|
|
Post by red4bestgirl on Jun 5, 2018 7:36:37 GMT
It's really clearly not a joke, because then Kat wouldn't be included there. Like. I am trying not to be mean here but do me a favor, don't piss on my leg and tell me that it's raining. The prior objection that it was just fan imagining is slightly less bad but still pretty clearly disingenuous. If we're discussing actual canonical events and/or potentially canonical future events in say, Game of Thrones, and you say, "I like to imagine Cersei and Jon getting married at the end," then you are really bad at following the plot/characters or at best really bad at communicating, because you don't switch from discussing canon to discussing wild cracktheory midstream without some kind of conversational cues implying that that's what you're doing.  Now, look, I mean, I get it, I was being quite snarky and Red and Ayilu were (as she said) kinda friends with Annie until recently, so forgetting that that falling out had happened for a moment really isn't the biggest sin. But that's still the clear and non-disingenuous interpretation of why you would move from discussion of things that are happening/might happen, to wildly out-of-character behavior without any kind of indication that you are aware that you are now discussing cracktheory. |
|
|
|
Post by Angry Individual on Jun 5, 2018 7:51:58 GMT
It's really clearly not a joke, because then Kat wouldn't be included there. Like. I am trying not to be mean here but do me a favor, don't piss on my leg and tell me that it's raining. The prior objection that it was just fan imagining is slightly less bad but still pretty clearly disingenuous. If we're discussing actual canonical events and/or potentially canonical future events in say, Game of Thrones, and you say, "I like to imagine Cersei and Jon getting married at the end," then you are really bad at following the plot/characters or at best really bad at communicating, because you don't switch from discussing canon to discussing wild cracktheory midstream without some kind of conversational cues implying that that's what you're doing. Now, look, I mean, I get it, I was being quite snarky and Red and Ayilu were (as she said) kinda friends with Annie until recently, so forgetting that that falling out had happened for a moment really isn't the biggest sin. But that's still the clear and non-disingenuous interpretation of why you would move from discussion of things that are happening/might happen, to wildly out-of-character behavior without any kind of indication that you are aware that you are now discussing cracktheory. It was a joke.
It's not that deep.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom Siddell on Jun 5, 2018 10:10:38 GMT
You need to tone your posts down to a civil level. The next time I see you post in a way that could be even slightly interpreted as confrontational or aggressive, your account will be disabled. |
|
|
|
Post by faiiry on Jun 5, 2018 14:26:53 GMT
If we can start fighting over something slightly more relevant, I'd love to argue over how Jones and Tony will react next page. It could go any direction. Jones could be like, "We already know all about it," or she could go, "This is incredibly shocking and most disturbing, Antimony. Here, put on this prison uniform." And Tony could say, "I'm disappointed in you" (not a shocker), or he could turn the tables and say, "I'm proud of you; good job." (Personally I'm betting on the latter - just a hunch. Although I've been proven wrong before.)
|
|
fjodorii
Full Member
It just does, ok?
Posts: 134
|
Post by fjodorii on Jun 5, 2018 14:58:58 GMT
If we can start fighting over something slightly more relevant, I'd love to argue over how Jones and Tony will react next page. It could go any direction. Jones could be like, "We already know all about it," or she could go, "This is incredibly shocking and most disturbing, Antimony. Here, put on this prison uniform." And Tony could say, "I'm disappointed in you" (not a shocker), or he could turn the tables and say, "I'm proud of you; good job." (Personally I'm betting on the latter - just a hunch. Although I've been proven wrong before.)
My guess is that the discussion will explore the 'needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' moral dilemma that Todd has already referred to earlier. I would expect Jones to support the logical reasoning of the court masters, and Tony might surprise us all with an empathic view. After all, the ordeals he went through to find a way to connect to Surma after she died were clear acts of love, so in spite of all his behavioral awkwardness, he should be able to appreciate the goal to re-unite Jeanne with her lover, even if it had this side-effect of unleashing the anger of a completely unhinged Ysengrin.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zox Tomana on Jun 5, 2018 23:40:19 GMT
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. A robot can walk across the bridge - but Ysengrin can't (unless Coyote's with him). Shadow-creatures hiding in the robot can cross the bridge with hostile intent - but Ysengrin can't. Annie in an emotional breakdown, crying so hard she can barely see, can run across the bridge - but Ysengrim can't. Some sapient former-human birds can fly across the chasm - but Ysengrin can't walk across the bridge. Kat with her anti-gravity device can fly across the chasm - but Ysengrin can't walk across the bridge. An ordinary bird can fly over the chasm - but Ysengrin can't walk across the bridge. Those tree-wolves laden with shadow creatures in the flashback chapter could get across the chasm somehow, probably using the bridge - but Ysengrin can't. Because Jeanne, who has been shown to murder pretty much anything including psychopomps and robotic devices that go over the water IN the chasm, has a thing for Ysengrin in particular and won't let him - but only him - go over the water ABOVE the chasm. Sorry, I have a problem with this supposition. It would make more sense to say that the Court has other defenses against hostile incursions across the bridge, so Ysengrin crossing the bridge to attack would have been a really bad idea (or, at best, ineffectual) from HIS point of view. It's pretty clear that being able to cross the bridge itself would not have been sufficient. Probably that's where the Court's defenses were concentrated; it's their front gate. Note that the first thing Ysen does after finding out that Jeanne is gone is destroy the bridge. It's no longer necessary. Could he just jumped over the bridge and waters and attacked the Court without Jeanne being able to stop him? I mean, again, that would be bafflingly bad writing if he could, since we are explicitly told twice that it's Jeanne's absence that allowed Ysengrin to attack, a point that is now being brought back up again in the plot. If the answer is, "Oh, that techno-magical defense we set up at the cost of a human soul actually didn't protect anything," then that's simply really bad writing. Jeane prevented anything from incapable of flying from crossing the Annan Waters at any point except at the Bridge. Coyote's attempts to cross that we were shown all involved being down at the water's edge in the chasm. That would be the point of the bridge: allow you to cross without going down into the chasm where you get murdered. We've never been shown Jeanne attacking anything outside the chasm. Why no aerial attacks? Those can be seen coming. Why no frontal attack across the bridge? Same principle and, as you say, it would be a prime point for defense. Until now, Ysengrin could not (as far as we know) fly. Nor have any of the more dangerous seeming forest creatures we've seen (except the wisp) have wings. Nor have we seen any large flying creatures among the forest denizens. The Rogat Orjak have wings, but we've seen no indication of them working for Ysengrin. Jeanne's absence seems to have been the impetus for Coyote to allow Ysengrin to have his strength, and is what now allows for there to be Forest Creatures in the court... but the only reason I know of for Coyote himself to not really have done anything is that he promised to leave the folks on the Court's side alone. No word on any promises about YSENGRIN or others doing anything, as far as we've heard, though... hence the Founders use of Jeanne and the creation of the bridge. The question to answer is: "If Jeanne had still been in play when Coyote had given Ysengrin his strength, and this had all happened anyway, would Ysengrin still have tried to attack? And if he had, would he have succeeded?" In my opinion, yes and yes. Jeanne was bound to protect the Annan Waters. And this is what we have been shown her doing. She killed any who might violate the grave of her lover. Her lover was not buried in the skies over the court, and the bridge keeps people out of his grave (the water). Her domain is restricted. The major difference would be that he may not have sent creatures into the Court in the aftermath of a failed first strike, because those creatures would have had to cross through the waters (and die), over the bridge (destroyed/protected), or cross the roots he grew (equivocal, they're further down in the chasm, but still way up out of the water). We are in fact not told explicitly that Jeanne's absence allows this. We're shown that Jeanne's absence is the *impetus* for it. Tom has never given us information to suggest the Jeanne watches the skies over the chasm, merely that crossing the waters is a deadly enterprise with her in place. |
|
|
|
Post by red4bestgirl on Jun 6, 2018 6:11:30 GMT
You need to tone your posts down to a civil level. The next time I see you post in a way that could be even slightly interpreted as confrontational or aggressive, your account will be disabled. You have at that, my dude. |
|
|
|
Post by red4bestgirl on Jun 6, 2018 6:24:44 GMT
It's pretty clear that being able to cross the bridge itself would not have been sufficient. Probably that's where the Court's defenses were concentrated; it's their front gate. Note that the first thing Ysen does after finding out that Jeanne is gone is destroy the bridge. It's no longer necessary. Could he just jumped over the bridge and waters and attacked the Court without Jeanne being able to stop him? I mean, again, that would be bafflingly bad writing if he could, since we are explicitly told twice that it's Jeanne's absence that allowed Ysengrin to attack, a point that is now being brought back up again in the plot. If the answer is, "Oh, that techno-magical defense we set up at the cost of a human soul actually didn't protect anything," then that's simply really bad writing. Jeane prevented anything from incapable of flying from crossing the Annan Waters at any point except at the Bridge. Coyote's attempts to cross that we were shown all involved being down at the water's edge in the chasm. That would be the point of the bridge: allow you to cross without going down into the chasm where you get murdered. We've never been shown Jeanne attacking anything outside the chasm. Why no aerial attacks? Those can be seen coming. Why no frontal attack across the bridge? Same principle and, as you say, it would be a prime point for defense. Until now, Ysengrin could not (as far as we know) fly. Nor have any of the more dangerous seeming forest creatures we've seen (except the wisp) have wings. Nor have we seen any large flying creatures among the forest denizens. The Rogat Orjak have wings, but we've seen no indication of them working for Ysengrin. Jeanne's absence seems to have been the impetus for Coyote to allow Ysengrin to have his strength, and is what now allows for there to be Forest Creatures in the court... but the only reason I know of for Coyote himself to not really have done anything is that he promised to leave the folks on the Court's side alone. No word on any promises about YSENGRIN or others doing anything, as far as we've heard, though... hence the Founders use of Jeanne and the creation of the bridge. The question to answer is: "If Jeanne had still been in play when Coyote had given Ysengrin his strength, and this had all happened anyway, would Ysengrin still have tried to attack? And if he had, would he have succeeded?" In my opinion, yes and yes. Jeanne was bound to protect the Annan Waters. And this is what we have been shown her doing. She killed any who might violate the grave of her lover. Her lover was not buried in the skies over the court, and the bridge keeps people out of his grave (the water). Her domain is restricted. The major difference would be that he may not have sent creatures into the Court in the aftermath of a failed first strike, because those creatures would have had to cross through the waters (and die), over the bridge (destroyed/protected), or cross the roots he grew (equivocal, they're further down in the chasm, but still way up out of the water). We are in fact not told explicitly that Jeanne's absence allows this. We're shown that Jeanne's absence is the *impetus* for it. Tom has never given us information to suggest the Jeanne watches the skies over the chasm, merely that crossing the waters is a deadly enterprise with her in place. The indirect implication in the text that it is only Jeanne's absence that allows this is incredibly strong, though. Otherwise the scenes with Coyote explicitly talking about Ysen being stopped by Jeanne, repeated shortly after when he consumes Coyote's memories, and then of course brought back again in current arc, really don't make much sense, at that point they're just unfired Chekov's guns. This is of course possible, but it's just kind of fundamentally bad writing at a pretty elementary level if the case. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jun 6, 2018 16:28:00 GMT
If the answer is, "Oh, that techno-magical defense we set up at the cost of a human soul actually didn't protect anything," then that's simply really bad writing. I think you are forgetting that said defense was set up before there was a bridge, that is, when crossing the ravine was still the only way to get to the Court from the Forest. 5) Was releasing her the final trigger to twist Y's mind into performing the attack? A: Yes I respectfully disagree; you cannot know that. In the memories shown, he says he would use Coyote's strength to teach the humans how weak they are. So it is really more plausible that the final trigger for this attack (as it was not his first one; he attacked the Court or its denizens many times before) was Ysengrin receiving said strength and being drunk on his new power. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Jun 6, 2018 16:29:24 GMT
I don't know if this is the right place to bring it up, but I just noticed that we're fast approaching page #2000. I wonder if there will be anything special for that page. In particular since page #1000 actually had a rather significant event. The way the story is progressing means it's probably to early to tell, I just thought I should bring it up. Personally I hope it's Tony doing or saying something actually fatherly. Or deciding he will accompany Annie to the Forest. |
|
