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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 10, 2024 7:28:57 GMT
So back when they were in their pre-Kat bodies the robots had mythic-level complexity in their code yet didn't interest the 'pomps. They were complex enough to make mistakes, have delusions, and experience romantic attraction, yet they presumably didn't produce ether nor intake/exude or circulate it any more than an electrical appliance. Why not?
I think the key point was that while their minds were complex enough their bodies weren't. There were sensors, sure, but even if some robot somewhere had an analog pain receptor it wasn't enough. Now the robots have complex bodies and minds, a budding religion with a goddess and a candidate for 'pomp, and additionally they're part of a long-running story the ether is interested in. One Noob even died and went into the ether.
We're sorta leaning on a reality distortion to get some of those things, though. Is it possible that complexity of body and mind isn't enough, and a naturally-evolved nervous system is required to be a true being in the GCU? I think an argument can be made for "yes" by looking at things through a literary critic perspective and seeing the distortion as a cheat needed to get the Noobs across the finish line and move the plot forward.
That's not necessarily the case, though. It could just be a kick in the ass to bring the story to a climax.
[edit] I should add that I think the distortion is necessary to plug the Noobs into THIS ether. If they were alone on their own world and Kat gave them the ability to reproduce they'd probably be enough to make their own etheric realm(s) eventually, but they're not. They're on a world full of humans with a deep and ancient biosphere. Their ether would be competing with a vast and entrenched ether, and it'd get quashed. [/edit]
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novia
Full Member
Posts: 236
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Post by novia on Jun 12, 2024 18:27:27 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Jun 12, 2024 22:52:38 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Jun 18, 2024 12:36:41 GMT
To add on to my and everyone's wild spec that a Kat has rigged this universe so that Annie lives.
What if that extra dimensional Kat (due to shinnanigans could be the Kat we've been following) is responsible for Tony's mind cage. And all of this is possible due to one her godhood and using Omega who is a organic machine hybrid who can know every atom from the beginning of existence until the point Kat needs aka Annie's fall from the bridge
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 20, 2024 21:24:11 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega, so just Anja being good at tech and dragging Surma with her to Queslett doesn't explain this. Omega would've known who Antimony's mother would be, and Anja needed to both be good friends with both Surma and Brinnie in order for the story to come to the good ending wherein the 'Tocs save Antimony. I think this is evidence for Omega's semi-omniscience not only sunsetting when her time runs out but being open to manipulation from the ether... which wants things.
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Post by silicondream on Jun 21, 2024 0:56:28 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega, so just Anja being good at tech and dragging Surma with her to Queslett doesn't explain this. Omega would've known who Antimony's mother would be, and Anja needed to both be good friends with both Surma and Brinnie in order for the story to come to the good ending wherein the 'Tocs save Antimony. I think this is evidence for Omega's semi-omniscience not only sunsetting when her time runs out but being open to manipulation from the ether... which wants things. I don't think the Court expected Surma's honey trap operation with Renard to fail horribly, either. And it would have dominated the Forest long ago if Omega was able to anticipate Coyote.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 21, 2024 6:39:32 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega While it’s tempting to see her manipulations like this that would fit the picture… I doubt they became so helpless without their super-oracle that now they bug her about trivialities like where to put a student or what to cook for dinner. Of course, if they did, they are quite ripe for a big turnabout in Muad’Dib style.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 21, 2024 7:21:12 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega While it’s tempting to see her manipulations like this that would fit the picture… I doubt they became so helpless without their super-oracle that now they bug her about trivialities like where to put a student or what to cook for dinner. Of course, if they did, they are quite ripe for a big turnabout in Muad’Dib style. The Court shouldn't need to use Omega as a Sorting Hat; they should be using her to make decisions that lead to particular ends. I think Omega sees causal link chains that both she and the ether want but not alternatives. ...but I may revise my opinion on that, I'm still working my way through all the ins and outs of this.
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Post by blahzor on Jun 21, 2024 9:25:20 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega While it’s tempting to see her manipulations like this that would fit the picture… I doubt they became so helpless without their super-oracle that now they bug her about trivialities like where to put a student or what to cook for dinner. Of course, if they did, they are quite ripe for a big turnabout in Muad’Dib style. Well she clearly kept secret how important surma and Anja would be because it leads to the inaccuracies So it's possible it's a planned mistake. She also doesn't need calibration test pre-annie so that's also a ruse
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 21, 2024 15:01:59 GMT
Remember how Surma and Anja got put into Chester by mistake? That was a long time before Antimony fell from the bridge. Back then the Court didn't make mistakes thanks to Omega, so just Anja being good at tech and dragging Surma with her to Queslett doesn't explain this. Omega would've known who Antimony's mother would be, and Anja needed to both be good friends with both Surma and Brinnie in order for the story to come to the good ending wherein the 'Tocs save Antimony. I think this is evidence for Omega's semi-omniscience not only sunsetting when her time runs out but being open to manipulation from the ether... which wants things. I don't think the Court expected Surma's honey trap operation with Renard to fail horribly, either. And it would have dominated the Forest long ago if Omega was able to anticipate Coyote. What do you mean, failed? They wanted Renard with a part of Coyote's power in him, and they got him.
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Post by silicondream on Jun 22, 2024 5:16:19 GMT
I don't think the Court expected Surma's honey trap operation with Renard to fail horribly, either. And it would have dominated the Forest long ago if Omega was able to anticipate Coyote. What do you mean, failed? They wanted Renard with a part of Coyote's power in him, and they got him. Anja's take, at least, is that they wanted Renard before Coyote gave him his powers. They considered a powered-up Renard more of a threat than Coyote, because Coyote at least had promised non-interference with the Court but Renard showed a dangerous interest in it. You're right though, they did neutralize him and that's more of a success than a failure. But I wouldn't call it optimal, since he did get some of the powerup they were trying to prevent, and they lost four personnel (two dead, two left the Court) in the process.
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Post by blahzor on Jun 23, 2024 21:49:41 GMT
What do you mean, failed? They wanted Renard with a part of Coyote's power in him, and they got him. Anja's take, at least, is that they wanted Renard before Coyote gave him his powers. They considered a powered-up Renard more of a threat than Coyote, because Coyote at least had promised non-interference with the Court but Renard showed a dangerous interest in it. You're right though, they did neutralize him and that's more of a success than a failure. But I wouldn't call it optimal, since he did get some of the powerup they were trying to prevent, and they lost four personnel (two dead, two left the Court) in the process. there's no way that isn't a success when a entity that can have any power it can think of and wanted to give it up and only managed to give Rey one power
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Post by pyradonis on Jun 24, 2024 15:41:29 GMT
What do you mean, failed? They wanted Renard with a part of Coyote's power in him, and they got him. Anja's take, at least, is that they wanted Renard before Coyote gave him his powers. They considered a powered-up Renard more of a threat than Coyote, because Coyote at least had promised non-interference with the Court but Renard showed a dangerous interest in it. You're right though, they did neutralize him and that's more of a success than a failure. But I wouldn't call it optimal, since he did get some of the powerup they were trying to prevent, and they lost four personnel (two dead, two left the Court) in the process. Consider also that this was long before Annie existed, so Omega's predictions must have still all been accurate... And whether the Court wanted a part of Coyote's power from the beginning on or changed their plan only later, they must have consulted Omega about this. Of course with all that pesky Ether it's hard to say how much Omega could accurately predict. Perhaps Omega could predict Renard using the bodysnatching power, but not its deathly side effects. Or not being able to tell if a human would die after getting his body taken by Renard and the Court's inner circle taking the risk with a "Well, we cannot be sure it will happen."
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