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Post by pyradonis on Jun 27, 2017 10:58:30 GMT
This seems to be brought up regularly, but it is only Paz's opinion, and I honestly doubt she sees the whole picture. I did wonder, after Juleette and Arthur revealed the real reason for their visit, if this might be intended as another step in Kat's perspective on the Court (and possibly the audience's). We know that Kat's been extremely distrustful and suspicious towards the Court ever since she found out about how the Founders murdered Jeanne, displaying it even in the most recent chapter. Now she sees that a couple of the people spying upon her have different, and more sympathetic, goals than just power, control, and unscrupulous scheming. While I don't expect the comic to ever reach the point where Kat will excuse Jeanne's murder (I certainly hope it won't), I think it is leading her to a point where she'll see the people running the place as more than just a band of ruthless, conniving conspirators straight out of the Inner Party in "1984" or N.I.C.E. in "That Hideous Strength". But neither Kat nor the readers have yet met the "people running the place" (except, maybe, for Mr. Llanwellyn). Juliette and Arthur do not seem to be that high up in the hierarchy. To quote someone a bit more experienced with the Court than Paz: Eglamore: "You only see the parts of the Court that it wants you to see. [...] Bureaucracy does not even begin to describe it."And Tony, who, according to Eggers, is "in deeper than most": "Like a fool, I thought I could escape the Court's eye." |
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 27, 2017 15:00:00 GMT
This seems to be brought up regularly, but it is only Paz's opinion, and I honestly doubt she sees the whole picture. I did wonder, after Juleette and Arthur revealed the real reason for their visit, if this might be intended as another step in Kat's perspective on the Court (and possibly the audience's). We know that Kat's been extremely distrustful and suspicious towards the Court ever since she found out about how the Founders murdered Jeanne, displaying it even in the most recent chapter. Now she sees that a couple of the people spying upon her have different, and more sympathetic, goals than just power, control, and unscrupulous scheming. While I don't expect the comic to ever reach the point where Kat will excuse Jeanne's murder (I certainly hope it won't), I think it is leading her to a point where she'll see the people running the place as more than just a band of ruthless, conniving conspirators straight out of the Inner Party in "1984" or N.I.C.E. in "That Hideous Strength". Agreed. I actually think while Kat will never find a way to excuse Jeanne's murder, she may at least find reason in it, which could cause a horribly interesting rift in her and Annie's relationship. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 28, 2017 8:54:05 GMT
I cannot imagine this. Jeanne and her green lover were unjustly trapped for hundreds of years, there is no way Kat could ever come to see the decision of freeing them as anything else than the right thing to do. Not without a fundamental change in her character at least.
If the shadow men, or some other monsters from the forest are really so dangerous that only a psycho rage ghost of hate could keep them out, the reasonable thing for the Founders would have been to move away. Pack their things up and build a new Court in some other place. Which they already had done once (they were the Founders after all!) But instead they chose to rather murder one of their own so they could stay.
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Post by todd on Jun 28, 2017 12:43:02 GMT
I cannot imagine this. Jeanne and her green lover were unjustly trapped for hundreds of years, there is no way Kat could ever come to see the decision of freeing them as anything else than the right thing to do. Not without a fundamental change in her character at least. If the shadow men, or some other monsters from the forest are really so dangerous that only a psycho rage ghost of hate could keep them out, the reasonable thing for the Founders would have been to move away. Pack their things up and build a new Court in some other place. Which they already had done once (they were the Founders after all!) But instead they chose to rather murder one of their own so they could stay. I've thought the same thing. I certainly can't imagine Kat ever concluding that the Founders were right to murder Jeanne and her lover. I also agree that moving away would have been a better solution, if difficult. (A couple of years ago, I had to move when the neighborhood had an upsurge in crime and my apartment was even broken into. I didn't enjoy it, but I recognized the necessity.) I suspect that the Founders would have rejected that solution, however, since the new location wouldn't have the Bismuth Seed, and its absence would hamper their work. (Which leads to the question of whether the Court should be doing what it's doing in the first place.) |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 28, 2017 16:49:43 GMT
Interesting. Have we ever had any hint on whether the Seed Bismuth was unable to be physically moved to another place, or if it imbues the structures with some other properties apart from being "grown"?
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Post by todd on Jun 29, 2017 0:02:01 GMT
Interesting. Have we ever had any hint on whether the Seed Bismuth was unable to be physically moved to another place, or if it imbues the structures with some other properties apart from being "grown"? I don't know about that - but I do suspect that something about Gilltie Wood and its environs might make it the only place where the Court *can* carry out its experiments - that no other location in the world will fit (much like the Founders' statement that Jeanne was the only person who would work for their scheme). |
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Post by jda on Jun 29, 2017 0:30:17 GMT
- that no other location in the world will fit (much like the Founders' statement that Jeanne was the only person who would work for their scheme). I do not think that comparison is quite correct- I see Diego saying as evidence of his meddling and adjusting of "the plan" (maybe there was no need of murdering anyone, even) for his personal revenge. |
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Post by warrl on Jun 29, 2017 3:50:15 GMT
- that no other location in the world will fit (much like the Founders' statement that Jeanne was the only person who would work for their scheme). I do not think that comparison is quite correct- I see Diego saying as evidence of his meddling and adjusting of "the plan" (maybe there was no need of murdering anyone, even) for his personal revenge. Yeah, I think Diego picked Jeanne because she had the peculiar property of having rejected his advances, not because of anything relevant to the situation. To what extent the other founders were aware of that, is not known. |
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Post by aline on Jun 29, 2017 10:30:19 GMT
I do not think that comparison is quite correct- I see Diego saying as evidence of his meddling and adjusting of "the plan" (maybe there was no need of murdering anyone, even) for his personal revenge. Yeah, I think Diego picked Jeanne because she had the peculiar property of having rejected his advances, not because of anything relevant to the situation. To what extent the other founders were aware of that, is not known. I think it was both. Diego's plan made use of Jeanne's love. Trapping someone else's soul down there would not have produced the same effect of a vengeful ghost defending the river, they would not be suffering the same maddening rage. So at this stage the Court couldn't have just swapped Jeanne with someone else. But the plan itself was devised in this way by Diego because he wanted revenge. He then sold it to the Court as a way to defend the Annan rivers, but it was never his first concern. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 29, 2017 11:17:11 GMT
I expect they could have built a new Court in some other place, but chose this solution because it was much more convenient, and they felt superior to the forest creatures anyway, so they would not have to admit defeat by "dull minded animals trying to create a nuisance". I am trying hard not to bring real-world politics into this, but maybe someone else from Germany reads this and thinks of a certain 13-letter-word starting with a- and ending with -s, like me?  |
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Post by todd on Jun 29, 2017 14:01:51 GMT
I expect they could have built a new Court in some other place, but chose this solution because it was much more convenient, and they felt superior to the forest creatures anyway, so they would not have to admit defeat by "dull minded animals trying to create a nuisance". Yes, I think pride had a lot to do with it. It was probably why they didn't try the other possible solution that didn't involve killing Jeanne - talking to the forest-folk over their grievances. "Humiliate ourselves by speaking with those creatures as if they were our equals? Never!" (It might not have done much good, even if they had. I suspect that the main complaint of the forest-folk was the Court's experiments - they must have seen those as dangerous tampering - and there's no way the Court would agree to abandon them. A further obstacle, of course, was that a lot of the forest-folk, including Ysengrin, prefer snarling and other threats of violence - if not the actual violence - over diplomacy. Presumably the Medium system hadn't been set up yet.) |
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Post by jda on Jun 29, 2017 15:31:17 GMT
Yeah, I think Diego picked Jeanne because she had the peculiar property of having rejected his advances, not because of anything relevant to the situation. To what extent the other founders were aware of that, is not known. I think it was both. Diego's plan made use of Jeanne's love. Trapping someone else's soul down there would not have produced the same effect of a vengeful ghost defending the river, they would not be suffering the same maddening rage. So at this stage the Court couldn't have just swapped Jeanne with someone else. But the plan itself was devised in this way by Diego because he wanted revenge. He then sold it to the Court as a way to defend the Annan rivers, but it was never his first concern. Yeah, for all his technical wonders, Diego could have built a self repairing army of S-13, with all the fencing abilities required, or something else |
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Post by jda on Jun 29, 2017 15:31:42 GMT
I think it was both. Diego's plan made use of Jeanne's love. Trapping someone else's soul down there would not have produced the same effect of a vengeful ghost defending the river, they would not be suffering the same maddening rage. So at this stage the Court couldn't have just swapped Jeanne with someone else. But the plan itself was devised in this way by Diego because he wanted revenge. He then sold it to the Court as a way to defend the Annan rivers, but it was never his first concern. Yeah, for all his technical wonders, Diego could have built a self repairing army of S-13, with all the fencing abilities required, or something else, to defend the ravine. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 29, 2017 17:39:17 GMT
Maybe he got elaborate fencing robots working only in carefully controlled environments like the tomb.
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