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Post by Jelly Jellybean on May 9, 2017 16:30:33 GMT
But not the courage and integrity to make any effort to prevent it. He didn't even warn Jeanne. "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing." - John Stuart Mill True; I'd also noticed that he didn't stop the Founders. I've wondered what became of him. Did he leave the Court in protest? Did the Founders silence him (though in a different way, since we saw no sign of his ghost down in the ravine)? Did he swallow his misgivings later? Maybe a future chapter will answer that question. (It's a bit surprising that Annie and Kat have, so far, not asked about him at all. Maybe they were too focused on the main story in Diego's recording to give any thought to the side character.) Annie and Kat tried finding the Artilleryman's final record, but they didn't have his name and it is unclear whether Annie and Kat think the guy who disagreed with the Court's plan is the Artilleryman. We only know he is because Tom confirmed it during a chapter retrospective. |
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Post by todd on May 10, 2017 0:20:42 GMT
That is making an assumption that the court is, in its existence, a good thing. Yes. I'm leery of any group that's setting out to "become God" - though we don't know if that's what the Court sees itself as striving for or if that's how Coyote interprets it. It's certainly a good description of what that meddling with the ether would do, assuming that that's one of the Court's main goals. I don't look upon the Court as utterly corrupt. As I've mentioned, I get the impression that its goal really is scientific investigation and study (I certainly can't imagine even the upper-echelon members embarking on a world domination scheme, which wouldn't fit the tone of the comic, in any case), and its worst deeds seem confined to the people at the very top (as opposed to, say, Eglamore or the Donlans). Whatever happens to the Court at the end, I hope it won't be some cataclysmic downfall - and that if something like that *does* happen, that the students and the teachers escape before the disaster strikes. But I do think that the "Lords of the Court" have done a lot of dark things - and I haven't seen any evidence that the Court's even produced anything useful or beneficial to justify all the scheming and underhanded behavior (assuming that anything could). |
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Post by puntosmx on May 10, 2017 1:48:24 GMT
True; I'd also noticed that he didn't stop the Founders. I've wondered what became of him. Did he leave the Court in protest? Did the Founders silence him (though in a different way, since we saw no sign of his ghost down in the ravine)? Did he swallow his misgivings later? Maybe a future chapter will answer that question. (It's a bit surprising that Annie and Kat have, so far, not asked about him at all. Maybe they were too focused on the main story in Diego's recording to give any thought to the side character.) There is a lot we don't know. Like why the Founders needed a forest dweller to be shot with the green arrow and caught forever in that etheric maze/prison. It is possible that while Jeanne was used as a decoy she wasn't supposed to die. Her heart might have been too connected with her lover or she was caught in the backwash of the mechanical spell or she willed her spirit to stay until her lover was released. I don't know if there is word from Tom on that particular issue. Both Jeanne and her love became part of something the Court thought was necessary. Was it protection? A warding? We discuss if anyone is going to lose a job or be expelled. That could be small potatoes compared to what might really at stake. Could this lead to the downfall of the Court and the elimination of the school? When the plan is exposed, Diego states Jeanne must be the one sacrificed. I am of the oppinion that the arrow was part of a more complicated barrier scheme, but there is no page I can point at to support my theory. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on May 10, 2017 3:15:08 GMT
There is a lot we don't know. Like why the Founders needed a forest dweller to be shot with the green arrow and caught forever in that etheric maze/prison. It is possible that while Jeanne was used as a decoy she wasn't supposed to die. Her heart might have been too connected with her lover or she was caught in the backwash of the mechanical spell or she willed her spirit to stay until her lover was released. I don't know if there is word from Tom on that particular issue. Both Jeanne and her love became part of something the Court thought was necessary. Was it protection? A warding? We discuss if anyone is going to lose a job or be expelled. That could be small potatoes compared to what might really at stake. Could this lead to the downfall of the Court and the elimination of the school? When the plan is exposed, Diego states Jeanne must be the one sacrificed. I am of the oppinion that the arrow was part of a more complicated barrier scheme, but there is no page I can point at to support my theory. The motivation for the scheme is clear from that page you linked: the purpose of the sacrifice is to "fortify the Annan Waters and protect the Court." As to why shoot green guy? Seems to me to have been to ensure Jeanne was trapped there by both the power of the arrow, and her devotion to her lover. She was lowered down, thinking they'd escape and... then was forced to see her lover die, and left alone in her grief to slowly die away. Nothing may cross, in one interpretation, because anything which trespasses the water trespasses in the grave of her lover. Her power? The skill and power she had in life... perpetuated by grief and empowered by hatred. The arrow clearly traps the spirit of the target within it, so using it on Jeanne would be pointless. Better to use it on the one person in the world she values above all others, and to whom she is dedicated above all other loyalties. And so she became an immortal, avenging spirit, forever protecting the grave of her love... and as a by-product preventing anything from crossing the Annan to threaten the Court. From the next page, it is clear that it didn't have to be Jeanne... It only had to be her because Diego felt betrayed by her and wanted revenge on her and her lover for his broken heart and shattered pride. Jeanne did, however, possess qualities which made her a perfectly applicable sacrifice. |
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Post by warrl on May 10, 2017 5:50:16 GMT
From the next page, it is clear that it didn't have to be Jeanne... It only had to be her because Diego felt betrayed by her and wanted revenge on her and her lover for his broken heart and shattered pride. Jeanne did, however, possess qualities which made her a perfectly applicable sacrifice. I don't think that scheme would have worked with anyone else the Court had on hand - nobody else had the right sort/strength of ties to someone from the forest. However, perhaps there were other ideas that would have been comparably effective in defending the court, without the murder and betrayal... and Diego wanted revenge on Jeanne so much that he either never mentioned them or talked the others out of them. |
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Post by arf on May 10, 2017 6:15:14 GMT
There is a lot we don't know. Like why the Founders needed a forest dweller to be shot with the green arrow and caught forever in that etheric maze/prison. It is possible that while Jeanne was used as a decoy she wasn't supposed to die. Her heart might have been too connected with her lover or she was caught in the backwash of the mechanical spell or she willed her spirit to stay until her lover was released. I don't know if there is word from Tom on that particular issue. Both Jeanne and her love became part of something the Court thought was necessary. Was it protection? A warding? We discuss if anyone is going to lose a job or be expelled. That could be small potatoes compared to what might really at stake. Could this lead to the downfall of the Court and the elimination of the school? When the plan is exposed, Diego states Jeanne must be the one sacrificed. I am of the oppinion that the arrow was part of a more complicated barrier scheme, but there is no page I can point at to support my theory. A hawk seems to be closely linked to the Archer. This culminates in the ROtD's description of the arrow. I don't know the significance. This symbolism isn't directly linked to Kat's version of the Device. But then, Kat. Birds. |
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Post by todd on May 10, 2017 12:40:07 GMT
However, perhaps there were other ideas that would have been comparably effective in defending the court, without the murder and betrayal... and Diego wanted revenge on Jeanne so much that he either never mentioned them or talked the others out of them. I've suspected that as well; certainly it was extremely useful for Diego. It allowed him to get revenge on Jeanne and her lover without getting tried for murder - make the local government his accomplices. I could imagine other reasons besides Diego, though, for why the Court might turn down alternate solutions. Talking with the forest-folk, for example - "Humiliate ourselves by negotiating with mere animals as if they were our equals? Never! We'd sooner be slaughtered by them than forfeit our dignity!" (Also, I suspect that a lot of the reason why the forest-folk were so unhappy with the Court was those experiments with the ether - and the Court's not going to give those up.) |
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Post by pyradonis on May 10, 2017 13:17:21 GMT
That is making an assumption that the court is, in its existence, a good thing. Yes. I'm leery of any group that's setting out to "become God" - though we don't know if that's what the Court sees itself as striving for or if that's how Coyote interprets it. It's certainly a good description of what that meddling with the ether would do, assuming that that's one of the Court's main goals. I don't look upon the Court as utterly corrupt. As I've mentioned, I get the impression that its goal really is scientific investigation and study (I certainly can't imagine even the upper-echelon members embarking on a world domination scheme, which wouldn't fit the tone of the comic, in any case), and its worst deeds seem confined to the people at the very top (as opposed to, say, Eglamore or the Donlans). Whatever happens to the Court at the end, I hope it won't be some cataclysmic downfall - and that if something like that *does* happen, that the students and the teachers escape before the disaster strikes. But I do think that the "Lords of the Court" have done a lot of dark things - and I haven't seen any evidence that the Court's even produced anything useful or beneficial to justify all the scheming and underhanded behavior (assuming that anything could). During WW2, they were "assisting with the war effort". But since the Court obviously is keeping all their advanced tech and discoveries for themselves instead of sharing with the rest of human society, they probably just supported the British forces to protect themselves. However, the British government, at least, should be aware of the existence of Gunnerkrigg Court, after all, the kids they recruit as students are not classified as "missing". Does the government never come to look what exactly is happening in this place? On the other hand, I'm not really familiar with British law. Does Great Britain have compulsory education? |
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Post by todd on May 10, 2017 13:52:00 GMT
However, the British government, at least, should be aware of the existence of Gunnerkrigg Court, after all, the kids they recruit as students are not classified as "missing". Does the government never come to look what exactly is happening in this place? Maybe the Court uses various schemes to get the British government to look the other way (bribery, blackmail, etc.). |
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Post by puntosmx on May 11, 2017 0:00:39 GMT
When the plan is exposed, Diego states Jeanne must be the one sacrificed. I am of the oppinion that the arrow was part of a more complicated barrier scheme, but there is no page I can point at to support my theory. The motivation for the scheme is clear from that page you linked: the purpose of the sacrifice is to "fortify the Annan Waters and protect the Court." As to why shoot green guy? Seems to me to have been to ensure Jeanne was trapped there by both the power of the arrow, and her devotion to her lover. She was lowered down, thinking they'd escape and... then was forced to see her lover die, and left alone in her grief to slowly die away. Nothing may cross, in one interpretation, because anything which trespasses the water trespasses in the grave of her lover. Her power? The skill and power she had in life... perpetuated by grief and empowered by hatred. The arrow clearly traps the spirit of the target within it, so using it on Jeanne would be pointless. Better to use it on the one person in the world she values above all others, and to whom she is dedicated above all other loyalties. And so she became an immortal, avenging spirit, forever protecting the grave of her love... and as a by-product preventing anything from crossing the Annan to threaten the Court. From the next page, it is clear that it didn't have to be Jeanne... It only had to be her because Diego felt betrayed by her and wanted revenge on her and her lover for his broken heart and shattered pride. Jeanne did, however, possess qualities which made her a perfectly applicable sacrifice. Certainly that's the basic scheme. Gaining an avenging spirit that would kill even the Guides who dare trespass. But there's a possibility the arrow had some extra effect. Some mystical effect beyond just trapping Jeanne in front of her lover's watery grave. |
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Post by Zox Tomana on May 11, 2017 15:59:29 GMT
The motivation for the scheme is clear from that page you linked: the purpose of the sacrifice is to "fortify the Annan Waters and protect the Court." As to why shoot green guy? Seems to me to have been to ensure Jeanne was trapped there by both the power of the arrow, and her devotion to her lover. She was lowered down, thinking they'd escape and... then was forced to see her lover die, and left alone in her grief to slowly die away. Nothing may cross, in one interpretation, because anything which trespasses the water trespasses in the grave of her lover. Her power? The skill and power she had in life... perpetuated by grief and empowered by hatred. The arrow clearly traps the spirit of the target within it, so using it on Jeanne would be pointless. Better to use it on the one person in the world she values above all others, and to whom she is dedicated above all other loyalties. And so she became an immortal, avenging spirit, forever protecting the grave of her love... and as a by-product preventing anything from crossing the Annan to threaten the Court. From the next page, it is clear that it didn't have to be Jeanne... It only had to be her because Diego felt betrayed by her and wanted revenge on her and her lover for his broken heart and shattered pride. Jeanne did, however, possess qualities which made her a perfectly applicable sacrifice. Certainly that's the basic scheme. Gaining an avenging spirit that would kill even the Guides who dare trespass. But there's a possibility the arrow had some extra effect. Some mystical effect beyond just trapping Jeanne in front of her lover's watery grave. Well, it was shown to be capable of ensnaring spirits/etheric projections. Makes it impossible for the struck being to be released into the ether. It also tore through the RotD, according to Vampire Dude, wrecking their information on Jeanne, and probably absolutely erasing anything to do with her lover. Heck, the only reason we ever knew he existed was the people around him, specifically Jeanne. I have a strong feeling that the only people remaining who know of him are Annie & co. and the immortals like Ysengrin, Rey, and Coyote... and that's assuming they actually knew the dude. For a good long while no one with either the Guides or the RotD knew who this ghost was. Not only did the Founders take normal efforts to erase Jeanne from history, the arrow also undertook mystical effects to get rid of knowledge of her in the etheric realms. |
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Post by todd on May 12, 2017 0:30:25 GMT
Well, it was shown to be capable of ensnaring spirits/etheric projections. Makes it impossible for the struck being to be released into the ether. It also tore through the RotD, according to Vampire Dude, wrecking their information on Jeanne, and probably absolutely erasing anything to do with her lover. Heck, the only reason we ever knew he existed was the people around him, specifically Jeanne. I have a strong feeling that the only people remaining who know of him are Annie & co. and the immortals like Ysengrin, Rey, and Coyote... and that's assuming they actually knew the dude. For a good long while no one with either the Guides or the RotD knew who this ghost was. Not only did the Founders take normal efforts to erase Jeanne from history, the arrow also undertook mystical effects to get rid of knowledge of her in the etheric realms. All of which, if true, makes the Court's action all the worse - a violation of the natural order, cutting a gash in it, as well as committing double murder. |
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