QuotePilgrim
Full Member
Behind my door, there are twelve other doors.
Posts: 142
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Post by QuotePilgrim on Jul 18, 2015 14:39:35 GMT
Well, I don’t read a lot of webcomics... Phil Foglio draws Girl Genius, the steampunk fantasy webcomic set in an alternative past Earth where children are born without shins and any facial symmetry is purely coincidental. Or in other words, he has evolved his own very distinctive art style. Somehow it is good anyway. Unlike Mr. Siddell, Phil is not a one-man-band; he shares writing credit with his wife, Kaja, and colors are done by Cheyenne Wright. Since of his early involvement in the SF fan community and his work for Dragon magazine and through regular convention appearances Phil has become an icon of geekdom par excellence. If they gave knighthoods for geek culture in America, Phil would have one of the first order with stars and triple spray-cheese clusters. I am actually aware of Girl Genius and its authors. I know Phil Foglio because he illustrated a bunch of Magic: The Gathering cards, and I really like his illustrations. I just have never bothered to read one single page of that webcomic, so there’s nothing I can say about its quality. Anyway, I think I detracted too much from the point I was trying to make, that is: even if Tom was the best comic author that ever existed, and he paid an inhuman amount of attention to detail, it would still be realistic to think that he might sometimes get distracted and make a mistake. It’s so easy to make a mistake and not notice that it’s pretty much unavoidable. If I remember right, in the previous chapter Tom had the tail of a speech bubble pointing in the wrong direction, until someone pointed it out and he fixed it. He also had made a few typos in the exact same page. |
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karl
New Member
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Post by karl on Jul 18, 2015 15:14:43 GMT
I'm kind of thinking that after realizing that her temper is a problem, what Antimony should have done is to find an fire and explosion-proof (henceforth called "Antimony-proof") room where she could rage all she wants without actually harming anyone (given that the fire does not harm herself). Also she could train her fire-abilities there as well which would provide a convenient excuse for her. Heck, actually exploding now would have been the better solution in the long run. The dorm should be empty, with the exception of Renard, who would hopefully be fine, and a couple of metallic fools. Something she can't do any damage to, eh? "Ms. Jones, would you mind coming here for a second? And wear this mask of my father's face..." Jones' diary: The Antimony anger-management project (AAMP). Day 18 I am running out of clothes to wear. Perhaps I should ask James to lend me his armour. |
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Post by geoduck on Jul 18, 2015 17:44:41 GMT
I'm kind of thinking that after realizing that her temper is a problem, what Antimony should have done is to find an fire and explosion-proof (henceforth called "Antimony-proof") room where she could rage all she wants without actually harming anyone (given that the fire does not harm herself). Also she could train her fire-abilities there as well which would provide a convenient excuse for her. It's very likely that's exactly what her current living quarters are. |
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karl
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by karl on Jul 18, 2015 19:00:47 GMT
I'm kind of thinking that after realizing that her temper is a problem, what Antimony should have done is to find an fire and explosion-proof (henceforth called "Antimony-proof") room where she could rage all she wants without actually harming anyone (given that the fire does not harm herself). Also she could train her fire-abilities there as well which would provide a convenient excuse for her. It's very likely that's exactly what her current living quarters are. That room shouldn't be the living quarter though. And it would have been nice if she'd have that place before Anthony happened. |
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anisky
Junior Member
Posts: 72 
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Post by anisky on Jul 18, 2015 19:45:03 GMT
I'm kind of thinking that after realizing that her temper is a problem, what Antimony should have done is to find an fire and explosion-proof (henceforth called "Antimony-proof") room where she could rage all she wants without actually harming anyone (given that the fire does not harm herself). Also she could train her fire-abilities there as well which would provide a convenient excuse for her. It's very likely that's exactly what her current living quarters are. Which would definitely imply Tony knowing *something*-- either that Annie and her elemental are split, or just that Annie is having enough anger issues that she needs a Antimony-proof room. Or, I suppose, he's just being super-cautious. Or he figures that his experiments may go wrong and that could lead to much fire. Actually there are enough different possibilities here that it doesn't tell us much of anything about Tony.  |
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Post by warrl on Jul 19, 2015 0:36:37 GMT
The fact that the loonie theory regarding separating her fire elemental side out simply by giving herself a mundane haircut might be true doesn't make it any less loonie. I'm just saying. I'm going for the inverse theory: she etherically separates herself from her fire elemental side and her hair mysteriously gets shorter. Not cut - there's no hair lying on the floor. Just shorter. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Jul 19, 2015 1:11:12 GMT
I am still wondering about that blinker stone. Why? How will it serve her purpose? I suppose the soul gem/horcrux theory is as good as any. Will she use it to pull the fire to the end of her hair, then make the cut? |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 19, 2015 3:39:51 GMT
Annie overreacting like I said she was doing all along. Fancy that. Some people are never satisfied. This is the first time in the history of the comic that she has actually tried to control her anger instead of let it take over and do something rash that puts others at risk. Anger which, by the way, we have learned is more than just an emotion for her to deal with since it is fueled, literally, by an etheric spirit/fire elemental that is inside her. All of which suggests that managing her anger is a lot harder than just taking a deep breath and counting to ten like normal people. But you're probably right. She's just overreacting. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 19, 2015 6:38:36 GMT
It's very likely that's exactly what her current living quarters are. Which would definitely imply Tony knowing *something* Almost like... he knew someone like this?  I am still wondering about that blinker stone. Why? How will it serve her purpose? [pokemons skipped] The connection works both ways, as sakyru noted: I haven't seen/maybe missed out discussion about this page: gunnerkrigg.com/?p=984Was it ever answered or discussed what kind of difference it made to have her hair forcefully seperated from her body in the ether? |
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Post by geoduck on Jul 19, 2015 7:25:44 GMT
It's very likely that's exactly what her current living quarters are. Which would definitely imply Tony knowing *something*-- either that Annie and her elemental are split, or just that Annie is having enough anger issues that she needs a Antimony-proof room. Or, I suppose, he's just being super-cautious. Or he figures that his experiments may go wrong and that could lead to much fire. Actually there are enough different possibilities here that it doesn't tell us much of anything about Tony. Or Annie even asks him to be put in a room where the fire elemental can't hurt anyone.. |
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Post by Onomatopoeia on Jul 19, 2015 7:35:46 GMT
Some people are never satisfied. This is the first time in the history of the comic that she has actually tried to control her anger instead of let it take over and do something rash that puts others at risk. Anger which, by the way, we have learned is more than just an emotion for her to deal with since it is fueled, literally, by an etheric spirit/fire elemental that is inside her. All of which suggests that managing her anger is a lot harder than just taking a deep breath and counting to ten like normal people. But you're probably right. She's just overreacting. Nothing in life is easy. Being hard isn't an excuse not to do it. She's not trying to control it, she's literally cutting it out because she can't be bothered to deal with it. At what point does it become a good idea to crudely amputate parts of your personality because it's easier than learning to control your out-of-control emotions? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because the answer is "Never." If I'm unsatisfied with how Antimony is reacting it's because the way she's reacting is retarded. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 19, 2015 8:01:05 GMT
Nothing in life is easy. Being hard isn't an excuse not to do it. She's not trying to control it, she's literally cutting it out because she can't be bothered to deal with it. At what point does it become a good idea to crudely amputate parts of your personality because it's easier than learning to control your out-of-control emotions? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because the answer is "Never." You're applying normal human values to a situation where they don't apply. Tom has shown us in a very literal fashion that her situation is not normal and that she is not wholly human. "Retarded" means "mental retardation", a physiological condition that prevents proper mental development in children. It's a serious condition, and using it as an insult is, frankly, beyond crass. Please grow up. |
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Post by hajino on Jul 19, 2015 8:11:39 GMT
So Annie always had anger issues. Ysengrin tells her he treats it as a separate entity or a personal demon, he has to fight all the time.
And now her father is back and it's emotional overload and she loves him, but he abandoned her for years and takes everything from her that keeps her grounded in this lifestyle (whether on purpose or not is debatable) in just a few minutes. It is only natural to feel angry at him. But Annie probably isn't able to see it like that. People never reacted positively to her anger bursts before or talked it through with her. And the only friend she can talk about it is so messed up, that he tells her, being angry is like being a monster. She is a teenager for god's sake.
For her it melts down to: Being angry = being bad. And now she cuts these emotions off.
She really needs a sane parental figure in her life and as of now Anthony doesn't seem up to the task.
Still waiting for the other shoe to drop, though. There must be reason she silenced Renard, I imagine the next few pages really won't be pretty.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 19, 2015 8:36:12 GMT
I am still wondering about that blinker stone. Why? How will it serve her purpose? I suppose the soul gem/horcrux theory is as good as any. Will she use it to pull the fire to the end of her hair, then make the cut? It serves as a lens for mojo. Maybe it could be thought of here as an amp or a crutch? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 19, 2015 8:51:58 GMT
Nothing in life is easy. Being hard isn't an excuse not to do it. She's not trying to control it, she's literally cutting it out because she can't be bothered to deal with it. At what point does it become a good idea to crudely amputate parts of your personality because it's easier than learning to control your out-of-control emotions? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because the answer is "Never." You're applying normal human values to a situation where they don't apply. Tom has shown us in a very literal fashion that her situation is not normal and that she is not wholly human. "Retarded" means "mental retardation", a physiological condition that prevents proper mental development in children. It's a serious condition, and using it as an insult is, frankly, beyond crass. Please grow up. While calling someone a "retard" has been justly deemed socially unacceptable In My Humble Opinion, I hesitate to extend that ban to the word "retarded" in any circumstance except for clinical diagnosis of cognitive developmental disability. I am not a mind reader so I do not know if "retarded" in the post you quoted was meant as an insult or to refer to Antimony's emotional development but in context I'm thinking it was the latter, though possibly semihyperbolic. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 19, 2015 14:10:05 GMT
While calling someone a "retard" has been justly deemed socially unacceptable In My Humble Opinion, In My Humble Opinion, misrepresenting statements of wishful thinking as universal facts is a little bit... well... you know. In other news, while usually answering obvious troll messages is commented with "don't feed", how should we comment overquoting the overquoted answers to troll messages? Overfeeding? Does anyone kknow what happens when you overfeed a troll? And, more to the point, does anyone want to know? And, in other other news, but still about terms: I call this activity... " non-interactive".  |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 19, 2015 15:39:24 GMT
While calling someone a "retard" has been justly deemed socially unacceptable In My Humble Opinion, I hesitate to extend that ban to the word "retarded" in any circumstance except for clinical diagnosis of cognitive developmental disability. Talk to a parent of a child with Down Syndrome. Both of these uses are triggers. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 19, 2015 19:14:09 GMT
[W]hile usually answering obvious troll messages is commented with "don't feed", how should we comment overquoting the overquoted answers to troll messages? Overfeeding? Does anyone kknow what happens when you overfeed a troll? And, more to the point, does anyone want to know? Haven't you ever wondered what would happen if you fed a mogwai to another mogwai after midnight? While calling someone a "retard" has been justly deemed socially unacceptable In My Humble Opinion, I hesitate to extend that ban to the word "retarded" in any circumstance except for clinical diagnosis of cognitive developmental disability. Talk to a parent of a child with Down Syndrome. Both of these uses are triggers. If I said that I think the pesticide my neighbor uses has retarded the growth of my flowers am I being insensitive to caregivers of or people with Down Syndrome? |
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Post by keef on Jul 19, 2015 22:22:00 GMT
In other news, while usually answering obvious troll messages is commented with "don't feed", how should we comment overquoting the overquoted answers to troll messages? Overfeeding? Does anyone know what happens when you overfeed a troll? Do you think we could make it explode? I would feed it the wafer-thin mint myself. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 19, 2015 23:06:42 GMT
If I said that I think the pesticide my neighbor uses has retarded the growth of my flowers am I being insensitive to caregivers of or people with Down Syndrome? I'll just assume that you understand the difference between the two usages of the word and are trying to be funny here. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Jul 20, 2015 2:25:27 GMT
Haven't you ever wondered what would happen if you fed a mogwai to another mogwai after midnight? Headfish and music. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 20, 2015 2:37:21 GMT
Annie overreacting like I said she was doing all along. Fancy that. Some people are never satisfied. This is the first time in the history of the comic that she has actually tried to control her anger instead of let it take over and do something rash that puts others at risk. Anger which, by the way, we have learned is more than just an emotion for her to deal with since it is fueled, literally, by an etheric spirit/fire elemental that is inside her. All of which suggests that managing her anger is a lot harder than just taking a deep breath and counting to ten like normal people. But you're probably right. She's just overreacting. You fool! You responded to Onomatopoeia! You have now kicked the hornets' nest. May Coyote have mercy on your soul, and let the conversation thread die quickly. I find it interesting that whenever he posts, not many people respond anymore. I believe this is because many people have blocked him after the last incident. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 20, 2015 2:42:10 GMT
You responded to Onomatopoeia! You have now kicked the hornets' nest. May Coyote have mercy on your soul, and end your torments quickly. Yes, but I had something I was going to say anyway and their post was a convenient place to hang it. I'm done, though. Promise.  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 20, 2015 2:57:42 GMT
May Coyote have mercy on your soul, and let the conversation thread die quickly. Nah. As long as things are civil the forum is for discussing the comic. Small, insulated forums can even benefit from mild trolling now and then to keep them from becoming overly-isolated and weird, and I'm not absolutely sure he was trolling. And that's why the civility question becomes important. If I said that I think the pesticide my neighbor uses has retarded the growth of my flowers am I being insensitive to caregivers of or people with Down Syndrome? I'll just assume that you understand the difference between the two usages of the word and are trying to be funny here. I am trying to keep things light but there is a serious and timely question here. I think it's unreasonable to expect people who introduce chemicals to tissue samples, incubate them, and then contrast them with a control group to never use the "R-word" when they write up their reports. Likewise the softer sciences try to come up with some similar protocols and use the same word sometimes. Leaving aside the ongoing debate on the case being strong or weak or just wrong, there was a debate where Antimony's emotional development is in question. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 20, 2015 3:08:35 GMT
I am trying to keep things light but there is a serious and timely question here. I think it's unreasonable to expect people who introduce chemicals to tissue samples, incubate them, and then contrast them with a control group to never use the "R-word" when they write up their reports. Fair enough. I don't know of anyone who objects to that usage. Using it as an insult or flippant remark on a person's behavior is another matter. Agreed, though I don't think that the clinical use was what was intended. I'm also not sure it applies as Ino longer believe that Antimony's emotional development is the real issue here. Yes, we've seen a lot of outbursts from her over the years and have always assumed that they were because her father (and to a lesser extent, her mother) kept her isolated in Good Hope. While that certainly did not help, we've learned very, very recently that Coyote was not just being figurative when he asked if she felt "her temper flaring" deep inside her. In this chapter, Ysengrin was speaking metaphorically about his anger being a personal demon. But with Annie...there is a manifestation of some sort, an aspect to her personality due to her fire elemental heritage, that appears to play an active role in her emotions. Even Zimmy saw it. I am now taking that "No wonder you're like this Carver" comment at face value. Annie was pretty stoic when she entered the Court. It was when she started visiting Coyote and bringing herself more in tune with the ether that her anger issues really started surfacing. This isn't a metaphor for Annie: it's a real thing that influences her. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 20, 2015 4:18:49 GMT
I am trying to keep things light but there is a serious and timely question here. I think it's unreasonable to expect people who introduce chemicals to tissue samples, incubate them, and then contrast them with a control group to never use the "R-word" when they write up their reports. Fair enough. I don't know of anyone who objects to that usage. Neither do I but I'm sure there's someone on the internet somewhere. But my point is that there's a spectrum. Nearly no one would object to the word "retarded" in the hard sciences, few people would object to it being used in the soft sciences, but as you progress outward through other fields of study more and more people find it objectionable in a way that I think doesn't scan. I don't think it's wrong to say that a cultural movement became retarded because some factor that caused its spread in some area became mitigated, or that a stone-age people's progress with ballistic weapons can be retarded by forced migration away from easy sources of workable stone, or that the fall of the Minoan civilization led to a decrease in the papyrus trade which retarded and more importantly redirected the literary... Well, you get the idea. Using it as an insult or flippant remark on a person's behavior is another matter. Agreed but put what he unartfully said in context with your post he was quoting and I think the door is cracked open. Tie goes to the runner. Agreed, though I don't think that the clinical use was what was intended. I'm also not sure it applies as Ino longer believe that Antimony's emotional development is the real issue here. Yes, we've seen a lot of outbursts from her over the years and have always assumed that they were because her father (and to a lesser extent, her mother) kept her isolated in Good Hope. While that certainly did not help, we've learned very, very recently that Coyote was not just being figurative when he asked if she felt "her temper flaring" deep inside her. In this chapter, Ysengrin was speaking metaphorically about his anger being a personal demon. But with Annie...there is a manifestation of some sort, an aspect to her personality due to her fire elemental heritage, that appears to play an active role in her emotions. Even Zimmy saw it. I am now taking that "No wonder you're like this Carver" comment at face value. Annie was pretty stoic when she entered the Court. It was when she started visiting Coyote and bringing herself more in tune with the ether that her anger issues really started surfacing. This isn't a metaphor for Annie: it's a real thing that influences her. Consider the people that Antimony was exposed to in the hospital setting: people with medical conditions who either recovered or who died. They disappeared one way or another. Likely they did so fairly quickly because her father's wing was the dice and slice wing, not the terminal ill wing. She apparently did not friendships with any staff members, at least not that we know of. This may have been because her father was a known jerk. She had her mom, her mom died. That is an environment that might teach a child that bonding with people is not useful. I wonder how old she was when she saw her first cadaver? My personal position is that Antimony is a child and isn't able to deal with the situation she's in; I think the rapidity with which she changed in the comic shows that Antimony is not emotionally retarded, though perhaps scarred, but this may be something that the comic will prove me wrong on later. I believe that Antimony is unable to live without the fire but am not sure that the fire is an individual thing with a will of its own; there may not be enough information in the comic to decide that yet. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 20, 2015 4:23:19 GMT
My personal position is that Antimony is a child and isn't able to deal with the situation she's in; I think the rapidity with which she changed in the comic shows that Antimony is not emotionally retarded, though perhaps scarred, but this may be something that the comic will prove me wrong on later. I believe that Antimony is unable to live without the fire but am not sure that the fire is an individual thing with a will of its own; there may not be enough information in the comic to decide that yet. Whether it's an individual being or just a facet of her self, it is still not something that a "normal" human has and it still influences her. Your question on whether she can survive with it separated from her like this is the million dollar question...or one of them, anyway. We are defintiely in uncharted waters here. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 20, 2015 4:42:39 GMT
Whether it's an individual being or just a facet of her self, it is still not something that a "normal" human has and it still influences her. We do have Surma, not just Antimony's classmates, for comparison. I mean her old classmates, not her new ones. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 20, 2015 4:46:20 GMT
Does anyone kknow what happens when you overfeed a troll? And, more to the point, does anyone want to know? They start owning your lane, and then their jungler comes in and ganks you hard because your build isn't even started yet. |
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Post by Onomatopoeia on Jul 20, 2015 8:05:55 GMT
You're applying normal human values to a situation where they don't apply. Tom has shown us in a very literal fashion that her situation is not normal and that she is not wholly human. "She's not normal" isn't an excuse either. It does not alleviate her from the responsibility to control her emotions, or seek a productive outlet for them. Now if severing parts of your personality using etheric abilities because you're unwilling to deal with them is typical behavior for fire elementals you might MIGHT have something approaching a real argument. But we do not have such information. This is self-injury. She is harming herself as an alternative to dealing with her problems because it's easier that way. dictionary.reference.com/browse/retarded2. Slang. stupid or foolish. Accurate description by my book. |
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