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Post by faiiry on Oct 20, 2017 15:39:36 GMT
So, now I'm wondering how many times that Tony has only been seen with 1 other person in the comic. There's obviously this part with Surma, and then there's when Tony and Kat are talking about making him a hand (and Kat even comments to Annie that he's different when there aren't other people.) It's true that every time we see Tony alone with somebody in the comic, he's a totally different person. Here, he's alone with Donny. He was alone with Surma here before Annie interrupted. Both times, he's pretty emotional. |
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Anthony
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No, not THAT guy.
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Post by Anthony on Oct 20, 2017 17:40:26 GMT
It's interesting that Tony seems to be OK with this situation, not less, but not more. Surma made the first move. He didn't resist, but he also didn't say he was happy or excited or whatever. He merely asked about social consequences.
We know Surma's feelings, but what are Tony's?
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Post by antiyonder on Oct 20, 2017 18:21:07 GMT
So, if it wasn't for the fact that this was a flashback and we knew what became of them, would anyone possibly think of Surma dealing with James in a more fatal way?  |
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Post by Runningflame on Oct 20, 2017 18:27:12 GMT
Hm, so the "group date" idea was exactly the wrong strategy to get Tony and Brinnie together. Their friends should have kidnapped them and locked the two of them in a room instead.
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Post by Angry Individual on Oct 20, 2017 18:52:09 GMT
Several things I got from this:
1. Haha I was right, he does hate being around the court/multiple people. It was pretty obvious, but yeah.
2. At least he had James in mind, though I'll agree with an earlier poster in that I have a sinking feeling James and Surma's relationship was going downhill already, so this was probably the final nail in the coffin for it.
3. This explains them leaving the court, actually. It explains a lot of things.
4. It's stated at this happens over the course of a month, as mentioned on page 1888.
Anyways I hope we get a snippet into the Surma/James break up. I just wanna see the giant cartoony eyes when Surma walks in happily and smiling like an idiot with a stone-cold Tony in tow.
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Post by fish on Oct 20, 2017 20:19:43 GMT
I like the framing in the last panel, Tom using his comicking skillz.
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Post by arf on Oct 20, 2017 20:52:08 GMT
Tony acts differently one on one, except with Antimony. Is it because he always thinks he's with Surma as well? (NB: at hospital, he would likely only interact with Annie when her mother was present. It explains this scene) "Your next mission, Ms. Carver, should you choose to accept..." |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Oct 20, 2017 21:02:33 GMT
Just had a thought.
Surma saying she'll "deal with him"...
Perhaps....
Surma dealing with James...
Is why....
James feels so burned
yeeeaaaaaaah!
I apologize.
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Post by Nepycros on Oct 21, 2017 0:06:15 GMT
Oh man, if Annie actually corners her father and basically twists his arm until he opens up to her, imagine how much damage could be prevented in the future.
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yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
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Post by yinglung on Oct 21, 2017 1:16:04 GMT
I think people hoping for a more human Tony when one-on-one with Annie will be disappointed. She will probably see more emotion than before, but he still has a lot of complicated feelings arising when he interacts with her. My bet is, it will take a while, or something rather traumatic before the two will be able to interact normally around each other. I'm kinda curious, now, to see how he would react to seeing Annie in any sort of danger.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 21, 2017 1:32:45 GMT
While this chapter has shed some light on Surma as a character I think what will be more illuminating by far will be how and when she breaks up with JimmyJims... if it's shown in the comic (or at least referenced by Anja). Dating isn't marriage but even if she wasn't cheating on a steady bf there is the possibility for a rep-damaging narrative to emerge from these events. Assuming things proceed in a linear fashion: Will she break up with James immediately or keep her options open? When she does break up with James, will Surma she make sure that her version of events is widely circulated before any alternate opinions come out? If so Eggers will be the last to know he's been dumped. Will there be a calculated period of time between the breakup and when Surma openly dates Anthony? I don't think Anthony would object to being kept on the dl. Or will Surma keep what happened in the jungle a secret and find or make some pretext for breaking up with Jimmy down the road? If so, picking a fight in a public place is traditional; the surrounding crowd and the strategic surprise usually keep a potentially ugly breakup from escalating immediately. And a break-up over something nonsensical would explain Eggman's confusion over how Surma wound up with Anthony. Or perhaps we'll see some sort of crazy scheme (from Surma? or from Eggers?). [edit] And welcome to the forum, subversiveasset ! [/edit] |
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Post by torontoregonian on Oct 21, 2017 2:26:31 GMT
Hmm...curiouser and curiouser. Now I'm kinda wondering, by this time, was ANYA aware that Tony's personality completely altered when he was alone with someone? Is this actually a warning in disguise? Like she had talked to Tony without Donald around and seen that side of him, and had reacted similarly, but couldn't articulate it without sounding crazy? |
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Post by fia on Oct 21, 2017 18:41:37 GMT
We know Surma's feelings, but what are Tony's? Note the text on the bottom of the page where Tony says he had always thought Surma's makeup was "sexy": Tom says, "Pretty much always, yeah." Tom seems to be indicating that Tony has had feelings for Surma for a long time but has never acted on them. It might explain some of the weirdness with Brinnie... maybe he couldn't say he liked Surma because even then she was going out with James. |
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Post by fia on Oct 21, 2017 19:05:54 GMT
I also want to add: my general hypothesis on Surma x James is that she is probably now cheating on him. 1. Tom is not committed to ensuring all his characters seem thoroughly good like Pollyannas (and in fact in general have proven to have mixes of good and bad inclinations and good and bad judgment) 2. It is a normal process of growing up to discover that your parents are not perfect, as Annie and we are finding out about her own parents, and particularly Surma, who was evidently her favorite parent 3. Surma is one of the last totems in our narrative, she always seemed like a distant iconic figure than a real person, until this chapter. So to me, at least, it's not surprising that her real self would shatter some of our prior expectations of her. She has, after all, been well-established as an impulsive, proud person who always did what she wanted. Also re: all these people still asking, "Why Tony?" (1) Donnie noted he was a 'handsome guy' when Brinnie was into him; (2) There can be a way that someone who discloses themselves only to some people can make you feel very special if they disclose themselves to you – I suspect that Tony's easygoing demeanor around her makes Surma feel special. (3) Tony is clearly a caring, nurturing guy with Surma. He holds her when she feels scared, doesn't baby her, but is a self-starter and doesn't shy away from offering to make food, prepping coffee, ensuring she has what she needs, checking in to see if she is comfortable, etc. These are marks of maturity. We dunno what James is like. But going by his raw passion in this segment, James has less temper control by far than Tony; and he has not forgotten or forgiven or constructively moved on from what happened with a former girlfriend over a decade ago, which may make sense under certain circumstances, but is the mark of a pretty heavy and possibly possessive person. Just my 2¢. (4) Tony has been shown to be brave and adventurous, have a sense of humor, and also be really smart. (5) Tony is Surma's best friend's boyfriends' best friend. Viz., he knows and is trusted by people she knows and trusts. Pretty good background for relationship material. (6) But most of all, don't forget the power of instant and inexplicable chemistry. Just cause you don't feel it don't mean they don't. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Oct 21, 2017 21:43:29 GMT
"Then we can find a way to be alone. Together. I was thinking you'd mortally impregnate me and we woudln't tell anyone which hospital I'm going to."
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 21, 2017 23:06:28 GMT
Hm, so the "group date" idea was exactly the wrong strategy to get Tony and Brinnie together. Their friends should have kidnapped them and locked the two of them in a room instead. Wouldn't have worked since Brinnie insisted on Tony making the first move, even whough she was the one who was interested. |
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Post by arf on Oct 22, 2017 0:33:26 GMT
Hm, so the "group date" idea was exactly the wrong strategy to get Tony and Brinnie together. Their friends should have kidnapped them and locked the two of them in a room instead. Wouldn't have worked since Brinnie insisted on Tony making the first move, even whough she was the one who was interested. Lock them in a room with a chess set. Tony gets white. |
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Post by warrl on Oct 22, 2017 3:37:50 GMT
What, are they doing a concert in town tonight?
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Post by gunnerscrag on Oct 22, 2017 4:28:50 GMT
The more I read this the more I feel bad for Eggy Eggs
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Post by Runningflame on Oct 22, 2017 5:59:43 GMT
We know Surma's feelings, but what are Tony's? Note the text on the bottom of the page where Tony says he had always thought Surma's makeup was "sexy": Tom says, "Pretty much always, yeah." Tom seems to be indicating that Tony has had feelings for Surma for a long time but has never acted on them. It might explain some of the weirdness with Brinnie... maybe he couldn't say he liked Surma because even then she was going out with James. Suddenly this chapter make a lot more sense. I've been putting myself in Tony's shoes (our personalities have some similarities) and thinking, "I would be totally freaking out if some friend I barely knew started coming on to me like that!" But change "friend I barely knew" to "friend I'd secretly been attracted to for a long time but never got up the courage to say anything," and-- WELL! That changes things a lot. (I personally would prefer to have the relationship-clarification talk before any lip-locking, but different strokes for different folks I guess.) |
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Post by snowflake on Oct 22, 2017 9:38:10 GMT
(including whether the Renard fiasco has happened by this point or not). It seems to me that at the time of these events, Renard already believes Surma is in love with him, but hasn't taken Daniel's body yet. This is from the fact that Renard believes at some point, and tells Annie, that Tony has lured Surma away from him. If I'm right, it's almost certain that the Renard incident hastened Surma's decision to leave the court and sever all ties. |
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Post by faiiry on Oct 22, 2017 17:20:52 GMT
(including whether the Renard fiasco has happened by this point or not). It seems to me that at the time of these events, Renard already believes Surma is in love with him, but hasn't taken Daniel's body yet. This is from the fact that Renard believes at some point, and tells Annie, that Tony has lured Surma away from him. If I'm right, it's almost certain that the Renard incident hastened Surma's decision to leave the court and sever all ties. When Renard steals Daniel's body, we see Eglamore, Donny and Anja rush to her aid, but not Tony. This is probably insignificant (Tony isn't qualified to deal with the problem while the other three are), but I thought I would mention it anyway. |
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Post by antiyonder on Oct 22, 2017 20:23:11 GMT
2. At least he had James in mind, though I'll agree with an earlier poster in that I have a sinking feeling James and Surma's relationship was going downhill already, so this was probably the final nail in the coffin for it. And in an alternate continuity, Surma's plan to deal with James is him ending up in a coffin about six feet under. |
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Post by pyradonis on Oct 22, 2017 22:31:32 GMT
It seems to me that at the time of these events, Renard already believes Surma is in love with him, but hasn't taken Daniel's body yet. This is from the fact that Renard believes at some point, and tells Annie, that Tony has lured Surma away from him. If I'm right, it's almost certain that the Renard incident hastened Surma's decision to leave the court and sever all ties. When Renard steals Daniel's body, we see Eglamore, Donny and Anja rush to her aid, but not Tony. This is probably insignificant (Tony isn't qualified to deal with the problem while the other three are), but I thought I would mention it anyway. You know, I've always wondered whether those three were actively involved in the plan of trapping Renard. On the page you linked we see Anja is already using her magitek spell which is used to bind Renard. I don't suppose she programmed that in the short time between Surma telling the Court Renard had gained the ability to take bodies and the four of them (don't forget Sivo) actively engaging him. So...what made that Surma think of her friends? Even if it was a coincidence (they were in fact not involved in the plan and Anja did not have the program specifically designed to bind Renard), it may have influenced Surma's decision to cut off contact with those three. I almost think I should post this in the WS thread... |
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Noka
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Post by Noka on Oct 23, 2017 1:00:35 GMT
I think the thing most interesting to me about this page comes from a commenter on the comic page: "Annie's definitely been around her father when it's just her and him before... Right? Maybe it's something where, when he sees Antimony he also sees Surma so he feels like there's more than one person there? I just don't know what to think."
Kind of the most impressively well-planned thing I've now realized is that this plays perfectly into the fact that Annie and Surma could never be apart: once Surma died, Annie was sent off to the Court... so Annie has never before actually spent time alone with her father. Not counting the time she spends at the court, where he sees double and all.
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Post by arf on Oct 23, 2017 6:58:40 GMT
Something about timelines probably needs raising.
Surma and Tony would be late teens/early twenties in this flashback.
The gang seem to be in their mid-late forties currently. This would mean that Surma had Annie at least ten years after this incident.
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ST13R
Full Member
Quiet little mouse
Posts: 171
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Post by ST13R on Oct 23, 2017 7:44:14 GMT
Something about timelines probably needs raising. Surma and Tony would be late teens/early twenties in this flashback. The gang seem to be in their mid-late forties currently. This would mean that Surma had Annie at least ten years after this incident. . |
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Post by philman on Oct 23, 2017 7:52:18 GMT
I wonder if people's reactions to the supposedly sudden Surma/Tony relationship have anything to do with the age of those who read it. Older people seeing it as "ah teenagers, it's pretty normal for people dating throughout high school to meet someone else and break up once the adult world arrives", and younger people still seeing the teenage dating scene as a big important thing that Surma is violating the boundaries of.
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Post by snowflake on Oct 23, 2017 8:08:09 GMT
I think the thing most interesting to me about this page comes from a commenter on the comic page: "Annie's definitely been around her father when it's just her and him before... Right? Maybe it's something where, when he sees Antimony he also sees Surma so he feels like there's more than one person there? I just don't know what to think." The fact that he can be fun and relaxed when alone with one person, doesn't mean he can be that way for any person. He's got a ton of guilt, shame and unresolved resentment in him about Annie, so she's not just any person. Kind of the most impressively well-planned thing I've now realized is that this plays perfectly into the fact that Annie and Surma could never be apart: once Surma died, Annie was sent off to the Court... so Annie has never before actually spent time alone with her father. Not counting the time she spends at the court, where he sees double and all. Annie and Surma couldn't be apart, but not to the point you couldn't get one of them alone in a room. If psychopomps could take Annie with them on their missions without Surma, then her father could have spent some time with her. |
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Post by speedwell on Oct 23, 2017 8:16:25 GMT
I wonder if people's reactions to the supposedly sudden Surma/Tony relationship have anything to do with the age of those who read it. Older people seeing it as "ah teenagers, it's pretty normal for people dating throughout high school to meet someone else and break up once the adult world arrives", and younger people still seeing the teenage dating scene as a big important thing that Surma is violating the boundaries of. As a thrice-married middle-aged woman, I'm saying both things. It doesn't matter how old you are, breaking up hurts and cheating hurts. In many ways it's easier as an adult because you have more freedom and more options. And as we already know, nobody in this situation makes it out without damage. Even Donald and Anja grieve in their own ways. |
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