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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 16, 2018 11:26:41 GMT
By the way, checking in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=155, all the'pomps seem to be part of specific Legends about Death and guides to afterlife : Hermes, The Grim Reaper, etc. There is a greek/roman, an egyptian, an hinduistic(?), The Moodley Doo, Ketrak for the insects, Muut on the American Indian side(imported bc of Coyote?), etc. BUT Annie (or Surma, on the case) What group/nationality would she/they represent? Is there a ethnicgroup where FFireElementals were Afterlife Guides? On the other hand, Annie has already guided Surma (what was left of her humanity to be guided?), Mort, Jeanne, GreenZombieGuy , and, (being very open with the definition) even the AccidentalFireBoy. So would that make Annie a stranded souls pomp? That is very close to my guess. I think the Pomps want her to serve as their Medium between them and the Stranded Souls, but not serve as a Pomp herself. From what we've seen so far, the job appears to be a family tradition. |
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 16, 2018 18:55:16 GMT
Question for the forum: Coyote used to laugh quite a bit but I want to know if he's laughed in that characteristic way of his since pulling his tooth out to give to Antimony. . Absolutely. Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. |
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Post by fia on Mar 16, 2018 22:18:11 GMT
By the way, checking in www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=155, all the'pomps seem to be part of specific Legends about Death and guides to afterlife : Hermes, The Grim Reaper, etc. There is a greek/roman, an egyptian, an hinduistic(?), The Moodley Doo, Ketrak for the insects, Muut on the American Indian side(imported bc of Coyote?), etc. BUT Annie (or Surma, on the case) What group/nationality would she/they represent? Is there a ethnicgroup where FFireElementals were Afterlife Guides? On the other hand, Annie has already guided Surma (what was left of her humanity to be guided?), Mort, Jeanne, GreenZombieGuy , and, (being very open with the definition) even the AccidentalFireBoy. So would that make Annie a stranded souls pomp? I've always pictured funeral pyres or lights used to guide the dead to/from the afterlife (ex., Samhain) as explanations of why fire-spirits might be able to serve as psychopomps so easily. |
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Post by todd on Mar 19, 2018 13:21:39 GMT
One of Coyote's motives for telling so many stories about himself is to distract Annie, Smith, and Parley from the question: why are the forest-folk so angry at the Court? By turning their attention so constantly to his adventures (most, if not all of which, presumably occurred while he was still living in America and hadn't yet moved to Gilltie Wood), he's drawing it away from the forest-folk's own past and their grievances - and if Annie and Co. found out about those, they might find a way to remedy those, leaving Coyote without that anger he can manipulate into keeping the feud between the Wood and the Court going for his own entertainment.
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Post by Druplesnubb on Mar 19, 2018 14:36:45 GMT
This might fit better in the "things I only noticed on reread" thread, but These are past events that only got new significance due to this latest chapter, so I'm posting t here. I reread Chapter 62 and noticed Parley being given a piece of Coyote. I think he will use this to reform himself now that Ysengrin has eaten him. The goose bone he gave Andrew and the tooth he gave Annie earlier may also play into this. |
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 19, 2018 16:10:17 GMT
This might fit better in the "things I only noticed on reread" thread, but These are past events that only got new significance due to this latest chapter, so I'm posting t here. I reread Chapter 62 and noticed Parley being given a piece of Coyote. I think he will use this to reform himself now that Ysengrin has eaten him. The goose bone he gave Andrew and the tooth he gave Annie earlier may also play into this. [ It's] [ been] [ mentioned] before, but thanks for finally putting it in wildspec! |
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Post by Runningflame on Mar 19, 2018 19:34:01 GMT
Short of assuming that Coyote and Muut were secretly in league, I'd rule out the notion that he got Annie to free Jeanne. Wait. Coyote and Muut are in league! They've been orchestrating everything all along. It all makes sense now!  Muut Nice guy.png (70.62 KB) Edit: In case it's not clear, my tongue is very much in cheek.  But if C and M were conspiring to bring about the events of the comic... then Muut's excellent poker face would clearly be a crucial part of the scheme. If Muut were to show his amusement at the idea of using Annie to remove Jeanne so Coyote could terrorize the Court, Annie would realize something was up. (Of course, in the above panel, Coyote is laughing at how Annie doesn't suspect Muut because of Muut's poker face. But Coyote laughs all the time anyway, so Annie doesn't notice anything amiss there.) |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 20, 2018 4:49:55 GMT
Short of assuming that Coyote and Muut were secretly in league, I'd rule out the notion that he got Annie to free Jeanne. Wait. Coyote and Muut are in league! They've been orchestrating everything all along. It all makes sense now! well, they at least are familiar with each other... not clear they are in league together, but they might be! EDIT: oops! Didn't see that tongue in your cheek! |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 20, 2018 14:55:35 GMT
Short of assuming that Coyote and Muut were secretly in league, I'd rule out the notion that he got Annie to free Jeanne. Wait. Coyote and Muut are in league! They've been orchestrating everything all along. It all makes sense now! Reminded of this, I suddenly had the extremely silly picture of Coyote and the Pomps all sitting around a table in a smoke filled room, playing poker... |
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 20, 2018 15:18:40 GMT
Reminded of this, I suddenly had the extremely silly picture of Coyote and the Pomps all sitting around a table in a smoke filled room, playing poker... I had that image of God-poker the first time I read that page. It's hilarious. Someone with the powers of Photoshop in the "I saw an opportunity" thread should edit them into Dogs Playing Poker. |
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 20, 2018 15:40:08 GMT
The post I just made in "cool things I just noticed on re-read" got me thinking. When Shadow 2 was cut from the floor, how did the blade reach under him if the sharp edge landed DIRECTLY on his body? Did the tooth-blade turn between panels? ...does that piece of Coyote recognize his shadow-children and know not to harm them? Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 20, 2018 15:52:09 GMT
Reminded of this, I suddenly had the extremely silly picture of Coyote and the Pomps all sitting around a table in a smoke filled room, playing poker... I had that image of God-poker the first time I read that page. It's hilarious. Someone with the powers of Photoshop in the "I saw an opportunity" thread should edit them into Dogs Playing Poker. yup, stole the image right out of my head! Appropriate too, seeing as its an old classic anagram: Dog-poker -> God-poker... |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 20, 2018 16:01:33 GMT
The post I just made in "cool things I just noticed on re-read" got me thinking. When Shadow 2 was cut from the floor, how did the blade reach under him if the sharp edge landed DIRECTLY on his body? Did the tooth-blade turn between panels? ...does that piece of Coyote recognize his shadow-children and know not to harm them? Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? possibly, but possibly not.... there might be a distinction between creations of Coyote (forest, shadow children) and things which are literally *parts* of himself (tooth-blade, Coyote Water TM)... possibly only the latter can be used to reconstitute the tricksy ol' canine....i dunno... |
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Post by jda on Mar 20, 2018 16:20:08 GMT
The post I just made in "cool things I just noticed on re-read" got me thinking. Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? possibly, but possibly not.... there might be a distinction between creations of Coyote (forest, shadow children) and things which are literally *parts* of himself (tooth-blade, Coyote Water TM)... possibly only the latter can be used to reconstitute the tricksy ol' canine....i dunno... Checking again that page, seems like Coyote has given as a gift his laughter and teeth (to Annie), his blood, his strenght and bones, his eyes (to renard). Wuold that make the seed "the hair in his back"? If so, this is page is a helk of a symbolic long time Chekhov's. |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 20, 2018 16:49:49 GMT
possibly, but possibly not.... there might be a distinction between creations of Coyote (forest, shadow children) and things which are literally *parts* of himself (tooth-blade, Coyote Water TM)... possibly only the latter can be used to reconstitute the tricksy ol' canine....i dunno... Checking again that page, seems like Coyote has given as a gift his laughter and teeth (to Annie), his blood, his strenght and bones, his eyes (to renard). Wuold that make the seed "the hair in his back"? If so, this is page is a helk of a symbolic long time Chekhov's. or did he give his blood (=Coyote Water TM?) to Parley, bones (goose) to Smitts? Strength (more bones) and eyes to Ys? Im getting confused about all these Coyote-bits.... |
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Post by pyradonis on Mar 24, 2018 21:24:18 GMT
The post I just made in "cool things I just noticed on re-read" got me thinking. When Shadow 2 was cut from the floor, how did the blade reach under him if the sharp edge landed DIRECTLY on his body? Did the tooth-blade turn between panels? ...does that piece of Coyote recognize his shadow-children and know not to harm them? Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? Suddenly I feel very much reminded of the plot of Baldur's Gate and Bhaal's plan for his resurrection in it... |
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Post by madjack on Mar 25, 2018 1:11:05 GMT
The post I just made in "cool things I just noticed on re-read" got me thinking. Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? Suddenly I feel very much reminded of the plot of Baldur's Gate and Bhaal's plan for his resurrection in it... That.. would probably send Robot off the deep end. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Mar 25, 2018 8:51:45 GMT
I'd say, if the shadowmen are yet another piece of Coyote, then that puts Shadow 2 in grave danger were Coyote to decide to reform out of stuff hanging around the Court.
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 26, 2018 13:45:48 GMT
Jones referred to the shadow-children as born from the body of Coyote. If Coyote can re-form himself from any piece of Coyote, and we're counting pieces here (Coyote Water TM, the tooth-blade, and if you want to take Coyote's own words literally, the forest itself), then.....do the shadow-children, glass-eyed men of the forest, offspring of Coyote's own body, count? possibly, but possibly not.... there might be a distinction between creations of Coyote (forest, shadow children) and things which are literally *parts* of himself (tooth-blade, Coyote Water TM)... possibly only the latter can be used to reconstitute the tricksy ol' canine....i dunno... Nice point. I'm going to go with "children =/= body parts" until otherwise stated. Thanks. |
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clover
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Post by clover on Mar 31, 2018 17:12:25 GMT
Say, are the golem hearts we saw in the old robots kind of plant-like?
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Post by jda on Mar 31, 2018 21:50:55 GMT
Say, are the golem hearts we saw in the old robots kind of plant-like? Very much plant-like indeed! Let me search them... |
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Post by saardvark on Mar 31, 2018 22:30:02 GMT
Say, are the golem hearts we saw in the old robots kind of plant-like? drawings show lots of flowers around them: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=880though the actual heart itself www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=882www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=897does not seem surrounded in such a way. Still, perhaps the drawings hint at some connection with flowers/life/nature... (??) or flowers/seeds/--> seed Bismuth (??) I dunno.... |
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Post by todd on Mar 31, 2018 23:37:39 GMT
This isn't exactly wild speculation, but I'm not sure where else I could go. I looked back to this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=708Reynardine's shocked response to the Court's experiments with the ether suggests that he had not known about them before now. Which would mean, in turn, that those could not have been public knowledge in Gilltie Wood at the time of his ensnarement by Surma - which happened relatively recently in the Court's history (though we don't know how many years or generations went on between the Court's founding and Surma's lifetime). Possibly the forest-folk have found out since then, but even so, this implies that the Court's tampering with the ether in the power plant (or any possible similar experiments before the power plant was built) could not have been the motive for the forest-folk's assaults on the Court for all the time prior to Renard becoming the Court's prisoner (including the Founders' lifetime, when they set up Jeanne as the guardian). Which indicates that there's some other reason for the forest-folk's hostility towards the Court (at least, the ones who *do* hate it - we know a lot of them don't) than whatever's going on in the power plant. The big question is: what? |
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Post by saardvark on Apr 1, 2018 3:16:39 GMT
This isn't exactly wild speculation, but I'm not sure where else I could go. I looked back to this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=708Reynardine's shocked response to the Court's experiments with the ether suggests that he had not known about them before now. Which would mean, in turn, that those could not have been public knowledge in Gilltie Wood at the time of his ensnarement by Surma - which happened relatively recently in the Court's history (though we don't know how many years or generations went on between the Court's founding and Surma's lifetime). Possibly the forest-folk have found out since then, but even so, this implies that the Court's tampering with the ether in the power plant (or any possible similar experiments before the power plant was built) could not have been the motive for the forest-folk's assaults on the Court for all the time prior to Renard becoming the Court's prisoner (including the Founders' lifetime, when they set up Jeanne as the guardian). Which indicates that there's some other reason for the forest-folk's hostility towards the Court (at least, the ones who *do* hate it - we know a lot of them don't) than whatever's going on in the power plant. The big question is: what? ...unless only Coyote knew, and he kept it to himself, or only shared it with Ys (to get him riled up). But it is a good point, what else could there be to generate such hostility? |
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Post by madjack on Apr 1, 2018 5:05:43 GMT
Outside of Ysengrin and his merry band, I'm not sure there is active hostility towards the Court. Old resentment, maybe, but not hatred.
I'd put money on Coyote orchestrating this as part of a long game because he didn't get what he came for in the beginning: The original union / Seed Bismuth.
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Post by luthien341 on Apr 1, 2018 6:25:21 GMT
I'm not sure how I feel yet about whether this was in Coyote's plans or not...or whether he is capable of 'returning', as it were...I have a suspicion that the arrow, and/or the device Kat made, is going to come into play here to stop Ysengrin.
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Post by todd on Apr 1, 2018 13:10:31 GMT
Outside of Ysengrin and his merry band, I'm not sure there is active hostility towards the Court. Old resentment, maybe, but not hatred. I'd put money on Coyote orchestrating this as part of a long game because he didn't get what he came for in the beginning: The original union / Seed Bismuth. Among the shadow-people, also, but hardly anybody else. Maybe the feud is indeed largely artificial, encouraged by Coyote (though, I suspect, more for his amusement than for some practical gain). |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 12, 2018 19:10:17 GMT
This isn't exactly wild speculation, but I'm not sure where else I could go. I looked back to this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=708Reynardine's shocked response to the Court's experiments with the ether suggests that he had not known about them before now. Which would mean, in turn, that those could not have been public knowledge in Gilltie Wood at the time of his ensnarement by Surma - which happened relatively recently in the Court's history (though we don't know how many years or generations went on between the Court's founding and Surma's lifetime). Possibly the forest-folk have found out since then, but even so, this implies that the Court's tampering with the ether in the power plant (or any possible similar experiments before the power plant was built) could not have been the motive for the forest-folk's assaults on the Court for all the time prior to Renard becoming the Court's prisoner (including the Founders' lifetime, when they set up Jeanne as the guardian). Which indicates that there's some other reason for the forest-folk's hostility towards the Court (at least, the ones who *do* hate it - we know a lot of them don't) than whatever's going on in the power plant. The big question is: what? ...unless only Coyote knew, and he kept it to himself, or only shared it with Ys (to get him riled up). But it is a good point, what else could there be to generate such hostility? "The humans sought to tame the great beasts." (Coyote) "The Court sees them as little more than dull-minded animals, trying to create a nuisance." (Jones) "The humans willed me to grow too fast and I began to overtake the forest." (The wisp posing as the Seed Bismuth did mix truth with lies, according to Coyote, and this part does sound plausible.) |
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Post by todd on Apr 12, 2018 19:40:15 GMT
...unless only Coyote knew, and he kept it to himself, or only shared it with Ys (to get him riled up). But it is a good point, what else could there be to generate such hostility? "The humans sought to tame the great beasts." (Coyote) "The Court sees them as little more than dull-minded animals, trying to create a nuisance." (Jones) "The humans willed me to grow too fast and I began to overtake the forest." (The wisp posing as the Seed Bismuth did mix truth with lies, according to Coyote, and this part does sound plausible.) I particularly like that last one. It'd have really caused problems for the Court, since, while in this scenario, they weren't converting so much of the area into buildings on purpose, their defense would have only made matters worse - revealing that they hadn't been able to control their creation. Which would make them seem even more like a threat to the forest-folk - incompetence being potentially more dangerous than hostile intent. (Not to mention I suspect the Court would have been reluctant to use that defense, since they wouldn't want to admit to being unable to control the Seed Bismuth - especially not in front of that crowd of animals!) |
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kat
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Post by kat on Apr 12, 2018 20:04:56 GMT
"The humans sought to tame the great beasts." (Coyote) "The Court sees them as little more than dull-minded animals, trying to create a nuisance." (Jones) "The humans willed me to grow too fast and I began to overtake the forest." (The wisp posing as the Seed Bismuth did mix truth with lies, according to Coyote, and this part does sound plausible.) I particularly like that last one. It'd have really caused problems for the Court, since, while in this scenario, they weren't converting so much of the area into buildings on purpose, their defense would have only made matters worse - revealing that they hadn't been able to control their creation. Which would make them seem even more like a threat to the forest-folk - incompetence being potentially more dangerous than hostile intent. (Not to mention I suspect the Court would have been reluctant to use that defense, since they wouldn't want to admit to being unable to control the Seed Bismuth - especially not in front of that crowd of animals!) The seed "Bismuth" may be the seed of an idea. With a bit of imagination and creativity, ideas take on their own life. |
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But if C and M were conspiring to bring about the events of the comic... then Muut's excellent poker face would clearly be a crucial part of the scheme. If Muut were to show his amusement at the idea of using Annie to remove Jeanne so Coyote could terrorize the Court, Annie would realize something was up. (Of course, in the above panel, Coyote is laughing at how Annie doesn't suspect Muut because of Muut's poker face. But Coyote laughs all the time anyway, so Annie doesn't notice anything amiss there.)
