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Post by fish on Oct 19, 2016 21:37:07 GMT
Whoa! Thinking about the Broken Glass chapter I found another "cool thing I only noticed on reread" which hasn't happened in a while. I'm on my mobile phone with a slow connection and can't be bothered to check and give page links, so please bear with me:
When Annie dropped from the bridge and was caught by a TicToc I remember her politely asking the bird to drop her closer to the Court side. But the TicToc ignored her and carried her over to the Forest. At that time I chalked it up to the apathy and inertia of a mechanical bird brain, but looking at it now those birds knew exactly what they were doing when they did not deliver Annie directly in front of Jeanne's sword!
Please tell me if this has been discussed already somewhere on the board? Otherwise I'll be happy all day for finding this gold nugget and we can't have that now, can we!
Also, god dammit, when will we finally learn more about the TicTocs? When was even the last time we saw them? 40 chapters ago? I'm calling it now, the TicTocs will be the ones to save the day this time!
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 19, 2016 22:56:21 GMT
Whoa! Thinking about the Broken Glass chapter I found another "cool thing I only noticed on reread" which hasn't happened in a while. I'm on my mobile phone with a slow connection and can't be bothered to check and give page links, so please bear with me: When Annie dropped from the bridge and was caught by a TicToc I remember her politely asking the bird to drop her closer to the Court side. But the TicToc ignored her and carried her over to the Forest. At that time I chalked it up to the apathy and inertia of a mechanical bird brain, but looking at it now those birds knew exactly what they were doing when they did not deliver Annie directly in front of Jeanne's sword! Please tell me if this has been discussed already somewhere on the board? Otherwise I'll be happy all day for finding this gold nugget and we can't have that now, can we! Also, god dammit, when will we finally learn more about the TicTocs? When was even the last time we saw them? 40 chapters ago? I'm calling it now, the TicTocs will be the ones to save the day this time! Allow me to pile on using the theory that the Tic Tocs are a manifestation of the Mecha Angel before her creation, a theory introduced by others based on the bots saying the Tic Tocs were sent by a divine being to watch over them. The Mecha Angel knew Annie would be tossed from the bridge and had her Tic Tocs watching the bridge. When the event occurred the Tic Toc on duty called for other Tic Tocs to save Annie and leave her on Forest side of the river. All because the Mecha Angel knew it had to happen that way. |
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Post by fish on Oct 19, 2016 22:58:17 GMT
The last panel needs some epic musical score. This is now page 43, is this the longest chapter, yet? It feels like this chapter could go on for another 40 pages. Not even close - The Torn Sea was 82. I think that's the longest so far. Right! I forgot about that one! And that was the last chapter of that book, just like I suspect this one to be. I'm sure the next treatise will be... interesting. |
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Post by fish on Oct 19, 2016 23:07:18 GMT
Allow me to pile on using the theory that the Tic Tocs are a manifestation of the Mecha Angel before her creation, a theory introduced by others based one Zimmy's dislike for them and labelling them the thousand eyes. The Mecha Angel knew Annie would be tossed from the bridge and had her Tic Tocs watching the bridge. When the event occurred the Tic Toc on duty called for other Tic Tocs to save Annie and leave her on Forest side of the river. All because the Mecha Angel knew it would happen that way. Yes, I've read about this theory before. I'm not a huge fan, simply because I'm not a huge fan of time travel in general. But the evidence so far does not allow me to rule out any time shenanigans, sooo we'll see. Personally, I think the TicToc revelation will be something on par with "Annie is part fire elemental" - obvious in hind sight, but no one will have called it. |
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Post by freeformline on Oct 19, 2016 23:51:33 GMT
...I am suddenly struck by the realization that this whole affair is Jeanne's doing. None of this would be happening had Jeanne not crossed the water over to Annie, who was sleeping on the river bank outside of Jeanne's jurisdiction (assuming that she approached her by choice). I'd pin the blame on Muut, personally. It was through his interference Annie was given the blinker stone and made aware of there being a ghost by the Annan river(or more precisely, made aware that the light was a ghost beyond the psychopomps' reach). I speculate that without the blinker stone Jeanne wouldn't have been able to cross the river, and subsequently to leave the mark on Annie, and she'd be unable to recognize Jeanne's portrait as the ghost later on. What's more, he has explicitly admitted that he did so in order to get Annie to get to work with Jeanne. I still wonder which was the important word on the linked page. Hopefully we'll know by the end of this chapter. I think it was "you," since it's the only word in bold. Kinda obvious, really. |
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Oct 20, 2016 0:24:35 GMT
Makes me wonder about Zimmy calling Kat "Big Nose". We saw how Zimmy sees Kat and Kat doesn't have a nose in Zimmyvision. Or a mouth, or eyes... I guess Zimmy didn't see Kat that way at first and thus the label Big Nose. My interpretation of that is that Zimmy was trying to distance herself from the terror of beholding Kat's true form by imagining a comical human face. Same idea as imagining the audience is in their underwear to get over stage fright or casting Ridikkulus on a boggart in Harry Potter. |
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Post by warrl on Oct 20, 2016 4:52:10 GMT
Yes, I've read about this theory before. I'm not a huge fan, simply because I'm not a huge fan of time travel in general. But the evidence so far does not allow me to rule out any time shenanigans, sooo we'll see. But it isn't exactly time travel. Coyote did not come into existence and then go back in time. It's retroactive causality. Human belief at (and since) a certain point in time caused Coyote to come into existence long before that time, so he could participate in the creation of the universe. And Kat will - maybe - become the director (conduit, holder, source, or whatever) of enough power to cause the Tic-Tocs to have come into existence sometime before Diego's robots achieved sapience. |
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Post by snowflake on Oct 20, 2016 7:40:06 GMT
I think it was "you," since it's the only word in bold. Kinda obvious, really. "You" is bolded to show that Annie emphasizes it, so that it means "you, Muut, of all people" and not "you psychopomps" or "generic you aka anyone". It's the most important word in that sentence, bolded to resolve an ambiguity. This does not make it the most important word of the page. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Oct 20, 2016 7:53:56 GMT
Nah. It was Annie's fault for being on the wrong side of the water. Jeanne was doing her job. Annie was not supposed to be there. No, Annie landed on the Forest side, Jeanne however has always been on the Court side. Her job is taking out anyone crossing over to the Court, but she doesn't harm anyone on the Forrest side. Else, why would the fairies need Annie to crush them with a rock? I, as well, get the feeling Jeanne cutting Annie that day was more than just happenstance. Edit: Didn't you argue the other way around a few pages back, contradicting the "Jeanne was doing her job" statement? Or am I misunderstanding your point here: You misunderstand. I may not have been clear. I know what side Annie was on. We don't know what Jeanne's "official" role is here, but she calls herself the "sentinel of these waters". To me that says she doesn't guard just one side or the other: if you are down there, you are somewhere that you do not belong and she will take action. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Oct 20, 2016 8:03:30 GMT
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Post by fish on Oct 20, 2016 8:30:02 GMT
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Post by Sauzels on Oct 20, 2016 9:52:23 GMT
Here is my question: Jeanne is fairly lucid right now. She actually speaks, she remembers the girl with the gleaming heart (as I hoped she would!), she is clever and knowledgeable. So -- how does she see her own situation? Does she even want to be freed? (<- can't believe this is the first time I'm asking this question) Why does she want to, or feel compelled to, fight George? What is she actually trying to accomplish? My guess is that she wants to stay she's waiting for Mr. Elf Dude and she fights because she just hates everything that has to do with the court ("coddled child of that damned place"). The second bit might, although this is huge reach, explain why she didn't just outright kill Annie when she fell into the gorge. Maybe she sensed the fire elemental in her and suspected she wouldn't end up completely siding with the court. That doesn't explain why she was preventing Shadow from crossing the waters at the beginning though. Maybe we'll get a full revelation of that event in this chapter. Actually wait another idea I just had is that Jeanne actually thought Annie could help her, but didn't quite know a non-cryptic/rage-ghosty way to convey that. The process that turned into a ghost might have made her unable to act out of anything but spite. When Annie went back to the gorge later via blinker stone, Jeanne just grabbed the stone, keeping Annie there but not doing anything else. She didn't attack until Parley got there. And now here's Annie, helping free Anwyn Mcgee. rambling again |
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Post by snowflake on Oct 20, 2016 11:18:28 GMT
The second bit might, although this is huge reach, explain why she didn't just outright kill Annie when she fell into the gorge. Maybe she sensed the fire elemental in her and suspected she wouldn't end up completely siding with the court. ... Actually wait another idea I just had is that Jeanne actually thought Annie could help her, but didn't quite know a non-cryptic/rage-ghosty way to convey that. The process that turned into a ghost might have made her unable to act out of anything but spite. I think, as you said in the second half of the quoted part, she somehow sensed that Annie is a psychopomp, and that there is a special connection between them: a claim Annie has over Jeanne that no other psychopomp has. This would explain why Jeanne was even able to approach Annie at all (she crossed the water, which nobody thought she could do), as well as Ankou's hints to Annie. Does that really require an explanation? A forest creature, on the Court side of the Annan waters. That's more than enough reason for Jeanne to kill him. I think it's generally accepted that she didn't genuinely attack; more like pretended to. But the point that she didn't begin to communicate until Parley appeared is an important one. I wonder what made her reluctant to speak to Annie, though. |
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Post by Sauzels on Oct 20, 2016 11:43:28 GMT
Maybe we'll get a full revelation of that event in this chapter. Just realized it was probably unclear that this was referring to Jeanne meeting Annie, not Shadow being unable to cross the gorge. ]I think, as you said in the second half of the quoted part, she somehow sensed that Annie is a psychopomp, and that there is a special connection between them: a claim Annie has over Jeanne that no other psychopomp has. This would explain why Jeanne was even able to approach Annie at all (she crossed the water, which nobody thought she could do), as well as Ankou's hints to Annie. Now I'm wondering if it even has something to do with Annie's ancestors. Surma was clearly pretty influential, but do we know even a little bit about any of the fire elemental hybrids before her? Did they have anything to do with the Court? It is pretty odd that Jeanne has never directly said a word to Annie, even though she's clearly more than capable of communicating. Maybe she's just dramatic. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Oct 20, 2016 17:16:50 GMT
]I think, as you said in the second half of the quoted part, she somehow sensed that Annie is a psychopomp, and that there is a special connection between them: a claim Annie has over Jeanne that no other psychopomp has. This would explain why Jeanne was even able to approach Annie at all (she crossed the water, which nobody thought she could do), as well as Ankou's hints to Annie. Now I'm wondering if it even has something to do with Annie's ancestors. Surma was clearly pretty influential, but do we know even a little bit about any of the fire elemental hybrids before her? Did they have anything to do with the Court? Surma was first placed in Chester before being moved to Queslett. Annie was placed directly into Queslett. Chester seems to be the House for potentially dangerous students (Zimmy) so this implies that the Court thought Surma might be dangerous until they had observed her and admitted that the original placement was a mistake. To me that means the Court didn't know much about Surma or her forebearers. As opposed to Annie who they placed directly into Queslett given the knowledge they had of her mother. |
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Post by Daedalus on Oct 21, 2016 15:02:22 GMT
But the point that she didn't begin to communicate until Parley appeared is an important one. I wonder what made her reluctant to speak to Annie, though. Don't forget that Parley has still-to-be-developed psychic skills as predicted by her father (I, for one, do not think her teleporting counts as "psychic"). It could be why she can communicate with Jeanne. |
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Post by keef on Oct 21, 2016 16:02:37 GMT
Allow me to pile on using the theory that the Tic Tocs are a manifestation of the Mecha Angel before her creation, a theory introduced by others based one Zimmy's dislike for them and labelling them the thousand eyes. The Mecha Angel knew Annie would be tossed from the bridge and had her Tic Tocs watching the bridge. When the event occurred the Tic Toc on duty called for other Tic Tocs to save Annie and leave her on Forest side of the river. All because the Mecha Angel knew it would happen that way. Yes, I've read about this theory before. I'm not a huge fan, simply because I'm not a huge fan of time travel in general. It's not time travel as such (I usually share your non-fandom  ). The moment Coyote was dreamt up by humans he had always existed, because that's part of their belief. The moment the Mecha Angel materializes she will always have been around, if that is what the robots believe. That would give her time enough to create the Tic Tocs. |
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Post by freeformline on Oct 21, 2016 20:48:55 GMT
I think it was "you," since it's the only word in bold. Kinda obvious, really. "You" is bolded to show that Annie emphasizes it, so that it means "you, Muut, of all people" and not "you psychopomps" or "generic you aka anyone". It's the most important word in that sentence, bolded to resolve an ambiguity. This does not make it the most important word of the page. I suppose I haven't mastered the art of text-only humor. Next time I'll add an emoticon or some other such thing so it is clear that I am not to be taken seriously. |
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Post by Storel on Oct 22, 2016 4:20:55 GMT
Hah, so it was "waiting"! I never knew we had a definitive answer to that. I had always figured Tom was just making a joke about the fact that only one word on the whole page is bolded. (Since we know that not all Tom's comments are intended seriously.) Thank you! |
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Post by snowflake on Oct 23, 2016 5:55:48 GMT
Don't forget that Parley has still-to-be-developed psychic skills as predicted by her father (I, for one, do not think her teleporting counts as "psychic"). It could be why she can communicate with Jeanne. How interesting! I forgot about that. I do wonder what counts as psychic. I reckon there should be an element of clairvoyance involved: access to information unobtainable by mundane means. I wonder if we'll eventually be shown Jeanne's reaction to Parley's teleportation. So far she's been good at identifying all of the weapons used against her: Robot, the Dragonslayer magick, the fairy mind tricks. She didn't seem to identify Smitty's strings, but could snip them away without a second thought. She might not be able to dismiss Parley's ability so easily, so what will she say to it? Does she know it's a thing that is possible? Can she tell Parley has it even without seeing her in action? If so, she would be the only one to see it beside Coyote. ...I guess I just want a complete and coherent Theory of Jeanne before she's gone. |
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). The moment Coyote was dreamt up by humans he had always existed, because that's part of their belief. The moment the Mecha Angel materializes she will always have been around, if that is what the robots believe. That would give her time enough to create the Tic Tocs. 