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Post by madjack on Nov 5, 2018 23:47:09 GMT
Okay, so I'm out for 2 pages and there's a discussion on Court wide memory manipulation? What the heck you have been smoking? Give me some of it! THANK YOU. I'm siding with netherdan and Occam's Razor, here: some people who aren't as personally familiar with Antimony and may not have even been told who she is or that she's missing are in charge of the security situation. Hey, in the absence of knowledge, fear and hysteria wild speculation will take hold. |
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Post by faiiry on Nov 5, 2018 23:58:56 GMT
Hi everyone, finally decided to come out of the woodwork and start conversing with you all and sharing my ideas.
What if this has nothing to do with time travel at all? What if it's a parallel dimension, given their chill confusion about her coming from the forest it seems like they have a very different relationship with it than the one she is used to.
Now the big question of what might cause this bubble universe I think is answered by the omega device, we still don't know what it does, but even if it's not my more extreme example, I still think it is the cause of whatever is happening here.
Oh god, a parallel dimension plotline would be even more tired and boring than an "it was all a dream" plotline. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but if there are two things I am entirely sick to death of in literature and the screen, those are it. I would be disappointed if that happened. |
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Post by shaihulud on Nov 6, 2018 1:20:10 GMT
I love alternate universe story lines, and so I hope that's exactly what's going on. I hope there are, like, a dozen alternate universes involved.
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Post by somebunny on Nov 6, 2018 2:18:25 GMT
Also, it just occurred to me that Tony is going to have a very emotional reunion with Annie, seeing as she's been gone for several months at the least. Who wants to take bets on how he's going to react? Is this finally going to be the thing that breaks his shell wide open and he openly cries in public? Or perhaps just what breaks his emotional shell around Annie? Or will he remain ever emotionless? I doubt it, we've already seen what he looks like while flipping out in public during a reunion of several years apart. We couldn't even tell he was having a reaction until later. A special reaction in private during the next reunion? That I can see happening. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Nov 6, 2018 6:55:03 GMT
These pages are reenforcing my spec that Loup's trick was to make a fake Annie. They're confused and paranoid by her presence, and immediately suspect she's a forest trick despite her looking completely human. Granted, they probably think everyone who comes by is a forest spy, they seem like the type. That said, it makes more sense than everyone's memory being wiped. If nobody remembers Anthony had a daughter, they should've called her out for lying and definitely taken her into custody. But as a duplicate, they have a problem to solve: both Annies came from the forest. That means the one in front of them is only 50% likely to be a forest spy. Their behavior makes more sense in that light.
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 6, 2018 7:16:33 GMT
Okay, so I'm out for 2 pages and there's a discussion on Court wide memory manipulation? What the heck you have been smoking? Give me some of it! Seriously, what I interpreted from both these pages is just some external task force dealing with the Court problems after Evac. They had to call more people since the robots are useless and there's hidden breach points where forest creatures keep assaulting the Court from time to time. Them not knowing who a single student is is not a mistery plot to be theorized about, geez That was my initial reaction as well (literally - I was also away for exactly 2 pages)! But then it occurred to me that this guy recognizes Anthony Carver's name, but not the official Forest Medium's name. THEN I remembered that relations with the Forest aren't actually considered all that important by most people in the Court, so maybe it's not that weird for him not to know. And THEN I also remembered that this must be a border patrol of some sort, so surely they of all people would care about Forest relations?
And THEN...well, actually the next thing I noticed was that weird metal pole thing the bald guy is carrying, but that's kind of unrelated. I guess it's a sensor of some kind, like a metal detector? In which case, is it supposed to be a mobile handheld device, or is that pointy end for sticking it in the ground permanently? Or maybe it's just a small part of some larger machine they're -
ANYWAY. To return to my original train of thought, I think maybe they do care about Forest relations, but Annie's been gone just long enough to not be considered important in that area anymore.
I'm pretty sure that metal pole thing's important in some way though.
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Post by philman on Nov 6, 2018 8:35:49 GMT
Okay, so I'm out for 2 pages and there's a discussion on Court wide memory manipulation? What the heck you have been smoking? Give me some of it! Seriously, what I interpreted from both these pages is just some external task force dealing with the Court problems after Evac. They had to call more people since the robots are useless and there's hidden breach points where forest creatures keep assaulting the Court from time to time. Them not knowing who a single student is is not a mistery plot to be theorized about, geez THANK YOU. I'm siding with netherdan and Occam's Razor, here: some people who aren't as personally familiar with Antimony and may not have even been told who she is or that she's missing are in charge of the security situation. But Occam's razor is booooring! Wild speculation is so much more fun! I love alternate universe story lines, and so I hope that's exactly what's going on. I hope there are, like, a dozen alternate universes involved. Oh god I hope not. Alternate universes always just seem like a cop-out when the author runs out of ideas or paints themselves into a corner they can't get out of, and unless played for comedy are a recipe for tying yourself in story knots and leaving everyone dissatisfied and confused. And THEN...well, actually the next thing I noticed was that weird metal pole thing the bald guy is carrying, but that's kind of unrelated. I guess it's a sensor of some kind, like a metal detector? In which case, is it supposed to be a mobile handheld device, or is that pointy end for sticking it in the ground permanently? Or maybe it's just a small part of some larger machine they're -
ANYWAY. To return to my original train of thought, I think maybe they do care about Forest relations, but Annie's been gone just long enough to not be considered important in that area anymore.
I'm pretty sure that metal pole thing's important in some way though.
[/quote] I just assumed it was some kind of cattle prod or stun baton, a weapon to defend himself against weird forest creatures. |
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Post by craftims on Nov 6, 2018 9:46:41 GMT
Oh god, a parallel dimension plotline would be even more tired and boring than an "it was all a dream" plotline. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but if there are two things I am entirely sick to death of in literature and the screen, those are it. I would be disappointed if that happened. Fair enough, it is a little overplayed in media at the moment. I was incredibly tired when I posted that previously.
My main thought was that if there had to be a twist going on I'd like for the omega device to play a part.
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Post by todd on Nov 6, 2018 12:43:24 GMT
Oh god, a parallel dimension plotline would be even more tired and boring than an "it was all a dream" plotline. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but if there are two things I am entirely sick to death of in literature and the screen, those are it. I would be disappointed if that happened. Fair enough, it is a little overplayed in media at the moment. I was incredibly tired when I posted that previously.
My main thought was that if there had to be a twist going on I'd like for the omega device to play a part.
We don't even know if the Omega Device is completed and functioning yet. In any case, its involvement would make the story too complicated - as would the parallel universe, for that matter. I think (and hope) that Tom is too good a writer to put in momentary thrills that wind up causing too many troubles for the story several pages later. |
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Post by faiiry on Nov 6, 2018 12:52:43 GMT
Fair enough, it is a little overplayed in media at the moment. I was incredibly tired when I posted that previously.
My main thought was that if there had to be a twist going on I'd like for the omega device to play a part.
We don't even know if the Omega Device is completed and functioning yet. In any case, its involvement would make the story too complicated - as would the parallel universe, for that matter. I think (and hope) that Tom is too good a writer to put in momentary thrills that wind up causing too many troubles for the story several pages later. Since all this stuff was (presumably, most likely) planned a decade-plus ago, I see no reason why his writing should degrade. It's up to the jury whether it actually has, but the comic has been very well plotted so far, and knowing that, I don't think a random parallel universe twist is going to hit us out of the blue. With that being said, I know some sort of twist is approaching us in this chapter, and I'm struggling to think of an obvious one that I wouldn't label "bad writing." Parallel universe, turning back time, making everybody forget Annie... I don't really like any of those ideas, and I hope it's something more original. But none of it would be a deal-breaker, except "it was all a dream," which might be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and would be a very big straw indeed. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 13:40:24 GMT
I think what has happened is that a significant amount of time has passed and Anthony is now a more well known figure, but Anne has been somewhat forgotten.
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Post by jda on Nov 6, 2018 15:45:29 GMT
Or, as hypothesized before, there have been raids and spies from the forest these last months, so a fake human is totally on the charts.
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Post by todd on Nov 6, 2018 15:47:53 GMT
I think what has happened is that a significant amount of time has passed and Anthony is now a more well known figure, but Anne has been somewhat forgotten. I still think that a large time skip is not only unlikely (Annie does not look noticeably older) but would also make too many problems for the story. Annie and Kat would no longer be the same age, for a start, which would wreck their "parallel and contrast" tone that's been a major part of the comic since Kat's introduction in Chapter Two. Not to mention all the rest of the long catching up to do that would delay the important parts of the story (Loup's threat, his demand for Coyote's gifts to Parley and Smith, etc.). I said it before earlier in this thread, but I'll say it again; I think that Tom is too good a writer to damage the long-term story for the sake of a few cheap short-lived thrills. (And I can't see any long-term benefits for the story to have Annie go back in time, go far forward in time, visit an alternate-universe version of the Court, etc. Nothing, at least, to outweigh the problems and disadvantages.) |
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Post by Runningflame on Nov 6, 2018 16:26:02 GMT
I still think that a large time skip is not only unlikely (Annie does not look noticeably older) but would also make too many problems for the story. Annie and Kat would no longer be the same age, for a start, which would wreck their "parallel and contrast" tone that's been a major part of the comic since Kat's introduction in Chapter Two. ... I think that Tom is too good a writer to damage the long-term story for the sake of a few cheap short-lived thrills. Agreed. The very recent treatise page plays up the parallelism and contrast between Annie and Kat, perhaps more so than any treatise page to date. That's not going to be broken by whatever happens in this chapter. I have similar objections to the "everyone's forgotten Annie" idea: I can't see how it would move the plot forward at all. Whatever Loup has done, it should lead to developments in (at least some of) the other plotlines of the story (e.g. Annie's relationship with her father, the robots' metamorphosis, Kat's plans with her computer, the Omega device, etc.). "Everyone's forgotten Annie" will only delay those plotlines. |
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Post by fia on Nov 6, 2018 18:58:31 GMT
Oh god, a parallel dimension plotline would be even more tired and boring than an "it was all a dream" plotline. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but if there are two things I am entirely sick to death of in literature and the screen, those are it. I would be disappointed if that happened. Fair enough, it is a little overplayed in media at the moment. I was incredibly tired when I posted that previously.
My main thought was that if there had to be a twist going on I'd like for the omega device to play a part.
Welcome to the forums, by the way!  I hope this is not a parallel universe; but I'd be kind of curious to see the plotline where everyone has aged and Annie is still young. Say, if Kat were an adult science genius / mecha angel and her dad were the leader of a scouting defense team keeping an eye on the border with the Forest. I'm starting to think more and more it has to be at LEAST six months, possibly at least a year, maybe even longer, since Annie was gone -–– since the Court was actively looking for her by bombing the forset, and these dudes have no clue who the F she is. Or they do know and are pretending not to. One thought: what if Anthony is in prison?! He has been a bit of an Oppenheimer-like figure; Oppenheimer was stripped of his security clearance during the Red Scare, in a very public hearing. Since Tony technically unilaterally allowed Annie back in the forest (and with Jones gone and shot into space), they might have made him take the flak, and even suspected him of treason. This might even include Kat. What if Shadow and Robot are hiding out in a bunker, and now forming a rebel alliance to find Annie, fight the forest, and save the Court from itself?! Sorry, this should have gone in Wildspec. But I find it plausible. Eglamore might have become rather powerful, finally content to have put Tony back in his place, and Parley might be his remorseful accomplice, feeling duty-bound to protect the Court. Smitty probably is in deep with the bigwigs, but doesn't get a lot of say... hm, sorry, getting ahead of myself again. |
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Post by fia on Nov 6, 2018 19:04:07 GMT
Update on the update: Okay okay, or what if Tony, in his grief, told the Court about Annie & the gang's plan to free Jeanne, and its subsequently leaving the Court vulnerable?! And now the scooby gang is in prison!!! Should still probably put this in Wildspec. But come on, Annie left after dropping a HUGE TRUTH BOMB on the adults. |
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Post by ohthatone on Nov 6, 2018 20:25:10 GMT
Oh god, a parallel dimension plotline would be even more tired and boring than an "it was all a dream" plotline. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but if there are two things I am entirely sick to death of in literature and the screen, those are it. I would be disappointed if that happened. Fair enough, it is a little overplayed in media at the moment. I was incredibly tired when I posted that previously.
My main thought was that if there had to be a twist going on I'd like for the omega device to play a part.
Hi and welcome! IMO the "it's all an illusion" and "it's a parallel dimension" plots are clichéd but I'd always be willing to entertain a well-written version. However I agree that's probably not what is going on here. I think the Omega device will play a part in the Court's response after this all gets sorted, since the Court's fears have basically been realized. Heck, they were already prepared for the Forest to do something like this.
In order to get the Court (or certain people within the Court since I'm not sure the Court Heads actually really care all that much about Annie and wouldn't go to any great lengths to rescue her) to stop searching for her, Loup would have to create a bigger, more important distraction. I wonder if he didn't freeze/capture/incapacitate Kat and/or Tony in some way, two people the Court would be very interested in getting free and extra insurance that Annie would return with the things he wants if she wants her family freed.
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Post by todd on Nov 7, 2018 0:18:13 GMT
[I think the Omega device will play a part in the Court's response after this all gets sorted [/p][/quote] That is, again, assuming that the Omega Device is a weapon or something that can be used as a weapon. So far, all that we know is that it was something that the Court was working on and wanted Antony's help with. We do not know: a) how close it is to completion b) what its purpose is. |
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Post by todd on Nov 7, 2018 0:34:37 GMT
Update on the update: Okay okay, or what if Tony, in his grief, told the Court about Annie & the gang's plan to free Jeanne, and its subsequently leaving the Court vulnerable?! And now the scooby gang is in prison!!! Should still probably put this in Wildspec. But come on, Annie left after dropping a HUGE TRUTH BOMB on the adults. Though that could have its own problems: 1. Making what the Founders did to Jeanne public knowledge (unless the Court comes up with a doctored version of the story in which, say, Jeanne was a traitorous witch planning to betray the Court to the Forest, but her scheme miscarried and turned her into a ghost instead, with Sir Young, Diego, and the rest actually trying to save her). 2. Locking up the Court Medium and the future Protector during an emergency (though the Court could argue that the time for Mediums is over - the only way to handle the forest now is through violence rather than through negotiation). |
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Post by todd on Nov 7, 2018 2:15:59 GMT
As an afterthought, though I still think that the "Loup made everyone forget Annie" is too improbable, I did consider one reason why he might take such an approach.
His attempt to get Annie to stay in the Forest with him, both through temptation and threats, has failed. So he decides on a third route. He lets her go back to the Court, claiming that it's to recover the things Coyote gave Parley and Smith, but has erased everyone's memories of her. Annie will find no welcome there as a result; everyone, including her friends and her father, sees her as a stranger from outside, distrusting her. Loup would then try using that to get Annie to come back to Gilltie Wood with a tone of "There's no longer any life for you at the Court, with no one knowing who you are, so there's nowhere else for you to go but here." (To which Annie retorts something like "And live with the very person who made them all forget me?" - which Loup hadn't counted on.)
Though, despite that possibility, I still hope that there's a different reason for the response Annie got from the border guards.
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Post by craftims on Nov 7, 2018 3:14:13 GMT
Hi and welcome! IMO the "it's all an illusion" and "it's a parallel dimension" plots are clichéd but I'd always be willing to entertain a well-written version. However I agree that's probably not what is going on here. I think the Omega device will play a part in the Court's response after this all gets sorted, since the Court's fears have basically been realized. Heck, they were already prepared for the Forest to do something like this.
In order to get the Court (or certain people within the Court since I'm not sure the Court Heads actually really care all that much about Annie and wouldn't go to any great lengths to rescue her) to stop searching for her, Loup would have to create a bigger, more important distraction. I wonder if he didn't freeze/capture/incapacitate Kat and/or Tony in some way, two people the Court would be very interested in getting free and extra insurance that Annie would return with the things he wants if she wants her family freed.
Thanks!
Fair enough, and you're right about the possibility of a well-written version, personally I'd be happier with that than a time skip, if only because I'm so tired of those in stories, and it could play into how the bubble might work. Either way, I trust Tom.
Fair point on the push towards completing it now, and that might come as the end of this arc.
I'm not sure how that might have worked, but I'd be down to see where that might lead, the only possible agents I could see helping with that are the forest reincarnations, which I admit could be a very interesting turn if the some of the court turned on itself like that.
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Post by Zox Tomana on Nov 7, 2018 8:02:58 GMT
Given Annie was/is the Forest Medium, was under consideration as the Court Medium, and has been involved in past incidents, I think it's a pretty good expectation for her name to be known by Court security folks. Given Anthony Carver's status, as well, it should be expected for them to know he has a daughter, and if that daughter were to be the Forest Medium.... doubly ought to be known. While my initial reaction to their response was "Oh, no, they don't remember her" my other thought has been "Loup made an Annie Doppelganger." I'd counter by asking if you knew the name of your country's ambassador to your country's biggest rival country (ie, if American, the name of the US Ambassador to Russia). If they haven't been in inter-/national news in the last month, I'd guess not. And it's been several months since Annie's disappearance, and so the likelihood of someone not related to or directly working with the Carver family remembering Annie's name is low. These guys seem to be simply "border patrol", and thus not working with or for Tony (and probably not even in the same "department"), and thus have no chance to hear nor reason to remember his long-lost (and presumed dead) daughter's name. But Tony himself is apparently sufficiently important or active enough for them to know his name. Also, it just occurred to me that Tony is going to have a very emotional reunion with Annie, seeing as she's been gone for several months at the least. Who wants to take bets on how he's going to react? Is this finally going to be the thing that breaks his shell wide open and he openly cries in public? Or perhaps just what breaks his emotional shell around Annie? Or will he remain ever emotionless? I would rejoinder with: the Court isn't a country of millions of people, it's a City State of thousands. Once you're down into that scale it becomes more likely for folks to know those who are important, particularly if they belong to an arm such as a security force. Annie's appointment as Forest Medium was neither without controversy, nor without an audience. Coyote's way of getting her back to her job after he father's restriction of her visiting was even MORE public. Even with your counter, how would they NOT know about who the Forest Medium is? She got appointed in a shock development, and was recalled to duty after a building was knocked down in a Coyote tantrum. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 7, 2018 12:03:37 GMT
Or, as hypothesized before, there have been raids and spies from the forest these last months, so a fake human is totally on the charts. With the Forest being frozen in time, I do not see many raids and spies coming from that direction. |
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Post by jda on Nov 7, 2018 20:01:25 GMT
Or, as hypothesized before, there have been raids and spies from the forest these last months, so a fake human is totally on the charts. With the Forest being frozen in time, I do not see many raids and spies coming from that direction. True, true. |
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Post by heranje on Nov 7, 2018 23:35:58 GMT
Personally leaning toward some kind of decoy Annie as the trick. I think Loup either sent back a corpse that looked like Annie, a walking talking doppleganger to take her place, or perhaps had a doppleganger come up to the edge of the forest and declare that Annie was leaving the Court and was going to live in the forest now. Perhaps including a fiery attack on the Court or something else to get her branded as a traitor. The latter would also explain the guard's confused "You'll come with us? Willingly?" - if they know of Anthony Carver's daughter as the traitor who abandoned the Court for the Forest, it'd be very confusing to have her suddenly show up and peacefully walk back into the Court of her own volition.
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Post by todd on Nov 8, 2018 0:13:44 GMT
Personally leaning toward some kind of decoy Annie as the trick. I think Loup either sent back a corpse that looked like Annie, a walking talking doppleganger to take her place, or perhaps had a doppleganger come up to the edge of the forest and declare that Annie was leaving the Court and was going to live in the forest now. Perhaps including a fiery attack on the Court or something else to get her branded as a traitor. The latter would also explain the guard's confused "You'll come with us? Willingly?" - if they know of Anthony Carver's daughter as the traitor who abandoned the Court for the Forest, it'd be very confusing to have her suddenly show up and peacefully walk back into the Court of her own volition. It would have the obvious problem of making it harder for Annie to recover the objects Loup wants, if she's lost the Court's trust. Although, as I've mentioned: 1. Loup might want Annie to fail, so that he can justify war on the Court (which he and his followers seem to want to do anyway; I get the feeling that both Loup and his army of monsters are eager for a fight for its own sake). 2. He could try using the Court's coldness towards Annie to get her to reconsider her refusal to live with him in Gilltie, with a tone of "You've nowhere else to go; your former friends have turned their back on you. It's this or live in a cardboard box in a side alley in some human city." |
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Post by fia on Nov 9, 2018 22:33:22 GMT
These pages are reenforcing my spec that Loup's trick was to make a fake Annie. They're confused and paranoid by her presence, and immediately suspect she's a forest trick despite her looking completely human. Granted, they probably think everyone who comes by is a forest spy, they seem like the type. That said, it makes more sense than everyone's memory being wiped. If nobody remembers Anthony had a daughter, they should've called her out for lying and definitely taken her into custody. But as a duplicate, they have a problem to solve: both Annies came from the forest. That means the one in front of them is only 50% likely to be a forest spy. Their behavior makes more sense in that light. Congrats and cookies for you! |
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