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Post by aaroncampbell on Jun 10, 2012 16:29:33 GMT
I'm not sure if anybody has brought this up yet, but - could the chapter title mean "Divine" in the sense of "divination" - with the notion that Zimmy's activities in this chapter were a form of divination? Yep, I've brought it up a couple of times now, and another guy has mentioned it, too. Somehow most people still don't seem to have taken notice, even though it would be a bit late for anything divine to appear. I feel bad that I hadn't noticed -- but great theory, both of/all three of you! I'm definitely on board with this interpretation of the title.
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Post by diztrakted on Jun 10, 2012 19:27:05 GMT
I was so thoroughly confused by this chapter that I went ahead and reread the entire archives. Just finished. The result is I feel much more confident about my grasp on the series... in so far as that is at all possible. Somebody speculated that the bone-prison represented Annie's rigid emotional control: she is unintentionally suffocating her inner fire elemental, and she collapsed into a coma as a consequence of trying to re-assert her "Court Annie" level of control after returning from the forest. That seems similar to your theory, but not exactly the same. I am dead sure that the mask is the symbol for her strict emotional control and her job as a medium, not the bones. To start with, Jones gave it to her on 1038, and Jones' job is to train her to be impartial. She almost lost that impartiality to Kamlen (hehe), but she held onto the mask. Zimmy figured out that within the context of her dream, breaking her cool was the way to get her out. Also, if the first pages of the chapter are anything to go by, Zimmy's not out of the woods yet. I think that these two have shared consciousness a few too many times for their own good. That being said, the bones... I'm really not sure what they are. But I am pretty sure that it is something her dad actually did to her. Or to her mother. Maybe it's why Coyote said she was more subdued than her mother. I assumed that when Jones agreed with his assessment, she meant his general influence makes her more calm, but I'm starting to think that he was actively trying to do something to the fire spirit. I don't think it was something so cruel as a removal, that would kill them. Perhaps a containment, a quarantine from the rest of her soul that would allow Surma and Antimony to live apart. Of course, it could all just be symbolic of Annie and Tony's relationship. Like the rest of the dream. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that the scar doesn't appear in the some parts of the dreams for the simple reason that those images Zimmy sees are memories of real events (Annie and Jack on the balcony, for example) and the scar doesn't appear in real life.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 10, 2012 23:06:30 GMT
I am dead sure that the mask is the symbol for her strict emotional control and her job as a medium, not the bones. Of course, it [bones] could all just be symbolic of Annie and Tony's relationship. Like the rest of the dream. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that the scar doesn't appear in the some parts of the dreams for the simple reason that those images Zimmy sees are memories of real events (Annie and Jack on the balcony, for example) and the scar doesn't appear in real life. The problem seems to be that we don't know what's real and whats metaphorical. The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that her etheric whatever actually, literally has a bone stalk growing out of it, and that's its a metaphor for her dad's absence. I think the impartiality mask theory is accurate, too. I'm just expecting some sort of bone-related surprise at the end of the chapter.
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Post by diztrakted on Jun 11, 2012 4:24:11 GMT
I'm just expecting some sort of bone-related surprise at the end of the chapter. I was feeling pretty good about parsing the whole mask thing, but I feel like an idiot for thinking theories about her dad's control were new: Well, here goes my theory. On the chapter as a whole, not only the page. [...] I think Annie's father was trying to suppress the fire elemental inside her. Why? As far as I know, fire elementals are engines of destruction, full of rage and all that. That would explain Surma and Anny's dialogue in Page 43 of Chapter S1 about the training. Got secret bonelaser training part covered in the previous thread. But the middle part would explain why the wood folk tell so many wonderful stories about them... Man, sounds like TB's kinda fed up with these theories. Well, we'll see soon enough. In other news, I... probably wasn't the first to notice this either, but Gamma left the room because Zimmy can barely access the ether AT ALL when she's nearby. Gamma's more than a tuner, she's a full on silencer. Also, I think that Zimmy and Antimony's relationship can only get better. This will work out fine. Zimmy likes a bit of fire
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 11, 2012 4:31:10 GMT
Coming in late, but I wanted to mention that Zimmy's 'as real as you let it be' philosophy does have limits, and she's aware of that: "Sometimes, I see things that ain't supposed to be there. When it gets bad, things start to change. Like, for real."
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Post by diztrakted on Jun 11, 2012 4:47:27 GMT
"Sometimes, I see things that ain't supposed to be there. When it gets bad, things start to change. Like, for real." I was thinking about that comic! Dangerous stuff, her away from Gamma. But I think that psychic throw probably forced Zimmy's consciousness back into her body; there shouldn't be any problem. Also, the chapter may end soon, but Tom's done cliffhangers before. Judging from the sense of size this chapter presents, I'd say that's possible.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 11, 2012 6:43:29 GMT
Coming in late, but I wanted to mention that Zimmy's 'as real as you let it be' philosophy does have limits, and she's aware of that: "Sometimes, I see things that ain't supposed to be there. When it gets bad, things start to change. Like, for real." I'll let other people speak for themselves but I wasn't suggesting that Zimmy thought she had everything worked out until Friday's comic. I was talking about the way Zimmy deals with the stuff she encounters when she's in other people's minds. There would probably be no consequences for Zimmy if she and Gamma wandered into an average person's mind, glopped some of their memories because they were in the way of where they wanted to walk, kicked around their dream objects out of curiosity to find out what would happen or if there were any secrets, and then inserted themselves into some enjoyable memories with a significant other. Likely Birmingham in the Gunnerverse is full of average Joes and Joanies who couldn't do anything about it and probably wouldn't even notice unless they were missing large chunks of memory. Now that she lives in the Court Zimmy might find it useful to take less confrontational routes to finding out what she wants to know. There are probably other people here besides Antimony who could do something unpleasant to mental intruders. Then again, I am not 100% sure Zimmy perceives stuff the same way we the readers do. I have asked about it in Formspring but there hasn't been a reply and I count that as a maybe. But if you want a real mind-bender, consider the following. Zimmy never sleeps. Ever since I read that chapter I have been wondering if that also means she never wakes. If an average human didn't sleep at all for years they'd become catatonic and their immune systems would experience problems, they would likely die.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 11, 2012 7:02:36 GMT
I'm just expecting some sort of bone-related surprise at the end of the chapter. I was feeling pretty good about parsing the whole mask thing, but I feel like an idiot for thinking theories about her dad's control were new: Man, sounds like TB's kinda fed up with these theories. Well, we'll see soon enough. In other news, I... probably wasn't the first to notice this either, but Gamma left the room because Zimmy can barely access the ether AT ALL when she's nearby. Gamma's more than a tuner, she's a full on silencer. Also, I think that Zimmy and Antimony's relationship can only get better. This will work out fine. Zimmy likes a bit of fire Haven't you figured it out yet? TBeholder is a level 99 dream sorcerer from the future. He has already figured out the whole comic and is just playing with us mere mortals. ;D
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 11, 2012 9:25:11 GMT
Man, sounds like TB's kinda fed up with these theories. Well, we'll see soon enough. It appeared much earlier. Look at every single thread from the start of this chapter, and you'll see it copypasted about 1d4 times per page, sometimes as an entirely new idea. So far, without a single explaination of how it makes any shred of sense even in its own context better than "uh, maybe Anthony is too oblivious to not walk into walls". Let alone fits with other alluded and confirmed details. Hence, " secret bonelaser training time... with bonelasers!" - a silly joke still making more sense than that. The usual problem with hiveminds - everyone copies and no one counts checksums, ever. Also, I think that Zimmy and Antimony's relationship can only get better. This will work out fine. Zimmy likes a bit of fire Who doesn't? Fire ees pret-tey!
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Post by Marnath on Jun 11, 2012 17:33:34 GMT
Man, sounds like TB's kinda fed up with these theories. Well, we'll see soon enough. It appeared much earlier. Look at every single thread from the start of this chapter, and you'll see it copypasted about 1d4 times per page, sometimes as an entirely new idea. So far, without a single explaination of how it makes any shred of sense even in its own context better than "uh, maybe Anthony is too oblivious to not walk into walls". Let alone fits with other alluded and confirmed details. Hence, " secret bonelaser training time... with bonelasers!" - a silly joke still making more sense than that. The usual problem with hiveminds - everyone copies and no one counts checksums, ever. Hey guys, new theory! I think Dies-Horribly is named that because he's actually horrible at dying! Wait, wrong forum.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 11, 2012 17:46:55 GMT
Hey guys, new theory! I think Dies-Horribly is named that because he's actually horrible at dying! Wait, wrong forum. If Young and Beautiful ever tries to name me, I'm packing up and moving to Alaska. ;D
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