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Post by jda on Jan 13, 2023 8:12:04 GMT
Has Zimmy being a previous timelines Annie been suggested? Like, Kat/Omega accidentally/for some unkown reason turns Annie into Zimmy, and each subsequent timeline has to deal with that, and life really sucks, enough that each timelines Kat eventually gets inspired to do somthing that would normally be deemed impossible, like making/using/hacking another timelines Omega, which of course turns her into Omega and then.... Would sorta make sense if Zimmy is a result of a Kat manipulating timelines to try and keep Annie alive. This is why Zimmy doesn't ever sleep but still considered human. And need a 2nd person to reduce the effects. Gamma is effectively a Kat for this new Annie. Kind of my headcannon, but I'd not been able to put it in words. Thank you. Also, based on someone's suggestion before this post, the climax would be Kat using Omega to "correct" Annie's fall, killing Zimmy in the process, and willing to do it knowingly, out of love for her friend, meanwhile erasing all "imbalancing things", the Ether, you may say. And Annie would not allow it. How to stop it? Using Loup's power. |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 13, 2023 10:23:40 GMT
Would sorta make sense if Zimmy is a result of a Kat manipulating timelines to try and keep Annie alive. This is why Zimmy doesn't ever sleep but still considered human. And need a 2nd person to reduce the effects. Gamma is effectively a Kat for this new Annie. Kind of my headcannon, but I'd not been able to put it in words. Thank you. Also, based on someone's suggestion before this post, the climax would be Kat using Omega to "correct" Annie's fall, killing Zimmy in the process, and willing to do it knowingly, out of love for her friend, meanwhile erasing all "imbalancing things", the Ether, you may say. And Annie would not allow it. How to stop it? Using Loup's power. Zimmy does react badly to the tic-tocs Kat made and changed timelines with. Effectively being a stand in for the "correct" order of events. angry and fearful of the birds as they are a sign of something changing |
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Post by jda on Jan 17, 2023 22:50:56 GMT
Whatever your WildSpec be, remember:  |
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 20, 2023 16:23:40 GMT
Don't know if anybody's done this wildspec before, but here's one I just thought of:
Zimmy and Loup have been mentioning an "Omega" recently, with no mention of "Omega Device." In fact, Shell mentioned that "Omega" said something, with no "Device." What if Omega and the Omega Device are two separate but related entities? Specifically, what if Omega is an entity, while the Omega Device is just an invention that allows the Court to contact Omega?
More specifically, what if Omega (possibly unknown to the Court of this timeline) is actually the dark, bitter Kat of the alternate timeline where Annie died years ago? The one whose future took her in a dark direction and dragged the Court there with her? Suppose she's been doing research into different timelines, so she and her machines can answer Court Prime's questions about the proper course of action, but the one thing she can't have is her Annie back, because she knows that going back in time to save her would just split off another timeline where a different Kat gets to have that timeline's Annie as a friend, but it wouldn't resurrect her own Annie. Hence the dark and bitter.
This might also explain why Omega's information about the future has been unreliable since Annie's rescue – in her timeline, that didn't happen. By definition, she's the Kat from the timeline where that didn't happen.
The Court in the prime timeline may or may not know who or what exactly Omega is; they may actually think they have a computer that answers their questions, or they may even think they've built a device that contacts some etheric oracle entity, but they may not know Omega is an alternate Kat.
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 21, 2023 17:18:37 GMT
Don't know if anybody's done this wildspec before, but here's one I just thought of: Zimmy and Loup have been mentioning an "Omega" recently, with no mention of "Omega Device." In fact, Shell mentioned that "Omega" said something, with no "Device." What if Omega and the Omega Device are two separate but related entities? Specifically, what if Omega is an entity, while the Omega Device is just an invention that allows the Court to contact Omega? Or find, or… Yes, but if there is more than one, there may be more than two. Omega never refered to as a device by Zimmy My interpretation is that everything related is Omega Something, much like with Batpants. Those not in the know or only a little bit in the know naturally conflate all this, which helps to obscure what goes on. Very few people know of the project enough to list All Things Omega. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jan 21, 2023 18:17:57 GMT
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 21, 2023 18:49:11 GMT
Don't know if anybody's done this wildspec before, but here's one I just thought of: Zimmy and Loup have been mentioning an "Omega" recently, with no mention of "Omega Device." In fact, Shell mentioned that "Omega" said something, with no "Device." What if Omega and the Omega Device are two separate but related entities? Specifically, what if Omega is an entity, while the Omega Device is just an invention that allows the Court to contact Omega? More specifically, what if Omega (possibly unknown to the Court of this timeline) is actually the dark, bitter Kat of the alternate timeline where Annie died years ago? The one whose future took her in a dark direction and dragged the Court there with her? Suppose she's been doing research into different timelines, so she and her machines can answer Court Prime's questions about the proper course of action, but the one thing she can't have is her Annie back, because she knows that going back in time to save her would just split off another timeline where a different Kat gets to have that timeline's Annie as a friend, but it wouldn't resurrect her own Annie. Hence the dark and bitter. This might also explain why Omega's information about the future has been unreliable since Annie's rescue – in her timeline, that didn't happen. By definition, she's the Kat from the timeline where that didn't happen. The Court in the prime timeline may or may not know who or what exactly Omega is; they may actually think they have a computer that answers their questions, or they may even think they've built a device that contacts some etheric oracle entity, but they may not know Omega is an alternate Kat. They might even just think that it's a highly advanced computer which looks into alternate timelines and spits out data based on that, in which case they would be technically correct! |
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Post by warrl on Jan 21, 2023 18:55:11 GMT
Thing is, if the Court thinks the Omega Device is looking into alternate timelines (whether that's true or not is irrelevant), they should expect that alternate timelines differ in some way from theirs and therefore the predictions will be somewhat inaccurate.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 22, 2023 18:59:41 GMT
Yes, but he researched the thing for years, while, as far as we know, Zimmy just "senses" or "sees" things which often aren't true. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 22, 2023 23:52:17 GMT
By the way... Assuming Kat does kill Zeta and it sticks, and also assuming that the 'pomps don't jack Zeta for all her powers before she can adjust to being dead, isn't that potentially an improvement? Her problems stem from being a human with human limitations plugged into the ether in a way that humans can't cope with. Or does Kat require Zeta's powers to ascend to robot-goddess status, thus leaving nothing for Zeta after death except exit stage left?
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Post by madjack on Jan 23, 2023 9:16:50 GMT
One that's been on a slow boil: Kat will leave with the Court, not because she wants to, but to escape the consequences of her own actions. The Court can't just force her to go with them, because kidnapping someone and making her work for you doesn't tend to get good results. They might tempt her to go with them, but they might not too. To be fair, they'll know how the odds look, because of Omega. No, I think it's more likely that Kat goes with them to get away from two things: The terms of that contract she signed to make the NPs possible, or her learning about her upcoming and possibly unwilling apotheosis and having only one way to escape either or both. |
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Post by linchie on Jan 26, 2023 15:34:51 GMT
Cloning Surma doesn't work too good cause you can't clone the fire, they tried genetic modification but that didn't help much. So they got their boy Tony to fall in love with her and make a baby the old fashioned way. (Maybe they even grew Tony for this purpose which would be all manner of bad vibes.) Tony did a bunch of research on Surma's pregnancy too which is super convenient if you're trying to replicate it. I'm really curious about Tony's family/upbringings since Annie has no grandfamily on his side (which is obvious in Surma's case, but not for her dad), and he deliberately ignored the direct question about his parents in comics (page 1881) . Perhaps he really is not fully human and I'm pretty sure his inability to act normal around people is some kind of state of having his mind permanently restricted like the "non physical jail" mentioned by Saslamel's translator here (the wording used here has hit me as a similarity to Tony's situation immediately) |
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Post by mglvna on Jan 28, 2023 17:11:17 GMT
I was thinking, if Zimmy does die, who would be her psychopomp? Is this something they would make Annie do, since she made a deal with them? Zimmy's death is guaranteed to leave Gamma distraught. Then I considered that Gamma has been repeatedly shown to have a lesser or unpracticed version of the etheric inclinations Annie has.
Anyway, leaving a baseless, unfounded, too-early and too-sad speculation now that if Zimmy goes under, Gamma's the one who'll guide her, like she always has.
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Post by blahzor on Jan 29, 2023 7:31:20 GMT
Don't know if anybody's done this wildspec before, but here's one I just thought of: Zimmy and Loup have been mentioning an "Omega" recently, with no mention of "Omega Device." In fact, Shell mentioned that "Omega" said something, with no "Device." What if Omega and the Omega Device are two separate but related entities? Specifically, what if Omega is an entity, while the Omega Device is just an invention that allows the Court to contact Omega? More specifically, what if Omega (possibly unknown to the Court of this timeline) is actually the dark, bitter Kat of the alternate timeline where Annie died years ago? The one whose future took her in a dark direction and dragged the Court there with her? Suppose she's been doing research into different timelines, so she and her machines can answer Court Prime's questions about the proper course of action, but the one thing she can't have is her Annie back, because she knows that going back in time to save her would just split off another timeline where a different Kat gets to have that timeline's Annie as a friend, but it wouldn't resurrect her own Annie. Hence the dark and bitter. This might also explain why Omega's information about the future has been unreliable since Annie's rescue – in her timeline, that didn't happen. By definition, she's the Kat from the timeline where that didn't happen. The Court in the prime timeline may or may not know who or what exactly Omega is; they may actually think they have a computer that answers their questions, or they may even think they've built a device that contacts some etheric oracle entity, but they may not know Omega is an alternate Kat. More or less what I've said before except better written |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 29, 2023 7:38:52 GMT
I was thinking, if Zimmy does die, who would be her psychopomp? Is this something they would make Annie do, since she made a deal with them? Zimmy's death is guaranteed to leave Gamma distraught. Then I considered that Gamma has been repeatedly shown to have a lesser or unpracticed version of the etheric inclinations Annie has. Anyway, leaving a baseless, unfounded, too-early and too-sad speculation now that if Zimmy goes under, Gamma's the one who'll guide her, like she always has. They would probably make Annie do it. Having her take all the edge cases |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 29, 2023 19:50:50 GMT
They would probably make Annie do it. Having her take all the edge cases Yes, but Annie isn’t really into it. She is very unlikely to omit the other option (RotD). And that being Zimmy… “ Achievement unlocked: Make the sonovabiches sweat” |
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Post by exquisitecorpus on Jan 31, 2023 21:03:23 GMT
Cloning Surma doesn't work too good cause you can't clone the fire, they tried genetic modification but that didn't help much. So they got their boy Tony to fall in love with her and make a baby the old fashioned way. (Maybe they even grew Tony for this purpose which would be all manner of bad vibes.) Tony did a bunch of research on Surma's pregnancy too which is super convenient if you're trying to replicate it. I'm really curious about Tony's family/upbringings since Annie has no grandfamily on his side (which is obvious in Surma's case, but not for her dad), and he deliberately ignored the direct question about his parents in comics (page 1881) . Perhaps he really is not fully human and I'm pretty sure his inability to act normal around people is some kind of state of having his mind permanently restricted like the "non physical jail" mentioned by Saslamel's translator here (the wording used here has hit me as a similarity to Tony's situation immediately) I'm pretty sure Tony isn't etherically restricted, just neurodivergent! Tom is a wonderfully subtle author/artist and has chosen to employ metaphor (the Mind Cage) instead of stating it outright. Jones talking about minds taking many shapes cinches this particular reading in for me. Re: his family, the moment I saw page 1881 I had a hunch Tony had a troubled/dysfunctional upbringing, especially in a household that was emotionally abusive or negligent. Speaking from personal experience, you learn to be very private about family matters when you grow up in a dysfunctional home--maybe your parents instill in you the conviction that you can't speak to anyone about any of it, or either way you find it exceptionally hard to explain your situation to people who had relatively healthy childhoods. It could also be something else he doesn't feel comfortable divulging, e.g. being a product of the foster system. I don't know. But it's clear he didn't grow up in a settled home. I see it in the way he approaches parenthood, too, almost like he is scared of himself--to me, that's a telling sign. Obviously, part of it is the Surma-double physicality issue and the neurodivergence. But it doesn't fully explain the way he acts around Annie. I don't know. Does anyone else see it? Or is my imagination just in hyperdrive? As for Tony and Surma's relationship, though... wouldn't be surprised if it was Omega's doing, even if the feelings are genuine. The situation could still have been contrived. I mean. Two people, a well-appointed cabin, no one else for miles, a jungle full of the dangerous and exotic, and a classified observation mission where the most significant thing they witnessed was slug sex? Sign me up for Love Island Gunnerkrigg. |
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Post by saardvark on Feb 1, 2023 4:21:17 GMT
I'm really curious about Tony's family/upbringings since Annie has no grandfamily on his side (which is obvious in Surma's case, but not for her dad), and he deliberately ignored the direct question about his parents in comics (page 1881) . Perhaps he really is not fully human and I'm pretty sure his inability to act normal around people is some kind of state of having his mind permanently restricted like the "non physical jail" mentioned by Saslamel's translator here (the wording used here has hit me as a similarity to Tony's situation immediately) I'm pretty sure Tony isn't etherically restricted, just neurodivergent! Tom is a wonderfully subtle author/artist and has chosen to employ metaphor (the Mind Cage) instead of stating it outright. Jones talking about minds taking many shapes cinches this particular reading in for me. Re: his family, the moment I saw page 1881 I had a hunch Tony had a troubled/dysfunctional upbringing, especially in a household that was emotionally abusive or negligent. Speaking from personal experience, you learn to be very private about family matters when you grow up in a dysfunctional home--maybe your parents instill in you the conviction that you can't speak to anyone about any of it, or either way you find it exceptionally hard to explain your situation to people who had relatively healthy childhoods. It could also be something else he doesn't feel comfortable divulging, e.g. being a product of the foster system. I don't know. But it's clear he didn't grow up in a settled home. I see it in the way he approaches parenthood, too, almost like he is scared of himself--to me, that's a telling sign. Obviously, part of it is the Surma-double physicality issue and the neurodivergence. But it doesn't fully explain the way he acts around Annie. I don't know. Does anyone else see it? Or is my imagination just in hyperdrive? As for Tony and Surma's relationship, though... wouldn't be surprised if it was Omega's doing, even if the feelings are genuine. The situation could still have been contrived. I mean. Two people, a well-appointed cabin, no one else for miles, a jungle full of the dangerous and exotic, and a classified observation mission where the most significant thing they witnessed was slug sex? Sign me up for Love Island Gunnerkrigg. possibly Tony has Aspbergers/mild Autism, and his family didn't understand/know how to deal with it, so neglect, negligence....? |
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Post by Storel on Feb 3, 2023 5:12:10 GMT
The only entities we've heard of with the Greek letters for names are humans: Gamma is Zimmy's companion, and I'm positive I've heard the Court refer to Zimmy as Zeta. That suggests that Omega is a person, not a device. Omega is also the very last letter in the Greek alphabet, which makes me wonder if Gamma, Zeta, and Omega are the remaining survivors of a long series of some kind of experiments by the Court.
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Post by jda on Feb 3, 2023 8:04:58 GMT
The only entities we've heard of with the Greek letters for names are humans: Gamma is Zimmy's companion, and I'm positive I've heard the Court refer to Zimmy as Zeta. That suggests that Omega is a person, not a device. Omega is also the very last letter in the Greek alphabet, which makes me wonder if Gamma, Zeta, and Omega are the remaining survivors of a long series of some kind of experiments by the Court. Dude, if you've heard the Court, please look for help. |
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Post by yellowb on Feb 3, 2023 9:12:49 GMT
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 8, 2023 8:51:32 GMT
Question: If Kat is the final component of Omega (or even something that impacts Omega) wouldn't Omega have prophesied thus? At the very least wouldn't it have made some sort of prophesy regarding Kat though it may have been incorrect in some aspect(s) like the one about Antimony's death. Tangent: It been speculated that this might be the kernel that started Robot's prophesy of an angel, directly or indirectly. I don't know if that's the case but if it is, does Robot's notable omission of security for Kat and Antimony in his deal with "Loup" indicate that either he doesn't think "Loup" will or can do anything to them or, more probably, that his actions may be part of what will bring about what Robot wants? Reasoned assumption: If the Court knew about Kat being important to Omega, and I think it's probably true that they did, presumably the Court allowed Antimony and Kat to hang out because Antimony was slated to expire so they figured that wouldn't make a difference with Kat's development as long as Kat continued to get good grades and so forth. The Court may not have wanted to interfere since the Donlans would probably ask why and guess the correct answer whatever the Court said, and then do something that would prevent the prophesy from coming true. Follow-up Questions: If Kat is important to Omega why isn't Kat the most surveilled person in the Court? Did the Court rely too much on robots and Juliette, and the standard methods used for/on all kids? If so, their reliance on Juliette was fatal, emphasis on fate, as in they were fated to fail. Did the Court know about the Seraphs planning that incident on the boat? They sure don't seem to be upset about it, despite the fact that kids were arguably taken hostage and a live torpedo was fired to blow something up. Did they permit it, or even instigate it to keep Kat on track, possibly with Omega's guidance? What effect has Antimony's continued influence on Kat been? Has Kat and her computer been sullied, from the Court's perspective, with too many etheric notions? Most importantly, wouldn't the Court be waiting in the wings to kidnap Kat once the prophesy has been fulfilled? They are planning on leaving. Wild Speculation: That they haven't kidnapped Kat already means either the Court probably doesn't know about the etheric tech that Kat's been experimenting with or that her methodology is Court-approved. I'm guessing the former. Around when Kat makes her move on Omega the Court will make a move on her but it will be too late by then. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Feb 8, 2023 11:43:31 GMT
If Kat is important to the creation of Omega, and Omega knows this, why would Omega want the Court to know? That infromation would just give them an edge over it.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 8, 2023 21:57:42 GMT
If Kat is important to the creation of Omega, and Omega knows this, why would Omega want the Court to know? That infromation would just give them an edge over it. I'm not sure but some possible answers could include that Omega isn't a sentient system yet, and the addition of Kat would correct that, or that the Court's foreknowledge that Kat (or someone like her) would be required to complete Omega predates Omega's construction (though presumably not Omega's design). If the Court wants an Omega that functions as a weapon against the etheric tenet (possibly literally) it might require a human component but one reduced to a biological machine. I think the current Kat has been too "corrupted" by exposure to things etheric for that to be successful, particularly if it would include hoovering and manipulating Zeta's powers, but the strain of such a state of existence could explain those cracks on the cranium of the mecha-angel... |
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Post by blahzor on Feb 8, 2023 22:48:25 GMT
Okay this is it
This implant will have the highest amount of unintended actions. Kat wants this implant to interface with all court electronics. This will instead allow her to interface all systems of the know reality like the rotd bureaucratic system and the ether recycling system. And she'd be free of all consequences because she's doing a loophole because she got explained the rules. Now this loophole I don't know if she's purposely doing it at this time.
It will start with her being able to control electronics but she will see the other systems and won't be able to stop herself from testing what she can do with it and eventually control it. This is the wand all over again where she pierced the ether to undo the lock on the guy in the lake
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Also Kat and Annie has basically been free of consequence because of omega prediction. Them going against all logoc not making Annie the court medium was them probably testing the omega then finding it futile when Coyote made her first medium anyway because there was no real way to keep her from going to the forest
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Post by blahzor on Feb 8, 2023 23:06:11 GMT
If you knew you'd have the most prodigy of all prodigy kids actively surveiling them might lead to her surveiling you back with your own tech
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 8, 2023 23:25:29 GMT
Speaking of unintended consequences, fifty quatloos says Kat does understand how Omega looks through the layers of reality after accessing it but doesn't immediately grasp the danger... and accidentally kills Zeta just by remotely looking at her through Omega. If you knew you'd have the most prodigy of all prodigy kids actively surveiling them might lead to her surveiling you back with your own tech Playas gotta play, surveillance state gotta surveil. |
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Post by lightshade on Feb 14, 2023 4:33:49 GMT
I have an idea that Annie may end up using the tooth sword on Kat as well as Loup. This is going to change her, turn her into a completely different person, maybe the tech-goddess she's been hinted at as evolving into before. She'll be so distant and withdrawn from the specks that make up humanity that she won't be who she was. But deep within will be a kernel of that kind, sweet girl who broke time to save her friend. So Annie will slice her and divide them into two beings: Kat the cold tech goddess and Kat the mortal human who can still feel emotions.
This might be the direction that the plot with Jerrek/Loup heads in as well. I used to really get annoyed by Loup but he's grown a lot and it seems like a downer ending for such a unique character to just completely die and be split back into Ysengrin and Coyote while his personality dies completely. I think when the tooth is used on him, he'll split, back into the two immortals but also permanently into Jerrek's form. Whether this is done consciously or unconsciously I'm not sure but I can see him using the last of his power to make his Jerrek persona a permanent new person so he can be forever happy with Lana. It'll also be the best for him because he won't have the powers of a destructive god anymore and just be a somewhat normal person. But since he technically won't be Loup anymore he'll also be technically be "dead" as Coyote said would happen.
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Post by batsugars on Feb 15, 2023 19:05:08 GMT
Had a thought (that might have been stated before!).
Robot is aware of the arrow and what it can do; namely, trap someone permanently in place (even if they exist in the ether).
Robot had Loup promise not to get in the way of Kat's plans; I think he's planning on enforcing that promise with the arrow.
So, I imagine that Loup will do something to Kat (probably in order to protect Lana!), and Robot will use the arrow to trap Loup. After that I doubt Kat will want to help Loup, but she's the only one (so far) who can solve the arrow's lock mechanism. So to free him, Annie may be forced to kill Loup with the tooth, thus proving Coyote correct.
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Post by blahzor on Feb 20, 2023 17:32:32 GMT
Real wild spec
The Kat from the bang page today 2-20-23 is actually her computer and she is remote elsewhere. The chip is being installed by Annie or Paz to see if she can make a passable human
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