's still their friend, they still care about her just as much, and they will not let her be just removed. Though in that case Parley's trick, of which Kat didn't tell her anything, must feel like an awful betrayal... Poor Courtnie Now in that situation, Paz would have seen someone show up, and tell Kat her best friend of the last six months is probably just a glorified puppet, with the possibility of her just disappearing. I guess I can see how Paz - who seems to be empathic beyond understanding animals - would be really unhappy about Kat losing some aspect of her best friend. Also what about the Psychopomps? Did they just ignore Courtnie, just proving further that she's not real? Or did they actually asked for her help, meaning she lost the job she liked (forest medium) but was the one to have to do the work she never wanted. And back to the name, Gillitie Annie could be Ginnie Annie wouldn't speak about her insecurities so easily so soon... |
|
|
|
Post by netherdan on Jan 31, 2019 12:16:07 GMT
What I expect is a "One hour later" panel, then (Bipping back): uh... They are not there... At least they worked together to get out, right? Right? |
|
|
|
Post by Nnelg on Jan 31, 2019 15:22:37 GMT
Hm, can anyone draw? This forum needs a sketch of the two Annies in the fusion pose. Ether fire can't melt steel bunkers I guess the bunker is mostly concrete, and they got Parley to block the door with a bunch of huge concrete blocks too. (What's the temperature at which concrete falls apart/melts/burns/whatever?) Actually, rock generally melts at a lower temp than steel does. But if it's thick enough, attempting to melt a passage will turn the bunker into an oven. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jan 31, 2019 17:12:53 GMT
Well, anyway, I always thought that doing an escape room together is great for team building.
Is the person who locked you inside the room considered part of the "team"? Because if so, I think it would make that person quite hated, eroding their ability to work as part of the team...
Of course, when I say "doing an escape room together" I imply a consensual activity, not "being locked in an escape room together".  |
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Jan 31, 2019 17:34:29 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Jan 31, 2019 18:16:16 GMT
awesome. no way this could go wrong at all. ten minutes, they hug, and they're free. (this is...gonna be a long chapter, I guess.) We've been shown no means of observation. No matter what happens, George comes back in an hour. |
|
|
|
Post by mordekai on Jan 31, 2019 20:17:28 GMT
What I expect is a "One hour later" panel, then (Bipping back): uh... They are not there... How they could do it:
1.-They approach the door. 2.-They go etheric. 3.-They whisper: "I... am... aaaaa ghoooooost!" to the door. 4.-They physically enter the RotD and use it as a shortcut to their home.
|
|
|
|
Post by jda on Jan 31, 2019 20:35:31 GMT
What I expect is a "One hour later" panel, then (Bipping back): uh... They are not there... How they could do it:
1.-They approach the door. 2.-They go etheric. 3.-The whisper: "I... am... aaaaa ghoooooost!" to the door. 4.-They physically enter the RotD and use it as a shortcut to their home.
Terrific catch! |
|
|
|
Post by madjack on Jan 31, 2019 22:10:24 GMT
How they could do it:
1.-They approach the door. 2.-They go etheric. 3.-The whisper: "I... am... aaaaa ghoooooost!" to the door. 4.-They physically enter the RotD and use it as a shortcut to their home.
Terrific catch! |
|
|
|
Post by ctso74 on Feb 1, 2019 5:32:13 GMT
I kind of don't get the point of this. None of the characters involved in this plan have been around the two of them together long enough to really pick up on them having problems. Also, why is they're having problems a problem? Is there some mission they need them to get along for? Or if one of them is fake (and I'm not saying one is but they don't know that) wouldn't having problems with said fake be justified? Just seems a tad contrived so far to me. Maybe, but I think that the point is that the real focus of the "two Annies" problem is supposed to be their clashing with each other rather than Loup's role in bringing them about. (When I studied "Much Ado About Nothing" at college, the teacher argued that Don John was a "plot-device villain", who existed merely to give Claudio the necessary shove into suspecting that Hero was unfaithful to him; the "true villain" was Claudio's insecurity and doubt. I wonder if Loup is similarly a "plot-device character" here, whose purpose was to provide an explanation for the "two Annies" situation, and that their problem in getting along together is the true story, more than Loup's threatening the Court.) Oh, Don John. He is truly one-dimensional. I always saw him as a way for The Bard to create a character, that was unredeemable in his simplistic vileness. Just evil. No reasoning. No audience sympathy. No back story that really explains it. Just a mean simple bastard. As a character, Don John may be the original (though shallow) Joker. He just wants the world to burn, for no real good reason. |
|
