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Post by astrobread on Oct 6, 2012 4:42:04 GMT
I'm wondering if the flashback for Wandering Eye will go all the way back to the story told here: 488 A great spirit represented as a giant eye, methodically placing the stars in the sky one by one with almost robotic precision until Coyote arrives to "help". He even suggests asking Jones about that time with the stars in 1076, probably to rub in how deliciously clever and wise he is.
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Post by dailenna on Oct 6, 2012 5:37:19 GMT
As for the squick if she is quite empathically NOT his mom... Frankly, this is a comic with "elements of fantasy" in it. If Jones is an ugaging being (which for Eglamore would be very apparent), the whole age difference thing is not 1:1 with real life examples; her subjective age is somewhere between 20 and 30 and always will be there. If you are coming from the "abuse of position of authority" angle, maybe the previous page was the very first time Jones made her feelings, other than general sympathy, for James known (Jones? Not showing her feelings? I must be joking, right? ). He was very much an adult then, and I'm sure his poor fragile mind is fully intact Yeah, this I agree with. There are so many fantasy stories where immortal (or close-to) characters get into relationships with mortals, and this seems just like that to me, so I don't see where the grossness everyone is complaining about comes from. Replace Jones/Eglamore with any vampire/human story, or for that matter, just about any other non-human/human story, since the life-lines are usually different, and it's the same situation. If Jones saw him as a kid and went "I want me some of that", that would be paedophilia. But if she came to fill a consensual romantic role in his life when he was of age, then how is that a problem? Yes, it looks in 1099 as though she's instigating, but he's annoyed (because he loves someone else), not scared (because he's being abused) and their relationship later seems as though they're on level sorts of terms. Ooh, and to add a new point instead of just arguing things: this makes me wonder about the relationship between Jones and Randy. Has Randy been keen for her since they looked the same age - and is that because of a similar situation as this one - or does he just like her for her Science?
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Post by philman on Oct 6, 2012 10:05:16 GMT
There is still some merit in Jones being a golem. The origional Golem legend has them being made out of clay or dirt, or possibly stone as in this chapters title. Although we have already seen robot-like golems in this strip before, they could easily just be the court's or Diego's attempt to copy or replicate what they found in traditional golems (especially if in a further flashback we see that Jones was around at the same time as Jeanne and Diego). And in this strip: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=884 We see that clay and mud traditional golems are known to them, and are suggested as insperation for Diego. And reading about the golem legend, they are supposed to have incredible strength, as we have seen Jones having, and there is one legend of a golem falling in love, then going on a murderous rampage when it was rejected. So they are capable of emotions. Of course I think I must have far less knowlage of the gunnerkreig mythology than some of you so please feel free to shoot me down if my ideas have already been refuted elsewhere!
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Post by snuffa on Oct 6, 2012 11:46:39 GMT
We have no evidence whatsoever of this theory, other than the fact that Sir Eglamore is not disturbed over Jones's presence, but why then, would a mother of a student be escorting another student to introduce to her son? We have no reasonings behind this theory. because it would make for a nice parallel with a mother of a student introducing (though not in person) Annie when she joined the court some 20+ years later. also: ugh, the TV-troping...
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 6, 2012 12:19:21 GMT
"You archive-binged on Magick Chicks too much, right? " I what on what? The start of Magick Chicks is here. If you start there and don't stop until you come up for air, that's an archive-binge. Okay.... on the second thought, I think I prefer remaining ignorant in this respect. Thanks for explaining archive-binge, though. I have to say, I have never done that, but I was not very far from archive-binging Gunnerwhatever court when I got hooked (that would have been the chapter in which Zimmy dig into Annie's mind, climbed up the bones and punched old man Carver). Say, I used around 6 sessions to go through it, which I think is pretty bad considering how much of this comic already existed.
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Thoth
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by Thoth on Oct 6, 2012 13:48:46 GMT
There is still some merit in Jones being a golem. The origional Golem legend has them being made out of clay or dirt, or possibly stone as in this chapters title. Although we have already seen robot-like golems in this strip before, they could easily just be the court's or Diego's attempt to copy or replicate what they found in traditional golems (especially if in a further flashback we see that Jones was around at the same time as Jeanne and Diego). And in this strip: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=884 We see that clay and mud traditional golems are known to them, and are suggested as insperation for Diego. And reading about the golem legend, they are supposed to have incredible strength, as we have seen Jones having, and there is one legend of a golem falling in love, then going on a murderous rampage when it was rejected. So they are capable of emotions. Of course I think I must have far less knowlage of the gunnerkreig mythology than some of you so please feel free to shoot me down if my ideas have already been refuted elsewhere! Jones wasn't at the court at the time that Jeanne and Diego were, because she knew nothing about Jeanne's existence (thanks to the Court wiping her from all records.)
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Post by smjjames on Oct 6, 2012 14:03:56 GMT
I'm sorry, but this comic has ruined my suspension of disbelief and I am quitting Gunnerkrigg forever. Glasses don't work like that. It's just an artistic way of showing expression.
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Thoth
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by Thoth on Oct 6, 2012 17:11:51 GMT
I'm sorry, but this comic has ruined my suspension of disbelief and I am quitting Gunnerkrigg forever. Glasses don't work like that. It's just an artistic way of showing expression. Or, knowing Donnie, they might be robotic glasses. They do resemble Wall-E's eyes.
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thatkid
New Member
Boxbot
Posts: 26
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Post by thatkid on Oct 6, 2012 17:19:50 GMT
I'm wondering if the flashback for Wandering Eye will go all the way back to the story told here: 488 A great spirit represented as a giant eye, methodically placing the stars in the sky one by one with almost robotic precision until Coyote arrives to "help". He even suggests asking Jones about that time with the stars in 1076, probably to rub in how deliciously clever and wise he is. On the next page, Tom mentions something interesting regarding Coyote myths: Arcturus' wikipage doesn't seem to have anything that would substantiate a theory that Jones is Arcturus. But hey.
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Post by GK Sierra on Oct 6, 2012 21:23:41 GMT
I'm wondering if the flashback for Wandering Eye will go all the way back to the story told here: 488 A great spirit represented as a giant eye, methodically placing the stars in the sky one by one with almost robotic precision until Coyote arrives to "help". He even suggests asking Jones about that time with the stars in 1076, probably to rub in how deliciously clever and wise he is. On the next page, Tom mentions something interesting regarding Coyote myths: Arcturus' wikipage doesn't seem to have anything that would substantiate a theory that Jones is Arcturus. But hey. That is a pretty convincing idea, but I wonder why a creation of Coyote's would decide to come and work for the Court?
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Post by Eversist on Oct 6, 2012 22:30:13 GMT
To everyone calling "Golem": Yes, that has been speculated many times before. In fact, it is my favourite theory. But Tom has flat-out said that she is not a golem. Also, I believe he said on another occasion that she is something of his own creation.
That being said, I would not be surprised if she is some sort of derivative.
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quoodle
Full Member
Just a man on a planet
Posts: 168
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Post by quoodle on Oct 7, 2012 4:43:48 GMT
Another look: In this flashback, Jones is observing again in the background. It's just what she does with Annie.
So what is Jones? An observer.
I know that doesn't answer much, but wherever she came from, it's not just for a job - it's to observe if anything.
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Post by GK Sierra on Oct 7, 2012 5:02:13 GMT
Another look: In this flashback, Jones is observing again in the background. It's just what she does with Annie. So what is Jones? An observer. I know that doesn't answer much, but wherever she came from, it's not just for a job - it's to observe if anything. If the "Coyote's Eye" theory is correct, perhaps she is Coyote's mole inside the Court.
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Post by Ashley Y on Oct 7, 2012 5:39:04 GMT
I also think it would be kind of weird if Eggers wanted his mom/aunt/maternal figure in his school friends' photo, but Jones didn't join in because Surma "can't stand her." He did because he's very attached to her. And this is why Surma rejected him.
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Post by hslugs on Oct 7, 2012 7:34:14 GMT
Let's leave Jones aside for a moment and take a closer look at James Eglamore. Jone's role in 1099 and 1100 seems to imply he's an orphan. 1100 also implies Donald is more or less in the same position. So was Surma. Brinnie isn't a human. Origins of Anthony and Anja are uncertain, but given their roles, I wouldn't be surprised they have similary bleak background. Of these six, all four who married did it whithin the Court and have all their kids studying in the Court. At least two other kids in Annie's class have/had their parents in the Court too. There's not a single named human characters with off-Court parent(s), and not a single Court/non-Court married pair shown. I know, conservation of detail and all, but still, that's creepy. Ishiguro-level creepy. You know, that institution Katie, Tommy and Ruth studied in. If the "Coyote's Eye" theory is correct, perhaps she is Coyote's mole inside the Court. She has stated on several occasions she's not on the Court side, and a lot of people know it I presume. That makes her an ambassador, not a mole.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 7, 2012 8:57:37 GMT
There's not a single named human characters with off-Court parent(s), and not a single Court/non-Court married pair shown. I know, conservation of detail and all, but still, that's creepy. Ishiguro-level creepy. You know, that institution Katie, Tommy and Ruth studied in. You bring up a very interesting notion! Now that you mention it, it is rather peculiar that the human characters who are currently students of the Court have parents that were, too, former students of the Court—and never off-Court parents that we know of. And nice analogical reference from the Gunnerkrigg Court to the institution in Never Let Me Go. (I loved that novel and film.) Of these six, all four who married did it whithin the Court and have all their kids studying in the Court. At least two other kids in Annie's class have/had their parents in the Court too. And yes, Jack Hyland's father is Hyland and Janet Llanwellyn's father is the Court's Headmaster.
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Post by warrl on Oct 7, 2012 9:40:04 GMT
One, we're talking British boarding schools here. The tradition of attending the same school that your same-sex parent attended is much stronger there than any similar tradition in the US. (Attending the same school that BOTH your parents attended is not so common, because until relatively recently most such schools were single-sex.)
Two, I can easily name three apparently-human students whose parents did not work at the school in the period when those students were too young for Gunnerkrigg - in addition to Antimony. Here they are: Gamma, Paz, and Anja. How do I know? Language. If they spent early childhood at, or in the vicinity of, a British boarding school, they would know English better.
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Post by amantis on Oct 7, 2012 11:29:33 GMT
Jones is his foster mother because he is an orphan in care of the court
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Post by GK Sierra on Oct 7, 2012 19:01:59 GMT
One, we're talking British boarding schools here. The tradition of attending the same school that your same-sex parent attended is much stronger there than any similar tradition in the US. (Attending the same school that BOTH your parents attended is not so common, because until relatively recently most such schools were single-sex.) Two, I can easily name three apparently-human students whose parents did not work at the school in the period when those students were too young for Gunnerkrigg - in addition to Antimony. Here they are: Gamma, Paz, and Anja. How do I know? Language. If they spent early childhood at, or in the vicinity of, a British boarding school, they would know English better. Supports the idea that the court has an active selection process and talent seekers abroad to find potential candidates, as well as the usual family referrals, such as in Antimony and Katerina's case.
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Post by zimmyzims on Oct 7, 2012 20:56:19 GMT
One, we're talking British boarding schools here. The tradition of attending the same school that your same-sex parent attended is much stronger there than any similar tradition in the US. (Attending the same school that BOTH your parents attended is not so common, because until relatively recently most such schools were single-sex.) Two, I can easily name three apparently-human students whose parents did not work at the school in the period when those students were too young for Gunnerkrigg - in addition to Antimony. Here they are: Gamma, Paz, and Anja. How do I know? Language. If they spent early childhood at, or in the vicinity of, a British boarding school, they would know English better. But there were two kinds of family backgrounds mentioned in the post you quoted: 1. orphanhood; 2. both parents attending the court. Nothing suggests that Gamma, Paz and Anja wouldn't go to the category 1. I can name fourth, Zimmy, and I think Zimmy is clearly an orphan. I too find this creepy. If they keep on breeding within the school, they'll soon produce an inbred generation. Especially if they mate with their mothers. When I first started this comic from the beginning, it seemed like a teenage girl book. Recently it has got increasingly creepy in all frontiers.
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Post by Ashley Y on Oct 7, 2012 21:28:30 GMT
Jones is his foster mother because he is an orphan in care of the court This is possible, but notice the physical resemblance between the two.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 7, 2012 22:47:30 GMT
I can name fourth, Zimmy, and I think Zimmy is clearly an orphan. Zimmy isn't an orphan. It hasn't been brought up in the story itself, but Tom has mentioned in a Formspring post that Zimmy has parents, but they don't even remember they have a daughter, and would be happy that she was gone if they did. I'm still not exactly sure whether the whole deal about orphans is a plot point, or just conservation of detail. Since this is a boarding school story, parents don't figure to the plot much, so it just feels like the orphans get emphasized in importance. For now it's pure speculation that Eglamore would be an orphan. His parents could be in Australia, for all we know. People come into prestigious boarding schools from all over the world, and the Court is probably the only one of its kind.
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Post by warrl on Oct 8, 2012 4:00:51 GMT
But there were two kinds of family backgrounds mentioned in the post you quoted: 1. orphanhood; 2. both parents attending the court. Hm, you're correct, I overlooked the original oversight. We in fact have a third kind of family background which is vastly more common than either of those two: Unspecified. Nothing suggests that they would, either. (We have no idea why this kid who speaks only Polish, and this other kid who speaks only English, were living in the streets of wherever they met.) Their background is at present very solidly in the third category, at least as far as in-comic stuff is concerned.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 8, 2012 5:04:39 GMT
Zimmy and Gamma met in Birmingham. That city has a sizable population of Polish immigrants.
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Post by amantis on Oct 14, 2012 4:24:22 GMT
Jones is his foster mother because he is an orphan in care of the court I just wanted to say, I think someone owes me a cookie
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Post by legion on Oct 14, 2012 11:07:10 GMT
Well, he was shown to have a mother and father so no, no cookie.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 14, 2012 11:16:34 GMT
Jones is his foster mother because he is an orphan in care of the court I just wanted to say, I think someone owes me a cookie Well, he was shown to have a mother and father so no, no cookie. Yes, they did show his mother and father. But the fact that Eglamore says "new home" and the fact that his mother was crying leads me to assume that he was never going to see his parents again. Note Tom's comment: Mr. Eglamore whistles, "Do all their teachers look like that?" and Mrs. Eglamore playfully slaps him. There are tears in her eyes."But that's just how I saw it. Edit: I fixed a typo.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 14, 2012 11:30:06 GMT
But that's just how I saw it. What mother doesn't cry when her child goes away from home for the first time? Some mothers still cry when their grown children go to college. There's really nothing about that scene that would indicate that they never saw each other again.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 14, 2012 11:37:26 GMT
But that's just how I saw it. What mother doesn't cry when her child goes away from home for the first time? Some mothers still cry when their grown children go to college. There's really nothing about that scene that would indicate that they never saw each other again. Yes, yes. I understand that. My mother cried when I left to college as well. To clarify what I meant was when he says "new home." That's when it seems a little, I dunno, suspicious. Solemn even. And has there ever been a time when the human characters of the Court ever been visited by their parents who weren't already in the Court? or have any human characters ever left the Court to visit their parents? I know that that may be irrelevant to the storyline and irrelevant to the continuity, but all that just made me think he never saw them again.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 14, 2012 11:39:06 GMT
But that's just how I saw it. What mother doesn't cry when her child goes away from home for the first time? Some mothers still cry when their grown children go to college. There's really nothing about that scene that would indicate that they never saw each other again. Oh, I'm an idiot. Hahaha. I just re-read that whole page and saw Jones say, "Do not worry, they will visit you often." Scratch, rip, burn, and flush what I just said earlier. ;D But... what if Jones was just trying to be reassuring? Here I am, jumping to conclusions again that are probably wrong and irrelevant.
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