[1339] You're a Guide, Too.

[Ophel]

Well, at least Nosferatu here is making some sort of start with his careful and concise explanation.

And I'll just be surprised by whoever is under the mask.

SPOILER: Click to show

...It's Hetty.

Edit: Heheh. I kinda like how Annie gets caught off-guard when asked on what authority she has asking questions like that. "Oops"

[goldenknots]

Not only is it a mask, but the neck that is showing is quite human, and pretty clean and healthy looking. I look forward to next week, this should be interesting.

[aaroncampbell]

I think it's Donald under that mask. The little hand-gesture to pull up records about Annie's etheric status settles it for me -- it's too much like how Donald controls the etheric computer:

• four-fingered flick
• two-fingered flick
• hand swirl
• hand pose
• index-finger point

I'm just kidding about this idea; there's no reason for Donny to play Nosferatu, and the timelines don't work unless you come up with some weird passing-down-the-role conspiracy. I just thought it was funny, and Donny & Anja are two of my favorite characters. I hope we get to see more of them again soon!

[Per]

If anyone wants an avatar:

[warrl]

Apr 11, 2014 16:16:40 GMT aaroncampbell said:

I'm just kidding about this idea; there's no reason for Donny to play Nosferatu, and the timelines don't work unless you come up with some weird passing-down-the-role conspiracy. I just thought it was funny, and Donny & Anja are two of my favorite characters. I hope we get to see more of them again soon!

Piers Anthony's "Incarnations of Immortality" series has a lot of passing-down-the-role stuff. Most of the Incarnations choose their successors, but there are at least two "normal" special cases: the incarnation of Time chooses his predecessor, and the incarnation of Death qualifies for the job by killing his predecessor. (There is an abnormal special case in the series, but describing it would be a bit of a spoiler.)

This is a seven-book series where each book, in addition to having its own plot, makes a significant contribution to an overall series plot, so read them in order.

Then there is an eighth book which is an afterthought - and in desperate need of more thought. Skip it.

[Eversist]

Apr 11, 2014 15:02:23 GMT Deepbluediver said:

Sometimes it seems to me like an awful lot of posters WANT the "every is in a costume and it's fake" theory to be accurate, and I'm not sure why.  In a world with things like Jones, Coyote, and Mort, is it really that hard to believe that you've got an organization of reality/perception warping creatures?

Cause really, explain to me how anyone who is remotely human can fit into this "costume": Chapter End

Even if it is all based on illusion, and the RotD is mostly living humanoids, it still doesn't really seem "fake" to me, given how much heavy-duty magic they are apparently tossing about just for the sake of appearances.

I don't want it to be true, it's just with the information presented right at this instant, it seems likely.

I think everything is an illusion since this probably isn't even a physical plane anyway, so it's all conjecture and interpretation to begin with.

We're just having a bit of fun. There's nothing wrong with being wrong.

[keef]

Apr 11, 2014 7:08:47 GMT Nepycros said:

Name your candidates now!

Anthony?
Jones?
Coyooooote?

Apr 11, 2014 9:11:49 GMT marv said:

It's Jeanne. Called it

Apr 11, 2014 11:47:41 GMT Toloc said:

Other possibilities that are more or less plausible I think would be

• Dan R Schiff
  • That guy Renard killed (had to look that one up)
• Jeanne's boyfriend
  • I guess we would see his green neck then (and I think he is bound to the bottom of the river by the Device, but that's speculation)

But good speculation...

Mortimer himself

• that would be quite a mind screw

Apr 11, 2014 16:16:40 GMT aaroncampbell said:

I think it's Donald

Hair colour

Apr 11, 2014 8:35:01 GMT Angry Individual said:

Also I bet its someone we've never seen before.

Yeah, probably.

[Sky Schemer]

Apr 11, 2014 17:35:45 GMT keef said:

Apr 11, 2014 7:08:47 GMT Nepycros said:

Name your candidates now!

Anthony?
Jones?
Coyooooote?

...

Apr 11, 2014 8:35:01 GMT Angry Individual said:

Also I bet its someone we've never seen before.

Yeah, probably.

Jimmy Hoffa.

No, wait! Tom's a Brit. So, Sir Arthur Coningham.

[King Mir]

An interesting thing on this page is that it's the antimony symbol that makes her a Guide. The last time the symbols came up it wasn't made obvious. She's been carrying that symbology since her mother gave her her necklace, and her mother has strong connections to the symbol too. Was her mother a Guide too? Could be, given how friendly she was with them. Then again, Tom has said guides are generally immortal. What about her grandfather, Mr. Stibnite? It seems to be a separate thing from her being part elemental, which is represented by the crown, but possibly a family tradition too.

[kralex]

Alright then, put me down for "Mort gets to make big-ass difference, proves is job was more important than anyone could have imagined."

He's been around a long time. No way he goes quietly.

[keef]

Apr 11, 2014 18:08:25 GMT King Mir said:

An interesting thing on this page is that it's the antimony symbol that makes her a Guide. The last time the symbols came up it wasn't made obvious. She's been carrying that symbology since her mother gave her her necklace, and her mother has strong connections to the symbol too. Was her mother a Guide too? Could be, given how friendly she was with them. Then again, Tom has said guides are generally immortal. What about her grandfather, Mr. Stibnite? It seems to be a separate thing from her being part elemental, which is represented by the crown, but possibly a family tradition too.

I'm not sure this is the meaning of the antimony symbol.

Every fire-elemental that has a child will die as soon as the child takes over the elemental's "flame". As there is nothing for the other guides to take in to the ether, the child will always be the guide for the parent.
So a family tradition out of necessity.
So then the crown symbol (fire elemental) would already make her a guide.
Immortality in this sense is the immortality of the flame. The antimony symbol could then be linked to this particular lineage of fire-elementals.

Speculation of course, and not sure, even less sure about my English 

[Intelligence]

I honestly thought his face was warping or melting at first.

[King Mir]

Apr 11, 2014 19:30:10 GMT keef said:

Apr 11, 2014 18:08:25 GMT King Mir said:

An interesting thing on this page is that it's the antimony symbol that makes her a Guide. The last time the symbols came up it wasn't made obvious. She's been carrying that symbology since her mother gave her her necklace, and her mother has strong connections to the symbol too. Was her mother a Guide too? Could be, given how friendly she was with them. Then again, Tom has said guides are generally immortal. What about her grandfather, Mr. Stibnite? It seems to be a separate thing from her being part elemental, which is represented by the crown, but possibly a family tradition too.

I'm not sure this is the meaning of the antimony symbol.

Every fire-elemental that has a child will die as soon as the child takes over the elemental's "flame". As there is nothing for the other guides to take in to the ether, the child will always be the guide for the parent.
So a family tradition out of necessity.
So then the crown symbol (fire elemental) would already make her a guide.
Immortality in this sense is the immortality of the flame. The antimony symbol could then be linked to this particular lineage of fire-elementals.

Speculation of course, and not sure, even less sure about my English 

But that's the problem. The "fire spike" that emerged when Annie found out she was an elemental is not the one that is prominent in panel 4. The antimony symbol is.

It is reasonable to guess that I the fire spike is a general fire elemental symbol. Certainly this page parallels the fire spike with man's Creator, matching how this page shows Coyote's glass eyed men are of a different origin than man. But if here being part fire elemental had to do with her being a Guide, I'd the fire spike to be more prominent here.

[keef]

Apr 11, 2014 20:07:53 GMT King Mir said:

But that's the problem. The "fire spike" that emerged when Annie found out she was an elemental is not the one that is prominent in panel 4. The antimony symbol is.

You are right, and it does not fit with my theory. But what do you make of the idea that all (fire) elementals are always guides to their (elemental) parent?

[Gulby]

I agree with you, Keef, for that part. Out of necessity, the only one who could guide the parent fire elemental is the child, because of the transmission of the flame (or the soul, as I like to think of it).

[Shire]

So... does it look like Nossie's wearing a mask because he's wearing a mask, or does it look that way because Annie's perspective of the ROTD is shifting?

Apr 11, 2014 16:26:29 GMT Per said:

If anyone wants an avatar:

And thanks!

[ctso74]

Apr 11, 2014 20:45:31 GMT keef said:

Apr 11, 2014 20:07:53 GMT King Mir said:

But that's the problem. The "fire spike" that emerged when Annie found out she was an elemental is not the one that is prominent in panel 4. The antimony symbol is.

You are right, and it does not fit with my theory. But what do you make of the idea that all (fire) elementals are always guides to their (elemental) parent?

That's what I thought, that fire elementals guide their parents. Though, what I think is often wrong, so...
What kind of psychopomp would full fire elementals have? The eagle that ate Prometheus's liver? What kind of mythology would they even have?

Finally realized why that final panel seemed freaky, though. Sofia Vergara is under the mask. *shudder* That gif.

[baf]

Serious guess as to who it is under the mask: Diego.

I'm assuming that anyone who works for ROTD will be dead. There are only a few known dead characters who Annie would recognize, and Diego would have a personal stake in any attempt to free Jeanne.

[fwip]

I think that one point that everyone's pretty much missing is that taking off the mask may be more symbolic than anything else. This is the Ether, and so there's probably no physical mask. Probably the mask didn't even exist until Nosferatu decided unmasking himself would be a good idea.

[judgedeadd]

I'm guessing that any and all "afterlives" in the GKC-verse are, in fact, just the RotD, except with differently-looking costumes. The RotD work as "afterlife providers" essentially.

Earlier on, it's been stated (Coyote) that the fate of all the dead people in the setting is to dissipate into nothingness and become one with the Ether, even if some people will experience some kind of afterlife first.

So, in essence, all religions in this setting are merely various forms of window dressing for the metaphysical, that are thought up by humans.

[King Mir]

Apr 12, 2014 4:45:30 GMT judgedeadd said:

I'm guessing that any and all "afterlives" in the GKC-verse are, in fact, just the RotD, except with differently-looking costumes. The RotD work as "afterlife providers" essentially.

Earlier on, it's been stated (Coyote) that the fate of all the dead people in the setting is to dissipate into nothingness and become one with the Ether, even if some people will experience some kind of afterlife first.

So, in essence, all religions in this setting are merely various forms of window dressing for the metaphysical, that are thought up by humans.

It doesn't follow that RoTD is the only afterlife provider. The RoTD seems to be a rather British organization of ghosts. But that's not the only afterlife that mankind has conceived. And as mythical psychopomps in general take people to specific afterlives, I expect that to the the case in Tom's work, except that said afterlives are never eternal.

[arf]

I am reminded me of that surreal and hilarious scene in Babylon 5 where the station is dabbling in merchandising as a revenue stream. Ivanova does a slow freak-out when she enters a store to find everyone trying on various alien rubber masks.

Definitely *not* Donald, btw. Donald knows Annie too well to wonder who she is.

[Pig_catapult]

If the antimony symbol is the universal one for Guides, I am sorely disappointed in Surma's (and her mother's) choice in baby names.

[Nepycros]

Let's bear in mind that the Antimony symbol is what sealed Renardine. If the Guides are capable of confining etheric foxes in objects and preventing it from jumping out again (like the no-eye symbol), then they have far more jurisdiction than they'd like us to believe.

[csj]

Apr 11, 2014 9:08:37 GMT melkior said:

Don't we all wear a mask, for one reason or another?

Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever
And we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone
Some are satin some are steel; some are silk and some are leather
They're the faces of the stranger but we love to try them on

[Gulby]

If I'm not mistaken, the antimony sign sealed Reynardine powers only because it is a sign of ownership. The plush toy is the property of Antimony, hence Rey has to ask for permission.

[aaroncampbell]

Apr 11, 2014 16:56:11 GMT warrl said:

Apr 11, 2014 16:16:40 GMT aaroncampbell said:

I'm just kidding about this idea; there's no reason for Donny to play Nosferatu, and the timelines don't work unless you come up with some weird passing-down-the-role conspiracy. I just thought it was funny, and Donny & Anja are two of my favorite characters. I hope we get to see more of them again soon!

Piers Anthony's "Incarnations of Immortality" series has a lot of passing-down-the-role stuff. Most of the Incarnations choose their successors, but there are at least two "normal" special cases: the incarnation of Time chooses his predecessor, and the incarnation of Death qualifies for the job by killing his predecessor. (There is an abnormal special case in the series, but describing it would be a bit of a spoiler.)

This is a seven-book series where each book, in addition to having its own plot, makes a significant contribution to an overall series plot, so read them in order.

Then there is an eighth book which is an afterthought - and in desperate need of more thought. Skip it.

Good call -- a very well-written series! I read them in middle school, which was perhaps slightly young given some of the subjects covered, but that's a judgment call.

I agree, the last book was so poorly done I never finished it. A shame and a frustration, really. If he had put as much thought into that one as into the opposite, it would have really wrapped up the series nicely. Instead, I just tend to think of it as not having been written from that perspective, which give multiple ways of considering the entire arrangement. (Oy, it's hard to write about the stories without spoiling anything!) One thing I can say -- you can read them in any order; they're written as complete stories unto themselves, but still work perfectly together as a cohesive whole in a unique and enjoyable way.

[warrl]

Apr 14, 2014 5:48:27 GMT Nepycros said:

Let's bear in mind that the Antimony symbol is what sealed Renardine. If the Guides are capable of confining etheric foxes in objects and preventing it from jumping out again (like the no-eye symbol), then they have far more jurisdiction than they'd like us to believe.

It's what sealed Reynardine *to Antimony*. Or maybe only a sign that he is sealed to her. Hetty, bound to someone else, had a different symbol.

No indication that the involvement of a psychopomp is required, or even beneficial.