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Post by goldenknots on Jul 13, 2015 11:23:28 GMT
More to come; no rounded corners yet, so the flashback will go on.
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Post by mordekai on Jul 13, 2015 12:34:42 GMT
No! No! Bad Renart! Bad dog! Don't teach people to stay in abusive relationships! Bad kind of teachings! Bad!
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Post by rinabean on Jul 13, 2015 12:48:29 GMT
He would be so upset to learn what she's done and that she did it based on his advice. He was so happy to watch Annie grow into her elemental side This is awful  |
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 13, 2015 13:49:13 GMT
This page strikes me as odd. It's rather out of character for Ysengrin to say something like this - and while this page shows greater depths in a relatively simple character (as Tom specializes in), this is rather sudden.
Was this how Ysengrin was before Coyote started meddling? I would have doubted that before this page...
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Post by nero on Jul 13, 2015 15:49:56 GMT
The next couple of pages are going to so unnerving. I don't think Annie sees the fire elemental part of her as a demon but she separated herself because she felt she would lose to her anger.
Its been stated in the comic how Annie's volatile side was something she got from Surma. So the fire elemental, which is all from her mother, is what she thought she needed to remove.
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Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
Posts: 146
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Post by Sadie on Jul 13, 2015 16:27:45 GMT
This is like the other shoe from "Fire Spike" finally dropping. Annie massively lost her temper once in the wake of emotional, parent-related distress, and in doing so, strained a bunch of relationships and put people she cared about at risk. Now she'll do anything to contain that particular demon... you know, anything that doesn't involve asking for help or trusting others.
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Post by Eversist on Jul 13, 2015 16:57:48 GMT
When I saw this last night... that doorway is her freaking out after what Rey told her about Surma, right? Gotta go back and look at the colors. (Edit: Purple door and frame, but grey wall, nevermind. Obvis the Friends apartment dorms.) Or does it make more sense that it's her POV while removing her elemental side? I guess we'll find out Wednesday, hah. Not the best guy to take advice from about anger issues. Particularly when you consider his memories are swiss cheese thus blocking out the worst of it. It's sad and interesting how Annie chose Ys as a role model and confidant. I guess the Donlans were too close to her dad, she's never been overly fond of Eglamore, and we haven't really be provided with many others (Parley maybe not old enough, Jones not really a... person in the traditional sense). Another thing we can partially blame Anthony for. :[ |
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Post by machival on Jul 13, 2015 17:24:15 GMT
This page strikes me as odd. It's rather out of character for Ysengrin to say something like this - and while this page shows greater depths in a relatively simple character (as Tom specializes in), this is rather sudden. Was this how Ysengrin was before Coyote started meddling? I would have doubted that before this page... Well, we are missing a lot of context in that interaction. It might not have seemed out of character if we saw what caused Ysengrin to open up about that. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 13, 2015 17:53:12 GMT
Despite her flaws--and all good characters have flaws, sometimes even deep ones, which is what makes them good characters--I really believe that Annie has been good for Ysengrin. Yeah, he's still a grump of sorts and he had that moment where he snapped, but overall the Ysengrin on page 1369 is very different from the one we met several years ago. His mental stability is not something that is going to be fixed by having a confidant and friend from the Court, but there is a lot about him that can be and has been changed by her relationship with him. Certainly his advice isn't the best, and Annie is taking things to the extreme here, but...she's figuring it out. We still don't know exactly what is going on in this chapter, but one thing is clear: she is no longer solving her problems by running away. Is this better or worse? That remains to be seen. But she is taking real responsibility for herself and her actions for what may be the first time in her life. |
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Post by Trillium on Jul 13, 2015 18:20:07 GMT
In Ch. 44, Crash Course Annie showed a great deal of control of her fire power and Ysengrin said he would teach her about the “other” creatures and the ways of the forest. I think they got to know each other better after that adventure.
During that story, pg. 1258 Annie looked like she channeled her fire elemental to the point where her appearance changed. She and the fire element were united in action.
We have seen this kind of situation before, characters learning to deal with inner powers, entities or natures. Naruto and Bleach have this element at the heart of their stories. Spiritual writing going back millennia talk about these struggles.
Annie has externalized her fire element and now both of them have to deal with each other and the world. I think they are going to find they do it together better than apart. Both probably need a lot of guidance.
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Post by smurfton on Jul 13, 2015 18:38:44 GMT
This page strikes me as odd. It's rather out of character for Ysengrin to say something like this - and while this page shows greater depths in a relatively simple character (as Tom specializes in), this is rather sudden. Was this how Ysengrin was before Coyote started meddling? I would have doubted that before this page... I thought that was in character, personally. Maybe out of character for his portrayal of himself as the General, but he felt safe and comfortable enough to not be in the tree suit, admitting his personal weakness. Why should he feel shy about talking about his weaknesses if he already trusts and respects Antimony so much? I think before Coyote's influence, the trust issues would still be there. There's no way he wasn't betrayed multiple times for the sake of humor in Reynard the Fox. |
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Post by fwip on Jul 13, 2015 18:53:20 GMT
Do you play dwarf fortress? I used to. That was a Dwarf Fortress reference. |
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Post by sherni on Jul 13, 2015 18:59:40 GMT
I really, really hope she does not consider her elemental side as a 'personal demon'. It's a part of her- something she needs. Ysengrin's advice makes perfect sense if you're dealing with a bad temper, but I think Fire-Annie here is much, much more. I think Annie somehow cut off not just her anger, but a large chunk of her emotions as well. Maybe there was just enough left in her human body for her to express emotion but otherwise she's more or less empty. While Fire-Annie is pure, unrestrained, uninhibited emotion, only tempered by the presence of her other half.
I love these moments between Annie and Ysengrin. He truly is a wonderful character, and it really makes me despise Coyote for the way he uses Ysengrin for his own amusement. Or... is it because he's afraid of competition? Does he know, somewhere in his twisted mind, that Ysengrin could do a far better job of ruling the Woods than he can, and therefore must be kept down? It's Coyote, so who knows?
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 13, 2015 19:03:58 GMT
I used to. That was a Dwarf Fortress reference. I tried a few times. I mean I really, honestly tried. Read some tutorials, got familiar with the basics and sat down with it enough to give it a real go. And quickly discovered that I could either invest the time and energy that it would take to truly learn and play the game successfully, or I could stay married. |
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Post by todd on Jul 14, 2015 0:20:06 GMT
Given just how menacing the fire elemental's been looking in the past few pages, the words "personal demon" seem ominous - I'd been thinking that it appeared almost like a demon (particularly the way its separated hair suggested wings) even before this page.
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Post by Nnelg on Jul 14, 2015 1:49:43 GMT
You know, this page just reinforces my previous belief that Elemental Annie isn't a literal being. Although everyone else here seems to assume it is a self-extant entity separate from Normal Annie, I think it's closer to a visual representation of Annie's internal struggle controlling her emotions.
Now, I'd conclude that it were no more real than an imaginary friend, but this is Gunnerkrigg Court. In the Aether, the line between between truth and symbolism is far more blurred. So instead, I'll say it's likely about as real as a head pigeon.
PS:
In either case, I don't think Annie (or her father for that matter) took any more drastic measures than a conventional, if somewhat severe, suppression of emotion. Externalizing Elemental Annie is a side effect, not the objective.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 14, 2015 3:04:57 GMT
I think Nnelg is correct, Antimony's rage elemental is no more real than I am. |
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elebenty
Junior Member
Better than bubble wrap.
Posts: 83
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Post by elebenty on Jul 14, 2015 5:55:28 GMT
Obvis the Friends apartment dorms. Or does it make more sense that it's her POV while removing her elemental side? I guess we'll find out Wednesday, hah. The POV is pretty low to the ground. Is this "The Hair as It Fell" -- an earliest memory of being separated? |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 14, 2015 8:57:18 GMT
I guess the Donlans were too close to her dad, she's never been overly fond of Eglamore, That, and she have a good reason to not trust them. and we haven't really be provided with many others (Parley maybe not old enough, Jones not really a... person in the traditional sense). Jones probably can't really help. The one with whom Annie had to talk this over is Jenny. But they have seen each other about 1.5 times - evidently, for Jenny it's enough to address someone as "my love", but for Annie... if she was half that easygoing, perhaps she won't have this problem in the first place. During the first time appearance he was posturing before a bunch of humans, some of whom were set out to annoy him on purpose (which probably wasn't a surprise). The other time, he was at home - and among etheric creatures, even if two of them, unfortunately, are humans more than halfway.  |
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Post by aline on Jul 14, 2015 10:24:33 GMT
But Surma had a worse temper than Annie. Even he should know the potential for a berserk rage on Annie's part, after all she did engage in one in "Fire Spike". Perhaps he can't see it because to do so he would have to see how he looks to others. There's a lot we don't know about Surma and Tony's relationship, so that's just guessing but... I see Surma more as expressing her temper constantly by smaller acts, while Annie is more like a sleeping volcano. Every urge to snap at people is supressed, supressed... until it eventually explodes. Just before Fire Spike, there's a couple of pages where we see that building up. Every time she gets angrier but she keeps smiling at everyone. I doubt Surma would have done that. She'd have snapped at them all and got it out of her system.
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Post by Eversist on Jul 14, 2015 16:11:11 GMT
I guess the Donlans were too close to her dad, she's never been overly fond of Eglamore, That, and she has a good reason to not trust them. I guess? IMO, protecting her from the truth (about her and her mother because she was young) doesn't really strike me as a reason to turn to a crazed wolf that tried to kill her for a role model. She trusts Rey, doesn't she? And he knew. Then again, I'm not a teenager, and I'm viewing this story from the outside. Unless you're talking about something else? She didn't seem overly fond of Eggers even before she knew he and her mother had history (if I'm not mistaken). I'm not sure if that's due to her elemental side, pride from being rescued by him, they're differing opinions on what to do with Rey at the beginning, the baggage between him and her father (and him not hiding it), him projecting Surma on to her, or what. Probably a big combo. Just spitballin'. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jul 14, 2015 19:13:48 GMT
That, and she has a good reason to not trust them. I guess? IMO, protecting her from the truth (about her and her mother because she was young) doesn't really strike me as a reason to turn to a crazed wolf that tried to kill her for a role model. With "Izzy" everything is on the table. With him, you know it won't require any effort to see whether he wants to rip your throat out or not. And if he's capable of articulate speech a the moment, he will even say why. She trusts Rey, doesn't she? And he knew. Still, he sort of tried to tell her before she discovered it. Also, he never formally had any role of responsibility for her, even if de facto tried. But has more of a personal connection, in that the only times we know of the trio talked about her parents at all was when Eggers vaguely grumbled about Anthony and Donald after her freak-out and almost the second one in Microsat 5. Which probably is the reason why she didn't see stealing photo was over the top or something, to think of it. Annie does trust Jones a lot, but Jones goes of her way to claim neutrality in just about every issue, and also is detached enough that for her "you didn't ask" is all justification needed. Then again, I'm not a teenager, and I'm viewing this story from the outside. Unless you're talking about something else? Technically, they all withheld information of life and death importance (literally) from her. And the consideration that such state of affair most likely was intended to be temporary (short of extreme misadventure on their side) doesn't make it much better: 1. Adds the judgement on whether she's "worthy" to know - specifically that she isn't. 2. Opens an even bigger can of worms - whether it happens at all is necessarily (as in, there's no known way to avoid this) contingent on her action. No matter how they would like to formulate the conditions (which remains in their heads anyway, and will be less than trustworthy later, unless they took some impressive steps to prevent this), she needs to at least be there at the time... and she knows there potentially could be reasons not to. 3. Was exactly what allowed the revelation to happen in a highly unpleasant way. Conversely, she does not have reasons to see them as anything more than strangers acting secretively "for your own good", that is a danger no matter what. Your first link is back from the time when Eggers had some brownie points with Annie - before he blew them by hissing at any mention of Anthony, which for her was a problem at better times. But by now, probably all together, yes. Either way, even if Annie did trust him fully, he would still be unsuitable for discussing anything even remotely related to Anthony, as far as she's concerned. |
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Post by Draxiss on Jul 14, 2015 19:41:49 GMT
I'm surprised more people aren't noticing how well their friendship is progressing. The first thing I noticed was how he's comfortable being out of his suit around her! It looks like the bond they made earlier is sticking. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1262 |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jul 14, 2015 20:44:48 GMT
Technically, they all withheld information of life and death importance (literally) from her. Well, if dumb ol' Antimony had simply adopted her father's disinterest in the etheric she would have reported Shadow 2 to the proper authorities instead of interacting with him and this comic wouldn't have happened. The invading shadow boy would have been dispatched (quietly, so as not to upset the children, of course). Then Antimony would have lived a studious life, perhaps at most studying mediumship sensibly with Jones after meeting Mort, who would still be here. She never would have taken an interest in putting together disassembled robots or going out to the forbidden bridge, and she certainly wouldn't have fallen off it. Therefore all this nonsense about "the fire within" and the unfortunate medical condition her line suffers from regarding pregnancy could have waited until she was much older. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Jul 15, 2015 5:11:35 GMT
I feel somewhat obligated to point out that this appears to have been intended for patrons only. |
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Post by Xan on Jul 15, 2015 9:16:45 GMT
I feel somewhat obligated to point out that this appears to have been intended for patrons only. Whoops! I thought I checked for that. Deleted. |
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Post by smurfton on Jul 16, 2015 7:16:46 GMT
I used to. That was a Dwarf Fortress reference. I tried a few times. I mean I really, honestly tried. Read some tutorials, got familiar with the basics and sat down with it enough to give it a real go. And quickly discovered that I could either invest the time and energy that it would take to truly learn and play the game successfully, or I could stay married. There's always the middleground Where you read or participate in stories on the forum. I've yet to see one that actually requires understanding the game, and for guaranteed quality, the Hall of Legendary Stories is long. |
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