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Post by ohthatone on Mar 8, 2017 14:30:03 GMT
Welp, she may not have know what a chair was until a couple years ago, but she knows exploitation when she sees it. Though I agree we may learn the extent of exactly what Annie promised to the psychopomps soon. Even if Antimony didn't trust the Court or her father to help Jeanne, as opposed to covering things up or using Jeanne for experiments or destroying her, there were Jones and the Donlans. Jones would have made an excellent distraction. There were probably other people in the Wood and the Court she could have asked for help. She could have sought out people with resources and possibly more experience with hostile ghosts. Maybe she could even have used diplomatic channels to insist that the Court do something. She could have anonymously spread the info about Jeanne to make sure the Court couldn't cover things up and create sympathy for future action. And probably other stuff that I haven't thought of. But... Doing that, particularly asking an adult for help, would have meant giving up some or all control over the situation. They might have told her to wait, or done things in a way she didn't like. As long as Antimony and her crew kept the info tight they ran the show. And she probably believed they had it in the bag when Ayilu's power was able to hold Jeanne. (my response in blue because I don't know why it's being lumped in with imaginaryfriend's post and I don't know how to fix.) I agree, I think she could have sought help from Jones pretty easily, and who would have been preferable to face off against Jeanne. Jones obviously has a sense of right and wrong and I would think would agree that the ends did not justify the means. Annie's even gone through her before when she needed to circumvent the Court. So I really hope Andrew didn't get a knife in the chest just because Annie (and the others--they are not exempt from poor decisions they made) wanted total control. And sorry about oddball formatting, I have no idea what I did. |
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 8, 2017 14:37:07 GMT
Well, we finally know Red's power. The back of Honest Blame's hand. Red isn't right about everything, but I think her emotional summary, of using the fairies, is spot on.
This could be an opportunity for Annie to show some maturity. She could simply say, Red's right about Annie using them. Then, she could mention she indebted herself with the psychopomps for Andrew, and that she would have done the same for Red or Ayilu. Sometimes, confrontation is about everyone winning.
I'm glad Red's saying this. Just as long as, it doesn't lead to Annie pulling a SPEW.
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Post by Trillium on Mar 8, 2017 14:47:04 GMT
Youth? Impulsiveness? The lure of getting Blue Ayilu a name? Though to be fair, as Red continues on it does sound like she's bordering on revisionist history. I can't tell if I agree with that or not because I can't come up with an analogy that I like. Partly that's because I don't know enough about fairy naming in the wild. Is [snuffle] typical or an exception? Who usually names them? Their peers? Friends? Their parent(s)? The age cohort above them, or elders (do they even have elders)? Is it based on a trait or event, or just a label that sounds good (like Bugsy)? And is the reason the Court doesn't give names to transfers right away because they don't want to attract faeries/other beings who're just in it to make a name for themselves? Guessing that it's usually peers who name a wild fairy, and that it's like getting full membership in a group or gang when they get their names, I think what Red is accusing Antimony of is baiting them into her plans and into danger in a way that defeats the purpose of the name Ayilu got. Or in other words that Antimony by her actions showed that she wasn't acting like a friend/peer/team player and therefore the name is a fraud. I'm also guessing Ayilu will rein in Red a bit, just going by the expression on her face. Red is being a little insulting to Ayilu in a passing sort of way as well as (perhaps) crapping all over her new name. IAWTC: there's just too much we don't know about both the cultural and etheric limitations of fairy naming. In the Ars Magica setting, for example, fairies are literally incapable of certain kinds of creativity: they can't even give birth without human aid. Whereas here, Red seems to have named Ayilu herself. Is that legit? Are there going to be consequences if people find out fairies can name other fairies? Good question. Did Red name Ayilu? Or did it happen when Annie sort of agreed to the name. Red would suddenly have a lot of power if she can now name fairies. Or if fairies can name themselves that would change the whole dynamics of their relationship with the Court. Getting a verbal smackdown from Red in the aftermath of all the drama of setting Jeanne and her lover free may just the beginning of Annie's headaches. We don't know how Andrew is feeling, what exactly happened to Robot and then there is whatever is going on with Coyote. |
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Post by rosebud on Mar 8, 2017 14:57:52 GMT
If Aliyu/Blue was stabbed by Jeanne, then she wasn't just in it for a name. (And is she still damaged by it? Or did it awaken her?) Similarly, since Red was there, she was involved, too.
So, yes, while Red is making good points, she is also deflecting. She lied when she did the naming by refusing to admit her feelings. And she is not recognizing that she had skin in the game, too.
A better response by Annie would be to point these two things out to Red, but the event and blame are presumably too raw right now for Annie to say either of those in response.
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 8, 2017 15:06:25 GMT
Being offered a reward does sap some of the purity out of Blue's agreeing to help. Everyone else was there entirely of their own volition, even Red.
Prediction: this argument will end when, in the heat of the discussion, Red instinctively refers to Ayilu as Blue, thus naming her properly.
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 8, 2017 16:27:42 GMT
It's kind of hard for me to take the whole Smitty thing seriously at this point, honestly, now that it's become clear the whole reason he got stabbed and Parley didn't BIP him off to a hospital the first chance she got was so Annie could get shackled to the psychopomps. It all just seems too contrived for me to blame anyone but Tom. As I recall, the theory was that Parley was in too shocked a state to teleport. Granted, Tom should have probably made that clearer in the text. (Perhaps a beta-reader could have pointed that out to him; remember, he's writing this entirely on his own.) That was my theory until the price for the psychopomp's help was revealed. Then I was just like 'Oh, that's why'. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 8, 2017 16:41:48 GMT
Well, we finally know Red's power. The back of Honest Blame's hand. That would fit with her ability to see through Ayilu's illusions. Maybe Red's power actually is to remain unaffected by girls' bullshyte and drama. That would probably be very useful, growing up. my response in blue because I don't know why it's being lumped in with imaginaryfriend's post and I don't know how to fix. That happens to me sometimes. The only thing that I know to do is copy the post every time before posting and then edit/paste/save/repeat until it sticks. And always check links to make sure Proboards didn't truncate them. |
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Ender
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Post by Ender on Mar 8, 2017 16:42:56 GMT
As I recall, the theory was that Parley was in too shocked a state to teleport. Granted, Tom should have probably made that clearer in the text. (Perhaps a beta-reader could have pointed that out to him; remember, he's writing this entirely on his own.) That was my theory until the price for the psychopomp's help was revealed. Then I was just like 'Oh, that's why'. I thought she didn't BIP because Annie insisted they wait. I guess what's surprising is that she listened, but oh well. For what it's worth, I kind of agree with Annie's call, because with a stab wound that bad he probably would have died at the hospital anyway, but at least this way he got to live, because Magic™. |
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Post by jda on Mar 8, 2017 16:45:39 GMT
Annie, supreme fae exploiter
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Post by goldenknots on Mar 8, 2017 16:50:44 GMT
Looking at Ayilu's return to the conversation, I am now anticipating some more interesting revelations as to her character as well. That, or vengeance...
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Post by mashivan on Mar 8, 2017 16:58:15 GMT
I kind of figured this would eventually come from Jones. Getting it from Red not only stuns Annie, but probably tells the audience we've been underestimating the character. I know I was. Comic relief is easy to pigeon hole, it's a sign of how good GC is that comic relief is not just comic relief. Oh, and prediction: Annie will fire back (no pun intended) that she already did suffer a consequence out of this, and reveals whatever it is she gave up to the psychopomps. I would like to see Annie explain the price she paid to save Smitty, but I don't think Annie is going to open up to Red even to defend herself. Annie may even pull a full Anthony. Oh man, I really like the idea of Annie going full Anthony. It would be both fitting and horrifically bad. My hope, is that she really doesn't |
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Post by Zox Tomana on Mar 8, 2017 17:13:26 GMT
As I consider this, and how Annie truly did not just leave Andrew to to bleed out, but did her part to get rid of the rage ghost AND made a deal with the 'pomps to heal Andrew... it makes me feel that Red saying she did is...
fae-k news.
I apologize. I'll see myself out.
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Post by linkzeldi on Mar 8, 2017 18:15:30 GMT
Red's not acknowledging the grey areas of the situation sure, but that's not really the point when calling out somebody else. Annie's problem has always been a lack of empathy towards other, and that extends to not understanding the consequences of her own actions and how they effect others. I think it's important to call her out on it this time, because next time the consequences may be ever worse. Therefore it's good for her to learn it this time, when they managed to get out of it without anybody dying.
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 8, 2017 19:12:28 GMT
Red: nobody's fool. (Who knew?) Also: I'm calling not-a-short-chapter. When we had a one-page chapter, there was a lot of dramatic lead-up, tension building, and a title page that all made it look like we were in for a big showdown. And then we weren't. This, on the other hand, doesn't have a big dramatic buildup; therefore, it will be big and dramatic. Is it too early to claim my cookie? |
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Post by crater on Mar 8, 2017 20:40:15 GMT
it seemed like Annie knew the psychopomps would have to give a boon. Her total disregard for Andrew was because she knew he wasn't in any real danger(if she succeeded)
tho, if it wasn't for Kat they'd all be dead, so....
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Post by warrl on Mar 8, 2017 21:48:45 GMT
I must lodge a protest. There is nothing whatsoever inherently wrong, dishonest, or exploitative in Annie giving something she doesn't value much, but someone else places a high value on, in exchange for something Annie values more.
Non-coerced trade involves one party giving up something they place a low value on, in exchange for something they place a higher value on... and the other party, coincidentally, ALSO giving up something they place a low value on, in exchange for something they place a higher value on. Because if that doesn't describe the circumstances, the trade is a loss for at least one party and possibly both (trading $5 bills costs some time and energy), so will generally not be agreed to.
Ayilu apparently valued the chance of getting a name sufficiently high to justify putting her life at some risk. Perhaps that was foolish on her part... perhaps she underestimated the risk... but Annie had no hand in causing such errors, unless she concealed or misrepresented information Ayilu needed to evaluate how risky the situation would be. So does this mean Ayilu was exploiting Annie? Nope. Absent fraud, and considering there was no coercion, neither of them was exploiting the other.
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Post by Zox Tomana on Mar 8, 2017 22:04:06 GMT
it seemed like Annie knew the psychopomps would have to give a boon. Her total disregard for Andrew was because she knew he wasn't in any real danger(if she succeeded) tho, if it wasn't for Kat they'd all be dead, so.... I wouldn't say that she *knew* they'd give her a boon, so much as she knew they *could*. I doubt she was banking on that, though. |
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qiam
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Post by qiam on Mar 8, 2017 22:53:41 GMT
I don't want to admit it, but Red has a point here. Annie did take advantage of Ayilu by offering her something very tempting and valuable that Annie had no real right to offer. It's one thing to give a fairy a name by accident, but quite another to do it intentionally in exchange for a service.
However, Kat, Ayilu, Red, Parley, and Smitty did still know the risks. Ayilu nearly died but she should have known not to risk death just to get her name early - nothing is more important than being alive. To say that Annie puts her friends in danger is to remove their agency.
I would argue that Parley was there for her own personal reasons and Smitty chose to support her - I think Parley would have wanted to deal with Jeanne whether it was Annie helping or anyone else. Especially considering Parley's growing responsibilities with Gunnerkrigg Court.
If one wants to argue that Annie puts her friends lives in danger, they would eventually be arguing that her friends are in danger simply by being around her which is definitely not a fair accusation and kind of misses the point of friendship to begin with. We already know that Gunnerkrigg Court is not exactly the safest place in any case.
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Post by casualobserver on Mar 8, 2017 23:00:36 GMT
Wow, who would've believed that this comes from the same person who just gave us "big dumb ugly butt face"? And even Ayilu's starting to listen. Wonder how she's going to react to what Red just had to say... They were all into it when it was being discussed and planned. It's a pretty crummy "after the fact" take on it on Red's part. Seems to me she was right there the whole time. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Mar 9, 2017 0:34:05 GMT
I-what-holy- I can't believe what I'm seeing here. *shakes head in bewilderment* I really can't. You people have just diminished my faith in the entire human race. I'm not sure I can come back to this forum anymore.
It's been SIXTEEN HOURS since this thread was started and NO ONE has made a SINGLE PUN about a fire elemental being "burned" by someone else for once. HOW DARE YOU, YOU HUMORLESS MONSTERS!!! I came to this thread expecting to see AT LEAST THREE separate puns about this, and what do I get!? A bunch of completely boring arguments about some totally irrelevant "ethical issue"!
Honestly people! Surely you can't tell me that such a simple, terrible, fire pun was... too hot to handle.*
*not even sorry in the slightest
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Post by youwiththeface on Mar 9, 2017 0:45:20 GMT
That was my theory until the price for the psychopomp's help was revealed. Then I was just like 'Oh, that's why'. I thought she didn't BIP because Annie insisted they wait. But before that? |
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Post by Per on Mar 9, 2017 1:17:10 GMT
It's been SIXTEEN HOURS since this thread was started and NO ONE has made a SINGLE PUN about a fire elemental being "burned" by someone else for once. This is the forum for a comic with a fire-based protagonist. I think you can assume we burned out on fire-based puns became old hat a long time ago. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Mar 9, 2017 8:46:57 GMT
You know, this might be wild spec, I don't know - but I think after Annie attempts to defend herself/concede she's been awful on the next page, Red is gonna reveal this was all a ruse. She'll explain that before the Jeanne encounter, she found out what Annie was planning to do, and in a fit of anger arranged for her friend to be named Blue (or did it herself, I'm not sure precisely why Annie needs to be here actually) BEFORE they went down the canyon, so she wouldn't feel pressured to put herself in danger. But Blue cared enough about Jeanne's situation and trusted Annie so much she went down and helped her anyway. So Red's schooling Annie on the value of letting your friends trust you to lead them, rather than relying on coercion to get people to do things for you.
Oh and also, that if you honestly don't believe a friend will help you enact a dangerous plan...maybe instead of trying to find a way to pressure them into joining, you should think about your plan harder? Maybe something like that, Annie? HMM?
Anyway, I got this impression due to Ayilu's sudden change in body language. After hearing Red get into the meat of her problem with Annie, she jumped really fast from looney name-writing time into srs business time. Almost like her theatrical reaction to getting a name was less than sincere.
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Post by todd on Mar 9, 2017 12:50:06 GMT
I thought she didn't BIP because Annie insisted they wait. But before that? As I mentioned before, Parley was probably not in the correct mental state to teleport. And in all the shock that the characters were going through, none of them might even have thought of it. (Teleporting Andrew to a hospital seems like the obvious solution when you're reading the story at home, safe and comfortable. When you're in the middle of the confusion and danger, I doubt that the idea would come as quickly.) This problem could have been solved, of course, if Tom had established in the story: a) that Parley was in no condition to teleport and b) even the best hospital couldn't treat a wound inflicted by a ghost, only etheric beings could do that. All I can say is that he's writing the comic on his own, without any beta-readers or editors who might have pointed that out to him. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 9, 2017 14:21:53 GMT
Blue^H Aieee may like that Red tries to stand for her.
However, she also is deflecting attention from herself, and in the end gone far enough for Annie to react. There's going to be more of curious mess.
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Post by jda on Mar 9, 2017 16:42:27 GMT
Red: nobody's fool. (Who knew?) Also: I'm calling not-a-short-chapter. When we had a one-page chapter, there was a lot of dramatic lead-up, tension building, and a title page that all made it look like we were in for a big showdown. And then we weren't. This, on the other hand, doesn't have a big dramatic buildup; therefore, it will be big and dramatic. Is it too early to claim my cookie? Of Course. Fire!Annie could get the worse of her in this right moment, and get a pair of Extremely Well Cooked FormerFae in about a single panel, and EndChapter right now.  |
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Mar 9, 2017 16:43:52 GMT
The fairies knew what Jeanne was capable of and still they agreed to help. Too late to complain about it now. Also, everyone else who helped did so voluntarily and accepting the risks. I don't understand this outburst unless it's some PTSD symptom (she should really get that checked out).
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 9, 2017 19:16:01 GMT
Is it too early to claim my cookie? Of Course. Fire!Annie could get the worse of her in this right moment, and get a pair of Extremely Well Cooked FormerFae in about a single panel, and EndChapter right now. But you have to admit, that would be quite dramatic.  |
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Post by Lightice on Mar 9, 2017 20:26:29 GMT
They were all into it when it was being discussed and planned. It's a pretty crummy "after the fact" take on it on Red's part. Seems to me she was right there the whole time. The fairies knew what Jeanne was capable of and still they agreed to help. Too late to complain about it now. Also, everyone else who helped did so voluntarily and accepting the risks. I don't understand this outburst unless it's some PTSD symptom (she should really get that checked out). Neither Red nor Ayilu really understood the risks before the fact. We're not talking about fully informed adults, here. Being impulsive teenagers and former fairies to boot, they didn't exactly comprehend their own mortality until now. Red only figured out all that she's saying quite recently, possibly right here when the words are coming out of her mouth. Hell, I don't think that Annie quite understood, either, in spite of having personally faced Jeanne and other dangers, before. Until now she's only put her own life at risk, and has never come to serious harm, only boosting her sense of invulnerability, but now she brought others down with her and two people almost lost their lives because of it. I don't think that this fact quite sunk into her until now -- facing death and danger is not a game. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 9, 2017 22:10:07 GMT
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