[1202] Yea.. Ok

[wombat]

May 27, 2013 9:06:17 GMT wynne said:

May 27, 2013 7:12:49 GMT wombat said:

Or people clapped/didn't clap hard enough. I don't know, man, I stayed up until 3am for this.

EST solidarity! I'm in PA, mate, what part of this great time zone do you hail from?

I'm in Michigan...mate.

May 27, 2013 9:10:16 GMT TBeholder said:

May 27, 2013 7:30:30 GMT wombat said:

Also, I'm amused by the fact that chapter-wise, "Catalyst" comes after "Changes."

Why? Changes happen. Then the catalyst remains in precipitate.

...Huh. That's actually an interesting way to think about these two chapters.

As far as Annie's reaction, I imagine it as being something like panel three of this page: gunnerkrigg.com/?p=592
Which I interpret as something like "I want to be happy about this but I am somewhat surprised and unsure how I feel about Kat being in a relationship."
(She was supportive of the Aly thing, but it was established he was only going to be around for a week; something that could turn into a long term relationship might be different.)

[Marnath]

May 27, 2013 7:05:31 GMT GK Sierra said:

I'm just glad Tom had the courage to tackle this issue.

In hindsight it would have been impossible to simply dodge it after so much foreshadowing and build time.

Tackle this issue, do you mean aside from how he already tackled it years ago? ZimmyxGamma were shown to be a couple years ago so this isn't a new idea in the court.

Anyone thinking Annie might react poorly needs to go back a bit and read the page where she and Kat are in the cafeteria. "Who's it from? Are they in this room right now?" Notice that she didn't say he, she left it open ended. Reynardine isn't the only person who suspected Kat was into girls.

May 27, 2013 15:31:15 GMT kukapetal said:

Again, that makes a ton of sense...because you've explained to us what you were going through, your thought process as it happened, etc. But we got none of that with Kat. If the comic had dropped a few hints about her liking girls before the misunderstanding with Paz, then said misunderstanding causing her to reevaluate her sexuality would make sense.

gunnerkrigg.com/?p=111
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=618 (bottom row)
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=957
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1031
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1050

1)Rey suggests that the girls should kiss and Kat blushes.
2)Jack suggests that Annie and Kat are a couple, Kat gets defensive.
3)Rey suggests that Kat thinks Parley is nice to look at, Kat gets embarrassed.
4)Zimmy says she's heard "things" about Kat. Things which would make her dress different, act different. Things we can assume Zimmy probably knows about since her girlfriend is standing right there.
5)The hairband of +5 straightness is taken from Kat by a known same-sex couple with the advice that you can't always run away from what scares you.

The implications seem clear.

[Weeaboo]

And now we know why the chapter was called Catalyst.

[seaofalchemy]

Kat and Paz are gonna eat out... I mean, for their dinner date when they go out... that's if they have dinner... or breakfast or lunch... Yeah... Okay. That was bad. BUT ANYWAY! I wonder if they kissed. It sorta looked like they were in total moving-in-for-a-kiss position. Hehehe. So, what's their shipper name? Pat? Kaz? ...God, I'm so terribly gay. ._.'

[spritznar]

May 27, 2013 15:31:15 GMT kukapetal said:

[...] But we got none of that with Kat. If the comic had dropped a few hints about her liking girls before the misunderstanding with Paz, then said misunderstanding causing her to reevaluate her sexuality would make sense. Or if we'd had more access to her inner thoughts as she went though this and saw that she was going through something similar to what you did, again, I could accept it as making sense for the character. But all we got was that the situation was bugging her, without much explanation of why it bugged her so much. [...] Again, I'm not slamming the comic. In fact, the reason this has confused me so much is because the storytelling in this comic is usually top-notch...so this just seems really jarring. Which leaves me wondering if I just really missed something. But honestly, it seems like everyone else is just speculating about what might have gone on in Kat's mind too, so I'm guessing there was no crucial hint that I missed.

i believe what you missed was the in-retrospect-probably-real-and-intentional subtext that has been much debated.

i think that very straight people sometimes don't realize how differently early same sex attraction and romances usually play out compared to straight attraction and romances. they're more tenative and cautions and played very close to the vest because you're not sure what it means, and you certainly don't want other people making assumptions before you even figure anything out. (i mean what if it turns out to be nothing? why even bring it to anyone's attention...)

i think people with same sex tendancies have more incentive to learn and note the little tells of queerness - little things that say "maybe not so straight". admittedly that can lead to reading too much into things, but sometimes they're honestly seeing signs that straight people aren't looking for or don't recognize.

edit: and while i was responding to that marnath made a nice list of some examples...

[luppus]

And the surprises never end. Kat still did not manage to string more than two words together, but her hands in panel 5 tell quite something about her state of mind. (Although maybe not as much as some posters and a lot more commenters seem to think...)

May 27, 2013 15:31:15 GMT kukapetal said:

But we got none of that with Kat. If the comic had dropped a few hints about her liking girls before the misunderstanding with Paz, then said misunderstanding causing her to reevaluate her sexuality would make sense. Or if we'd had more access to her inner thoughts as she went though this and saw that she was going through something similar to what you did, again, I could accept it as making sense for the character. But all we got was that the situation was bugging her, without much explanation of why it bugged her so much.

That's why, to me, anyway, the whole situation came across as "Someone mistook me for gay(or bi)? I guess that means I AM gay(or bi)." Almost like a parody of a paranoid person who thinks any situation that could be construed as homoerotic is proof positive of someone being gay. Like a joke I read on the Onion once that went something like "If someone of the same sex as you needs CPR and there is no one of the opposite sex around to perform it and you must do it, you are gay." Only taken seriously.

Again, I'm not slamming the comic. In fact, the reason this has confused me so much is because the storytelling in this comic is usually top-notch...so this just seems really jarring. Which leaves me wondering if I just really missed something. But honestly, it seems like everyone else is just speculating about what might have gone on in Kat's mind too, so I'm guessing there was no crucial hint that I missed.

That said, if any comic deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's this one, so maybe it will all be explained in a way that makes sense later. I'll just have to wait and see.

While I can't honestly say that I expected this to happen (I was certain Kat would ice her off, at least take some time to think it all through), it did not come out of left field for me. There's been small details and background events, like her reaction to Rey's comment [edit] and the other examples marnath collected[/edit] someone already mentioned, which upon reading through the archive mad me wonder if she truly was as straight as she would have everyone else believe. I do believe she is into guys, but that does not exclude her being attracted to girls.
Like I said, I am a bit surprised she decided to act upon it so instantly, though. Apparently she has already done a lot of thinking about this since Faraway Morning, analyzing her emotions and attractions. Or maybe it's simpler than that - Paz has just told her that you can put your emotions to the test by acting upon them, and she decides to give it - give her - a try. Just go along with it and see where you end up - a scientist's approach.

That said, there is something that puzzles me, namely some posts (and not some comments) along the lines of "Hey, a new couple!/I knew they'd be together!/Now Kat regrets having moved in with Annie...". Reading this made me wonder if there is something wrong with my style or if these people have never dated. They have just agreed to go on a date some time. No less, but no more, either. I have had quite some dates up to now, and by no means did every date result in a relationship. Heck, there are girls I dated several times without so much as a kiss resulting! Being nice and smart and funny is no guarantee for love, at least in my experience. So even if Kat and Paz are dating now, it doesn't make them a couple yet.
Besides, just to make the point again: these girls are 14 years old! Hands up among those here who are still together with the guy/girl they fell in love with when they were 14. Even if they form an "official couple" like John & Margo next week, no ship is sunk (sunken?) yet...

[edit]I type too slow... [/edit]

[Toloc]

I'd like to add p.604
"nobody creeps out my main babe"

May 27, 2013 18:08:45 GMT seaofalchemy said:

Kat and Paz are gonna eat out... I mean, for their dinner date when they go out... that's if they have dinner... or breakfast or lunch... Yeah... Okay. That was bad. BUT ANYWAY! I wonder if they kissed. It sorta looked like they were in total moving-in-for-a-kiss position. Hehehe. So, what's their shipper name? Pat? Kaz? ...God, I'm so terribly gay. ._.'

Thought about making a thread about it, you beat me to it.
I vote Pat. Or something weirder combining animals and robots... Bionics?

[stef1987]

I did not expected this,
I mean I'm happy Paz didn't get shot down,
but it really seemed to me kat would refuse.

The page wasn't completely loaded when I started reading, and when I saw the second panel, I was sure she would turn her down.
I was completely surprised when I saw that smile on Kat's face.

I guess Gamma's talk with Kat had more of an effect than I expected.

(but still, look at panel 2, you can't say it doesn't look like she'll say no, so I guess the 3th panel made her change her mind?)

[spritznar]

May 27, 2013 18:41:53 GMT stef1987 said:

when I saw the second panel, I was sure she would turn her down.
I was completely surprised when I saw that smile on Kat's face.
[...] (but still, look at panel 2, you can't say it doesn't look like she'll say no, so I guess the 3th panel made her change her mind?)

without hearing kat's vocal inflection i think that panel could be taken a few ways.
i agree, i did take it to be the sympathetic beginning of a gentle put down due to my own expectations.
when i re-read it, it could have also been said affectionately, expressing kat was touched and flattered.
(or just still expressing surprise and/or confusion)

i think they are equally valid interpretations, but our expectations lead us to assume the former, until later panels contradict that

[TBeholder]

May 27, 2013 18:53:06 GMT spritznar said:

May 27, 2013 18:41:53 GMT stef1987 said:

when I saw the second panel, I was sure she would turn her down.
I was completely surprised when I saw that smile on Kat's face.
[...] (but still, look at panel 2, you can't say it doesn't look like she'll say no, so I guess the 3th panel made her change her mind?)

without hearing kat's vocal inflection i think that panel could be taken a few ways. i agree, i did take it to be the sympathetic beginning of a gentle put down due to my own expectations. but when i re-read it, it could have also been said affectionately, expressing kat was touched and flattered

Well, you know how this works.
Not even vampires or succubi are resistant to the power of Puppy Dog Eyes!
...Annie just have better training at subtle use of magic than Paz.

[snipertom]

Wow, I'd forgotten just how mean Jack was when he had spiders or crabs or headcrabs.

It makes me just wonder how on earth Annie was strangely attracted to him

[TBeholder]

Simply on contrast? He was also cool, and now isn't all that crazy, so...

[sebastian]

May 27, 2013 10:57:10 GMT macderp said:

I love my lesbians, i mean who doesn't hell i used to be one but yaknow transsexual now and stuff but that doesn't matter, what matters is Kat and Paz. You know what worries me about them? the big ol' judging machine (pretty much people who think their opinions matter) sure most will be fine. Annie might be lonely and may try to intervene with them but she would accept eventually . parents on the other hand would be a worrying topic. blegh i really want to do the characters and reactions to this but its late and i need sleep.

Even if i did there's still a chance this would all fall apart anyway and turn out to just be some experiment and it all goes to crap. _sigh

I don't know about the "judging machine", Frankly I'd like to see something like this.

"wait, let me get this straight, you live in the Court, here there are walking plants, puppet demon wolves, ghosts, minotaurs, fire elemental girls, dryads, spider girls, robots, wizards, people that talk with animals, gods and who knows what else, but what really freak you out are two girls dating each other??

you have some confused priorities, man."

And about KAt/paz, I don't want to ruin it for anybody but I think it is still possible that
a) Kat said "ok, yeah" to not break Paz's heart, I mean , if she had said no, well, the thing end there (in tears, probably) but if she say yes, she can gain some time and try to drop her softly, after all she just asked for some dates, not to marry her and adopt an half dozen children,
b) it is possible that Kat fell something for Paz, but she is not sure of what it is, if just friendship or something more (I mean, she is a teenager and if memory don't fail me the natural state for a teenager is confusion), so she is willing to give it a try, but it still could go either ways..

[Spike]

i am dying jesus christ this is so great
hold me

[GK Sierra]

May 27, 2013 20:50:38 GMT Spike said:

i am dying jesus christ this is so great
hold me

Hold you? That's kind of not my job bro...

...but since you're dying I'll make an exception.

[Per]

A nice, straightforward end to a nice, straightforward chapter.

I'm not sure how Kat traced the letter to Bobby, but maybe she has a very good memory for printers.

Hoping for canonical charndickery for the bonus.

[dante]

May 27, 2013 21:38:22 GMT Per said:

Hoping for canonical charndickery for the bonus.

We can but hope. I actually had a dream about the dickcharney the other night. It was hitting fieldmice on the head like in that children's song.

[warrl]

May 27, 2013 9:10:20 GMT kukapetal said:

But like I said, she's been shown to quite loudly and enthusiastically like guys.

There are several sorts of girls who would tend to be loud and enthusiastic about liking boys:

1) Heterosexual girls who are loud and enthusiastic in general. Is Kat loud and enthusiastic in general? I wouldn't say so.

2) Bisexual girls who are loud and enthusiastic in general, OR who are trying to pretend they aren't interested in other girls.

3) Homosexual girls who are trying to pretend (to themselves or to others) they aren't interested in other girls.

4) Girls still developing their sexual identity and getting a little scared about some aspects of it.

5) Asexual girls who are trying to pretend they have "normal" (whatever they imagine that might mean) sexual interest so that they "fit in" better.

I'm sure there are more.

I still doubt that Kat is currently lesbian and I'm not at all sure Paz is either. Either or both could be either bisexual, or exploring to try to determine their real sexual identity.

As for Kat's response, I'm somewhat surprised. What I was expecting is something more along the lines of "Now I gotta think about how I feel about that... but no matter what, you're my friend."

[warrl]

May 27, 2013 10:17:03 GMT snipertom said:

That said, I found Willow being gay to be jarring, however she was 18 and suddenly "turned gay" which made less sense to me though apparently this can happen?

I find it rather non-credible.

I find someone turning 18 and suddenly stopping a pretense of being heterosexual, rather more credible.

At age 18 in particular because that's when the parents stop being a *legal* factor. (They can remain a factor in a great many other ways.)

[rama]

Huh...that was.....yeah.

That was a very grown up way of doing it.

Glad that there is fiction out there that shows that not everything needs to be disastrous or a perfect hollywood pickup. Can't really say this is even that much of a pickup. Much more down to earth than that.

Awkward people need to reach out too.

Props to Paz for braving it. She put herself out there and that takes some real guts. Especially when you're not that smooth an operator.


Now, does Bobby mean some of the letter to be from him, or was he just the messenger? What he said could be just covering for Paz, but that'd take some serious understanding about human interaction, something that doesn't seem common in the court robots. Then again some robots have shown themselves more competent, and Bobby seems like a very reliable person.

[stsasser]

May 27, 2013 10:57:10 GMT macderp said:

parents on the other hand would be a worrying topic.

Paz is a member of:
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens

Scene:
Kat: "Mum, Dad, I'm going on a date with Paz."
Anja: "Have fun."
Donald: "Be careful and don't break curfew."

Kat leaves.

Anja & Donald: Happy Dance with party hats.

I'm not saying her parents are narrow-minded about 'Kingdom: Robotica' or 'Class: Aves', not to mention elementals, demons, or shadows, but 'girl vs. boy' is a pretty small issue in comparison.

[dracazula]

I've been amazed at the lack of negativity in the comments. Although there have been a few grumps, and they've all said something along the lines of "I'm very disappointed in you, Tom". Still, it's been almost entirely positive.

[AluK]

May 27, 2013 23:16:55 GMT stsasser said:

Scene:
Kat: "Mum, Dad, I'm going on a date with Paz."
Anja: "Have fun."
Donald: "Be careful and don't break curfew."

Kat leaves.

Anja & Donald: Happy Dance with party hats.

I'm not saying her parents are narrow-minded about 'Kingdom: Robotica' or 'Class: Aves', not to mention elementals, demons, or shadows, but 'girl vs. boy' is a pretty small issue in comparison.

I have a feeling that the Dolans are the kind of parents that wouldn't mind Kat dating anything, as long as it's a nice and well-behaved anything.

[kukapetal]

May 27, 2013 17:56:36 GMT Marnath said:

gunnerkrigg.com/?p=111
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=618 (bottom row)
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=957
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1031
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1050

1)Rey suggests that the girls should kiss and Kat blushes.
2)Jack suggests that Annie and Kat are a couple, Kat gets defensive.
3)Rey suggests that Kat thinks Parley is nice to look at, Kat gets embarrassed.
4)Zimmy says she's heard "things" about Kat. Things which would make her dress different, act different. Things we can assume Zimmy probably knows about since her girlfriend is standing right there.
5)The hairband of +5 straightness is taken from Kat by a known same-sex couple with the advice that you can't always run away from what scares you.

The implications seem clear.

Well, the first one never struck me as a sign of anything except being embarrassed when someone suggests they want to watch you make out with your best friend. I never got any kind of romantic vibe from the second one either...just Kat getting defensive on Annie's behalf because she's a good friend. The last three came after Kat started questioning her sexuality. My issue was more that there never seemed to be any hints before Paz mistook her for gay that would make such an innocent little misunderstanding turn into a struggle with her sexuality. Because of that, her struggles with it after the fact seemed like they came out of nowhere. Before that, Kat seemed not only quite straight, but also quite comfortable with her sexuality.

But again, this comic's not close to being over yet, and I'm definitely optimistic that all this will eventually make sense.

[ReubenPatrick]

I tried to forget the Xbox One Reveal and this chapter helped a lot because it put a big smile on my face.

[dismalscientist]

May 28, 2013 1:40:49 GMT AluK said:

I have a feeling that the Dolans are the kind of parents that wouldn't mind Kat dating anything, as long as it's a nice and well-behaved anything.

“Hello, Mr and Mrs Donlan. It’s very pleasant to meet you.”

“Kat tells us so much about you, Mr …?”

“Azathoth, Lord of Chaos, Haunter of the Dark Places. But please, friends just call me Azzie.”

“Azzie — I have to ask, what are your intentions with our daughter?”

“No apologies necessary. Well, I plan to take her out for a quiet evening, there’s an exquisite little Italian restaurant on the corner near my flat. Then we’ll return to my place. There I shall impregnate her with my thousand squirming young, who will — after a torturous gestation period of six days, six hours and six minutes — burst from her body in a magnificently bloody herald of the End Times.”

“Ah …”

“Mrs Donlan — Anja — may I say you look positively lovely tonight?”

“Oh, thank you!”

<later>

“Such a nice boy.”

[arf]

May 27, 2013 23:16:55 GMT stsasser said:

May 27, 2013 10:57:10 GMT macderp said:

parents on the other hand would be a worrying topic.

Paz is a member of:
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens

Scene:
Kat: "Mum, Dad, I'm going on a date with Paz."
Anja: "Have fun."
Donald: "Be careful and don't break curfew."

Kat leaves.

Anja & Donald: Happy Dance with party hats.

I'm not saying her parents are narrow-minded about 'Kingdom: Robotica' or 'Class: Aves', not to mention elementals, demons, or shadows, but 'girl vs. boy' is a pretty small issue in comparison.

xkcd has a compelling graphic to show that T.Rex was more closely related to sparrows than to Stegosaurs (both in time and phylogenetic distance)

(Smitty & Parley: party hats R us)

[sotha]

At least something like this didn't happen-

Paz: So I... just wanted to let you know. And maybe... if you wanted... we can go out some time? Together?

Kat: Yeah, look, it's really sweet and everything, but I just can't accept it. You should know it's not... you know, it's against the... you know

Paz: I understand, miss. There is no need to explain. I apologise for overstepping my bounds.

Kat: Yeah...

[arf]

May 28, 2013 1:56:20 GMT kukapetal said:

May 27, 2013 17:56:36 GMT Marnath said:

gunnerkrigg.com/?p=111
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=618 (bottom row)
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=957
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1031
gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1050

1)Rey suggests that the girls should kiss and Kat blushes.
2)Jack suggests that Annie and Kat are a couple, Kat gets defensive.
3)Rey suggests that Kat thinks Parley is nice to look at, Kat gets embarrassed.
4)Zimmy says she's heard "things" about Kat. Things which would make her dress different, act different. Things we can assume Zimmy probably knows about since her girlfriend is standing right there.
5)The hairband of +5 straightness is taken from Kat by a known same-sex couple with the advice that you can't always run away from what scares you.

The implications seem clear.

Well, the first one never struck me as a sign of anything except being embarrassed when someone suggests they want to watch you make out with your best friend. I never got any kind of romantic vibe from the second one either...just Kat getting defensive on Annie's behalf because she's a good friend. The last three came after Kat started questioning her sexuality. My issue was more that there never seemed to be any hints before Paz mistook her for gay that would make such an innocent little misunderstanding turn into a struggle with her sexuality. Because of that, her struggles with it after the fact seemed like they came out of nowhere. Before that, Kat seemed not only quite straight, but also quite comfortable with her sexuality.

But again, this comic's not close to being over yet, and I'm definitely optimistic that all this will eventually make sense.

If you're a new reader, then it doesn't surprise me that you haven't picked up on the nuances yet (they are very subtle and take time to be noticed; although I started quirking an eyebrow slightly when Kat and Annie climbed the cherry tree: panel 6 has quite an intense look. Just enjoying good fellowship? Possibly something more?*). Also, look closely at the character placings for the first few pages of 'Faraway Morning', when the girls are organising their escape: Kat is more with Paz than Annie (I only noticed when I re-read; but clues in retrospect are one of the delights of a well-told story)

*Of course, if there is anything prior to Faraway Morning, Kat's doing it quite unconsciously.

[Mezzaphor]

May 27, 2013 15:15:31 GMT jasaebushae said:

Welp, my heart grew three sizes this day.

You should see a doctor about that. I sounds serious.