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Post by TBeholder on Jul 1, 2013 11:28:39 GMT
Aww... Such a temptress. With all the agility of a drunk and venerable tortoise, but hey, not everyone gets to be a trickster god.  Well, it looks like we're finally getting an answer on whether Renard actually tried to possess Annie or not; this seems to lean towards "yes". Aye, now we finally have the reliable source: Hetty's peculiar interpretation of how much she is told.  Got to say that I'm mystified as to what Renard sees in her. I guess he does have a history of making friends with morally ambiguous supernatural tricksters though. I was thinking about how they became friends, doesn't it seem like scenario where it's more likely that Renard felt sorry for Hetty than Hetty thinking Renard seems like a nice person? Must've happened that way... Maybe he thought that after he let Coyote get him into this, being too picky would be ludicrous. Or she helped him with one of those escapes from scary humans. Or it's just morbid amusement ("Up to more acts of unspeakale evil today, Hetty?") - why not? Or he tries to reform her... into something less embarrassing to talk with. |
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 1, 2013 11:35:04 GMT
Isn't Reynardine's forehead symbol the Antimony symbol?
In that case, Hettie's forehead symbol might not actually be important to her, but rather, to her master.
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Post by foresterr on Jul 1, 2013 11:45:49 GMT
Isn't Reynardine's forehead symbol the Antimony symbol? He's been shown to wear two, as neatly shown in this Treatise (although in the comic proper he never has both at the same time). Hmm, you know what, actually I think Rey might be wearing the antimony symbol out of his own free will and whatever feelings he has for Annie and her mother. The mercury symbol on the other hand seems to be strongly related to his powers. In Hetty's case, I doubt she would wear anything Adam-related if she could help it. |
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Post by Per on Jul 1, 2013 13:08:08 GMT
I seem to remember seeing something related to calcium with this symbol... |
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melkior
Junior Member
Nice Hat!
Posts: 84
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Post by melkior on Jul 1, 2013 13:24:05 GMT
It seems to me that Hetty is so consumed with her own hatred that she's failing to recognise Rey's emotions. Instead, she's projecting her own attitudes onto Rey and interpreting his attitudes as her own. That's always dangerous, even when the person you're projecting onto both recognises it and doesn't mind. I'd say Rey both recognises it and is merely being tolerant - for now.
In other words, methinks Hetty is going to be hoist by her own petard, sooner or later. Knowing Tom, probably later rather than sooner.
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Post by The Anarch on Jul 1, 2013 13:46:49 GMT
Got to say that I'm mystified as to what Renard sees in her. For a tiny little doll, she's got some big cleavage action going on. |
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Ender
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Post by Ender on Jul 1, 2013 14:05:07 GMT
Doesn't it look like oilessence with oil1 above it? By the way, I played with the RGB curves a bit so the symbol is easier to see:  |
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Post by ctso74 on Jul 1, 2013 14:08:56 GMT
Perhaps, instead of being an etheric being, she was originally human. This could be the Court's version of prison or capital punishment. On one hand, the Court seems like a place that would simply kill you, if necessary. On the other hand, it seems like a place with options, that are "fates worse than death." If you've seriously wronged someone, being made their literal puppet would be a poignant punishment. Especially, considering her personality. Maybe he thought that after he let Coyote get him into this, being too picky would be ludicrous. Or she helped him with one of those escapes from scary humans. Or it's just morbid amusement ("Up to more acts of unspeakale evil today, Hetty?") - why not? Or he tries to reform her... into something less embarrassing to talk with. Or maybe, he's undercover for the Court. Trying to win good favor for himself and Annie. |
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Post by nflmdslh0et on Jul 1, 2013 16:13:16 GMT
All I am getting for "spargyric & mercury" and "sulfur & mercury" is a bunch of new-age snake oil medicines. "As we discussed in our previous article on the Salt level, Spagyrics works with three different aspects of being in plants, each corresponding to a level of being in us. Paracelsus originally devised the Spagyric system for working with plants this way, and he described the three levels as Salt, Mercury, and Sulfur, the body, spirit, and soul.Mercury is the principle of action, life, change, and balance. Like Mercury the deity, who travels between the worlds, Mercury the principle is a mediator. The Mercury level of being resides between the physical Salt body and the eternal Sulfur soul, and it both fixes the soul in a container of being and enlivens the body with the divine spark.It's probably Mercury seeing as how it's also on Rey's head in chapter 6, and Mercury is his symbol. |
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Post by nflmdslh0et on Jul 1, 2013 16:16:12 GMT
Darn, I meant panel 6, not chapter. Still half-asleep.
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Post by atteSmythe on Jul 1, 2013 16:20:40 GMT
I'm finding far more references to the symbol for essential oil having the third vertical bar than without. It also appears that Neptune is almost always curved, with the outer prongs ending either parallel to the middle one or pointed outward - rarely or never pointed in towards the center.
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Post by Weeaboo on Jul 1, 2013 16:26:36 GMT
I decided to take the image of her head and darken it. And lookie what I found! It seems there is a triangle above the oil essence symbol.   EDIT: And looks like I was beat to it, as well. 2 hours beat to it. This is what I get for not going to page 2! |
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Post by SerenaJo on Jul 1, 2013 16:29:23 GMT
I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but does anyone else wonder if Hetty has other forms like Renard does? It isn't difficult for me to imagine her turning into something much more sinister.
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Post by SerenaJo on Jul 1, 2013 16:33:00 GMT
I also just realized that Hetty probably thinks his regret is over failing to take her body, rather than the attempt itself.
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Post by philman on Jul 1, 2013 16:34:29 GMT
I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but does anyone else wonder if Hetty has other forms like Renard does? It isn't difficult for me to imagine her turning into something much more sinister. There are forms MORE sinister than a living toy doll? Unless her other form is a clown I'm not sure what else qualifies! Eurgh, dolls. |
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Post by SerenaJo on Jul 1, 2013 16:45:25 GMT
There are forms MORE sinister than a living toy doll? Unless her other form is a clown I'm not sure what else qualifies! Eurgh, dolls. Haha, as someone who got porcelain dolls every Christmas until about 15, they really don't bother me. I was thinking of something a little more Chucky-ish I suppose. |
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Ender
Junior Member
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Post by Ender on Jul 1, 2013 16:48:07 GMT
I decided to take the image of her head and darken it. And lookie what I found! It seems there is a triangle above the oil essence symbol. EDIT: And looks like I was beat to it, as well. 2 hours beat to it. This is what I get for not going to page 2! Well, to me it looks to me like those are 3 dots above it. The symbol for "oil" is 3 dots that form a triangle. Anyone else see this? |
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Post by The Anarch on Jul 1, 2013 17:09:17 GMT
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 1, 2013 17:31:29 GMT
Launch signatures! She's firing cheeto-dust torpedos, evasive action! Scotty, take us to warp nine!
I DOONT HAVE THE POWAH CAPTAIN!!!
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Post by soggylithe on Jul 1, 2013 17:42:44 GMT
Hey Sierra did you notice that the symbol you were talking about earlier is very similar to those on the moon and sun in the treatise showing Rey's two symbols here that foresterr pointed out?  I wonder if they're related or if the 90 degree turn makes them something completely different. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 1, 2013 18:20:13 GMT
Hey Sierra did you notice that the symbol you were talking about earlier is very similar to those on the moon and sun in the treatise showing Rey's two symbols here that foresterr pointed out? I wonder if they're related or if the 90 degree turn makes them something completely different. Hmm... I see the Antimony symbol on Renard, and the one above that is Mercury. Moving to the circle with wings above Jeanne, I see sun/gold symbol on top, and as for the second two, I have no idea. As far as the sun and the moon, it could be a stylistic choice to bisect them like that, but it is drawn with the same general thickness as the other symbols. I don't know what that would represent, though. The sun and moon are gold and silver in alchemy, respectively, so I wonder what salt could mean in conjunction with them. Good eyes, btw. Welcome aboard. |
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Post by exuberancium on Jul 1, 2013 18:57:46 GMT
I'm pretty sure its just a stylized Neptune.
I like how every alchemical symbol also looks like about 1000 other symbols, making it such an impractical system to denote anything with unless your goal is ambiguity.
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melkior
Junior Member
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Post by melkior on Jul 1, 2013 19:13:10 GMT
Closer inspection of the symbol invites speculation as to whether or not it may be (or have features of) other elements.  Sulphur (also sometimes used for Arsenic)  Phosphorus Both of these are viable options because Arsenic is poisonous (just examine Hetty's personality) and both sulphur and phosphorus are flammable, with phosphorus being especially reactive. The alternate explanation is that the extra lines just make the symbol into one of the alternates for oil essence. I expect that time (and Tom's artwork) will tell. |
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Post by philman on Jul 1, 2013 19:28:24 GMT
Leaving aside the great debate on what the symbol actually is (I am personally skeptical about the oil essence, just because it seems so unconventional compared to the other alchemical symbols Tom uses).
I found it interesting WHEN it appeared, Hetty seemed to go slightly grey and with a scary look on her face. In all other cases where people's/creature's symbols have become visible, it is usually related to when they go etheric. Renard has the Antimony symbol when he is real because it is printed on the doll's body. But the mercury symbol appears when he is etheric in some way. Is this a hint as to Hetty's true form? I know it isn't much, she is just, uh, greyer, but it's telling us something about her. She certainly has etheric abilities anyway.
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Post by Nnelg on Jul 1, 2013 20:16:19 GMT
I decided to take the image of her head and darken it. And lookie what I found! It seems there is a triangle above the oil essence symbol. EDIT: And looks like I was beat to it, as well. 2 hours beat to it. This is what I get for not going to page 2! Well, to me it looks to me like those are 3 dots above it. The symbol for "oil" is 3 dots that form a triangle. Anyone else see this? Yes, I agree it looks more like three separate dots than a triangle. This would make sense too, if it actually is "oil essence". I'd like to reserve judgement until we can get some better sources, though. I like how every alchemical symbol also looks like about 1000 other symbols, making it such an impractical system to denote anything with unless your goal is ambiguity. To be fair, the biggest reason it's ambiguous is because they aren't standardized. The set of "Alchemical Symbols" includes hundreds of different systems used by generations of alchemists whom had no easy way of getting their own usages coordinated with their contemporaries. To put it in perspective, imagine if you were an alien researcher studying human chemistry, and you've received a few dozen copies of the periodic table. But they're all in different formats, using random alphabets for each element, with many incomplete and others listing all known (or stable) isotopes as individual entries, et cetera. Of course it's going to look like a pointless and counter-productive system. |
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sotha
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Post by sotha on Jul 1, 2013 20:33:36 GMT
I certainly hope Hetty has a greater purpose than to be antagonistic and cast light on Renard's take on things. Like a foil.
It just feels a little odd to have such a new character introduced in such a manner. I wonder how intentional such a thing as this is with regard to this juxtaposition of pacing and flow or whatever, compared to recent chapters.
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Post by agentletrush on Jul 1, 2013 20:47:12 GMT
I find it interesting that Hetty thinks Renard should be impressed by the idea of having Annie's power. Does this mean Annie is potentially more powerful than fox Renard, or is Hetty just forgetting how powerful Renard once was? She could just be comparing Annie to the doll, I suppose.
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Post by siaynoq on Jul 1, 2013 21:16:08 GMT
I suspect Hetty is thinking more of the fact that possessing Annie would break her ownership of him, which makes me wonder what Hetty would get from such a thing, outside of satisfaction. An inkling of how to break her own bondage? And what would Hetty do once she breaks free? I can see that being a huge problem for two new mediums. Also, her name made me think of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetty_Sorrel...along with the name Adam, it makes me think she *was* human and was imprisoned in this body for her crimes and that Renard is friends with her for more reasons than pity. The parallels of their crimes "committed for love" probably weigh on him. As for the symbol, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam is someone we've met already, and it's just referencing his last name. |
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Post by Marnath on Jul 2, 2013 0:56:58 GMT
I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but does anyone else wonder if Hetty has other forms like Renard does? It isn't difficult for me to imagine her turning into something much more sinister. There are forms MORE sinister than a living toy doll? Unless her other form is a clown I'm not sure what else qualifies! Eurgh, dolls. I was going to say spiders but when I saw you mention clowns, I got the mental image of some sort of giant spider-taur with the torso of a clown and eight garishly colored orange and yellow spider legs and a giant spider abdomen under it. |
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 2, 2013 1:09:33 GMT
There are forms MORE sinister than a living toy doll? Unless her other form is a clown I'm not sure what else qualifies! Eurgh, dolls. I was going to say spiders but when I saw you mention clowns, I got the mental image of some sort of giant spider-taur with the torso of a clown and eight garishly colored orange and yellow spider legs and a giant spider abdomen under it.  |
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Well, it looks like we're finally getting an answer on whether Renard actually tried to possess Annie or not; this seems to lean towards "yes". Aye, now we finally have the reliable source: Hetty's peculiar interpretation of how much she is told. 
I was thinking about how they became friends, doesn't it seem like scenario where it's more likely that Renard felt sorry for Hetty than Hetty thinking Renard seems like a nice person? Must've happened that way... Maybe he thought that after he let Coyote get him into this, being too picky would be ludicrous.
