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Post by sniperserpent on Mar 3, 2014 22:49:36 GMT
This sort of feels like its trying to shoo out the clowns, in that Mort was always sort of a more comedic character, who very rarely had any sort of significance on the plot, but now that things seem to be growing a bit more serious, and as we see the rather dark Jeanne plot is related to him through the ghost angle this chapter was about, he seems a tad out of place. Did you actually read this comic? I thought you were here only to show your "mild annoyance". No, Mort is not comic relief, but an important character in this story. You can't explain the whole fucking world with tvtropes. Apart from that welcome the the forum. I started the comic a month ago, there about. I just had the bad luck to show up on a day where a topic of contention was the current hot topic. And yeah, I was oversimplifying things a bit, but his primary roll has been a more comical role than serious in general. |
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Post by legion on Mar 3, 2014 23:34:18 GMT
To defend sniperserpent, as a long time reader I did thought it could be a "shoo out the clowns" moment (which tvtropes didn't invent you know, they describe things that happen in fiction), though after further thinking I don't believe Tom would just evacuate a character just to make the comic more serious/sad, but I can see where a new reader can come from on this, so there's no need to be rude to her.
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Post by keef on Mar 3, 2014 23:40:50 GMT
Wednesday's page: Annie, Kat and Mort leaving the library through the eyes of the Robesguy. I'm still hoping for the Goddess. Wait... if the appearance of the ROTD matches beliefs, attitudes and expectations, then maybe the bonus page wasn't what Annie sees... but what WE see. Or, perhaps more accurately, what Tom sees and has drawn for us. Getting dangerously meta, though. Something like this. He is the author, and he can show what he wants to show at any time. Wow, freedom of expression on the internet.. |
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Post by sniperserpent on Mar 3, 2014 23:41:26 GMT
I think previous to this, the most serious moment Mort has been in is when Annie thought that giving her the blinker stone was him laying claim to her, which while pretty serious, was sort of his only scene not played for laughs. He is a bedsheet ghost, it can be hard to take them seriously. And while Mort's death (?) would of course more than be getting serious emotional effect off a comic character, this is obviously a significant part of Annie's life, as she is exploring a part of her she is unfamiliar and uncomfortable within the whole afterlife guide deal.
I didn't mean to imply mort was being casually discarded.
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Post by keef on Mar 3, 2014 23:47:11 GMT
To defend sniperserpent, as a long time reader I did thought it could be a "shoo out the clowns" moment (which tvtropes didn't invent you know, they describe things that happen in fiction), though after further thinking I don't believe Tom would just evacuate a character just to make the comic more serious/sad, but I can see where a new reader can come from on this, so there's no need to be rude to her. You have a point, so sorry sniperserpent. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 4, 2014 4:02:44 GMT
I can't imagine how Tom can possibly unpredictably twist this, but believe in his ability to do so.  Also, Mort looks somewhere between "that's how dudes say bye!" and "will it blend?" And now, the best guestbook comments! ET
Tom this is not okay
3 Mar 2014 | 12:01 AM
Jupe
Good night sweet ghost, and flights of robotic tucans sing thee to thy rest.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:06 AM
Rosebud
I'm hoping this is a trick title.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:10 AM
Qwerty
This is the first chapter with a punctuation mark at the end!
3 Mar 2014 | 1:58 AM
jodie
the saddest face
3 Mar 2014 | 2:18 AM
Donteatacowman
BUT MORT AND ANNIE HAVE TO GET MARRIED AND HAVE 10 MILLION GHOST-FIRE BABIES ;A;
3 Mar 2014 | 3:34 AM
Lauren
Do you hear that? That was the sound of a thousand hearts breaking.
3 Mar 2014 | 4:33 AM
QueenKiwi
The saddest chapter cover page. THE SADDEST.
3 Mar 2014 | 5:41 AM
irdburns
Mort, Master of Inappropriate Fun Time
3 Mar 2014 | 7:34 AM
NOOOOOO
Mort, we love you! Please don't go!
3 Mar 2014 | 7:36 AM
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Post by Señor Goose on Mar 4, 2014 4:44:52 GMT
I can't imagine how Tom can possibly unpredictably twist this, but believe in his ability to do so. Also, Mort looks somewhere between "that's how dudes say bye!" and "will it blend?" And now, the best guestbook comments! ET
Tom this is not okay
3 Mar 2014 | 12:01 AM
Jupe
Good night sweet ghost, and flights of robotic tucans sing thee to thy rest.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:06 AM
Rosebud
I'm hoping this is a trick title.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:10 AM
Qwerty
This is the first chapter with a punctuation mark at the end!
3 Mar 2014 | 1:58 AM
jodie
the saddest face
3 Mar 2014 | 2:18 AM
Donteatacowman
BUT MORT AND ANNIE HAVE TO GET MARRIED AND HAVE 10 MILLION GHOST-FIRE BABIES ;A;
3 Mar 2014 | 3:34 AM
Lauren
Do you hear that? That was the sound of a thousand hearts breaking.
3 Mar 2014 | 4:33 AM
QueenKiwi
The saddest chapter cover page. THE SADDEST.
3 Mar 2014 | 5:41 AM
irdburns
Mort, Master of Inappropriate Fun Time
3 Mar 2014 | 7:34 AM
NOOOOOO
Mort, we love you! Please don't go!
3 Mar 2014 | 7:36 AM
The comment section is the New Mexico of this fandom. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 4, 2014 5:27:08 GMT
Jupe Good night sweet ghost, and flights of robotic tucans sing thee to thy rest. 3 Mar 2014 | 12:06 AM  |
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 4, 2014 7:14:30 GMT
I can't imagine how Tom can possibly unpredictably twist this, but believe in his ability to do so. Also, Mort looks somewhere between "that's how dudes say bye!" and "will it blend?" And now, the best guestbook comments! ET
Tom this is not okay
3 Mar 2014 | 12:01 AM
Jupe
Good night sweet ghost, and flights of robotic tucans sing thee to thy rest.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:06 AM
Rosebud
I'm hoping this is a trick title.
3 Mar 2014 | 12:10 AM
Qwerty
This is the first chapter with a punctuation mark at the end!
3 Mar 2014 | 1:58 AM
jodie
the saddest face
3 Mar 2014 | 2:18 AM
Donteatacowman
BUT MORT AND ANNIE HAVE TO GET MARRIED AND HAVE 10 MILLION GHOST-FIRE BABIES ;A;
3 Mar 2014 | 3:34 AM
Lauren
Do you hear that? That was the sound of a thousand hearts breaking.
3 Mar 2014 | 4:33 AM
QueenKiwi
The saddest chapter cover page. THE SADDEST.
3 Mar 2014 | 5:41 AM
irdburns
Mort, Master of Inappropriate Fun Time
3 Mar 2014 | 7:34 AM
NOOOOOO
Mort, we love you! Please don't go!
3 Mar 2014 | 7:36 AM
The comment section is the New Mexico of this fandom. ...Wait, what? |
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 4, 2014 7:20:14 GMT
I think previous to this, the most serious moment Mort has been in is when Annie thought that giving her the blinker stone was him laying claim to her, which while pretty serious, was sort of his only scene not played for laughs. He is a bedsheet ghost, it can be hard to take them seriously. And while Mort's death (?) would of course more than be getting serious emotional effect off a comic character, this is obviously a significant part of Annie's life, as she is exploring a part of her she is unfamiliar and uncomfortable within the whole afterlife guide deal. I didn't mean to imply mort was being casually discarded. That is a fair assessment; this is certainly his most serious involvement to date. However I feel that, seeing as he is a ghost and Annie is a guide FOR ghosts, it was kind of inevitable. I would almost be willing to say that Tom intended to reach this point even when he introduced Mort. Also, this comic started off pretty serious; weird yes, but not silly; our heroine's mother is dead, and her father doesn't talk to her any more. I even Mort's character hasn't changed that a whole lot; I don't think the comic needs to be turned more serious. So if Tom is "shooing off a clown," I feel like it was intended for a while. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 4, 2014 9:17:11 GMT
To defend sniperserpent, as a long time reader I did thought it could be a "shoo out the clowns" moment (which tvtropes didn't invent you know, they describe things that happen in fiction), though after further thinking I don't believe Tom would just evacuate a character just to make the comic more serious/sad, but I can see where a new reader can come from on this, so there's no need to be rude to her. I have to agree that while Mort has had a role to play in the story, nevertheless he has always been more or less a comical character. I do recall other comical characters in stories who have had something important to give to it, in fact I think they almost always have and it is merely bad writing to leave them only a laughing stock. That said, please, people, stop with those tvtropes! I did not know this source of non-knowledge even exists, but it is mighty annoying that this great piece of literature is being interpreted through a book of televised clichés. Edit: it appears that the "Tom said something" affair is closed then? maybe it was about the time that we too stop talking about what was never anything. |
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Post by keef on Mar 4, 2014 11:09:23 GMT
That said, please, people, stop with those tvtropes! I did not know this source of non-knowledge even exists, but it is mighty annoying that this great piece of literature is being interpreted through a book of televised clichés. That's what I should have said. I was mildly anoyed  I try to ignore topics like that. The less people post in them, the sooner they sink to the bottom, where they belong. I think the coming chapter is going to be great, and its a shame all the bright people on this forum waste there time on a non-issue. |
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Post by thedoctor on Mar 4, 2014 11:20:12 GMT
To defend sniperserpent, as a long time reader I did thought it could be a "shoo out the clowns" moment (which tvtropes didn't invent you know, they describe things that happen in fiction), though after further thinking I don't believe Tom would just evacuate a character just to make the comic more serious/sad, but I can see where a new reader can come from on this, so there's no need to be rude to her. I have to agree that while Mort has had a role to play in the story, nevertheless he has always been more or less a comical character. I do recall other comical characters in stories who have had something important to give to it, in fact I think they almost always have and it is merely bad writing to leave them only a laughing stock. That said, please, people, stop with those tvtropes! I did not know this source of non-knowledge even exists, but it is mighty annoying that this great piece of literature is being interpreted through a book of televised clichés. Edit: it appears that the "Tom said something" affair is closed then? maybe it was about the time that we too stop talking about what was never anything. Just f.y.i., tvtropes is actually a pretty nifty website. It now covers much more than just television; it also includes books, plays, movies, webcomics, and historical situations. The main sort of explanation page points out that using tropes is not a bad thing; everyone uses them, and needs to do so, or else very few people would actually understand the work. The website simply catalogs the tropes used on different pages, and is pretty spot-on accurate in describing them. That said, do not go there unless you want to spend a HUGE amount of time reading through its entries; it is both interesting and addictive-- it's like rickrolling, but you're trapped all day! |
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Post by keef on Mar 4, 2014 11:43:30 GMT
I agree it can be entertaining. The problem is people reducing art to a set of cliches, as zimmyzims puts it.
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Post by sidhekin on Mar 4, 2014 11:43:59 GMT
Yeah, I rather enjoy TVtropes. One should be careful when referring to it though. For two reasons:
1) While the explanation page for a trope can be useful for communicating your insights, they can easily come to be, and even more easily come to be seen as, a shaper of insights. Either makes it difficult to come up with any new insights. And that's too bad.
2) While it could be useful or entertaining to recognize a (variation on a) trope, that can in turn come to be, and even more easily come to be seen as, a value or quality judgement. The explanation pages themselves are often admirably clear on how tropes are pretty neutral (both good stories and bad stories use and abuse them), but references tend not to bother with that. This blurs the exchange of ideas: Was this reference brought up as (a poor) justification of a value judgement? Discussions soon go astray by then.
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eskhn
Full Member
You like 'em? Huh? You like 'em?
Posts: 167
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Post by eskhn on Mar 4, 2014 15:38:33 GMT
The comment section is the New Mexico of this fandom. Inhabited by meth dealers that some people like even though they're terrible people? I spent a while on TVTropes once, and thinking of everything in terms of tropes has terrible effects on how some people approach fiction, and even life. Plus, using Capital Letters to Shoehorn Tropes into a discussion (I Am Doing This Thing) is annoying, and there are better ways to discuss common themes in fiction. But don't just take my word for it... |
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Post by GK Sierra on Mar 4, 2014 15:52:41 GMT
Yeah, I rather enjoy TVtropes. One should be careful when referring to it though. For two reasons: 1) While the explanation page for a trope can be useful for communicating your insights, they can easily come to be, and even more easily come to be seen as, a shaper of insights. Either makes it difficult to come up with any new insights. And that's too bad. 2) While it could be useful or entertaining to recognize a (variation on a) trope, that can in turn come to be, and even more easily come to be seen as, a value or quality judgement. The explanation pages themselves are often admirably clear on how tropes are pretty neutral (both good stories and bad stories use and abuse them), but references tend not to bother with that. This blurs the exchange of ideas: Was this reference brought up as (a poor) justification of a value judgement? Discussions soon go astray by then. Although I think TV tropes can be pretty useful, they can easily be overused. Tom goes one step further and eschews it as a "made up language".
Q: Gunnerkrigg Court is very well represented at TV Tropes. Is there any particular reason as to why you aren't a fan?A:'Because the JAMES VELDT FACTOR is SKYBRICKED due to the LETS DO THAT AGAIN principle being SHORTFORM INVERSION HONEYPOT'd and FIFTEEN TO SUNDAY having less than BLUE FOAM DICE AWAY for TIMEPIECE COORDINATION so it can subvert the MOUSER MOUSER THATS WHAT SHE SAID.The comment section is the New Mexico of this fandom. Inhabited by meth dealers that some people like even though they're terrible people? Inhabited by a bizarre, often hostile enclave of strangers, some of who are probably meth dealers. The comments section is a self-administered territory that hangs off the road to the capital like a tick. The forum, and the regular threads on SA, Facepunch and so on are the suburban sprawl. The buttzone is the badlands beyond these areas where wild gangs of marauding perverts and serial killers roam the blasted countryside on nitro trucks, insulting every piece of fan work and calling every OP a faggot, no exceptions. |
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Post by alpacalypse on Mar 4, 2014 17:03:32 GMT
This sort of feels like its trying to shoo out the clowns, in that Mort was always sort of a more comedic character, who very rarely had any sort of significance on the plot, but now that things seem to be growing a bit more serious, and as we see the rather dark Jeanne plot is related to him through the ghost angle this chapter was about, he seems a tad out of place. One of the reasons I love this comic so much is how it balances fun and seriousness. Its a slice of life comic, but in a very strange school with some kids living an usual life. It has times where things get tense, and where we can see them relax. It feels like we're really getting to know these characters and that makes in enjoyable. Even if there are some characters that are not really important to the plot, I think having fun characters is important to the over all story. I think he could go in a different direction with Mort, but the need for Annie to practice taking someone to the ether before Jeanne means that Mort is going to have to go there himself. I would hope that Tom has more not super serious chapters going ahead and we see more of the fun characters like Red. |
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 4, 2014 17:05:00 GMT
TV Tropes actually reminds me of the Star Trek: the Next Generation episode Darmok, where the inhabitants of the planet only communicate through allegory.
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Post by legion on Mar 4, 2014 19:01:20 GMT
It should be noted that many names of tropes used on tvtropes weren't even invented there; most character archetype names existed before, and something like "Epileptic Trees" has its origin in the Lost fandom, iirc.
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Post by sniperserpent on Mar 4, 2014 21:24:41 GMT
TV Tropes actually reminds me of the Star Trek: the Next Generation episode Darmok, where the inhabitants of the planet only communicate through allegory. That's a pretty accurate description, actually. |
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Post by crater on Mar 5, 2014 1:08:52 GMT
TV Tropes actually reminds me of the Star Trek: the Next Generation episode Darmok, where the inhabitants of the planet only communicate through allegory. It always irked me when Picard started explaining Gilgamesh wrong also, SHAKA, WHEN THE WALLS FELL god damn that meme |
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