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Post by saardvark on Jun 12, 2017 17:01:01 GMT
considering their original creator created many robots with instructions to love, I don't think it's far fetched for the later generations to be built with the same unconscious instructions/ability, even if the object of the original love is gone. she died and we did nothing hmmm, Diego programs many robots to love Jeanne. They also obey him - he is their "father". But dad conspires to murder their love. Seems to set up a massive AI conflict/guilt-trip, excellent source of glitchy functioning, ala H.A.L. Also why the robots are so driven to better understand humans, emotions, and the life organic. And why they begin to worship Kat, who is organic, but begins to understand them as well as their "father" Diego. It all kinda hangs together (and some of this was probably covered in your Mecha-Angel thesis! Apologies for any repeats, I read it a while ago...). |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 12, 2017 17:16:23 GMT
she died and we did nothing hmmm, Diego programs many robots to love Jeanne. They also obey him - he is their "father". But dad conspires to murder their love. Seems to set up a massive AI conflict/guilt-trip, excellent source of glitchy functioning, ala H.A.L. Also why the robots are so driven to better understand humans, emotions, and the life organic. And why they begin to worship Kat, who is organic, but begins to understand them as well as their "father" Diego. It all kinda hangs together (and some of this was probably covered in your Mecha-Angel thesis! Apologies for any repeats, I read it a while ago...). No worries! More MechaAngel speculation is always good speculation  |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 12, 2017 17:21:22 GMT
How are they going to explain to the rest of the shadowmen how Arthur suddenly has a biological body? They must be reporting on the progress of Kat's work even though they are keeping Kat's other extra curricular activities secret. That would explain where Arthur's biological body came from, but not why Arthur ended up with the body. Deep undercover infiltration of the subject under surveillance? They may also plan to hide it. Most humans don't pay much attention to robots, and it's possible Juliette is the only human who really interacts with Arthur at all. Haw! Arthur can wear a mustache and a name tag while he confidently tells anyone who notices that he's always looked this way. |
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Post by saardvark on Jun 12, 2017 17:42:14 GMT
The robots, back in Sky Watcher and the Angel, say they're trying to understand human emotion. Perhaps until Kat taught them about Diego's love, they saw love as a malfunction and locked up the romantic robots... Actually, Diego's "love" was rather of the "malfunctioning" sort (human type) itself! Hopefully the robots will come to understand the many different forms love can take, some healthy and life-affirming, some not so.... (part of the problem is that English has only one word for it all.... why didn't it appropriate more foreign words for various species of love? Being a mutt, accretional language, it is usually quite good at that....) |
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Post by saardvark on Jun 12, 2017 17:43:27 GMT
They may also plan to hide it. Most humans don't pay much attention to robots, and it's possible Juliette is the only human who really interacts with Arthur at all. Haw! Arthur can wear a mustache and a name tag while he confidently tells anyone who notices that he's always looked this way. boingy antennae with stars on the end seem to work as well.... |
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Post by aline on Jun 12, 2017 17:57:22 GMT
They may also plan to hide it. Most humans don't pay much attention to robots, and it's possible Juliette is the only human who really interacts with Arthur at all. Haw! Arthur can wear a mustache and a name tag while he confidently tells anyone who notices that he's always looked this way. From everything we know about typical robot levels of subtlety, that may be a viable tactic :-p But really, I think if Arthur just started to wear clothes and Juliette made some half-hearted excuse to justify it, Court people would dismiss it as some peculiar but irrelevant eccentricity. Lots of silly stuff goes on at the Court all the bloody time. Girls falling from the moon looking for their rabbit, bizarre mechanical birds flying around the place, ghosts who are terrible at spooking people roaming the corridors, minotaurs hiding in the basement.
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Post by mithrandir on Jun 12, 2017 18:20:55 GMT
But really, I think if Arthur just started to wear clothes and Juliette made some half-hearted excuse to justify it, Court people would dismiss it as some peculiar but irrelevant eccentricity. Lots of silly stuff goes on at the Court all the bloody time. Girls falling from the moon looking for their rabbit, bizarre mechanical birds flying around the place, ghosts who are terrible at spooking people roaming the corridors, minotaurs hiding in the basement. Honestly, I rather expect that the relationship between Arthur and Juliette is one of the Shadow Men's most poorly kept secrets already, at least among themselves. It could be the start of trouble for the two if the other Shadow Men start asking questions, but we don't know enough about how rigorous the organization is - we've only ever seen the two of them. For all we know, it's a cell-based secret org flying below the radar of GC as a whole (in order to help the official org chart maintain plausible deniability), in which case Shadow Man cells keeping secrets from each other would be trivially easy. That said, in reference to the Love Boat arc, I do hope Kat's initial reaction is along the lines of "Oh no, not again". |
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 12, 2017 18:42:17 GMT
Mystery is solved. More unexpected that it should have been. This, too. This is unexpected and nice and all. But isn't this still a shakedown? What if Kat refuses? Is her knowledge of this secret enough to keep these star-crossed lovers from reporting on her? It's more the other way around - her little secret seems to be an insurance that Kat in turn keeps their little meeting very hush hush. |
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Post by Nepycros on Jun 12, 2017 19:54:20 GMT
So if we look at this from the perspective of many Court residents, Arthur is just an appliance, even if Juliette treats him with the respect normally due toward a romantic colleague/coworker/friend. In this case, where the robot is considered not sentient, this would be like asking Kat to endow a toaster with sentience for the sake of getting Juliette's rocks off. The appliance is not made for love, as the Court might say.
There are so many philosophical implications to this. If Kat becomes willing to endow organic levels of sentience to anything, is there a moral obligation to give it to everything? Does refusing to give a robot a body have the same implication as negligence because of the potential life not being created despite being possible? Do all tools have the same "right" to be given an organic body? A hammer? A ship? Boxbot?
Will having an organic robot body and a regular old boring robot body result in a system of second class citizens among robotkind? Almost certainly.
How will this change the philosophy of robots? For them, life is movement, but the paradigm changes once you've stepped into the realm of organics, where measured responses and periods of inactivity are vital for survival.
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Post by warrl on Jun 12, 2017 20:28:24 GMT
g-gross, this is like forcing your artist friend to draw lewds You mean NSFW art? Like this? |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 12, 2017 20:31:26 GMT
The robots, back in Sky Watcher and the Angel, say they're trying to understand human emotion. Perhaps until Kat taught them about Diego's love, they saw love as a malfunction and locked up the romantic robots... Actually, Diego's "love" was rather of the "malfunctioning" sort (human type) itself! Hopefully the robots will come to understand the many different forms love can take, some healthy and life-affirming, some not so.... (part of the problem is that English has only one word for it all.... why didn't it appropriate more foreign words for various species of love? Being a mutt, accretional language, it is usually quite good at that....) Personally I have just adopted the greek words. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love |
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 12, 2017 20:44:40 GMT
If I was reading this from 10 years in the future I'd probably think it was hilarious. Right now all I can muster is a tired "You've got to be kidding me." THIS is where the story leads??? ...so you're bothered by this, but not the fact that the emotional climax of the highly-foreshadowed Jeanne arc was a zombie returning a hair clip? Where did she say she wasn't? And yes, that hair clip was pretty disappointing. But, yes, I understand faiiry's disappointment very well. I was personally hoping to finally see some consequences coming from the Court's side. But who knows, now I'm hoping for the other Shadow Men, or the real secret police to be aware of this meeting and taking steps accordingly. (On the other hand, the Court has seemed eerily silent on other matters as well, like their non-reaction to the whole Torn Sea story.)ohthatone Avatar Someone asked Tom this (because, of course, if two people have the same skin tone, they must oviously be related, right?), and Tom denied it. In my opinion, Kat does not give the robots sentience, they already are sentient, Kat gives them other bodies which enable them to perceive things like an organic being. I see it as Kat not giving them sentience, but rather evolving them (which befits a scientific type like her). In that case, not giving them organic bodies when having the means to do it safely would be more akin to not giving a person missing a limb a robotic limb. |
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Post by mordekai on Jun 12, 2017 21:20:16 GMT
IT HAS STARTED! DOOMSDAY IS HERE! TIME TO PANIC AND RIOT! GO OUT, BURN SOME CARS AND TRASH CONTAINERS AND LOOT SOME STUFF!
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Post by Runningflame on Jun 12, 2017 23:27:52 GMT
Working on a user installation and migration here, and reflecting, "how naive is it of Juliette to think that the monitoring stuff she controls is the only monitoring there is?" I don't, in fact, think that Juliette actually believes this. Reminds me of how Tony said he'd disabled all the surveillance... while Annie was etherically surveilling him with Donald's help. |
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Post by todd on Jun 12, 2017 23:53:35 GMT
I was personally hoping to finally see some consequences coming from the Court's side. But who knows, now I'm hoping for the other Shadow Men, or the real secret police to be aware of this meeting and taking steps accordingly. (On the other hand, the Court has seemed eerily silent on other matters as well, like their non-reaction to the whole Torn Sea story.)ohthatone Avatar I think that part of the point might be that the Court is not a monolithic structure, but many people all with their own goals and agendas. Even the guys at the top may not be in as much control as they think they are (or they want other people to believe). And, yes, the Court's doing nothing during all of "The Torn Sea" remains a great mystery. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 13, 2017 0:53:34 GMT
Well, I don't think that anyone predicted this development. I haven't checked all across the internets but it looks like keef and one guy in the comments along with half of the Butt Zone did predict this or something like this. But to be fair the Butt Zone always predicts something like this. |
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Post by puntosmx on Jun 13, 2017 1:33:22 GMT
How are they going to explain to the rest of the shadowmen how Arthur suddenly has a biological body? They must be reporting on the progress of Kat's work even though they are keeping Kat's other extra curricular activities secret. That would explain where Arthur's biological body came from, but not why Arthur ended up with the body. Deep undercover infiltration of the subject under surveillance? "Yes, sir. We seized her prototype for field testing. We've found it works better than anticipated." |
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Post by puntosmx on Jun 13, 2017 2:36:01 GMT
The robots, back in Sky Watcher and the Angel, say they're trying to understand human emotion. Perhaps until Kat taught them about Diego's love, they saw love as a malfunction and locked up the romantic robots... Actually, Diego's "love" was rather of the "malfunctioning" sort (human type) itself! Hopefully the robots will come to understand the many different forms love can take, some healthy and life-affirming, some not so.... (part of the problem is that English has only one word for it all.... why didn't it appropriate more foreign words for various species of love? Being a mutt, accretional language, it is usually quite good at that....) Well, in your language you can use "caring" and "affection". I do consider those degrees of love. There is a theory that languages develop words for that their speakers have more. This is why innuit have many words for white and english has a zillion for brightness and darkness. Regarding love, I find spanish fits well enough ^_^ Actually, Diego's "love" was rather of the "malfunctioning" sort (human type) itself! Hopefully the robots will come to understand the many different forms love can take, some healthy and life-affirming, some not so.... (part of the problem is that English has only one word for it all.... why didn't it appropriate more foreign words for various species of love? Being a mutt, accretional language, it is usually quite good at that....) Personally I have just adopted the greek words. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_loveI find greek words too..... academic? But well, they work. And borrowing from greek and latin has always been in fashion for all languages  |
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Post by jda on Jun 13, 2017 2:44:57 GMT
Could this be... fake? Like, counter spionage? Maybe they are lying all around, to encourage Kat to work harder "for love"...
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Post by kayback on Jun 13, 2017 7:02:34 GMT
This strikes me as less of a shakedown and more of a personal plea for help.
If they were there legitimately they would not be hiding from the other Shadow Men.
It is of a similar vein to the Love Boat except the affection appears to be mutual and they are asking, not forcing.
And Chapter 113 only says spurn poor poetry. D tacky gifts. Maybe Arthur is a great poet and has good taste.
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Post by ohthatone on Jun 13, 2017 13:53:03 GMT
Someone asked Tom this (because, of course, if two people have the same skin tone, they must oviously be related, right?), and Tom denied it. Err, yeah and also when you're in a comic that deals heavily in familial relations. Thanks for the clarification. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 13, 2017 14:42:50 GMT
"Love makes you act in strange ways" I could have sworn I read somewhere that Juliette is Margot's mom, but I can't find that reference anywhere, perhaps I hallucinated it? Fanfics? Someone asked Tom this (because, of course, if two people have the same skin tone, they must oviously be related, right?), and Tom denied it. What's with straw? It's a comic big on semblance and ancestry, and there are how many details close out of how many existing? In other news, there's more than one way for them to be possibly related. |
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Post by warrl on Jun 13, 2017 16:37:33 GMT
In other news, there's more than one way for them to be possibly related. According to some estimates, the most recent person who is ancestral to essentially all living humans lived not earlier than 3000 BC. (This is in large part due to European explorers of the 16th and 17th centuries AD - before that, the "Most Recent Common Ancestor" (MRCA) was quite a bit earlier.) Smaller groups often have more recent MRCAs. For Europeans, it's believed to be about 1000 AD. (The MRCA does not represent a genetic bottleneck. There would have, at the same time, been many other people who are now ancestral to some, but not all, living humans. Along with some who are ancestral to nobody.) |
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Post by brilliantgrey on Jun 13, 2017 21:34:00 GMT
This chapter has completely blindsided me twice now.
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Post by arf on Jun 13, 2017 23:17:32 GMT
What does Robot get to do while Arthur tries on the flesh intended for him?* (Presumably his old chassis is stored somewhere)
*Of course, Robot's new body may be lacking some desirable bits.
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Post by puntosmx on Jun 14, 2017 2:09:15 GMT
What does Robot get to do while Arthur tries on the flesh intended for him?* (Presumably his old chassis is stored somewhere) *Of course, Robot's new body may be lacking some desirable bits. Well, maybe they want a new body with... ejem... custom parts. Like telescopic sights, special antennae and sensors for surveillance. ....... yes, that's what I was thinking  |
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Post by faiiry on Jun 14, 2017 13:30:38 GMT
If I was reading this from 10 years in the future I'd probably think it was hilarious. Right now all I can muster is a tired "You've got to be kidding me." THIS is where the story leads??? ...so you're bothered by this, but not the fact that the emotional climax of the highly-foreshadowed Jeanne arc was a zombie returning a hair clip? Is that how you interpreted it? I saw the "climax" of that chapter as Annie freeing Jeanne and her lover and finally helping them escape their prison, and also as Annie being entrapped by the psychopomps. The hairclip was just one small part of it. And I don't really think the whole thing is over yet. As for the Shadow Men, I definitely thought the storyline would lead to Kat dramatically getting in deep doo-doo for all her shady activities, not to Kat helping Juliette get it on with her robot boyfriend. Forgive me for being underwhelmed, I guess? |
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Post by jda on Jun 14, 2017 14:40:16 GMT
Remember, this is not the kind of comic (yet?) where 2 starcrossed lovers got helped by kids to fulfill their dream, and got away of the Court,... well, derp.
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Post by warrl on Jun 14, 2017 15:13:50 GMT
I think the cast of Gunnerkrigg Court need to read Freefall. |
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Post by todd on Jun 15, 2017 0:26:36 GMT
As for the Shadow Men, I definitely thought the storyline would lead to Kat dramatically getting in deep doo-doo for all her shady activities, not to Kat helping Juliette get it on with her robot boyfriend. Forgive me for being underwhelmed, I guess? I wonder if part of the point is to show that the people who run the Court are individuals with their own desires and goals, rather than a faceless organization of schemers. (And the former definitely fits the atmosphere of the comic more.) Not to mention that getting Kat in trouble with the Court could make it difficult to do much with the character after that. |
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