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Post by OrzBrain on Sept 15, 2012 12:16:01 GMT
Remember, gods grow in strength. He might not have had the powers he does now when the Court was founded. Don't forget the Annan Waters. That was at the beginning of the Court, and from what we've heard Coyote carved it with one swipe of his claw. Not as impressive as imposing a young girl's fingerprint over a quarter of the visible face of the moon, but still indicative of a power level that can best be described as "Oh God! We're all dead!"
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cass
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by cass on Sept 15, 2012 15:35:43 GMT
When an amoral person (a.k.a. a psychopath) commits an action, that doesn't make the action amoral simply by virtue of the perpetrator having no sense of morality. Maybe not, but I do think people value processes in their assessment of morality. You don't blame a rabid dog, or a shark or something, for biting people right? It's just in their nature. In a way, I guess that damns them more than being evil would. There's no potential for common ground. You might be able to deal with them if you've some massive hold over them. But by and large it probably makes the most sense to just put them down.
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Post by csj on Sept 15, 2012 17:21:50 GMT
So the stars that Coyote showed Annie look about the same as Ys memories... Not sure if that was on purpose or what to think about that. Stars can't be Coyote's collection of captive memories... Or maybe only some of them are. Maybe he's still placing stars. I smell another fan-theory on Jones coming along. Would also explain why she takes a human form...
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Post by scottdog on Sept 15, 2012 18:40:49 GMT
Something seemed odd to me about Coyote's hand when he was taking Y's memory. Then I realized that his claws were missing. He's piercing his skull and reaching directly into his head.
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Post by Marnath on Sept 15, 2012 22:01:27 GMT
I don't get why some people were shocked by this. I've seen multiple times now where Coyote's mask of geniality slips and reveals the incredibly dangerous psychopath underneath. When he stops smiling, he looks like a serial killer. I've never doubted that he's psychologically capable of killing Annie for no reason at all if the whim strikes him. I'm still not sure if he's got a plan, or if he really is as unbalanced as he appears to be.
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Post by Lightice on Sept 15, 2012 22:18:55 GMT
If I remember correctly Coyote brought Rey and Ys with him to the forest. Who knows if that was by choice or by force. *shrug* If Coyote forced people into doing what he wants, the entire world would be a very different place. As far as we've seen, there is nothing that could stand on his way if he wanted to have something. But he doesn't. He cries and begs, rather than uses mind control or physical force. There may be other reasons, but I'm presuming that if he just made his subjects into puppets, he would be literally bored to death in the matter of days. I don't think that Coyote forced Reynardine or Ysengrin to do anything. He wanted to give his powers to Rey, remember, but Rey would have none of it. And though it's most certainly not the case, I think that he does believe that he's doing Ys a favour with this. After all, he's unhappy now, and unhappy equals boring in Coyote's mind, so he removes the source of his current unhappiness, and everything's fine again, as far as Coyote can understand such things. I don't get why some people were shocked by this. I've seen multiple times now where Coyote's mask of geniality slips and reveals the incredibly dangerous psychopath underneath. When he stops smiling, he looks like a serial killer. I've never doubted that he's psychologically capable of killing Annie for no reason at all if the whim strikes him. I really doubt that. Because again, a dead, broken girl just is no fun. A living girl acting out of her own free will can offer endless hours of amusement. Coyote's so powerful that he's beyond such petty displays. He doesn't pursue power or glory, and doesn't feel hatred or remorse. Everything is a question of "is it fun?" Considering that he can deface the Moon for a whim, he could wipe out the Court or random cities with impuny. The fact that he doesn't pretty much indicates what he is and isn't willing to do for his sport.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 15, 2012 22:57:49 GMT
Antimony also has her etheric attractiveness medium thing going for her. Not sure what would happen if a random dude walked up and gave Coyote spankies but am sure Coyote would find a way to extract amusement from that situation, likely in ways dude would not like. And if dude was too boring to provide any amusement then I figure Coyote might just swat him like a pesky mosquito or have Ys do it for him.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Sept 16, 2012 3:38:54 GMT
I just had a truly nightmare-fuel visual. Ysengrin, taking a stroll through the woods -- Literally, because why not? Out of the ground behind him, Cheshire Cat-like, silently appears Coyote. And while Ysengrin's looking the other way, he reaches up and snatches a memory or thought, pops it in his mouth, "om-nom-nom," and melts back into the scenery. And on his way Poor Ysengrin goes, a few more cherries short of an apple pie, but completely oblivious.
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Post by OrzBrain on Sept 16, 2012 3:40:32 GMT
If I remember correctly Coyote brought Rey and Ys with him to the forest. Who knows if that was by choice or by force. *shrug* If Coyote forced people into doing what he wants, the entire world would be a very different place. As far as we've seen, there is nothing that could stand on his way if he wanted to have something...{Snip} Well said, Lightice, well said. I agree completely.
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Post by thesaddestface on Sept 16, 2012 4:04:59 GMT
This page was horrifying, I feel so sad for Ys. While I never thought Coyote was good I never thought he was THIS sinister.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 16, 2012 12:25:15 GMT
For people who are having trouble adjusting to Coyote's actions in this chapter, it might help to remember what he looks like in the ether.Apparently he doesn't even have a body as we understand the concept. I think it was also formspring'd that he only feels pain if he wants to. [edit] Oh yeah, I'd nearly forgotten but also this. Check out what he's doing in the lower right corner.[/edit]
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Post by darklao on Sept 17, 2012 5:10:34 GMT
People no longer invited to my Christmas party: Coyote
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 17, 2012 8:38:03 GMT
People no longer invited to my Christmas party: Coyote I dunno man, sometimes I would like nothing better than to have an ambiguous nature god take my memories away after a night of binge drinking with coworkers. That way you can clock in the next day and not know what anybody is staring at you for.
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Post by warrl on Sept 17, 2012 19:04:15 GMT
Annie has NOT seen the real Ysengrim. The real Ysengrim has been divided into pieces and a portion of it lies in how those carefully-isolated pieces interact with each other.
This is why what Coyote has done is borderline evil when done WITH informed consent. And he did it in spite of Ysengrim asking him not to.
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zolen
Junior Member
Smile, it creeps people out
Posts: 63
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Post by zolen on Sept 18, 2012 9:59:30 GMT
Everything he does is part of a plan for his own amusement. Don't put good and evil in this, he was not designed with that in mind in his stories (and it seems lazy to make him turn out to be evil), all he did in the stories was out of amusement, long ago when he started his journey, when he wanted to take on the job of the one of the other animal people he was known to be greedy, and selfish. But after the things he was forced to battle, even Thunderbird, he just got bored and more and more warped into the role of a prankster, living for his own amusement.
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Post by exdevlin on Sept 18, 2012 13:53:46 GMT
This is going to be a weird weird story if all Coyote ever wanted was for a girl to love him. ; Not even just trying to win a 'war' with the Court, just.. has been manipulating everyone to try and have a young redheaded girl come running to him (which is essentially what happened when Annie found out about the cause of her mom's death), and then keep her running back to him when others turn on her.
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Post by Per on Sept 18, 2012 16:47:22 GMT
Note that none of this changes what Jones said about him never telling a lie She said he's not a liar, which is not the same as never telling a lie.
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Post by warrl on Sept 24, 2012 7:30:22 GMT
Note that none of this changes what Jones said about him never telling a lie She said he's not a liar, which is not the same as never telling a lie. It's also not the same as never being mistaken.
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Post by diztrakted on Sept 25, 2012 5:33:54 GMT
I don't want to dredge up the morality of each side up again too much, I just want to remind everyone that the Court is "man's endeavor to become god!" The way I read it, along with the etheric experiments at the power station, is that the court is trying to concentrate the powers of the ether into a human host. Old news, yes, but that seems a little immoral to me. Also, someone said that much of what the court does could be described as self defense. Well yeah, but so was the Pacific Theater. The point is, this is a war. I really can't regard the Court as less evil; if their intentions were in any way clean they would allow more of their plans to be obvious. Heck, when it comes to the modern day court, we almost know less about it than we do of the forest.
Speaking of which, Coyote. All the nasty things that people have mentioned about the forest are actually nasty things about Coyote. The shadow people and their bigotry: Coyote made them. Ysengrin's mental instability: at least partly Coyote's fault. At this point, there's no question in my mind that the war IS perpetuated by Coyote's power. In the Court's eyes, anyone who he touches is dangerous, everything else is just a beast. Coyote likes the war, likes the manipulation, LOVES the mind games, so yes, everything the Court does is self defense in a way. And I'd say he's veeerrry interested in whether or not the Court succeeds at its stated goal. That's the reason he came to the forest in the first place; the war was an unforeseen development. But Coyote enjoys it plenty, he goes with the flow.
In other news, I'm pretty sure that Ysengrin never consented to what Coyote just did to him. Exactly what Coyote's goals are with regards to Ysengrin are anyone's guess. Really, I think he's completely inscrutable: it's been said that he's clever (I actually think he is inhumanly intelligent) and he's also a conceptual being and a creature of instinct (for fun!). All together, he has no particular plan, he simply is in the forest because the Court interests him and plays everything else by ear. He hardly knows or cares what happens to someone like Ysengrin who could not rise to his level for whatever reason, like he couldn't tell you what he'll do in the next five minutes. He'll win anyway.
Planfulness is for the boring.
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Post by coffeedog14 on Sept 26, 2012 5:23:20 GMT
I wonder if anybody else noticed: Ys does not seem suprised that this is happening. If somebody walked up to you and said "I'm gonna steal your memory", your first response would most likely be "What?". Ys does not have this response. instead he seems to immediately understand what is happening, with no confusion. This seems to have two possible answers. Firstly, that Ys has seen this happen before. secondly, that Ys has always known it is possible that Coyote might steal his memories, whether that was part of a deal or an implicit part of working with Coyote. Both disturbing.
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Post by saardvark on Apr 12, 2017 11:23:38 GMT
Was wondering why Coyote briefly "goes skeletal" in the light of the stolen memory... could it be that briefly the light of "truth" - Ys true memory of events - pierces through Coyote's disguise and shows him for the "unreal" thing he really is?
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