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Post by davidm on Dec 14, 2015 12:21:53 GMT
50 shades of grey is popular probably not suitable for work type book that advocates pain as part of a sexual relationship... I have not read book, has been in news quite a bit, if mention of book breaks forum rules, sorry, didn't think it did, tell me better what is allowed. PS: above is joke rather than serious prediction of a romance Leaving sex aside, I question if any lasting human relationship can be intimate or even somewhat close without some sort of pain. (PS: I also haven't read the book. Or seen the movie.) "without some sort of pain"... the difference is "advocating pain" - encourages more pain, fear, etc using stuff like whips or being tied up, simulating rape in a fantasy game, etc. Commonly pain is seen as needed but not desirable to encourage more. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 14, 2015 13:11:07 GMT
Hold on, hold on, HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD ON.Did... did robot just refer to LIFE as being pain? Either I'm reading these two pages wrong, or Robot is making no distinction between the sensations that he feels and the "new data" that he is now classifying, based on a singular experience. Because if that's how I'm interpreting this page, then Robot just became... emo? Is that right? I am also a bit worried by this, yes. See my post above for further musings. |
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Post by youwiththeface on Dec 14, 2015 13:54:20 GMT
While it very well may have been completely unintentional...Kat, you gave a robot the ability to feel pain??? Even taking all of Robot's instability off the table, that seems like it could result in some cruel circumstances, and possibly way beyond what the thing would be able to handle as its first soiree in the world of the biologic.
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Post by smjjames on Dec 14, 2015 14:32:53 GMT
I'm just wondering how he knew to correctly classify it.
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Post by dotdotdot on Dec 14, 2015 16:12:41 GMT
And a Merry Painful Christmas to you too, Robot!  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 14, 2015 16:33:50 GMT
Leaving sex aside, I question if any lasting human relationship can be intimate or even somewhat close without some sort of pain. (PS: I also haven't read the book. Or seen the movie.) "without some sort of pain"... the difference is "advocating pain" - encourages more pain, fear, etc using stuff like whips or being tied up, simulating rape in a fantasy game, etc. Commonly pain is seen as needed but not desirable to encourage more. Is it? In My Humble Opinion the majority of people I've met have unrealistic ideas about relationships and seek to minimize their chances of harm through various mechanisms. Therefore, drama. Did... did robot just refer to LIFE as being pain? Either I'm reading these two pages wrong, or Robot is making no distinction between the sensations that he feels and the "new data" that he is now classifying, based on a singular experience. Because if that's how I'm interpreting this page, then Robot just became... emo? Is that right? Not necessarily. The first noble truth of Buddhism is that life is suffering (the second being that the cause of suffering is desire). If you deviate from orthodoxy a bit perhaps you can say that your capacity for suffering dictates the greatness/smallness of the individual. The more you can endure, the greater you are. Endure enough and you can become legendary. [edit]" You're not happy! You're demented!"[/edit] |
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Post by Per on Dec 14, 2015 17:00:05 GMT
One of the only "reverse cyborgs" I've seen in fiction before was Jonas in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. *Wolfe-5* Seen Ghost in the Shell? GitS gets a little deeper than DC. I've only seen the movie, but I didn't find it very deep. It had a monologue of debatable philosophical merit, or something? |
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Post by keef on Dec 14, 2015 17:05:29 GMT
Soon he may discover the new data called "itch".
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 14, 2015 17:29:04 GMT
Seen Ghost in the Shell? GitS gets a little deeper than DC. I've only seen the movie, but I didn't find it very deep. It had a monologue of debatable philosophical merit, or something? Something like that. GitS has a few things to say, at least in its own fictional universe, about emergence, more specifically the nature of minds, the self, society, and how technology might shape new expressions of these things. There's a wiki about the philosophy in GitS but it doesn't do it justice. It's possible to enjoy the franchise as just action/SF without deep thots, though. The plot kinda races past some complex references in an enigmatic fashion. |
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Post by gunnerwf on Dec 14, 2015 17:41:41 GMT
painbot
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Post by nero on Dec 14, 2015 18:34:34 GMT
I was waiting for the screaming to appear. Robot at least understood and clarified what pain is, I hope we don't find out just how much pain he can handle.
I wonder if he picks up human/living behavior so well because of the time he spent with Annie, Kat, and Shadow. Why was it so easy for Robot to call Annie "Mommy"?
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Post by l33tninja on Dec 14, 2015 18:38:15 GMT
well, Robot, maybe you're not all that smart. we already KNEW it was pain. L O L. the jokes on you. . . right? how come no one is laughing? Did I miss something?
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Post by KMar on Dec 14, 2015 20:10:11 GMT
Is there a word for a reverse cyborg? Orgbot maybe? I need the forum's help with creating an appropriate moniker! For I am taking a class on posthumanism next semester for kicks, and I plan to write at least one essay on Gunnerkrigg Court's reverse transhumanism. Perhaps I'll compare/contrast with Dresden Codak... >requires a Google or FB account for download Arxiv wins! Re. GitS: Are talking about the manga, the movies or the anime series? The themes remain much same through the whole media, but there are differences. |
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Post by Lightice on Dec 14, 2015 20:14:43 GMT
Seen Ghost in the Shell? GitS gets a little deeper than DC. I've only seen the movie, but I didn't find it very deep. It had a monologue of debatable philosophical merit, or something? It's one of those anime that you really need to see in the original language to get the full experience. The English dub turns an excellent, subtle performance into a lecture. It does handle fairly deep themes of what defines self and consciousness -- what role memories, motivations and connections to other people play in forming a coherent entity. The TV show, on the other hand, deals with spontaneous emergence of patterns on a societal level and deals more with how groups and ideologies can spontaneously emerge in unpredictable manner in an information-rich society. |
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Post by Covalent on Dec 14, 2015 22:05:35 GMT
Here's something I don't understand: what exactly is the purpose of handicapping an (ostensibly) superior machine with human traits like pain? I would see that as a setback, honestly.
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Post by keef on Dec 14, 2015 22:14:39 GMT
Here's something I don't understand: what exactly is the purpose of handicapping an (ostensibly) superior machine with human traits like pain? I would see that as a setback, honestly. Pain is a control mechanism. I guess it's necessary for advanced biological beings to function properly. |
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Post by Covalent on Dec 14, 2015 22:17:16 GMT
Here's something I don't understand: what exactly is the purpose of handicapping an (ostensibly) superior machine with human traits like pain? I would see that as a setback, honestly. Pain is a control mechanism. I guess it's necessary for advanced biological beings to function properly. Fair point. But why the introduction of organic components in the first place? Synthetics last longer.  |
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Post by Lightice on Dec 14, 2015 22:24:03 GMT
Fair point. But why the introduction of organic components in the first place? Synthetics last longer. Synthetics are easier to repair, but there are very few machines that can outlast a human lifetime. At some point it always gets cheaper and more convenient to dispose of the old model and build a new one. |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 14, 2015 23:58:06 GMT
Is there a word for a reverse cyborg? Orgbot maybe? I need the forum's help with creating an appropriate moniker! For I am taking a class on posthumanism next semester for kicks, and I plan to write at least one essay on Gunnerkrigg Court's reverse transhumanism. Perhaps I'll compare/contrast with Dresden Codak... Would Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" do? It had biots(biological robots). Biot was also used in "Phantom 2040", a 90s cartoon based on the Phantom character. I've always been partial to synthoid, as I prefer "synthetic intelligence" to "artificial intelligence". It's most recent use was for Zeta from "Batman Beyond" and "The Zeta Project" in the 00s. Technically, a reverse cyborg would still be a cyborg(cybernetic organism). However, the term has taken on a connotation that contradicts its original meaning. |
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corvis
Junior Member
"I like this place and could gladly waste my time in it."
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Post by corvis on Dec 15, 2015 2:14:58 GMT
"I have decided to call it Pain." He says that like he just invented the word. Pish. Robot's getting a tad full of himself, and this is going to entitle him even more. Lead on, Tom. |
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corvis
Junior Member
"I like this place and could gladly waste my time in it."
Posts: 56
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Post by corvis on Dec 15, 2015 2:35:32 GMT
Hold on, hold on, HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD ON.Did... did robot just refer to LIFE as being pain? Either I'm reading these two pages wrong, or Robot is making no distinction between the sensations that he feels and the "new data" that he is now classifying, based on a singular experience. Because if that's how I'm interpreting this page, then Robot just became... emo? Is that right? I am also a bit worried by this, yes. See my post above for further musings. I don't think it's too worrying. Remember the last time you closed your hand in a door? You were hard pressed to think about anything besides the "data", I'm sure. |
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Post by stclair on Dec 15, 2015 3:09:30 GMT
I find it ominous in how he is not avoiding the sensation. A kid burns their hand on a stove top, or a cat walks across a hot stove, they tend not to do it a second time. Robot is searching for pain on purpose, and is not comprehending that humans tend to avoid it. We also have brains that are hardwired that pain tells us we are damaging our body. Admittedly the black and red in the bottom panel, may be making me biased. Edit: Still working on successfully quoting. He's not a pain-seeker. Look how it took minutes, maybe even seconds, for him to return to the lab to have his finger fixed. He recognizes that pain is a suboptimal state, all right. I would be surprised if his pain receptor system was as buggy, laggy, and limited as our own nervous system. With a computer's perceptions, incredibly faster than a human's, he experiences it for far more "time cycles" than we do, in any event. Plenty of time to study the phenomenon without incurring needless downtime. But he is. Having returned to the lab to have his finger bandaged, he is now shown bashing the bandaged finger against something to experience the sensation again. I believe that the delay you mention was the result of being overwhelmed by the novel sensation, and/or just standing there and experiencing/exploring/wallowing in it, until he noticed the diminished function that went with it. So he went to have that repaired, and found out how one is connected to the other... and seems willing to accept the trade-off in order to feel that intensely again. (Robot as masochist?) |
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 15, 2015 6:01:22 GMT
Hold on, hold on, HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD ON.Did... did robot just refer to LIFE as being pain? Anyone who says differently is selling something. |
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Post by warrl on Dec 15, 2015 6:40:23 GMT
(50 shades of grey is popular probably not suitable for work type book that advocates pain as part of a sexual relationship... I have not read book, has been in news quite a bit, if mention of book breaks forum rules, sorry, didn't think it did, tell me better what is allowed. PS: above is joke rather than serious prediction of a romance) I haven't read it either, but I know some people who are into BDSM and have read it... and every one of them utterly despise it and think Mr. Grey should spend several lifetimes in prison. Apparently there are rules for proper, ethical BDSM, and Gray hardly ever misses a chance to break them. Breaking some of them constitutes kidnapping, false imprisonment, or assault and battery. (Since I am seriously not into that scene, I don't claim to know all the rules.) |
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Post by arf on Dec 15, 2015 12:11:25 GMT
Robot's impression of pain (last panel) seems a little like someone else's (panel 4) |
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Post by keef on Dec 15, 2015 17:32:00 GMT
(50 shades of grey... I have not read book) I haven't read it either Gave it a try, stupid story, badly written, sexy bits aren't sexy. Waste of trees. |
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Post by stef1987 on Dec 15, 2015 18:11:53 GMT
yeah, self-mutilation, whooo!  that was seriously disturbing |
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Post by davidm on Dec 15, 2015 20:14:27 GMT
(50 shades of grey is popular probably not suitable for work type book that advocates pain as part of a sexual relationship... I have not read book, has been in news quite a bit, if mention of book breaks forum rules, sorry, didn't think it did, tell me better what is allowed. PS: above is joke rather than serious prediction of a romance) I haven't read it either, but I know some people who are into BDSM and have read it... and every one of them utterly despise it and think Mr. Grey should spend several lifetimes in prison. Apparently there are rules for proper, ethical BDSM, and Gray hardly ever misses a chance to break them. Breaking some of them constitutes kidnapping, false imprisonment, or assault and battery. (Since I am seriously not into that scene, I don't claim to know all the rules.) People tend to have idealised version of their group and play opposite with ones that they disagree with. Eg USSR is not communism. You can have a cult where a guy has harem of women and using brainwashing/mind control techniques on them, with lots of abuse, etc and all the women "want" it, are zealout believers in cult, happy to leave husbands and become mate of the messiah. Then you might have a "dominatrix" and her male harem who do similar things, gain similar amounts of pleasure out of them, to same degree "follow" the supposed rules of BSDM of consent and it is ok because they are not a cult. (Though may also have similar paranoid/extreme views of society in general, minds damaged from drugs, similar brainwashing techniques for dominating the men, etc. Their social beliefs may follow similar extreme one sided propaganda as the above cult... ) If everyone followed the "rules" then there would be very little divorce, break up of relationships, etc. Communism, capitalism, socialism and most other economic systems would all lead to brotherhood of man, world peace, no one hungry, etc. At times the rules are judged hypocritically eg "what is mine in mine but what is your is ours", the interpretation is different depending if one receiving or giving end of the "bad" stuff. Sometimes this is gender based... easy to find lots of sitcom/comedy of woman raping a man, beating up a man, revenge killing a man in western culture with very little criticism compared to same thing done vice versa. Examples, song "next time he cheats", Lorde "magnets/disclosure" would not be acceptable if it was a man saying he did this to girlfriend who cheated. There is probably some risk of "stockholm syndrome", abusing and dominating someone to point where the dominated are claiming they enjoy it but don't really... this comes partially from discussion on Erfworld comic where someone into BSDM admitted that was risk. Saying of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely", and playing a game where one person "dominates" - has power or absolute power over other... If Reek of Game of thrones for example always in end says yes to more torture is it ok? The dominator "I am only human, made a few little mistakes/breaking of rules in beginning perhaps to gain control, my X who beat me up was much worse" (I am 40+ years old, have seen many silly arguments/fights in my life where each side ended up with one sided view that other side was bad to them, when both sides did similar, people can have very hypocritical/selective memories. Eg someone lied to them was horrible, but then they are mad because their employee didn't lie to cover up similar mistake. Or ok to treat someone else in way they would consider assault if was done to them) |
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 16, 2015 0:08:27 GMT
(50 shades of grey is popular probably not suitable for work type book that advocates pain as part of a sexual relationship... I have not read book, has been in news quite a bit, if mention of book breaks forum rules, sorry, didn't think it did, tell me better what is allowed. PS: above is joke rather than serious prediction of a romance) I haven't read it either, but I know some people who are into BDSM and have read it... and every one of them utterly despise it and think Mr. Grey should spend several lifetimes in prison. Apparently there are rules for proper, ethical BDSM, and Gray hardly ever misses a chance to break them. Breaking some of them constitutes kidnapping, false imprisonment, or assault and battery. (Since I am seriously not into that scene, I don't claim to know all the rules.) YouTuber Laci Green did a video contrasting "50 Shades" and BDSM, as well as a BDSM 101 video. Communication, informed consent, and safewords are pretty important. It seems 50 Shades may not have properly presented that, and threw some BDSM steroetypes in, to boot. |
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Bill
Junior Member
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Post by Bill on Dec 16, 2015 1:19:10 GMT
He's not a pain-seeker. Look how it took minutes, maybe even seconds, for him to return to the lab to have his finger fixed. He recognizes that pain is a suboptimal state, all right. I would be surprised if his pain receptor system was as buggy, laggy, and limited as our own nervous system. With a computer's perceptions, incredibly faster than a human's, he experiences it for far more "time cycles" than we do, in any event. Plenty of time to study the phenomenon without incurring needless downtime. But he is. Having returned to the lab to have his finger bandaged, he is now shown bashing the bandaged finger against something to experience the sensation again. I believe that the delay you mention was the result of being overwhelmed by the novel sensation, and/or just standing there and experiencing/exploring/wallowing in it, until he noticed the diminished function that went with it. So he went to have that repaired, and found out how one is connected to the other... and seems willing to accept the trade-off in order to feel that intensely again. (Robot as masochist?) This. And he slammed his finger much harder this time. The upraised arm from the previous page was Robot about to swing it down, and he shattered the bone. |
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