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Post by todd on Sept 8, 2014 11:43:23 GMT
Perhaps I am wrong and the Bots will keep Paz in the ballroom if she tries to leave because they know they can use Paz to control Kat. But that is a very human approach and I don't know if the Bots would really think like that. I really think the Bots are obeying Kat's order to keep away from Paz and will continue obeying Kat's orders as long as it doesn't directly conflict with their plan. I am a little surprised that we don't see Kat conflicted about whether Paz should stay with her or go with Annie. It might be safer for Paz to be as far away from Zimmy and the experiment, and as close to the lifeboats, as possible. If the ban on harming the students is still in place, the robots can't use Paz as a hostage fo force Kat to comply. (Unless, at some moment, the Seraphs all start whirring for a moment and then announce that they have deleted that ban from their programming.) Given how turbulent the weather is at present, the lifeboats don't seem like that much of an option. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 8, 2014 11:47:53 GMT
I'm really disturbed by how easy it seems to be to shut off all the etheric powers! That just doesn't sit right with me  I really hope Tom explains what's up with those papers and that they're not as simple as they seem. I'm okay with it, personally. Reynardine could be prevented from taking a body that was tattooed with a specific symbol, and apparently from jumping beyond his room's boundary by having it painted on the walls. This doesn't seem out of line with that, to me. |
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Post by crater on Sept 8, 2014 12:31:35 GMT
Jack was right. You only had to listen
also imo it was lampshaded early on that as long as the programmer (magic caster) had an etheric computer near by they could do what ever they wanted to people
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
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Post by quoodle on Sept 8, 2014 14:58:11 GMT
Annie should use the blinker stone to create a signal - though I wonder what the symbol would be at this point. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=262 |
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Post by davidm on Sept 8, 2014 15:35:05 GMT
As far as shutting all students down... they are still students, with little experience in their abilities. Court would have contingency plans/programs for each of them in case they became trouble, just like for Rey. Students in turn haven't gotten to level where they can plan counter methods to the "shutdown".
Of course the court is behind this, the title of chapter proves it "The Torn Sea". Just as Coyote and friends are described as "The Forest", Bud and Lindsey are "The Sea". They are just too powerful as a pair. Rey and Surma and how court used seduction to split up the forest. Now the court is using a ship to seduce Lindsey, classic divide and conquer. And the court needs money to buy goods from outside world, so they sell the whole broadcast as a reality TV show "Survivor: The Bachelorette Love Boat". ;P
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Post by Elysium on Sept 8, 2014 16:06:30 GMT
Jack was right. You only had to listen And what were we supposed to do after listen to him while already on board and well in the atlantic ocean ? |
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Post by Fishy on Sept 8, 2014 16:14:02 GMT
Now that the prospect of these tags has been brought up, I have to wonder what effect they'd have if applied to Zimmy. I doubt it'd "cure" her, but perhaps prevent anything in her mind from getting out? Food for thought.
Oh. Worse thought. The robots are applying these tags to anyone who might hinder them. That means the natural suppressor, Gamma, may be tagged... I wonder what happens if she does. Bad things, probably.
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 8, 2014 17:04:33 GMT
Are you really thinking this thing he has with Jenny is serious?  Until demonstrated otherwise. Either way, in the given situation the concern should be more about her feelings than Jack's... Too true, unfortunately, and it seems odd that people like the Donlans, Eglamore, and Jones (who area all highly capable and responsible) should be on the staff of a school that would, if subjected to an inspection, be shut down or heavily reorganized in a hurry (except, of course, that the Court is apparently autonomous). How exactly do you imagine this? Mr. Pagett, M.P.> It came to my attention that the students at your school are not afraid to look up at cameras, dare to defend themselves from occasional bullying rather than run in tears to the local representative of big brother, mingle with unsavory elements, you train them to think for themselves and even bypass security measures. And this ugly modern art, which is simply ludicrous. Why shouldn't we for public good have your school nationalized and let the proper department reorganize it from the ground up? Headmaster Llanwellyn> (in ghoulishly disinterested tone) What modern art?... Oh, right. So sorry for this mix-up. H eadmaster Llanwellyn> (like talking to a little child) The metal cow on which you see fit to lean is not an avant-garde statue. It is in fact a highly autonomous robot. With welding lasers mounted in both eyes. Just like the metal cow standing behind you, for that matter. And while I realize that tastes differ, calling the laser cows "ugly" within their hearing range was not polite. ELSIE.113> Comment: Now that's what I call proper bullying. Mr. Pagett, M.P.> Eep! nameless fairy lurking around> (loses patience and uses an illusion to make Mr. Pagett's suit pink with bright green polka dots) Mr. Pagett, M.P.> Ahem. I see, glad-everything-is-in-order, duty calls, bye! (takes every imaginable effort toward never having an opportunity to visit this place ever after) |
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Post by aaroncampbell on Sept 8, 2014 17:04:45 GMT
A closer took at that symbol really does make it look like Annie, but I hope we get a chance to see a few more, perhaps when William goes to check on the others. I do expect that we'll get some sort of explanation as to how these papers work, but it will be nice to have some more examples to extrapolate from, for artwork if nothing else. It's like an example of another language. Tom's given us several already: the alchemical symbology, the etheric flare/smoke-signal symbols between the Court and the Forest, Enigmaron, the robotic programming language, the etheric programming language, the RoTD identification glyphs over each person, and now these paper things. (These above and beyond a wonderful little smattering of several real-world languages such as Polish, mathematics (specifically Kepler's laws of planetary motion), the alchemical symbology,a funny but fair poke at specialized jargon as heard by someone who is unfamiliar with it, and I'm sure some others I can't think of right at the moment.) Edit: I just realized this reads as though I thought alchemical symbology is not a "real-world" language. I know it is and that Tom did not invent it himself; that was a poor choice of words on my parrt. I meant more that the first group is more ... fantastical, not in normal daily use like the latter group, that's all. :-) |
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Post by sebastian on Sept 8, 2014 20:18:30 GMT
...the Court must be well aware that Zimmy's powers are to dangerous to toy with. That is the main reason I think this is another Court's "roleplay" scenario. They can't be so irresponsible to send a bunch of students on a cruis without adult supervision, especially with a ticking bomb like Zimmy. |
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Post by sebastian on Sept 8, 2014 20:20:57 GMT
I'm really disturbed by how easy it seems to be to shut off all the etheric powers! That just doesn't sit right with me I really hope Tom explains what's up with those papers and that they're not as simple as they seem. I think the etheric powers are dampened by the etheric siphons, not the papers. too much interference, or something. |
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Post by bykerhill on Sept 8, 2014 21:41:21 GMT
But in light of all the build-up about the religion Robot's been preaching and how increasingly sinister his sermons have been getting, I think that this is supposed to be the real-deal - the dark blossoming of that arc, the consequences of Robot's teachings. It wouldn't have as much significance if this was just a Court scheme with the robots only pretending to be fanatics. (I've probably said this already in earlier threads, but I think that Zimmy's nightmare world will be the real problem here, not the robot takeover. I wouldn't be surprised if the robot takeover was this chapter's version of the guy who unleashes some terrible ancient force, thinking that it can help him achieve his goals - and is promptly annihilated by it.) Incidentally, while we know what the ship's motivation is (and as I said, it must be a fool to think that Lindsey is going to overlook its treatment of her charges - would you endanger a group of children on a field trip to win the affections of their chaperone?), but what's the Seraph robots' reason for doing this? Apart, of course, from having become converted to Robot's "Creator Kat" proselytizing. IMHO we need to draw a sharp distinction between Robot's cult and the Seraphs, who are two separate groups with dramatically different worldviews. Just because the Seraphs have agreed there might be something to what Robot was saying does not mean they buy into his religion. It means all of a sudden he and his 'angel' are USEFUL to them. Robot and his cult are clearly (unhealthily) reverent of Kat. They hang onto her words and assign meaning to them (the whole 'it was worth it' thing). The Seraphs don't show a bit of reverence. When they find out that Kat has her ideas and abilities, their response is not reverence and worship, but assertation of ownership (carving their brand into her workshop and declaring she is 'under their protection'). Unlike the cult, they never refer to her as an angel. She is 'Creator Kat': a job title. Her role is to do a job for the Seraphs, whether she likes it or not. I think the cult is definitely going to be a problem long-term, but I don't think this is them. I think they'd be horrified at the arrogance of basically trying to force the hand of the divine. I think this is all the Seraphs, who do not give two figs for religions or angels, but DO believe Kat is a crazy genius who can deliver the goods for them. |
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Post by todd on Sept 8, 2014 22:07:17 GMT
That is the main reason I think this is another Court's "roleplay" scenario. They can't be so irresponsible to send a bunch of students on a cruis without adult supervision, especially with a ticking bomb like Zimmy. The big problem I have with this being just a scenario is that the "robot religion" thread, which is so important to this chapter, has been a major part of "Gunnerkrigg Court", and this is clearly a major step in its development. If this adventure turns out to be just the Court running things, with the Seraphs just playing the role of kidnappers rather than really trying to exploit Kat's abilities, it doesn't fit the thread so well. (The "ghost" in "Residential" whom the Court was blaming the disappearances on was never even mentioned in any of the previous chapters.) |
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lit
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Post by lit on Sept 8, 2014 23:37:52 GMT
Winsbury is being such a good guy these past few pages. I was a little surprised to see him of all people rushing to Annie's aid. He used to be such a jerk, right? I know he's chilled out a lot and we've gotten to see another side of him, especially in Faraway Morning with Janet, and he and Kat must have built up some sort of rapport if she's comfortable sending him teasing messages via robot. But still. I guess this just sort of cements the change in this character that we've been given clues to all along. In this page, he's been delegated this role of making sure people are okay. That and the fact that he was the first one to run to Annie when she fell makes me wonder if he doesn't have some kind of healing ability. And oh gosh, I like his hair so much. (It goes up!) |
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 9, 2014 2:22:49 GMT
Winsbury is being such a good guy these past few pages. I was a little surprised to see him of all people rushing to Annie's aid. He used to be such a jerk, right? Janet made a new man of him. Using a custom derivative of the old good carrot-and-stick approach - "secret makeouts and hard elbow".  I know he's chilled out a lot and we've gotten to see another side of him, especially in Faraway Morning with Janet, and he and Kat must have built up some sort of rapport if she's comfortable sending him teasing messages via robot. Well, they did work together in "Residential"... |
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Post by fwip on Sept 9, 2014 2:38:31 GMT
I'm really disturbed by how easy it seems to be to shut off all the etheric powers! That just doesn't sit right with me I really hope Tom explains what's up with those papers and that they're not as simple as they seem. I think the etheric powers are dampened by the etheric siphons, not the papers. too much interference, or something. The papers mark the students as targets for the siphons. The 'lightning bolts' were raw etheric energy traveling to the siphons a la power station. |
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Post by thedoctor on Sept 9, 2014 4:09:20 GMT
But in light of all the build-up about the religion Robot's been preaching and how increasingly sinister his sermons have been getting, I think that this is supposed to be the real-deal - the dark blossoming of that arc, the consequences of Robot's teachings. It wouldn't have as much significance if this was just a Court scheme with the robots only pretending to be fanatics. (I've probably said this already in earlier threads, but I think that Zimmy's nightmare world will be the real problem here, not the robot takeover. I wouldn't be surprised if the robot takeover was this chapter's version of the guy who unleashes some terrible ancient force, thinking that it can help him achieve his goals - and is promptly annihilated by it.) Incidentally, while we know what the ship's motivation is (and as I said, it must be a fool to think that Lindsey is going to overlook its treatment of her charges - would you endanger a group of children on a field trip to win the affections of their chaperone?), but what's the Seraph robots' reason for doing this? Apart, of course, from having become converted to Robot's "Creator Kat" proselytizing. IMHO we need to draw a sharp distinction between Robot's cult and the Seraphs, who are two separate groups with dramatically different worldviews. Just because the Seraphs have agreed there might be something to what Robot was saying does not mean they buy into his religion. It means all of a sudden he and his 'angel' are USEFUL to them. Robot and his cult are clearly (unhealthily) reverent of Kat. They hang onto her words and assign meaning to them (the whole 'it was worth it' thing). The Seraphs don't show a bit of reverence. When they find out that Kat has her ideas and abilities, their response is not reverence and worship, but assertation of ownership (carving their brand into her workshop and declaring she is 'under their protection'). Unlike the cult, they never refer to her as an angel. She is 'Creator Kat': a job title. Her role is to do a job for the Seraphs, whether she likes it or not. I think the cult is definitely going to be a problem long-term, but I don't think this is them. I think they'd be horrified at the arrogance of basically trying to force the hand of the divine. I think this is all the Seraphs, who do not give two figs for religions or angels, but DO believe Kat is a crazy genius who can deliver the goods for them. Thank you! We have seen no mention of Robot at all in this chapter; he and his group worship Kat and what she does; the Seraphs seek to harness it. Their "meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things," (see abuse of Zimmy's power) where Robot is all about praising Kat (rightly so, though not to the extent that he is doing it) and trying to encourage what she does. So this is where Annie finally gives Jack the Blinker, making their couple status kinda official? I'm guessing being shut down like this is going to have a boosting effect on her abilities afterwards, because right now she has to focus extra hard. It's like athletes go to training camps on high altitudes, where the air is thin, to get their bodies used to work a bit harder. Heehee, I'm still in favor of this ship...Also, if she gets MORE powerful after this?  |
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zirka
Full Member
I have become one with my anime and appear in backgrounds looking confused
Posts: 101
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Post by zirka on Sept 9, 2014 4:13:58 GMT
I think the etheric powers are dampened by the etheric siphons, not the papers. too much interference, or something. The papers mark the students as targets for the siphons. The 'lightning bolts' were raw etheric energy traveling to the siphons a la power station.Ah! Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. The papers being targets for the siphons makes the procedure complicated enough. Means that it can't be done so easily as to devalue our heroes's powers. And it draws a satisfying link with previous events. This is why I read the forums. Otherwise these stories would be too stressful with all their twists and turns. |
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 9, 2014 7:38:34 GMT
I think the etheric powers are dampened by the etheric siphons, not the papers. too much interference, or something. The papers mark the students as targets for the siphons. The 'lightning bolts' were raw etheric energy traveling to the siphons a la power station. Doesn't make sense. Syphons are here to create ether-depleted environment for "subjact Zeta" to shine in. Which is why they are around the ship, arranged in a grid. The closest possible hypothesis is that talisman could make students "bleed" and ether-suckers make it worse. |
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Post by todd on Sept 9, 2014 10:37:47 GMT
One other argument for this being a genuine robot meddling rather than just a "Residential"-style exercise of the Court's.
After the way that "Residential" backfired against the teachers, do you think they'd try something like this again - and on a much bigger scale that would probably anger the students even more once they learned it was all just a game?
(And I wonder if the Court even know about the "Creator Kat" business, since the bulk of it only took place when the robots were around and all the human characters off-panel. That could explain why the robots were able to carry out their takeover - nobody at the Court was paying enough attention to what was going on among them. They seemed to have simply dismissed the robots as comically inept mechanical staff - an underestimation that has led to trouble....)
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Post by crater on Sept 9, 2014 12:25:36 GMT
Jack was right. You only had to listen And what were we supposed to do after listen to him while already on board and well in the atlantic ocean ? they should had followed Jack then checked with the court to see if the ship had some sort of zimmy fail safe. Then at least Ann wouldn't have been the first person to be silenced |
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Post by November on Sept 9, 2014 20:26:01 GMT
Is there a possibility that Jack knew that something like this would happen? I mean, it wouldn't be weird to worry that things may go wrong with Zimmy on board. Jack, however, didn't just worry, he seemed absolutely certain that something would go wrong the instant he learned that Zimmy was on the ship.
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Post by Eversist on Sept 9, 2014 21:41:15 GMT
Is there a possibility that Jack knew that something like this would happen? I mean, it wouldn't be weird to worry that things may go wrong with Zimmy on board. Jack, however, didn't just worry, he seemed absolutely certain that something would go wrong the instant he learned that Zimmy was on the ship. I think he just freaked out because he knows first hand how dangerous Zimmy can be, especially when out of her element (har, no pun intended). This would be a cool curveball, though. |
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Post by todd on Sept 9, 2014 22:07:06 GMT
Jack and the others knew about Zimmy's abilities, but nobody knew (or knew enough) about the robots' agenda. That was the real problem. Without their meddling, Gamma would still be at Zimmy's side, blocking her abilities.
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Post by crater on Sept 9, 2014 23:23:40 GMT
Is there a possibility that Jack knew that something like this would happen? I mean, it wouldn't be weird to worry that things may go wrong with Zimmy on board. Jack, however, didn't just worry, he seemed absolutely certain that something would go wrong the instant he learned that Zimmy was on the ship. I made this post day one of the Zimmy reveal. atleast Jack isn't oblivious to the danger like everyone else. I love that face he makes in panel 7. He knows what must be done. you'd have to be crazy or really powerful to not be worried about Zimmy. Just being near her for a few moments can passively wipe you out of existence. |
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Post by sebastian on Sept 10, 2014 20:28:54 GMT
I think the etheric powers are dampened by the etheric siphons, not the papers. too much interference, or something. The papers mark the students as targets for the siphons. The 'lightning bolts' were raw etheric energy traveling to the siphons a la power station.Is it a fact or a theory? The paper block her fire elemental power, are her etheric abilities a part of her fire elemental heritage? (beside the linker stone does work, even if barely so that power is not blocked are her capacity to shot fireballs. |
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Post by sebastian on Sept 10, 2014 20:41:42 GMT
One other argument for this being a genuine robot meddling rather than just a "Residential"-style exercise of the Court's. After the way that "Residential" backfired against the teachers, do you think they'd try something like this again - and on a much bigger scale that would probably anger the students even more once they learned it was all just a game? What would be stupider, do what you said... or send a cruise ship full of kids - and at least one of which is a powerful reality-warper - in the middle of the ocean with no adult on board? To be clear is the "no adult supervision" that make think it could be all a kind of "simulation". |
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Post by todd on Sept 10, 2014 22:10:33 GMT
One other argument for this being a genuine robot meddling rather than just a "Residential"-style exercise of the Court's. After the way that "Residential" backfired against the teachers, do you think they'd try something like this again - and on a much bigger scale that would probably anger the students even more once they learned it was all just a game? What would be stupider, do what you said... or send a cruise ship full of kids - and at least one of which is a powerful reality-warper - in the middle of the ocean with no adult on board? To be clear is the "no adult supervision" that make think it could be all a kind of "simulation". And it's the "robot religion" element (a major part of the comic) that makes me think this is supposed to be the real thing. The Enigmarons and the "ghost" in "Residential" never appeared outside Chapters Ten and Twenty-four respectively. If Tom had planned this to be just another scenario, he'd have most likely made the antagonists another band of one-shots. |
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I really hope Tom explains what's up with those papers and that they're not as simple as they seem.
