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Post by freedomgeek on Oct 24, 2016 11:13:46 GMT
I don't think Annie has seen etheric Kat before. (Last time she tried to bring Kat into the Ether, Kat got distracted.) The cracks seem to meld into the maze walls above. It looks like mechangel is replacing the old prison with the new (and hopefully transferring the occupants to the device Kat is holding.) I'm wondering if she even knows it's etheric Kat she's seeing. |
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2016 11:20:02 GMT
I'm wondering what would have happened if Kat had tapped Jeanne with the thingy back when everything was safe and calm.
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Post by saardvark on Oct 24, 2016 12:31:40 GMT
I think a number of comments are hitting around what might be going on here (see brokshi, arf, keef, jelly-jellybean).
Here is a try to synthesize them together...
Kat only becomes "machine goddess" (MG) in the ether when she is really mentally focused on a problem - in her
"genius mode". In ROTD, she was just doing obvious stuff (to her) like sticking a VCR tape in a machine - so she
looked like herself. Zimmy, is an exception - due to her unusual ether sensitivity, she sees Kat as MG *alot*
(very scary!). This is Annie's first time seeing MG. Dont think Kat realizes she looks like MG sometimes. What I think
we are seeing here is not the full goddess visage/face, but Kat (thru the green wand device) is etherically
manipulating the arrow - opening it - to let Annie and Mr Green out. We are seeing the MG's manipualtion appendages,
and they are having success in cracking the arrow open.
Exciting stuff!
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Post by todd on Oct 24, 2016 12:40:54 GMT
I remember, a couple of years ago, jokingly speculating that Tom would be cruel enough to end "The Torn Sea" just as the ship was pulled into Zimmy's world, following it up with a Treatise and a two-week break before we gat that cliffhanger resolved. He wasn't, but now he's done just that here. (Though the very first Treatise came just after another cliffhanger.)
This may be the first time that the bulk of the readers are impatiently waiting for the "City Face" interlude to be over and done with, so that they can see what happens to Annie and Co.
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Jay
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Post by Jay on Oct 24, 2016 12:46:19 GMT
EDIT: We can't see the Mecha Angel's bird hat/crown. It goes down most of her brow and we can see enough of her skull that I would think it would be visible. Zimmy saw it and it was there during The Torn Sea, so I don't know what it's possible absence here means. Relating back to how she was seen by Zimmy otherwise, maybe the bird is a representation of Kat as we know her? Like her personality or "self". Without it, the form could just be her inscrutable actions with no face to put the effect to. |
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Post by arf on Oct 24, 2016 13:07:01 GMT
This may be the first time that the bulk of the readers are impatiently waiting for the "City Face" interlude to be over and done with, so that they can see what happens to Annie and Co. Unless the Cityface interlude also ends with a cliff-hanger. Two year wait for resolution? (Nah! Tom would never... would he?) |
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Post by arf on Oct 24, 2016 13:12:34 GMT
Kat wasn't mecha in ROTD because it wasn't in the Ether: Annie didn't have her scar on.
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Post by philman on Oct 24, 2016 13:15:21 GMT
Great looking page. If Kat could do that, why send Annie in? I guess that tech is still in beta form. Don't worry, I'm sure nothing will go wrong! Deus Ex Machina, or Deus In Machina. Édit : on second thought, maybe Kat will see those appendices hanging from her and will start to notice how she looks right now and will panic... Or like in the ROTD she will see things differently from everybody else... Kat just sees herself wearing a cardboard box and fake antennae and going Beep Boop. |
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Post by saardvark on Oct 24, 2016 13:31:15 GMT
Kat wasn't mecha in ROTD because it wasn't in the Ether: Annie didn't have her scar on. everyone else was seeing ghosty-etheric things though, except Kat. Or am I misdiagnosing the situation? ghosty not = etheric? Maybe better: in ROTD they were seeing things from/in the ether (ghosty things, devices) without actually being *in* the ether themselves... sort of peering through the veil into places/at things that the ROTD permitted, to give a "spooky" effect. So Annie didn't have a scar. Kat wasnt mecha. They weren't in the ether but seeing things that were. But for some reason, Kat didn't see through the veil like the others, and the VCR was just a VCR, not a fanged eyeball. But maybe my interpretation is all wrong! I haven't read thru the discussions that far back; maybe you've worked it all out differently... if so, Im all ears! |
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Post by TBeholder on Oct 24, 2016 13:37:44 GMT
Anyway, this is definitely Annie's first time seeing Kat like this. Yet not her first time seeing something like this in general. I think we would at least have gotten a reaction shot of Annie's first sighting of the Mecha-angel. Especially since we are shown Paz's reaction. Assuming there was any reaction. But that's good old Annie we talk about, after all. "Ketrak, Kat. Kat, Ketrak." Maybe Annie has always seen Kat that way in the ether. And that's just because she doesn't want to hurt her feelings by descripting how she looks that she hasn't tell yet. Makes sense ? Or simply didn't even bother to mention. We just don't know. |
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Post by Refugee on Oct 24, 2016 14:15:47 GMT
"Don't worry little girl I'll save you."
I was looking for the "You are here" arrow on the maze, which I take to be a map of where Annie is.
One thing about that maze: it looks like some sections of the wall are disconnected from the rest. This is unfortunate, because if all the walls are connected, no matter how convoluted they are, you can explore it by putting your hand on a wall and walking. You are guaranteed to find an exit if one exists, or return to you starting position otherwise.
Annie's wondered if she's in a machine--the thing she's next to here looks that way, but the maze does not.
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Post by Per on Oct 24, 2016 14:27:13 GMT
This may be the first time that the bulk of the readers are impatiently waiting for the "City Face" interlude to be over and done with, so that they can see what happens to Annie and Co. But what if City Face continues the main plot!!1 |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 24, 2016 14:36:25 GMT
great night to sleep through it huh daedalus  .... |
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Post by calpal on Oct 24, 2016 14:40:03 GMT
BENEDICTUS ANGELUS!! OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR HAS COME!!
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Post by Purgatorius on Oct 24, 2016 14:40:26 GMT
Full-page comics. Artists must love them. Takes two days to draw and two seconds to read.
Better go back and look at the page some more...
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
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Post by pasko on Oct 24, 2016 14:42:30 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think this is Kat.
It looks like a giant bug, so, given the similitude with the concept bug = program error, I think that this is a "bug/virus" inserted by Kat.
Another visual confirmation of this is the maze, which is crumbling under the bug's action.
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Post by jda on Oct 24, 2016 14:54:27 GMT
I guess Kat just switched to a Brute Force attack. SURPRISE, MDFKAAAAAAAA!!! |
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Post by wanderer on Oct 24, 2016 14:54:47 GMT
...Wait, you all keep talking like that's Kat. That doesn't look like Kat to me. Mecha-angel Kat is gray. This thing is red, and all eldritch abomination-y.
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Post by lonestarf1 on Oct 24, 2016 15:18:32 GMT
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Post by ctso74 on Oct 24, 2016 15:31:22 GMT
Oh dear. It looks like the machine goddess has gone a bit Cthulhu on us. This bodes well... That all depends on what kind of Cultist you are. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. Awesome page! And now we must wait... Tom 'Insidious' Siddell, cunning are your ways. |
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Post by saardvark on Oct 24, 2016 15:52:28 GMT
Oh dear. It looks like the machine goddess has gone a bit Cthulhu on us. This bodes well... That all depends on what kind of Cultist you are. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. Awesome page! And now we must wait... Tom 'Insidious' Siddell, cunning are your ways. Kathulhu, perhaps? |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 24, 2016 16:48:11 GMT
I think a number of comments are hitting around what might be going on here (see brokshi, arf, keef, jelly-jellybean). Here is a try to synthesize them together... Kat only becomes "machine goddess" (MG) in the ether when she is really mentally focused on a problem - in her "genius mode". In ROTD, she was just doing obvious stuff (to her) like sticking a VCR tape in a machine - so she
looked like herself. Zimmy, is an exception - due to her unusual ether sensitivity, she sees Kat as MG *alot* (very scary!). This is Annie's first time seeing MG. Dont think Kat realizes she looks like MG sometimes. What I think we are seeing here is not the full goddess visage/face, but Kat (thru the green wand device) is etherically manipulating the arrow - opening it - to let Annie and Mr Green out. We are seeing the MG's manipualtion appendages, and they are having success in cracking the arrow open. Exciting stuff! I thought of an alternate theory: The Mecha Angel is etherically head-butting her way into the arrow maze/prison and etherically cracking her skull. We've never seen the Mecha Angel's hands, just her arms. Maybe she doesn't have hands to open the arrow maze/prison and breaking it open with her head is both practical and bad ass. The fractures only exist in the Mecha Angel's etheric form like Annie's scar. The Mecha Angel wears her bird hat/crown because she is a little self conscious about her fractured skull. Kat's non-etheric head is unharmed. This alternate theory just needs a way to link to the robot's beliefs. The bots haven't shown an ability to see etheric forms, but maybe Annie will tell them such a convincing story that they take it as gospel. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Oct 24, 2016 16:54:44 GMT
I'm in love with this page.
Kat's presence seems a little more organic to me than what we've seen in the past. I wonder if that indicates a difference in substance, art, or just my perception of it.
I've been holding on to this theory that Kat manipulates -something-, but that -something- isn't the ether as we know it. Part of this theory was that -something- is also something that Zimmy has access to, and that in Torn Sea, they used their (mis)conception of the mechanics to force Zimmy to bring those things together in our own space. It'd explain how the robots see Kat as an angel, if they had a technological equivalent to the ether.
This...complicates that. I'm about to scrap the theory. Though it's still possible that the Arrow is a device that likewise binds the etheric inside the -something-, it's starting to feel like more and more of a stretch to me. Hm.
On to the page, though! I love how Kat is basically pressing her presence into this world, reshaping it to fit her.
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Post by saardvark on Oct 24, 2016 17:14:24 GMT
I thought of an alternate theory: The Mecha Angel is etherically head-butting her way into the arrow maze/prison and etherically cracking her skull. We've never seen the Mecha Angel's hands, just her arms. Maybe she doesn't have hands to open the arrow maze/prison and breaking it open with her head is both practical and bad ass. The fractures only exist in the Mecha Angel's etheric form like Annie's scar. The Mecha Angel wears her bird hat/crown because she is a little self conscious about her fractured skull. Kat's non-etheric head is unharmed. This alternate theory just needs a way to link to the robot's beliefs. The bots haven't shown an ability to see etheric forms, but maybe Annie will tell them such a convincing story that they take it as gospel. also possible. definitely bad ass. but the bots *have* seen Kat's etheric mecha angel form on the boat... unless you're implying Kat's mecha angel form on the boat was manifesting in the real world.... but the whole boat was drawn into an etheric environment at that point, no? The bots could still see all the etheric changes around them.... their own forms were radically altered. |
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Post by fia on Oct 24, 2016 18:27:20 GMT
Okay, if I had to guess, it looks like Kat has just forced herself into the ether, using her device, by means of Annie. Like she's hacking into the ether, I guess.
I mean she can't well just dive into the river and leave the enclosure she made on the boat; there's no time. She's got to take the spirit route.
But Kat's not really trained in etheric means like Annie was with the blinker stone... I dunno, this could be bad. And it could explain the cracks on her head.
On the other hand, Annie's not getting out of there without her, so what else was there to be done?
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Post by arf on Oct 24, 2016 22:10:28 GMT
Kat wasn't mecha in ROTD because it wasn't in the Ether: Annie didn't have her scar on. everyone else was seeing ghosty-etheric things though, except Kat. Or am I misdiagnosing the situation? ghosty not = etheric? Maybe better: in ROTD they were seeing things from/in the ether (ghosty things, devices) without actually being *in* the ether themselves... sort of peering through the veil into places/at things that the ROTD permitted, to give a "spooky" effect. So Annie didn't have a scar. Kat wasnt mecha. They weren't in the ether but seeing things that were. But for some reason, Kat didn't see through the veil like the others, and the VCR was just a VCR, not a fanged eyeball. But maybe my interpretation is all wrong! I haven't read thru the discussions that far back; maybe you've worked it all out differently... if so, Im all ears! If not strictly etheric, ROTD was definitely a little trippy. This seems a reasonable interpretation of things. [update]In fact, this makes a lot of sense, since the ghosts of the ROTD haven't yet 'passed over' to keep the World (and Coyote) spinning. Then again, if that were the case, Annie's scar would have appeared when she guided Mort over. (unless the 'Source' is above the Ether?) |
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Post by arf on Oct 24, 2016 22:29:01 GMT
Someone mentioned that the Mechangel is missing its bird headpiece here. If portrayed, it would be around where the ceiling maze is, which I take to be a projection from Kat's device. This, and previous depictions of the device lead me to wonder if the headpiece is playing a role in device deployment? If so, Kat's the 'bird' for the job. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 23:13:39 GMT
Did anyone figure out the 'SM' symbol in the last one? I did not, but I remember that someone suggested "Spiritus Mundi" (i.e. World-spirit) when it was released; the treatise itself was inspired by a source that was recently discovered by shaihulud, namely the front cover of "Azoth sive aureliae philosophorum occultae, etc." (see The Treatise Thread; note that Sun and Moon have switched sides). The author, one Basilius Valentinus, presumed as having lived towards the end of the 16th century, seems to have been influenced by Paracelsus or at least the "Paracelsists" (one must ask whether this was a relation of misunderstanding as in Petrarca and the "Petrarchists"), who were fond of equating the Hermetic 'spiritus mundi' with the Christian 'spiritus sanctus', according to this book (German). My very cursory glance through the French translation of "Azoth" (thanks to keef, who found it), especially the 100-page dialogue between "Senior" and "Adolphus" depicted on the cover (the latter of which appears to bear biographical marks of Johann Thölde, as an apprentice of 'merchandise' and native of Hesse) suggests that Basilius had similar thoughts on divine inspiration (I like how "Senior" divides between "semblable", the likeness of God, and God's "image"; Man is created in the latter only), including the view of (the knowledge of) alchemy as redemptive on the soul, by virtue of all things stemming from the Living Word. However, "Senior" also warns against consuming the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, in disregard of 'a celestial philosophy' (thus repeating the Fall; incidentally, "Arbor Scientiae [...]" by Ramón Llull was the book I had originally thought to have inspired Tom for Treatise Five), weaving Matthew 6:24 as well as Thomas' disbelief of the Resurrection into his argument, and claiming that everything visible is made from the invisible. This is all fragmentary at best, and conjecture at worst; no one should take this as serious research into the book, which I will not conduct. But you will know where to start if this interests you. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 25, 2016 2:08:19 GMT
Posting this here instead of the Opportunity thread because I think it is too spoilerific even hidden behind a spoiler.  |
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Post by saardvark on Oct 25, 2016 2:31:45 GMT
I don't know... Im seeing the cracks as cracks in the arrow's internal "ceiling" due to the pressure of
mecha-angel Kat in the process of bursting in. Might be the "bird-head" of mecha-Kat which is causing the
distortred bulging and cracking of the ceiling you see at top. Some smaller appendage parts of angel-Kat have already
entered the arrow and are probing around, perhaps "sniffing" for Annie....
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