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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 18, 2019 15:08:35 GMT
Good point. What Paz is saying is open to broad interpretation. Paz doesn't give Fannie a chance to respond or ask questions; maybe that's because this has been the first chance to have a word in private with Fannie and now that she's done so she wants to move on before drawing attention... but if the robots are moving on then that means she doesn't want the other kids to know. Maybe it's just because Paz doesn't want them second-guessing her, but it happens to keep options open that the rest of the group might not approve of. It does show that on some level Paz doesn't care what Fannie's response might be. That was a bad idea. A creature from the forest wouldn't care Paz threats, but they could upset the real Annie and create trouble, which would upset Kat in turn... Sometimes it can give someone not fully on the up-and-up pause to see evidence that they aren't completely getting away with it and at least one person is watching. Sure if Paz mistrusts her, who else might mistrust her AND be able to back it up? A wise being would up their game. In other words, Paz wants Fannie to be uncertain about what the consequences might be if she does... well, anything that Paz might not like with regard to Kat and since Paz is unlikely to openly attack Fannie head-on then it's about who Paz might talk to (Kat's friends, Courtnie, the Court security, etc) and anything else Paz might do to make those consequences more severe. However it only works when there's an implicit "us" behind it. That sort of fell by the wayside when Fannie quickly and firmly convinced Winsbury and Janet that she was real a few pages back. Unless there was some advantage in doing so I don't think that Paz would try to take on an Antimony or a forest creature openly in anything like a fair fight. Paz might not worry so much about her own safety but she wouldn't be able to use her trump card, animals, without getting them hurt. It could be that Paz thinks that if Fannie is dangerous Paz can draw Fannie out or at least draw Fannie's first attack to herself by doing this, but I don't think so (see below). We've already seen Court Annie act wooden and coolly violent and haughty and selfish. We have seen pre-incident Annie drop the woodenness, we've never seen her use her powers violently without violent emotion, she's more reserved than haughty, and even if she is selfish, it's not a greedy kind of selfishness like Court Annie seems to exhibit. Paz may be on edge expecting Forest Annie to be or become like that toward Kat. I think nobody would be so accepting of Forest Annie if it weren't for the fact that Court Annie is just not like herself. This might be because Paz is tired of Antimony's acute PPS (Primary Protagonist Syndrome) that causes strange things to happen around her that get in the way with Paz's relationship with Kat and maybe risk Kat's safety. That last panel shows Paz with a big smile on her face; the kids are currently heading to Kat's lab which is in an unsafe area and therefore is a prime chance for something bad to mysteriously happen to someone. Even if she was planning on drawing a dangerous creature's attack to herself for Kat's sake I don't think Paz would be smiling if she thought there was any chance she'd just threatened a dangerous creature. I think she's smiling because the dumb fire-headed [insert bad name for female person here] has gone and gotten herself duplicated and Paz just told off/threatened an Antimony and seen said Antimony get nervous (see panels 4 and 5). And that felt good. |
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Post by The Anarch on Jan 18, 2019 15:31:24 GMT
Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat.
No one at all.
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Post by netherdan on Jan 18, 2019 16:12:32 GMT
Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat. No one at all.Unless hurting Kat triggers her god mode and she frees the entirety of Court's robot staff from the shield and crabs, then Paz would have an army willing to assist in avenging their goddess |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 18, 2019 16:22:00 GMT
We've already seen Court Annie act wooden and coolly violent and haughty and selfish. We have seen pre-incident Annie drop the woodenness, we've never seen her use her powers violently without violent emotion, she's more reserved than haughty, and even if she is selfish, it's not a greedy kind of selfishness like Court Annie seems to exhibit. To be honest, she seemed determined, but quite collected when she joined the fight during Crash Course. I saw it that way, at least. This might be because Paz is tired of Antimony's acute PPS (Primary Protagonist Syndrome) that causes strange things to happen around her that get in the way with Paz's relationship with Kat and maybe risk Kat's safety. If that is the case, Paz would be happily ignoring the fact that a lot of the bad stuff happening was a direct consequence of Kat's unsupervised experiments, most notably the whole Torn Sea business. Of course, when you are in looove, you might be more inclined to think that, of course, your beloved's work is very important and all the problems are solely caused by other people. |
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Post by jda on Jan 18, 2019 16:33:55 GMT
Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat. No one at all." ¿Que no soy una amenaza?" We seem to forget that the GKC "kids" have had every circumstance to mature (being in a "war", confronted attack, and almost certain harm treaths [The Torn Sea], fleeing Forest attacks) and in Paz' case adds to being sent to another country, and adapting to a strange language and culture... Also, we must not focus only in the Etheric powers (talking to animals, firebending, etc). Any normal person could snitch on you, do you physical harm, or at least, have priviliged unguarded access for several months to a Tech Goddess lab, and there is such things as sniper rifles... At least, I would consider Paz a potential asassin. Just as HPMOR says "The man stalked about Hogwarts with the air of an assassin, radiating danger... which was exactly not what a real assassin should do. Real assassins should look like meek little accountants until they killed you." |
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Post by csj on Jan 18, 2019 16:40:25 GMT
 Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat. No one at all.After playing Dishonored, her ability to commune with rodents seemed a lot more menacing than before. |
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Post by tustin2121 on Jan 18, 2019 16:45:12 GMT
...huh? I'm not sure what to think about this. If Fannie is really the real Annie (however you want to interpret "real"), Paz knows she loves Kat and would never do anything to hurt her. Except perhaps unintentionally, which can't be avoided. If Fannie is a demonic being from the forest or something, then Paz's threats are empty and she's actually putting herself in danger by making them. Either way... this is silly. Paz's worry for Kat is admirable....but if Annie wanted to hurt her or Kat, what could she do? The Seraphs were wrong to underestimate her back on that boat, but it's not like there's always going to be a Lindsay around for her to enlist. Guys... it's been less than a day in-story. Everyone is still processing this double Annie situation. In fact, they're running across town right now specifically to get somewhere where they can process this situation. To them, as of right now, Courtnie is still the real Annie, because she's been with them a lot longer, and Frannie is the interloper. No one's thinking about the "if Frannie is the real Annie" side of it yet... And there's certainly no way Paz is thinking about if or how she could possibly back up a threat like this... Cut her some slack... I do love how the threat made on this page speaks volumes about what's apparently going on with Kat, though. Paz can apparently see that Kat has been deeply affected by what transpired earlier today. |
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Post by netherdan on Jan 18, 2019 17:00:37 GMT
[image proboards deleted from the quote because reasons] Thank you photoshop-litterate friend |
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Post by Chancellor on Jan 18, 2019 17:22:08 GMT
This taste...Is the taste of a LIAR
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 18, 2019 18:02:40 GMT
Well damn. Cookies for you, imaginaryfriend! I'm not sure why I keep being so surprised by Badass Paz after all this time. You'd think I would have learned after The Torn Sea.
I was so busy surprised, in fact, that it took me a while to realize what exactly Paz is so worried about! As she says, Kat worries a lot about Annie. She probably knows perfectly well how protective Kat gets when it comes to Annie. Now, there are TWO potential Annies for Kat to worry about, and the worst possible thing that could happen would be for them to start fighting/arguing with each other, because then Kat would feel obligated to not only protect Annie from Annie, but also to protect Annie from Annie. That's just not a situation which anyone wants to be in, ever. And even though Paz hasn't actually seen how the Annies together yet, it doesn't take a genius to figure out they might not be getting along well! So what she's effectively saying here is, "play nice with your other self, because if you don't, it WILL hurt Kat, and I do NOT tolerate my gf getting hurt."
A lot of people are understandably distracted by the "whatever you are" part, but I don't think that's really implying that Paz thinks Frannie is an evil Forest spy or anything; she honestly just means that it doesn't matter what Frannie is (evil Forest spy, time clone, secret robot, etc.), because all that matters is what Kat thinks Frannie is. And right now, Paz wants Kat to think that Frannie is still her friend, who is Very Happy right now, and has the whole clone situation Totally Handled so there's definitely no need for Kat to agonize about it.
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Post by zaferion on Jan 18, 2019 18:27:01 GMT
The comic has explored the theme of "Do Not Underestimate Paz" before, so I think people writing her off as a toothless babe are missing the point a bit. She may not be able to have a face to face showdown with the human acetylene torch, but she's clever and rather merciless when the people she loves are threatened.
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Post by fia on Jan 18, 2019 19:35:11 GMT
Yeah, don't trifle with Paz. She's basically Jason Momoa but on land AND under water in a beautiful, small, whip-smart package.
I loved this page. Paz looks genuinely creepy, she's making a genuine Scary Anime Face.
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Post by fia on Jan 18, 2019 19:39:47 GMT
A second thought: is Paz the first core character to seriously question Annie (besides obviously other Annie)? I think it's a good trait she has to have her priorities clear. Renard and Kat both primarily want Annie to be okay, and Tony probably does too; the friends aren't sure how this affects them; Paz, though, she is clear that her BAE is Kat and she obviously cares more about Kat than Annie's eternal drama.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 18, 2019 22:07:08 GMT
A second thought: is Paz the first core character to seriously question Annie (besides obviously other Annie)? I think it's a good trait she has to have her priorities clear. Renard and Kat both primarily want Annie to be okay, and Tony probably does too; the friends aren't sure how this affects them; Paz, though, she is clear that her BAE is Kat and she obviously cares more about Kat than Annie's eternal drama. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 18, 2019 23:08:48 GMT
What if the entity Loup is depending on to retrieve the pond water and bone is not actually Forest Annie, who he knows is unlikely to obey him, but Court Annie, who he perhaps manipulates? Notice in the latest treatise, Annie has Coyote's binding on her wrist. When we see the two Annies meet, one has nothing on her wrists, but one is wearing a top that half covers her hands. It's suggestive. It'll be interesting to see if C!Annie is wearing full-length clothing or not. But how much leverage is a binding when your best friend is a technogoddess who can make a new hand? You still wouldn't want to lose your original if it can be avoided but if it can't then at least there's options. |
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Post by somebunny on Jan 19, 2019 0:35:36 GMT
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Post by jda on Jan 19, 2019 4:34:44 GMT
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Post by mordekai on Jan 20, 2019 0:18:52 GMT
Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat. No one at all.
Loup would probably eat Lindsey for dinner, even if she were able to move freely on dry land... And we don't know if Lindsey's etheric projection would be able to do anything at all...
The robots are out of the game, at least the ones Paz could try to influence. And I doubt they could do much against Loup or Coyote... If Kat were to take control of their collective she could maybe engineer something able to upset Loup (the same way they are stopping his attacks now), but Paz? Not so much.
And good luck trying to use animals to attack Gillitie Forest... the supernatural beasts would have them for lunch...
I guess Paz could try to have Eglamore and Parley attack Forest!Annie if she discovered she wasn't the real Annie... but they would do it anyway...
As I said, this is a bad move... If this were a demon doppelganger or similar, she wouldn't care Paz's threats, but if it's Annie... that is like when an overprotective father threatens the new boyfriend of his daughter with a shotgun in a comedy... something stupid that is likely to damage their relationship...
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Post by The Anarch on Jan 20, 2019 1:06:32 GMT
do nothing at all because Loup is not present. His only presence in the Court at the moment is the creatures getting in through the roots, and it has been shown that they are pretty easy to deal with for now. Even if he was there, Loup is unpredictable and there's no telling whether or not he would actually do anything to protect Forest Annie . . . after all, he does have a spare. I don't see how attacking the forest would have anything to do with it at all since any attack would be against Forest Annie, not the forest. I also don't see why "attack" as in "physically bombarding" would have to be the go-to for Paz. There are far more subtle things that Paz and her helpers - be they human or be they creature - could do to make Forest Annie's life difficult or a downright living hell. Hetty put in some pretty good torture tactics, and she was just a little doll working on her lonesome. There are far more sinister plots that can be put into motion than simply trying to beat Forest Annie up. Hell, just the social stigma that might come from Paz raising a fuss if Forest Annie upsets Kat would be a difficult thing for her to deal with. For one, it's not just Lindsey, Eglamore, and Parley that might turn against Forest Annie. She'd also have the rest of the scooby crew here, and Renard, and Anthony, and several others that would be a less trusting toward her to varying degrees. And since there's also still the possibility of her being Not-Annie, it's likely that the incident might bring down more scrutiny regarding her real identity. So if she were a demon doppelganger or such, this would be a serious threat to her continued secret operation of whatever, and if she's actually an Annie, this could be a serious inconvenience to resuming a normal-ish life and/or trying to procure the items Loup wants. But, in the end, whether or not this was a bad move from the standpoint of logical consequences is largely immaterial. It wasn't a move made for intellectual reasons but for emotional ones. Paz set herself up as a guardian against a potential threat to Kat's emotional wellbeing, a move intended to protect Kat and - probably subconsciously - bolster Paz's own sense of security in an uncertain situation. This may or may not be a bad move in other respects, but to Paz, potentially causing damage to her relationship with Annie by making sure Forest Annie understands where she stands is quite likely to be a more preferable move than to simply sitting back and letting some fake Annie come in and cause Kat any kind of pain. Is it a justified move? A good move? Perhaps not in either case. But it's the correct move from Paz's point of view and also not as bad a move or as empty a threat as folks are making it out to be. |
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Post by mordekai on Jan 20, 2019 1:42:39 GMT
do nothing at all because Loup is not present. His only presence in the Court at the moment is the creatures getting in through the roots, and it has been shown that they are pretty easy to deal with for now. Even if he was there, Loup is unpredictable and there's no telling whether or not he would actually do anything to protect Forest Annie . . . after all, he does have a spare. I don't see how attacking the forest would have anything to do with it at all since any attack would be against Forest Annie, not the forest. I also don't see why "attack" as in "physically bombarding" would have to be the go-to for Paz. There are far more subtle things that Paz and her helpers - be they human or be they creature - could do to make Forest Annie's life difficult or a downright living hell. Hetty put in some pretty good torture tactics, and she was just a little doll working on her lonesome. There are far more sinister plots that can be put into motion than simply trying to beat Forest Annie up. Hell, just the social stigma that might come from Paz raising a fuss if Forest Annie upsets Kat would be a difficult thing for her to deal with. For one, it's not just Lindsey, Eglamore, and Parley that might turn against Forest Annie. She'd also have the rest of the scooby crew here, and Renard, and Anthony, and several others that would be a less trusting toward her to varying degrees. And since there's also still the possibility of her being Not-Annie, it's likely that the incident might bring down more scrutiny regarding her real identity. So if she were a demon doppelganger or such, this would be a serious threat to her continued secret operation of whatever, and if she's actually an Annie, this could be a serious inconvenience to resuming a normal-ish life and/or trying to procure the items Loup wants. But, in the end, whether or not this was a bad move from the standpoint of logical consequences is largely immaterial. It wasn't a move made for intellectual reasons but for emotional ones. Paz set herself up as a guardian against a potential threat to Kat's emotional wellbeing, a move intended to protect Kat and - probably subconsciously - bolster Paz's own sense of security in an uncertain situation. This may or may not be a bad move in other respects, but to Paz, potentially causing damage to her relationship with Annie by making sure Forest Annie understands where she stands is quite likely to be a more preferable move than to simply sitting back and letting some fake Annie come in and cause Kat any kind of pain. Is it a justified move? A good move? Perhaps not in either case. But it's the correct move from Paz's point of view and also not as bad a move or as empty a threat as folks are making it out to be.
Again, if Forest!Annie were an agent of Loup, sent to infiltrate the court for some nefarious reason, would she care about any of that?
She already knows many people suspects her and are on guard against her... Eglamore, for example, thinks she isn't real... Paz's warning changes nothing.
As for making her life hell is she does something nasty... well, if she is a good spy of course she would do nothing to upset anybody, obviously... until she strikes and blows the Court or something similar... and afterwards she would have to run back to the forest and she wouldn't care anything the gang could do...
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Post by The Anarch on Jan 20, 2019 2:13:32 GMT
Again, if Forest!Annie were an agent of Loup, sent to infiltrate the court for some nefarious reason, would she care about any of that? Yes, because again, if she really is Not-Annie, then upsetting Kat and therefore Paz may bring further scrutiny down on her, which would complicate her ability to fulfill her mission, not to mention whatever actions Paz herself may take toward her. Paz's warning ensures that Forest Annie - regardless of who she really is - understands that Paz is another person keeping an eye on her. Running back to the forest is not a foolproof plan against retaliation by any means. Again, we don't know exactly what the extent is of Loup's protection. Further, we don't know which forest creatures may be loyal to Loup. Loyalty to Coyote and/or Ys does not necessarily translate into loyalty for Loup, and we know that even under the old regime there were individuals in the forest with sympathies for the court, some to the point where they actually moved there. And vice versa, there are former court denizens would moved to the forest and may be willing to side with them again. Even if the court as a whole didn't go in after Forest Annie (a possible scenario if what she does is bad enough), Paz just by herself wouldn't be completely helpless. She can communicate with Lindsey, meaning that supernatural creatures are not immune to her abilities, giving her a chance to negotiate her way in safely. Crossing Kat is in no way a safe strategy, and Paz is making sure Forest Annie understands that. |
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Post by Elysium on Jan 20, 2019 7:24:50 GMT
Paz's threat is obviously empty because if Forest Annie did do anything to upset Kat, there would certainly be no one else but Paz who would care and thus no one to help her back up her threat. No one at all.I don't think that's relevant or even a concern Paz has; if Kat's well-being is threatened, it doesn't matter if it's a demigod or anything, she will face the problem maker in the eyes. |
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Post by speedwell on Jan 20, 2019 22:35:26 GMT
I am suddenly reminded that Galicians are a Celtic people. I live in Ireland. That look you see on Paz is just like the "scary Irish warrior woman gonna eff you up" expression an Irishwoman gets when you threaten something she cares about. Serious.
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Post by Runningflame on Jan 21, 2019 4:12:16 GMT
I am suddenly reminded that Galicians are a Celtic people. I live in Ireland. That look you see on Pat is just like the "scary Irish warrior woman gonna eff you up" expression an Irishwoman gets when you threaten something she cares about. Serious. I love this mental image so much.  My commitment to historical accuracy does require me to point out (after some Wikipedia research) that Galicia also saw Roman and especially Germanic immigration, so the Galicians aren't a fully Celtic people. On the other hand, it seems that in the past century or two they have really embraced the Celtic part of their heritage. So Paz may in fact see herself as a scary Celtic warrior woman. Awesome.  Ah, here's the image that comes to my mind:  |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 21, 2019 4:57:50 GMT
I am suddenly reminded that Galicians are a Celtic people. I live in Ireland. That look you see on Pat is just like the "scary Irish warrior woman gonna eff you up" expression an Irishwoman gets when you threaten something she cares about. Serious. I love this mental image so much. My commitment to historical accuracy does require me to point out (after some Wikipedia research) that Galicia also saw Roman and especially Germanic immigration, so the Galicians aren't a fully Celtic people. On the other hand, it seems that in the past century or two they have really embraced the Celtic part of their heritage. So Paz may in fact see herself as a scary Celtic warrior woman. Awesome. Ah, here's the image that comes to my mind: The real question is, how do we turn this into couples cosplay? |
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