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Post by smurfton on Mar 31, 2014 17:12:01 GMT
Turns out someone else has asked whether psychopomps are immortal. The answer is yes. hereAlso, on jurisdictions: hereThat Word of Tom section of the Wiki is useful. Also, thanks, I feel very welcomed. |
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Post by philman on Mar 31, 2014 17:59:31 GMT
In the last panel, Kat looks really terrified. I think that is because this is the psychopomp she 'believes' in (considering her regional heritage or whatever) and thus this the one which will eventually take her to the ether. I don't know, her mum is Spanish and her dad is Scottish, ankou is supposed to be from brittany, which is not that close to either. I think a giant skeleton with a scythe is scary in most cultures... EDIT: hey RobesGuy! This is how you dress to look scary! |
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Post by Lightice on Mar 31, 2014 18:46:58 GMT
Wikipedia and this site seem to agree it's a cultural thing, my old Dutch encyclopaedia has no clue. Well, I was thinking about how it works in the comic, rather than real life mythologies. We do know that people from the same culture and even same family can be fetched by entirely different psychopomps, so it's not a wholesale answer to the question. In the last panel, Kat looks really terrified. I think that is because this is the psychopomp she 'believes' in (considering her regional heritage or whatever) and thus this the one which will eventually take her to the ether. She was pretty freaked out by Ketrak, too, but I doubt that the insect guide will lay a claim on her spirit. I'm pretty sure that it's just the huge skeleton dude with a scythe appearing out of nowhere that provoked her reaction. |
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Post by Deepbluediver on Mar 31, 2014 19:03:27 GMT
Annie does not work want to work for as a guide because they she'd have to pick some alternate creepy-looking/otherwordly form, like all the rest, and the story can't proceed without a cute protagonist, oh heaven's no!
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Post by Intelligence on Mar 31, 2014 19:42:25 GMT
In the last panel, Kat looks really terrified. I think that is because this is the psychopomp she 'believes' in (considering her regional heritage or whatever) and thus this the one which will eventually take her to the ether. I don't know, her mum is Spanish and her dad is Scottish, ankou is supposed to be from brittany, which is not that close to either. I think a giant skeleton with a scythe is scary in most cultures... EDIT: hey RobesGuy! This is how you dress to look scary! Wait, I thought her mother was also Scottish?  |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 31, 2014 19:44:20 GMT
Stupid Ankou! I-it's not like I like you or anything! One of god's own prototypes- a high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too kawaii to live, too sugoi to die. |
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Post by AluK on Mar 31, 2014 20:23:13 GMT
I don't know, her mum is Spanish and her dad is Scottish, ankou is supposed to be from brittany, which is not that close to either. I think a giant skeleton with a scythe is scary in most cultures... EDIT: hey RobesGuy! This is how you dress to look scary! Wait, I thought her mother was also Scottish? Going by her name (Anja), the fact that she calls Katherina Katja, her accent in the flashbacks and the fact the she's Romani, she's most probably eastern european, probably from a slavic country. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 31, 2014 20:31:41 GMT
I think with the case of the burned boy, Annie merely acted as an impartial outside arbiter before things escalated to the "legal" side. The idea is interesting though; even then she was acting as a medium of sorts (though between psychopomps rather than between Court and Forest). I disagree. The psychopomps knew how to resolve the conflict between them, and were prepared to do so. Annie had no part in that. She acted as a medium between them and the burned boy. Or, one could say, as an assistant to both of them. (She has a lot of experience as an assistant psychopomp. Although I don't know if she thinks of it that way. |
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Post by csj on Mar 31, 2014 21:39:27 GMT
Wait, I thought her mother was also Scottish? Going by her name (Anja), the fact that she calls Katherina Katja, her accent in the flashbacks and the fact the she's Romani, she's most probably eastern european, probably from a slavic country. Based on what Tom has stated, I'm almost certain that Anja is Gitano, which are a community of Romani on the Iberian Peninsula. |
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Post by keef on Mar 31, 2014 22:06:11 GMT
I think that today's page gives us enough information to say that our theories about the tradition of new-Ankou-every-year are probably not the case in the Gunnerverse. Sad but true. Although they might need a new one if he walks in to Jeanne Personally I hope and expect Death of Discworld. I think Susan would be a better choice. Susan would be great, although I had the impression she didn't really like the job. I have killed some rodents over the years, so it might even be the Grim Squeaker. Wikipedia and this site seem to agree it's a cultural thing, my old Dutch encyclopaedia has no clue. Well, I was thinking about how it works in the comic, rather than real life mythologies. We do know that people from the same culture and even same family can be fetched by entirely different psychopomps, so it's not a wholesale answer to the question. Damn I forgot it's a comic. Maybe I take things to serious  . But as smurfton reminded us there is word of Tom. |
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Post by aaroncampbell on Mar 31, 2014 22:25:06 GMT
I think with the case of the burned boy, Annie merely acted as an impartial outside arbiter before things escalated to the "legal" side. The idea is interesting though; even then she was acting as a medium of sorts (though between psychopomps rather than between Court and Forest). I disagree. The psychopomps knew how to resolve the conflict between them, and were prepared to do so. Annie had no part in that. She acted as a medium between them and the burned boy. Or, one could say, as an assistant to both of them. (She has a lot of experience as an assistant psychopomp. Although I don't know if she thinks of it that way. Hmm, do you think they were prepared to resolve the conflict? They did know the "legal" options, and I wish Annie hadn't interrupted the Moddey Dhoo's explanation of the contractions of location and ownership, but what could they have done? On that page Moddey says the boy is allowed to make a choice, but after Annie helps him he tells the boy that "you must choose which one of us will take yeh into the aether." It's a little ambiguous; you could read it as " you must choose" or "you must choose". Either way, it was Annie's presence and interaction with the boy (Martin, by the way) which changes the issue from choice being an option to choice being a requirement. So perhaps you're right, arbiter may not have been quite the right word. Her presence acted as a catalyst, pun not intended, in that it brought Martin out of a fluctuating in-between state and into a reaction which lead to a steady resolved state. She didn't help him decide between the two psychopomp claimants at all, but she still did act as a mediator between him and the etheric world itself. So maybe not arbiter, but still mediator and precursors to her current role as medium. |
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zirka
Full Member
I have become one with my anime and appear in backgrounds looking confused
Posts: 101
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Post by zirka on Apr 1, 2014 0:21:05 GMT
Personally I hope and expect Death of Discworld. But I'm not in a hurry. Ooh, Ooh! Are we picking psyhopomps? I would like to take this opportunity to state as a public record in case of my death ever being a matter of dispute - That I hope for and expect Death of The Endless. I'm not in any hurry either. Thank You. |
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Post by AluK on Apr 1, 2014 0:38:28 GMT
Based on what Tom has stated, I'm almost certain that Anja is Gitano, which are a community of Romani on the Iberian Peninsula. Not necessarily. Tom stated that her family is from Spain. She might be ethnically Gitano but, as he himself stated, they moved around a lot. |
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Post by arf on Apr 1, 2014 4:47:21 GMT
In the last panel, Kat looks really terrified. I think that is because this is the psychopomp she 'believes' in (considering her regional heritage or whatever) and thus this the one which will eventually take her to the ether. Also, she turned around ready to give robe guy another scolding, and was confronted with... Ketrak's colleague. They're still in the rotd archives. Action has just picked up from where it left off last chapter. We are now seeing the archives as something a little more imposing. I wonder if Kat is seeing the difference? |
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Post by descoladavirus on Apr 1, 2014 22:09:34 GMT
Are psychopomps necessarily immortal, ie, does becoming one change whether you can site of old age, even if only retroactively? Could become a way for Annie and Kat to stay together (at least at first) if the Kat is a god theory is right. Just a thought. EDIT: The little chapter picture thing is probably smoke, not rubble. \lurk Welcome to the Realm Of The Forum (ROTF), Smurfton. re: psychopomp immortality. Apart from Death by Jeanning, we discovered that the role of young Ankou here is traditionally taken on by the last soul to die each year (presumably their first task is to move the previous Ankou on). He is associated with parishes in Breton, France. I have no idea why he came for young Mortimer (other than these being busy times). I suspect it's a bit random. After all, what's an Amerindian entity like Muut doing knocking around an English hospital? ... Oh, wait a minute. What other Amerindian entity do we know? I wonder if the causer of death has a bearing on which psychopomp turns up? Wasn't Muut there for the Shadowman James killed on the bridge? In which case, something created by an AmerInd deity gets an AmerInd psychopomp. In the last panel, Kat looks really terrified. I think that is because this is the psychopomp she 'believes' in (considering her regional heritage or whatever) and thus this the one which will eventually take her to the ether. Speculation not based in fact. I think seeing something etheric that hasn't been altered by her perception of it is just terrifying. Who wouldn't freak out at a 12 foot tall scythe wielding grim reaper with a Nize Hat. I don't know, her mum is Spanish and her dad is Scottish, ankou is supposed to be from brittany, which is not that close to either. I think a giant skeleton with a scythe is scary in most cultures... EDIT: hey RobesGuy! This is how you dress to look scary! Wait, I thought her mother was also Scottish? Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't averse** to one night stands. I'm sure her ancestry is a motley mix of where ever her ancestors went. *No offense meant to any Romani or their descendants who may be reading this. **I misspelled a word. Luckily autocorrect corrected it...with a word that means something different. Though I must say smart women who look like Anja probably don't have any adverse effects on the desire for a one night stand. |
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Post by Per on Apr 1, 2014 22:56:55 GMT
Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't adverse to one night stands. ... Is that what it says on their Wikipedia page? |
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Post by fwip on Apr 2, 2014 2:47:02 GMT
Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't adverse to one night stands. some of them traveled* a lot and probably weren't* averse to one night stands, given that at the time period, they were viewed as beggars or street performers by many, at least according to my understanding. |
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Post by goldenknots on Apr 2, 2014 3:13:43 GMT
Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't adverse to one night stands. I'm sure her ancestry is a motley mix of where ever her ancestors went. *No offense meant to any Romani or their descendants who may be reading this. I'm pretty sure you meant "averse". Words have meanings. |
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Post by fwip on Apr 2, 2014 3:30:18 GMT
Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't adverse to one night stands. I'm sure her ancestry is a motley mix of where ever her ancestors went. *No offense meant to any Romani or their descendants who may be reading this. I'm pretty sure you meant "averse". Words have meanings. *quickly edits his post to correct the same mistake before someone notices* |
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Post by descoladavirus on Apr 2, 2014 5:33:28 GMT
Well, she is of romani/gypsy heritage. They travel a lot and aren't adverse to one night stands. I'm sure her ancestry is a motley mix of where ever her ancestors went. *No offense meant to any Romani or their descendants who may be reading this. I'm pretty sure you meant "averse". Words have meanings. Indeed I did, and if my computer could tell which meaning I was going for when I blindly flail at the keyboard because I just woke up I'd be extraordinarily happy with it. |
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Post by warrl on Apr 2, 2014 14:20:45 GMT
and if my computer could tell which meaning I was going for when I blindly flail at the keyboard because I just woke up I'd be extraordinarily happy with it. There's a reason why the most popular website discussing autocorrect begins with a swear word. |
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Post by Georgie L on Apr 2, 2014 22:07:23 GMT
re: psychopomp immortality. Apart from Death by Jeanning, we discovered that the role of young Ankou here is traditionally taken on by the last soul to die each year (presumably their first task is to move the previous Ankou on). He is associated with parishes in Breton, France. I have no idea why he came for young Mortimer (other than these being busy times). I suspect it's a bit random. After all, what's an Amerindian entity like Muut doing knocking around an English hospital? I think that today's page gives us enough information to say that our theories about the tradition of new-Ankou-every-year are probably not the case in the Gunnerverse. He seems to be the same Ankou who knew Annie as a child, and his antiquated style of speech matches that of Ankou when Mort died 70+ years ago. Why does that mean he's not a new Ankou every year? The job could come with the entire knowledge and memory of past Ankous, plenty of supernatural creatures pass on the legacy in such a way. The new bearer becomes Ankou, history, behaviour and all. |
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. But as 
