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Post by aaroncampbell on Dec 8, 2014 17:40:53 GMT
I'm going to post these two links because they're fascinating and geeky in the extreme: Electric power supply quality in ship systems: An overviewHere's the introductory paragraph: Power Supply Quality (PSQ) has become an important concern for ship electric systems. Thus, deviations of voltage from nominal values and wave-shapes could cause several malfunctions, interruption or even damages of onboard equipment and systems. Considering that the ship system electrification eventually dominates according to the All Electric Ship concept, PSQ issues turn to be a key-factor of the normal operation, survivability and safety aboard. However, limited research work has been reported (even for more conventional ship types) on the investigation and classification of PSQ phenomena. This overview makes a short but coherent description and categorisation of the PSQ phenomena (causes, consequences, characteristic parameters etc) and is enriched by cross-references to relevant standards (international and national, military and commercial) applied in shipboard applications. and IACS' Requirements concerning ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONSHere's a relevant quote from one of the initial points as well: Any special system, e.g. electronic circuits, whose function cannot operate satisfactorily within the limits shown in the Table should not be supplied directly from the system but by alternative means, e.g. through stabilized supply
Both of the documents go into considerable detail regarding shipboard power -- the interaction of the various systems and the complexities involved in installation and isolation of them. Whether Kat is familiar with these things at all due to her various family vacations and/or personal research for fun, or is simply acting out of reflexive anger, well...that is open to interpretation. |
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Post by November on Dec 8, 2014 17:48:52 GMT
I was hoping that this chapter's contribution would be Kat's interest in doing this again in her lab, which would lead to discussions between Kat and Zimmy, who is afraid of her. It seems not. Remember that Zimmy is compared to an entire Ether station crammed into a person. Doing things like this later without Zimmy will definitely be possible. |
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Post by Covalent on Dec 8, 2014 18:08:17 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree.
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Post by artezzatrigger on Dec 8, 2014 18:17:41 GMT
The angel giveth, the angel taketh away?
Whichever way this is about to go I can feel another round of preaching coming.
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 8, 2014 19:02:37 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree. I'm pretty sure there would be some mitigating factors, namely 1) that the thing could still very likely hurt/kill people, just by sheer mass (ergo, self-defense), 2) do robots have rights? Not trying to be cynical, just wondering, technically speaking. 3) The fact that it's basically Kat's lab experiment gives her a decent amount of authority as to what is done with it. Not saying that makes it morally right, but just something that would hold up in a court of law. On another note, I think that it probably should be killed. It attempted mass murder as a side effect of achieving its ends. So perhaps morally right after all. |
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Post by aaroncampbell on Dec 8, 2014 19:04:22 GMT
As Kat issues a short reply to her grounded foe, Tom closes yet another arc in the story. It'll be interesting to see what alternate path is taken from here!
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Post by davidm on Dec 8, 2014 20:31:34 GMT
"Cold blooded murder" - oh for the love of Boxbot! This whole chapter has had lots of kids violence against robots, did Jenny feel sorry when she zapped several times as many? Robots are an enslaved, mistreated, oppressed group, they aren't "worthy" of being considered alive, their feelings of love don't mean anything, just something to be ridiculed. " Terrible"   |
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 8, 2014 20:45:25 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree. I'm pretty sure there would be some mitigating factors, namely 1) that the thing could still very likely hurt/kill people, just by sheer mass (ergo, self-defense), 2) do robots have rights? Not trying to be cynical, just wondering, technically speaking. 3) The fact that it's basically Kat's lab experiment gives her a decent amount of authority as to what is done with it. Not saying that makes it morally right, but just something that would hold up in a court of law. On another note, I think that it probably should be killed. It attempted mass murder as a side effect of achieving its ends. So perhaps morally right after all. Whether or not robots have rights is not alone decisive for whether killing them intentionally is a murder or not, and the way where the capacity to be a victim of the gravest of crimes depends solely on the rights explicitly granted by the society is somewhat suspicious. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 8, 2014 21:06:37 GMT
This page confuses me. I don't know if Kat is trying to murder the thing, or what. It does not seem like that should be enough electricity to kill it or revive it, but who knows. The current is certainly traveling a very short distance, so it shouldn't do anything.*
I'm not sure if it's murder, persay. We know not whether this thing still has the intelligence of the ship, or if it's just now a mindless bulk floundering around. In the former case, regardless of if the ship deserves it, killing it would be either a murder or a mercy killing. In the latter case, certainly a mercy killing.
And I'm of the mind to wait for Wednesday and find out what Kat's intending.
*also, could you consider a boat at sea grounded? Both a serious question and a pun.
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Post by todd on Dec 8, 2014 23:15:11 GMT
I think that the whale-thing should be placed on trial by the proper authorities, whether the humans in charge of the Court or the robot community (I had a vision of the Robot King drawing one of those British judge's wigs at the edges of his face for the trial), rather than Kat serving as its judge, jury, and executioner - all the more so since I fear from the look on her face that this may be revenge. (And since the students got out of this alive and unharmed, putting the ship to death sounds all the more iffy.) Let's hope that the next page reveals she isn't planning to kill it after all.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 9, 2014 1:22:57 GMT
It took me all day, but I finally thought of something witty (I think) to say to the Seraph...
"God is coming and She is pissed"
I admit it, that was so derivative, if you measured the slope of my forehead, you would find it less than one.
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Post by arf on Dec 9, 2014 1:57:53 GMT
Kat may be trying to revive the Shipwhale but, from previous experience with this tech, I think it more likely she's putting the half-done mis-shapen thing out of its misery. (She may also be a little terse with the 'rescue squad' for this reason). The situation will become more clear in the next page.
Also, cue mass gagging. (and while students are pre-occupied, Robot will notch up some more creepy points by conducting another sermon.)
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 9, 2014 9:56:59 GMT
It does not seem like that should be enough electricity to kill it or revive it, but who knows. The current is certainly traveling a very short distance, This thing is obviously connected to the ship's hull, so no. Then again, the power line itself doesn't have to be - other than having relatively minuscle and mostly symmeetrical connection via capacitance. No idea how they actually do it on ships (let alone Court ships), but it's a known somewhat safer option when you have to set up a secondary power source anyway. This page confuses me. I don't know if Kat is trying to murder the thing, or what. Probably, a badly thought out attempt to burn it away. We know not whether this thing still has the intelligence of the ship, or if it's just now a mindless bulk floundering around. Probably not. We didn't see all the transition, but it looked like the ship's CPU is still in its place. And it didn't even have any apparent control connections to the muscle-goo other than etheric (by virtue of golem-core not quite being inert matter). So it's down to "did Kat and ship form much neurons from the inappropriate tissue". It does have teeth and an "eye", though... In the latter case, certainly a mercy killing. I doubt destruction of a mindless and non-viable tissue sample can qualify even as that. Except for S13, obviously.  |
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 9, 2014 14:19:25 GMT
I'm pretty sure there would be some mitigating factors, namely 1) that the thing could still very likely hurt/kill people, just by sheer mass (ergo, self-defense), 2) do robots have rights? Not trying to be cynical, just wondering, technically speaking. 3) The fact that it's basically Kat's lab experiment gives her a decent amount of authority as to what is done with it. Not saying that makes it morally right, but just something that would hold up in a court of law. On another note, I think that it probably should be killed. It attempted mass murder as a side effect of achieving its ends. So perhaps morally right after all. Whether or not robots have rights is not alone decisive for whether killing them intentionally is a murder or not, and the way where the capacity to be a victim of the gravest of crimes depends solely on the rights explicitly granted by the society is somewhat suspicious. From a legal standpoint (since someone was talking about "first degree murder", that's what we're dealing with), whether they have rights is kind of the basic question. That's all I was noting. For instance, I don't think you can legally have first degree murder of an animal. |
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Dec 9, 2014 16:37:53 GMT
From a legal standpoint (since someone was talking about "first degree murder", that's what we're dealing with), whether they have rights is kind of the basic question. That's all I was noting. For instance, I don't think you can legally have first degree murder of an animal. Robots aren't even considered alive from what we've seen, so they're just property (actually, they seem to create each other so I'm not sure who they belong to). There are laws against animal cruelty, but those would not apply to a robot. |
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Post by Lightice on Dec 9, 2014 22:09:51 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree. Unless Kat is in fact trying something akin to defibrillator treatment to save the Ship. He doesn't look very good even in the first panel... |
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Post by keef on Dec 9, 2014 23:31:06 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree. Nope, the ship/whale is not human, not alive, (artificial muscle doesn't count as life as far as I know)and it's brain (mainframe? CPU?) is probably still somewhere in the ship. On the other hand you might be right when talking about her intentions, because her motive seems to be revenge. But if she acts in anger wouldn't it be manslaughter? (Not a clue if that makes legal sense, but it sounds OK. Dutch law only has moord and doodslag, murder and manslaughter, never really understood how to murder someone in the second degree. Slightly kill him?) |
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Post by feraldog on Dec 10, 2014 4:06:28 GMT
Damn, Kat, pretty sure that was cold-blooded murder. In the first degree. Nope, the ship/whale is not human, not alive, (artificial muscle doesn't count as life as far as I know)and it's brain (mainframe? CPU?) is probably still somewhere in the ship. On the other hand you might be right when talking about her intentions, because her motive seems to be revenge. But if she acts in anger wouldn't it be manslaughter? (Not a clue if that makes legal sense, but it sounds OK. Dutch law only has moord and doodslag, murder and manslaughter, never really understood how to murder someone in the second degree. Slightly kill him?) Super short version First degree murder: The murder was planned out in advance ("I got fired. I'll wait in the parking lot to run him over.") Second degree murder: The murder was not planned in advance ("Man it sucks that I got fired. Guess I'll just go home... Is that my boss? Oooh, I'll show him!") |
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 10, 2014 14:20:15 GMT
Nope, the ship/whale is not human, not alive, (artificial muscle doesn't count as life as far as I know)and it's brain (mainframe? CPU?) is probably still somewhere in the ship. On the other hand you might be right when talking about her intentions, because her motive seems to be revenge. But if she acts in anger wouldn't it be manslaughter? (Not a clue if that makes legal sense, but it sounds OK. Dutch law only has moord and doodslag, murder and manslaughter, never really understood how to murder someone in the second degree. Slightly kill him?) Super short version First degree murder: The murder was planned out in advance ("I got fired. I'll wait in the parking lot to run him over.") Second degree murder: The murder was not planned in advance ("Man it sucks that I got fired. Guess I'll just go home... Is that my boss? Oooh, I'll show him!") So at the very worst, this would only be second degree murder... |
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Post by keef on Dec 10, 2014 14:35:05 GMT
Nope, the ship/whale is not human, not alive, (artificial muscle doesn't count as life as far as I know)and it's brain (mainframe? CPU?) is probably still somewhere in the ship. On the other hand you might be right when talking about her intentions, because her motive seems to be revenge. But if she acts in anger wouldn't it be manslaughter? (Not a clue if that makes legal sense, but it sounds OK. Dutch law only has moord and doodslag, murder and manslaughter, never really understood how to murder someone in the second degree. Slightly kill him?) Super short version First degree murder: The murder was planned out in advance ("I got fired. I'll wait in the parking lot to run him over.") Second degree murder: The murder was not planned in advance ("Man it sucks that I got fired. Guess I'll just go home... Is that my boss? Oooh, I'll show him!") OK thanks, that is exactly the same as as our murder and manslaughter. I thought it was something complicated. |
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Post by panecillo on Dec 10, 2014 14:41:22 GMT
"Cold blooded murder" - oh for the love of Boxbot! This whole chapter has had lots of kids violence against robots, did Jenny feel sorry when she zapped several times as many? Robots are an enslaved, mistreated, oppressed group, they aren't "worthy" of being considered alive, their feelings of love don't mean anything, just something to be ridiculed. " Terrible" Now that you mention it, thingh have really changed in the Court. |
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Post by blix1ms0ns on Dec 10, 2014 14:58:25 GMT
Does anyone notic that that looks like a giant form of Kats etheric form looming over the others students. Also who was kat refering to when she said she dont want to see them again
This is what zimmy saw and now the rest of the students see this now.
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1049
Now lets worry about what happens to the rest of the characters
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 10, 2014 18:33:44 GMT
Does anyone notic that that looks like a giant form of Kats etheric form looming over the others students. Also who was kat refering to when she said she dont want to see them again This is what zimmy saw and now the rest of the students see this now. gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1049 Now lets worry about what happens to the rest of the characters ...Either you commented on the wrong thread or you're trying to cheat to get cookies. I can't blame you, though. They're delicious. |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Dec 10, 2014 18:55:27 GMT
Does anyone notic that that looks like a giant form of Kats etheric form looming over the others students. Also who was kat refering to when she said she dont want to see them again This is what zimmy saw and now the rest of the students see this now. gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1049 Now lets worry about what happens to the rest of the characters ...Either you commented on the wrong thread or you're trying to cheat to get cookies. I can't blame you, though. They're delicious.... Says the man with the moon-sized cookie... |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 10, 2014 18:57:52 GMT
...Either you commented on the wrong thread or you're trying to cheat to get cookies. I can't blame you, though. They're delicious.... Says the man with the moon-sized cookie... It's like half a cookie currently: if this gets tied to Robot beliefs and the ether, THEN I'll accept my cookie |
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