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Post by bgb16999 on Jan 20, 2018 0:09:17 GMT
I wanted to compile a list of all the chapters in which at least one of the two main characters are absent. But it's been awhile since I read through the entire archives instead of just parts of it, and I don't have a perfect memory, so this list is incomplete. I'd appreciate y'all's help filling in. Chapters in which Kat does not appear:
1: The Shadow and the Robot
4: Not Very Scary
22: Ties
23: Terror Castle of the Jupiter Moon Martians
26: The Old Dog's Tricks
28: Spring Heeled, Part 2 36: Red Gets a Name 39: The Great Secret
48: Tall Tales 54: Meetings and Re-Meetings 55: The Breakout 58: A Big Day 68: Neither 72: Perspective 79: Find Yourself 81: The Lake Water 90: Coyote Knew This Would Happen 93: Devil's Due
Chapters in which Kat appears only in the bonus page(s):40: The Stone75: She Gave Us An Ocean Chapters in which Annie does not appear:
22: Ties 56: New Data 75: She Gave Us An Ocean Chapters in which Annie appears only in the bonus page(s):
I don't think there were any. |
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Post by Per on Jan 20, 2018 0:18:09 GMT
Ties has neither?
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stuff
New Member
Posts: 17 
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Post by stuff on Jan 20, 2018 0:37:11 GMT
Pretty sure Kat doesn't appear in Tall Tales.
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Post by madjack on Jan 20, 2018 0:55:34 GMT
Kat also isn't in:
Not Very Scary
Terror Castle of the Jupiter Moon Martians
Spring Heeled, Part 2
Red Gets a Name
Annie and the Fire
Meetings and Re-Meetings
A Big Day!
Red's Friend Gets a Name Too, I Suppose
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Post by Gotolei on Jan 20, 2018 3:50:31 GMT
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Post by Runningflame on Jan 20, 2018 18:32:50 GMT
Nitpick: I don't think I would call the page after "Ties" a bonus page--it's a treatise. Which is different, because a bonus page usually has something to do with the preceding chapter, but a treatise doesn't (and always has Kat and Annie featured prominently, of course). Another way to tell the difference (which I just noticed): bonus pages have the Antimony symbol at the bottom right, while treatises don't. Why it matters here: I think saying that Annie and Kat appear in the "Ties" bonus page implies that they are involved in the chapter somehow, whereas "Ties" is actually the only chapter where neither of them is involved at all.
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Post by bgb16999 on Jan 21, 2018 6:32:11 GMT
Kat also isn't in: Not Very Scary Terror Castle of the Jupiter Moon Martians Spring Heeled, Part 2 Red Gets a Name Annie and the Fire Meetings and Re-Meetings A Big Day! Red's Friend Gets a Name Too, I Suppose Kat does appear in Annie and the Fire.
Also, the back of Kat's head appears in Red's Friend Gets A Name Too I suppose. Otherwise, thanks, Kat is missing a lot more than I thought. Nitpick: I don't think I would call the page after "Ties" a bonus page--it's a treatise. Which is different, because a bonus page usually has something to do with the preceding chapter, but a treatise doesn't (and always has Kat and Annie featured prominently, of course). Another way to tell the difference (which I just noticed): bonus pages have the Antimony symbol at the bottom right, while treatises don't. Why it matters here: I think saying that Annie and Kat appear in the "Ties" bonus page implies that they are involved in the chapter somehow, whereas "Ties" is actually the only chapter where neither of them is involved at all. I was on the fence about whether to count the treatise page as a bonus page. I think you've presented a pretty good argument for not counting it as part of Ties. So, I changed it. |
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Post by madjack on Jan 21, 2018 6:56:00 GMT
I'd argue that is not an 'appearance' of the character, it's another character's memory/thoughts of them, used for the purposes of reflection and not capable of adding anything new to the story. Kat herself is not there. |
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Post by Per on Jan 21, 2018 13:53:02 GMT
Since it's a comic, I would say by default their visual representation is them. Otherwise if for instance a chapter is a flashback/alt-universe/simulation/foo, doesn't anybody appear in it because it's a secondary level of abstraction? There's no hard boundary between the comic medium using a whole panel, the background, a wedge, or a balloon to hold a flashback moment, either could be objective/reliable or subjective/unreliable. So if you want a distinction there, I'd say you should add an "appears only abstractly (relative to the chapter's abstraction baseline)" category or something.
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Post by louisxiv on Jan 27, 2018 21:15:49 GMT
You can also check who and what appears when at the Gunnerkrigg Index page. (Entirely up to date until Monday) |
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Post by warrl on Jan 28, 2018 21:45:47 GMT
Since it's a comic, I would say by default their visual representation is them. Otherwise if for instance a chapter is a flashback/alt-universe/simulation/foo, doesn't anybody appear in it because it's a secondary level of abstraction? There's no hard boundary between the comic medium using a whole panel, the background, a wedge, or a balloon to hold a flashback moment, either could be objective/reliable or subjective/unreliable. So if you want a distinction there, I'd say you should add an "appears only abstractly (relative to the chapter's abstraction baseline)" category or something. I'd draw the distinction slightly differently. Tom showing us Surma (like in "Ties") would count as Surma appearing. Same with an ongoing scene, such as the start of "Broken Glass". Tom showing us Annie remembering Surma, where Surma simply appears in one thought-bubble and doesn't do or say anything, would not. Thing is, there are several ways the decision could be made, and several of them are quite plausibly valid. I can't say that "if the character is on the page it counts" is wrong in any meaningful sense. It just isn't the way I would do it. (And I'm not the one doing it.) |
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 3, 2018 20:16:08 GMT
Unless I've overlooked a background appearance, Chapter 68: Neither does not have Kat in it.
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Post by Per on Nov 3, 2018 22:45:52 GMT
You could say Kat and Annie are both absent in Chapter 68, because every single page shows Neither.
*shot*
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Post by bgb16999 on Oct 4, 2019 3:37:09 GMT
Kat is once again absent in Chapter 72: Perspective
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Post by philman on Oct 4, 2019 8:06:12 GMT
Has Annie technically been absent from every chapter since Loup's appearance? Since we now know that neither of these Annie's is this world's Annie?
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Post by Eily on Oct 4, 2019 8:42:47 GMT
Has Annie technically been absent from every chapter since Loup's appearance? Since we now know that neither of these Annie's is this world's Annie? That's if you assume that Clippy is a reliable character. And even if what Clippy said is true, maybe Sylvannie is the "real" Annie, but she came back to a Court that isn't her own. In which case it's Kat, Rey and all other characters whom we haven't seen since Loup's trick. |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 4, 2019 9:39:28 GMT
Has Annie technically been absent from every chapter since Loup's appearance? Since we now know that neither of these Annie's is this world's Annie? That's if you assume that Clippy is a reliable character. And even if what Clippy said is true, maybe Sylvannie is the "real" Annie, but she came back to a Court that isn't her own. In which case it's Kat, Rey and all other characters whom we haven't seen since Loup's trick. Also, there are other theories, for example that Clippy meant Annie was "not supposed" to be here because she was supposed to die in a previous chapter and was saved due to divine intervention. |
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Post by bgb16999 on Apr 3, 2020 15:09:17 GMT
Kat only appears on the bonus page of Chapter 75: She Gave Us An Ocean, while Annie is absent completely.
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Post by wies on Apr 3, 2020 19:21:45 GMT
Shouldn't there be a category titled "chapters in which neither do appear"?
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Post by bgb16999 on Apr 4, 2020 17:43:15 GMT
Shouldn't there be a category titled "chapters in which neither do appear"? If a chapter appears under both "chapters in which Kat does not appear" and "chapters in which Annie does not appear," then neither character appears in that chapter. Right now, there is only one such chapter: Ties. If the intersection between those two lists grows, I might explicitly list them in another section, but right now I don't think there's much point in doing so. |
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Post by saardvark on Apr 5, 2020 0:23:45 GMT
That's if you assume that Clippy is a reliable character. And even if what Clippy said is true, maybe Sylvannie is the "real" Annie, but she came back to a Court that isn't her own. In which case it's Kat, Rey and all other characters whom we haven't seen since Loup's trick. Also, there are other theories, for example that Clippy meant Annie was "not supposed" to be here because she was supposed to die in a previous chapter and was saved due to divine intervention. Divine meaning "Angel Kat", and slyly referring to the chapter as well.... |
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Post by saardvark on Apr 5, 2020 0:29:42 GMT
That's if you assume that Clippy is a reliable character. And even if what Clippy said is true, maybe Sylvannie is the "real" Annie, but she came back to a Court that isn't her own. In which case it's Kat, Rey and all other characters whom we haven't seen since Loup's trick. Also, there are other theories, for example that Clippy meant Annie was "not supposed" to be here because she was supposed to die in a previous chapter and was saved due to divine intervention. You know, this does bring up a point: most folk thinking about the "not supposed to be here" theory have marked Annie's cancelled demise to be the "falling off the bridge but saved by Tick-Tocks" episode. Annie's rescue from death could also have been by Zimmy, in Divine.... (did someone suggest this before? I forget...) |
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Post by mturtle7 on Apr 7, 2020 23:57:03 GMT
Also, there are other theories, for example that Clippy meant Annie was "not supposed" to be here because she was supposed to die in a previous chapter and was saved due to divine intervention. You know, this does bring up a point: most folk thinking about the "not supposed to be here" theory have marked Annie's cancelled demise to be the "falling off the bridge but saved by Tick-Tocks" episode. Annie's rescue from death could also have been by Zimmy, in Divine.... (did someone suggest this before? I forget...) ...amazingly, I don't think anyone has! I certainly didn't, and I can't remember anyone in Wildspec or the page threads that did!
Which is actually really weird, now that I think about it. Annie has only been clearly, explicitly, on the verge of death twice in the comic: when she fell off the bridge in Chapter 7, and when Tony almost drained away her life essence in Chapter 38. If the Tic-tocs split the timeline in the former, it seems like it would make just as much sense for Zimmy to split the timeline in the latter! We even already know that her powers can muck things up with time!
I guess the falling scene in Chapter 7 was a lot more striking as an "Annie is about to die" moment, especially since it included a classic cliffhanger and some poignant "final thoughts. Plus, the connection between the Tic-tocs, Kat, and time travel was already a long-standing theory, it just seemed natural for everyone (including me) to just identify that and then forget about the scene in Divine. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 8, 2020 3:34:15 GMT
There was also the incident in the aftermath of dealing with Jean, where Annie formally accepted something involving the psychopomps... common speculation is that she is now officially a psychopomp. Since none of the others are alive in the usual sense of the word, maybe that's where she was supposed to step outside the material world.
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 8, 2020 12:35:27 GMT
There was also the incident in the aftermath of dealing with Jean, where Annie formally accepted something involving the psychopomps... common speculation is that she is now officially a psychopomp. Since none of the others are alive in the usual sense of the word, maybe that's where she was supposed to step outside the material world. Was this ever officially confirmed? Because they can obviously be killed. |
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Post by saardvark on Apr 8, 2020 12:50:27 GMT
Also, there are other theories, for example that Clippy meant Annie was "not supposed" to be here because she was supposed to die in a previous chapter and was saved due to divine intervention. You know, this does bring up a point: most folk thinking about the "not supposed to be here" theory have marked Annie's cancelled demise to be the "falling off the bridge but saved by Tick-Tocks" episode. Annie's rescue from death could also have been by Zimmy, in Divine.... (did someone suggest this before? I forget...) Imagine Tony's self loathing and guilt, if he actually HAD killed Annie (if Zimmster's intervention was unsuccessful or never took place)... |
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Post by bgb16999 on Mar 21, 2021 17:56:46 GMT
Kat was once again absent from Chapter 79.
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Post by bgb16999 on Sept 3, 2021 20:31:00 GMT
Chapter 81: The Lake Water is the latest chapter to not have Kat.
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Post by bgb16999 on Aug 8, 2023 2:59:41 GMT
Unless I missed it, Chapter 90:Coyote Knew This Would Happen lacks Kat as well.
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Post by bgb16999 on Nov 22, 2023 16:19:48 GMT
Kat speaks in the main part of Chapter 91, but she does not actually appear until the bonus page (and only as her mecha form). EDIT: Never mind: that isn't the bonus page, it's the last regular page.
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