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Post by gwydion on Aug 24, 2015 8:29:05 GMT
Wow. you can't help but feel sorry for the guy, and wonder whether he's taking the metaphorical of her Father died in those cave to a very literal extent. Still I kind of hope Kat's command to Reynard doesn't include him now.
So I think that the real guides would have had a little more decorum when dropping someone back to the physical plane, but coyote has "dessert abandonment" all over him.
and cue the Court's involvement in 3,2...
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Post by zimmyzims on Aug 24, 2015 8:31:25 GMT
....but the Court intervened.
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Post by rafk on Aug 24, 2015 8:51:05 GMT
So who finds him, restores him to physical health minus arm and sanity, and sends him back to the Court to complete a task? Coyote or an agent of the Court?
As a reader of Wheel of Time, I'm reminded of the description Ishamael gives of Jain Farstrider - sent back to the Ogier, "painted like a fool and thinking he was free of me". Anthony is someone else's weapon now, whatever he thinks he's doing.
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Post by keef on Aug 24, 2015 10:03:40 GMT
....but the Court intervened. Exactly what I said aloud when I read today's page. So like always Tom may well have something else planned. A Yeti? Giant eagles Tic-tocs taking him to their nest? |
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Post by corruptuser on Aug 24, 2015 10:11:17 GMT
I am going with the theory that Tony is rescued by Coyote because he resembles the Man in the Desert who "created" Coyote.
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Aug 24, 2015 11:01:24 GMT
I like the theory corruptuser, but I don't think it will be the case, simply because I don't know WHY it would be.
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Post by vernes on Aug 24, 2015 11:03:02 GMT
Butt. Also, Annie is taking this in strides it seems. Emotional detachment. She literately detached her emotional inner fire-elemental. I hope she fixes herself soon. |
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Post by aline on Aug 24, 2015 11:07:00 GMT
I am going with the theory that Tony is rescued by Coyote because he resembles the Man in the Desert who "created" Coyote. Except the "man in the desert" dies. And Coyote doesn't have a habit of saving dying people, that's not what he does. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Aug 24, 2015 11:08:24 GMT
Butt. Also, Annie is taking this in strides it seems. Emotional detachment. She literately detached her emotional inner fire-elemental. I hope she fixes herself soon. I'm thinking/hoping that Annie sees what Anthony's inability to forgive himself has done to him, and musters the fortitude to forgive her own self/elemental. Maybe that's why the Chapter is called Annie And The Fire even though it's been all about Anthony so far. |
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Post by csj on Aug 24, 2015 13:07:33 GMT
It's so sad and frustrating that Tony thinks him rotting in the desert is better for Annie than him...being alive and there for her. I think a good portion of the fanbase would have agreed not a few panels ago  |
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Post by fish on Aug 24, 2015 13:16:05 GMT
....but the Court intervened. ...but then the Fire Nation attacked! (Okay, I'll see myself out...) |
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Post by smjjames on Aug 24, 2015 13:32:59 GMT
But?.. Far from desert, there are trees. But... There ARE trees in a desert you know. It also looks like he is in the mountains somewhere or otherwise rough terrain. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Aug 24, 2015 13:52:11 GMT
It's so sad and frustrating that Tony thinks him rotting in the desert is better for Annie than him...being alive and there for her. I can't even imagine Annie's reaction if she had learnt the only family she has left had been found half eaten in the middle of nowhere. As others have said, I think he's too far gone into depression to even realize his thoughts or actions are completely irrational (which doesn't excuse his behavior but partly explains it). I still don't understand his first meeting with Annie (saying he's disappointed, the makeup, the orders..) and I'm eagerly waiting for them to.talk.to.each.other. I wonder if Tony thinks he was performing the role of a strict but just father? Which would be messed up: "beep boop beep I'm a broken man, executing StrictDad.exe, beep boop beep placing daughter.gif on top of building is a great idea-" His behaviour probably has a lot to do with the reason why he's back in the Court. Notice that the Court watching him constantly has been brought up more than once during this chapter, and he gives very different face when (he believes) he is alone with Mr. Donlan. |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Aug 24, 2015 16:04:32 GMT
Ahh, we WILL get to see what happened after! Perhaps this is going to be the part where he explains why on this page he says he thought he could escape the court's eye. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Aug 24, 2015 16:19:52 GMT
But?.. Far from desert, there are trees. But... There ARE trees in a desert you know. It also looks like he is in the mountains somewhere or otherwise rough terrain. And tumbleweeds so big you can make giant snowmen out of them. Seems like a non-sequitur, "but" for all we know Tony may think a tumblweed snowman saved him. |
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Post by nero on Aug 24, 2015 16:20:11 GMT
If he doesn't see himself as a father to Annie, then what does he see himself as now?
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Post by pxc on Aug 24, 2015 16:31:48 GMT
If he doesn't see himself as a father to Annie, then what does he see himself as now? I think he still does, though he doesn't think he deserves to be. Else why return and start giving her orders and changing her life? Why return at all? We're hopefully about to find out. |
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Post by darklingthrush on Aug 24, 2015 16:34:10 GMT
A particularly salient (or at least snarky) comment on this comic page. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
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Post by darththulhu on Aug 24, 2015 16:40:09 GMT
Ugh, something happened to get him up and going again. After the entertainment the creatures tossed him out on his ass? That's cold. Hey. They got their bonetenna out of him, and some fabulous Fun Times watching him fail, but it's Closing Time. Out the mystical door you go! |
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Aug 24, 2015 16:40:18 GMT
Maybe it's unintentional because of the way the panel is framed, but it really does look like the Fire has now got short hair too, which may be pointing to Annie re-connecting with a her disassociated emotions.
Well, this goes a long way to explaining him living in an empty house with only Annie's homework and occasional prodding of Renard to occupy him. There's literally nothing in this life he gives a shit about anymore. He's needed grief counseling for a while, but he really seriously needs help with that depression too.
I have some majorly mixed feelings about Annie hearing all this. On one hand, it's good for her to know that her actions and her worthiness as a personal have nothing to do with her father's actions or choices, but that's a huge burden of emotions for a teenager. If she's already in the state where she's willing to turn herself inside out for his acceptance and approval... hngh. In general, I don't foresee Anthony being able to provide emotional support to anyone, let alone Annie, for a good long while. He's gotta get himself taken care of first.
Also, sigh, guess it's going to be that he's back in GKC to protect Annie from whatever the Court was planning to do to her if he didn't intervene to get her under control. I legitimately can't imagine what other leverage they could possibly use against him.
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Post by pxc on Aug 24, 2015 16:42:23 GMT
A particularly salient (or at least snarky) comment on this comic page. Looking forward to seeing what comes next. My best guesses are: 1 - The court saved him and then threatened that they'd do worse to Annie than holding her back a year, etc. if he didn't return and get her under control. 2 - He thinks he deserves to be hated so he's giving her reasons to hate him. In an ass backwards way this is more self flagellation. 3 - He understands leaving her alone was bad and wants things to be better for her, and so despite his self-hate he is simply trying (failing) to do what a good dad would do. |
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Post by darththulhu on Aug 24, 2015 16:53:37 GMT
But?.. Far from desert, there are trees. Mountains exist in deserts, and their higher parts are one of the few places where you get trees (if you get trees), because: 1) The air is cooler as you go up, reducing moisture loss 2) The soil is likewise cooler, reducing heat stress 3) Clouds moving over the desert plain won't drop much rain, but clouds moving up a desert mountain WILL cool down and drop rain The few trees in deserts are thus mostly found on mountains, along seasonal rivers coming out of mountains, and at oases. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2015 17:05:58 GMT
....but the Court intervened. Exactly what I said aloud when I read today's page. So like always Tom may well have something else planned. A Yeti? Giant eagles Tic-tocs taking him to their nest? A troop of Girl Scouts. Or some stragglers from Burning Man. Some fossil hunters find a fossil fossilized before its time (not so pretty now, is he Brinnie?). His monitor from the Court comes by to find out why his location is now reading from two proximate but different locations. Or The "but" refers to when he started getting really hungry and thirsty he changed plans for self-martyrdom, recovered his backpack with the food and canteen, ate, drank, and straggled out of the wilderness feeling even more sorry for himself then ever before. |
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Post by gunnerwf on Aug 24, 2015 17:13:07 GMT
get help Tony
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 24, 2015 17:23:30 GMT
Eh don't worry guys he's probably building to "but I remembered Antimony" or "but I thought of Antimony."
"...and how I could work out all my issues and make all my failures disappear through raising her into my ideal of perfection."
What could possibly go wrong with this?
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Post by darththulhu on Aug 24, 2015 17:32:43 GMT
His behaviour probably has a lot to do with the reason why he's back in the Court. Notice that the Court watching him constantly has been brought up more than once during this chapter, and he gives very different face when (he believes) he is alone with Mr. Donlan. The Court watches everyone constantly. The kids (and likely the staff) all have trackers in their food, for starters. There is no reason to imagine the Court can't quietly get at anything seen by any robot. Tony straight-up discussed "removing all the bugs" in his building. Part-etherial critters like Bud and Lindsey hang about and spy. It's a near-total surveillance state with multiple layers of redundancy. It all makes the Court's general non-intervention on matters like Zimmy and the Torn Sea cruise and crazy-Jack slinking around and Annie's cheating Super Extra Creepy. They KNOW stuff is going on (they know when and where trackers are going silent, if nothing else), but they almost never directly intervene, even when a Shipful of Trackers goes out and Lindsey watches the sea tear open next to her. Their complete willingness to do stuff like silently watch kiddo-Annie's tracker approach bound-Renard-Sivo's body is deeply creepifying. Likewise, their willingness to have the Bridge Without Safety Rails to the Forest of Angry Shadow People just sit right there, without any fencing. Alarms are nice and all, but allowing kiddos access to just wander onto it is a conscious design choice. |
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Post by darththulhu on Aug 24, 2015 18:08:28 GMT
Also, sigh, guess it's going to be that he's back in GKC to protect Annie from whatever the Court was planning to do to her if he didn't intervene to get her under control. I legitimately can't imagine what other leverage they could possibly use against him. They can also point out multiple God-level etheric threats to her well-being. The immediately subsequent chapter to Divine is Ysengrin flipping out and attacking Annie when Coyote directly summoned Annie to the Forest and set up Ysengrin's freak-out. Very shortly thereafter, the Court declines to make Annie the Court medium and tries to cut off her at-will summonability to the Forest, but Coyote does an end-run around this by kicking Ysengrin to the curb and appointing Annie to the suddenly-vacant Forest medium position. Very soon, the Court will be able to very calmly point out some simple Truths to Tony: 1) Reynardine tried to kill her 2) Ysengrin tried to kill her 3) Coyote can presently summon her at will 4) She's failing most of her classes Nevermind any additional threats the Court might have up their sleeve. At that point, they have his attention. |
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Post by wombat140 on Aug 24, 2015 18:18:57 GMT
Eh don't worry guys he's probably building to "but I remembered Antimony" or "but I thought of Antimony." "...and how I could work out all my issues and make all my failures disappear through raising her into my ideal of perfection." What could possibly go wrong with this? Perceptive. PXC, too. That actually makes a kind of sense of how his first actions on meeting Annie again are to take her to task for cheating in her homework and wearing way too much make-up (way too much to be appropriate in school, anyway, forest medium or not). After realising that in fact he's not just failed Surma but also Annie, he tries to make amends by getting Annie's upbringing back in hand - but being half-crazy with grief, major depression, possibly after-effects of his injuries too, as well as having no more social skills than he ever had, his way of doing it is totally stupid. Yes, somebody needed to tackle her about those things, but somebody also needed to, you know, actually talk to her... I'm puzzled why so many people are still saying they don't know why Tony's been refusing to speak to Annie after that. It's been spelt out in the comic; Tony's not sending Annie to Coventry for any reason at all - he's sending himself to Coventry. Rather than refusing to speak to Annie because he's angry with her for some mystery reason, he's refusing to let Annie speak to *him* because he's angry with himself on Annie's behalf. That's him being unselfish - only he hasn't twigged that it's doing anything BUT help. I'm grateful to this comic; I act like that myself sometimes when I've done something bad through no fault of my own, and this has knocked it into my head just how annoying it is from everyone else's perspective. I've never quite got the hating-Tony thing, but I want more than ever to pick him up and shake him. |
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quark
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Post by quark on Aug 24, 2015 18:34:55 GMT
His behaviour probably has a lot to do with the reason why he's back in the Court. Notice that the Court watching him constantly has been brought up more than once during this chapter, and he gives very different face when (he believes) he is alone with Mr. Donlan. The Court watches everyone constantly. The kids (and likely the staff) all have trackers in their food, for starters. There is no reason to imagine the Court can't quietly get at anything seen by any robot. Tony straight-up discussed "removing all the bugs" in his building. Part-etherial critters like Bud and Lindsey hang about and spy. It's a near-total surveillance state with multiple layers of redundancy. It all makes the Court's general non-intervention on matters like Zimmy and the Torn Sea cruise and crazy-Jack slinking around and Annie's cheating Super Extra Creepy. They KNOW stuff is going on (they know when and where trackers are going silent, if nothing else), but they almost never directly intervene, even when a Shipful of Trackers goes out and Lindsey watches the sea tear open next to her. Their complete willingness to do stuff like silently watch kiddo-Annie's tracker approach bound-Renard-Sivo's body is deeply creepifying. Likewise, their willingness to have the Bridge Without Safety Rails to the Forest of Angry Shadow People just sit right there, without any fencing. Alarms are nice and all, but allowing kiddos access to just wander onto it is a conscious design choice. Everything you mentioned brought me on another train of thought - yes, the court watches everybody, but they're not a particularly efficient organisation. That's the problem with every surveillance state - you have all these agents, all this information, you open every letter and have free agent listening into every conversation. That's a lot of information, even if it's properly stored and recorded, easily accessible and searchable which the Court's information is certainly not. I bet they don't have enough people to review it all, and what's more - the information they get isn't really that good either. The robots are hilariously inefficient, the scientific equipment didn't even notice that the moon went missing (or had at least Annie's fingerprint applied), Bud and Lindsey are powerful creatures that use their own discretion a lot, and they let realitywarpers like Zimmy walk around like they own the place. Not even the court can track people in horrifying-industrial-nightmareland, even if they tried. I think it's part bureaucracy and inefficiency and part design - genius minds don't work that well if they're under constant supervision, and Zimmy can't bear it at all. The court's method of education is dangerous, but very liberal. They just offer all kinds of resources to teachers and children and see who comes out - sometimes it's somebody like Parley, a highly intelligent, powerful swordfigher that could give Ysengrin a run for his money and sometimes it's somebody like Kat who constructs an AntiGrav machine for a science fair. The surveillance is not to prevent stuff, it's for figuring out what happened afterwards and maybe using it to their gain. |
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ysca
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Post by ysca on Aug 24, 2015 18:45:58 GMT
It's so sad and frustrating that Tony thinks him rotting in the desert is better for Annie than him...being alive and there for her. I can't even imagine Annie's reaction if she had learnt the only family she has left had been found half eaten in the middle of nowhere. As others have said, I think he's too far gone into depression to even realize his thoughts or actions are completely irrational (which doesn't excuse his behavior but partly explains it). Honestly, as someone who has suffered from severe clinical depression, to the point of trying to kill myself more than once, I completely understand thinking your loved ones are better off without you. A couple of years ago I would have told you with complete sincerity that my family would be better off without me, they just didn't realize it. I was causing them so much pain, and I felt like I was the source of so many problems for them that I honestly thought they would be so much happier with me gone. They might be upset at fist, but they would see soon enough that it was for the best. Depression as this terrible way of making it so hard to see any other perspective than your own. It's an incredibly self-centered illness, not because the person suffering from it is meaning to be self-centered, but because you become pre-occupied with your pain and your failures, and you hate yourself for those things, then you hate yourself for being so pre-occupied with your own problems, which just feeds into the cycle. It's so hard to escape, especially when it's wrapped up in so much guilt. It's taken me years of almost daily therapy and a lot of a medication to get to the point where I think my family was right, and they are happier with me in their lives and life is worth living, and even now I still have days where I doubt those things. Basically, Tony really needs to go see a therapist. |
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