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Post by KMar on Aug 29, 2011 18:46:23 GMT
I like how the last panel doesn't show who made the move. I would say that Jack did--if you check the perspective in panels 1 and 2, it seems that Annie hasn't moved in relation to the doorway, and Jack slid on over somewhere between panels 5 and 8. Annie doesn't seem to mind, however. I'd argue it could have been Annie, too. Or possibly both of 'em. Because... um... (10 minutes later) If perspective is consistent, then the following should apply:  I'm fairly sure about the location of the green line C in panel 2: you can count 5 vertical bars on its right side and 5 its left side. (There are 10 vertical bars in a row.) (Apparently, the camera (or “the viewpoint”) is not “straight ahead” of the center of the door in last panel, if you get what I mean. Also, the location of the green (and cyan) line in the first panel is merely a guess, yet a consistent one with other panels.) As you may notice, Annie, not Jack, has moved in relation to the line 'C'. However, there's another possibility. Let's presume that I've extrapolated the edge (line?) 'a' incorrectly. In that case, the line C should most likely be drawn between the vertical bars numbered 4 and 5 (in the last panel). That would mean that both Annie and Jack moved. Given the chance that Tom has not drawn the perspective (or the location and/or the number of the vertical bars) in a consistent manner, it can't be 100% accurately deducted whether it was Annie or Jack (or both) who moved. And, of course, I can be mistaken, too. (Q.E.D.) |
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Post by Afalstein on Aug 29, 2011 19:06:36 GMT
It seems that the Court is encouraging its students to break the rules. So they become competent adults who are capable of fending off the various hazards the Court may encounter. The fact that they didn't crack down on the students on their first night outing--Kat disabled the motion detectors but didn't know about the food-tracers--would support that theory. Kinda like Ender's Game, where the teachers design a system for the students to hack into. Mr. Eglamore's comment fits in too, though that seemed to be a more informal admission than anything. I'm commenting a lot today. I think I really like this page. |
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Post by asianborat on Aug 29, 2011 19:09:31 GMT
It seems that the Court is encouraging its students to break the rules. So they become competent adults who are capable of fending off the various hazards the Court may encounter. The fact that they didn't crack down on the students on their first night outing--Kat disabled the motion detectors but didn't know about the food-tracers--would support that theory. Kinda like Ender's Game, where the teachers design a system for the students to hack into. Mr. Eglamore's comment fits in too, though that seemed to be a more informal admission than anything. I'm commenting a lot today. I think I really like this page. I really like this theory. It paints the court in a very different (perhaps even positive?) light. But hey, nothing's black and white in gunnerkrigg court.  Edit: Mr. Eglamore's comment? Where? |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Aug 29, 2011 19:22:15 GMT
The fact that they didn't crack down on the students on their first night outing--Kat disabled the motion detectors but didn't know about the food-tracers--would support that theory. Kinda like Ender's Game, where the teachers design a system for the students to hack into. Mr. Eglamore's comment fits in too, though that seemed to be a more informal admission than anything. I'm commenting a lot today. I think I really like this page. I really like this theory. It paints the court in a very different (perhaps even positive?) light. But hey, nothing's black and white in gunnerkrigg court. Edit: Mr. Eglamore's comment? Where? Back in ch 3, after Annie judo-flipped Winsbury for messing with Kat, Eglamore told Annie that it wasn't the proper way to handle the situation, then complimented her on the throw and told her it was very noble to stick up for a friend. In ch 9, Eggers gave Annie detention for leaving school grounds--then said that if she's going to break rules, she should try harder not to get caught, pointing out that Surma didn't follow the rules when she was a Court student either. |
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Post by hargharg on Aug 29, 2011 19:34:10 GMT
... The fact that they didn't crack down on the students on their first night outing--Kat disabled the motion detectors but didn't know about the food-tracers--would support that theory. Kinda like Ender's Game, where the teachers design a system for the students to hack into. Mr. Eglamore's comment fits in too, though that seemed to be a more informal admission than anything. I'm commenting a lot today. I think I really like this page. The fact that Annie and Kat were able to explore much of the Court on their own supports it too. ; ) |
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Post by goldenknots on Aug 29, 2011 19:34:41 GMT
Edit: Mr. Eglamore's comment? Where? That would be in panel 162. |
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Aug 29, 2011 20:17:08 GMT
*grins* Ah, shipping. Why this automatic assumption that whoever Annie first kisses/dates/ends up with, will be who she stays with forever? At her age? And particularly when Tom's own writing indicates that he understands the concept of multiple consecutive loves, even multiple consecutive true loves, a subtlety of human nature which many modern writers miss completely?
tl;dr - Maybe Annie/Jack will stick, maybe it won't. I have no particular preference either way, but whoo, Carver might finally get some sugar!
Also, I had a seriously horrendous nightmare last night that the comic updated with several pages of Jack being knocked unconscious and Annie being carried off by some kind of eldritch etheric being more powerful than Coyote, so at this point as long as the next page does not involve the Attack of the Random Shadowy Mindflayer, I'm good. : [
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vollie
Junior Member
oh, triple wow!
Posts: 76
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Post by vollie on Aug 29, 2011 20:29:54 GMT
What, no possibility of a Jack story? Haha, it would be nice to finally see some forest action, though.
I can't help but think we need to see a little bit more Jack before I'll be 100% okay with the ship sailing, though. Feels like we still know him better as crazy.
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Post by todd on Aug 29, 2011 22:15:37 GMT
I'll confess that I've always had difficulty with the notion of Annie having a love interest at all; she struck me for almost all the comic as just not interested in romance and finding it almost a foreign concept. Though one of the major threads of the story is Annie "thawing out" from the seemingly emotionless and over-formal girl at the start, and falling in love would tie in with that.
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Post by drzhivago138 on Aug 29, 2011 23:41:35 GMT
I can't help but think we need to see a little bit more Jack before I'll be 100% okay with the ship sailing, though. Feels like we still know him better as crazy. Even though I'm a bit of an solid Annie/Jack shipper, I will agree with that. Perhaps Story #3 is Jack's? They might have to return to the lounge area if a criterion for a Story is that it's told to the main group. I also think that after this chapter, it would be nice to have another "plot-advancing" chapter instead of, well, non-plot-advancing chapters. Of course, it can be argued that every chapter advances the plot... |
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Aug 29, 2011 23:51:45 GMT
Part of me doubts how strong the Surma parallels actually are. Apart from Anja as Surma's friend, nothing else seems to really fit. Jack COULD be a future court guardian, but there hasn't been any hint at it (and he's not in good standing with the court). And Reynardine has no parallel whatsoever. Indeed, most of Annie's non-human friends fit nowhere into the Surma story. In some ways Annie is very unlike Surma, and she certainly doesn't seem as loyal to the Court as Surma was. ^This. Leave aside all of the shipping issues or whatnot, Annie is already a very different person from Surma. She's been influenced by Surma, yes--but she's also been influenced by Anthony and then having to grow up without Surma and, later, without Anthony. Her development at the Court is already quite different from Surma's too. As mentioned, Surma ultimately strung Rey along on orders from the Court. Annie has already shown that she distrusts the figures of authority in the Court and leans heavily more toward the Wood--and has spent an entire summer there having her character affected by even more influences. Even Annie's friendship with Kat isn't exactly what she had with Surma at that stage. The flashback into their early Court says showed Surma as the extroverted one in their relationship, while in the early stages Annie was reserved while Kat was the one trying to bring her out of her shell. Literary standpoint or not, Annie's story is already quite a different one from Surma's. To me, at least, having her replicate or imitate exactly Surma's relationships cheapens it a bit. |
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Post by warrl on Aug 30, 2011 1:09:52 GMT
That's for the two designated 'weird' kids in the comic, huh? The two designated 'weird' kids?  - Zimmy - leaks the zimmyverse
- Gamma - telepathic with Zimmy and calms her
- Janet/Willy - magical archery skillz (no pair of archers are good enough in real life to cause one arrow to split another arrow in flight, reliably, on one attempt - particularly not with at least one of them doing a sudden change of aim to make it happen)
- Parley - teleports
- Jack - magic leaping, technomancy
- Kat - another technomancer
- Andrew - magically imposes order
- Margo - able to levitate while drawing
- Paz - speaker to animals
- Annie - fire magic, animated-stuffed-animal familiar, comfortable with supernatural beings
(and I'm sure I'm forgetting some) How did some two of these get designated as weird, as compared to the others? ----------------------- Regarding who moved: Insufficient evidence. Chalk it up to lack of preservation of artistic detail and feel free to think, if so inclined, that Tom just shoved them together in the last panel for better artistic layout and they are still a yard apart. After all, if you compare where the sides of their bodies are relative to the posts in the railing in panels 5 and 8, neither has moved. Or, equally validly, pick one and say that one moved. Or say both moved. Or Bud pulled a prank and warped space between them. There is no solid evidence. |
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Post by Eversist on Aug 30, 2011 1:13:44 GMT
What, no possibility of a Jack story? I'm actually hoping for this. A little taste of the forest in the form of a three to four paged short story will only leave us wanting much more.  -- Why do people assume that since Bud is more than competent in the ether, that his wife would be, too? That doesn't make much sense at all. That's like assuming that all humans can utilize the ether just because Anja can. Edit: What's up with everybody still speculating on Paz and Kat? That argument was for the last page. Literally one person mentioned Paz in this whole thread. I think you are mistaking Annie/Kat conversation for Kat/Paz. X3 EditEdit: Margo - able to levitate while drawing Wat. |
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Post by smjjames on Aug 30, 2011 2:01:35 GMT
[/li][li]Janet/Willy - magical archery skillz (no pair of archers are good enough in real life to cause one arrow to split another arrow in flight, reliably, on one attempt - particularly not with at least one of them doing a sudden change of aim to make it happen) [/quote] It could also be by chance, but the probability is so incredibly low that it might as well be zero. [/li][li]Margo - able to levitate while drawing.[/quote] Show us that, I'm pretty sure she didn't do that. Theres also the various kids who were once magical creatures and animals. Before the current generation, theres: - Eglamore- Various superhuman abilities
- Anja- Purple shield, and some kind of etheric sense, technomancer.
- Donny- Probably technomancer.
- Jones- ???refer to the list of 1,000 theories on what she is???
- Surma- Fire magic, various etheric abilities.
- Thorn- Old dragonslayer (deceased or simply retired?), mentor to Eglamore, certainly had the same abilities of the job, which Eglamore later took up.
And centuries back:
- Diego- He could be labelled THE origional technomancer in GC.
I'm sure there are others with unusual abilities in Diegos time, we just have very little information to go on. |
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Post by horerczy on Aug 30, 2011 3:33:39 GMT
Y'know the more I look at this page the more I wanna know what Jack said to Annie with the 'no' part of her speech bubble.
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Post by smjjames on Aug 30, 2011 4:25:26 GMT
Y'know the more I look at this page the more I wanna know what Jack said to Annie with the 'no' part of her speech bubble. What page are you talking about? |
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Post by horerczy on Aug 30, 2011 4:51:36 GMT
Y'know the more I look at this page the more I wanna know what Jack said to Annie with the 'no' part of her speech bubble. What page are you talking about? This page's first panel. her opening comment on the panel "No, bud can still see us." What is it that Jack asked her exactly or what were their exact plans. Seems to me that either they were trying to get away from prying eyes or that jack was simply curious about the distance bud can project himself. |
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Post by Ashley Y on Aug 30, 2011 5:40:46 GMT
Oh, Annie, you're such a flirt.
Assuming KMar's awesome graphical projection analysis is correct, of course.
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Post by smjjames on Aug 30, 2011 7:04:44 GMT
What page are you talking about? This page's first panel. her opening comment on the panel "No, bud can still see us." What is it that Jack asked her exactly or what were their exact plans. Seems to me that either they were trying to get away from prying eyes or that jack was simply curious about the distance bud can project himself. Could be both reasons, and to get some privacy from the others. I wonder if that building is a dorm or a hotel or something? It seems pretty well maintained, if old. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 30, 2011 7:17:30 GMT
Literary standpoint or not, Annie's story is already quite a different one from Surma's. To me, at least, having her replicate or imitate exactly Surma's relationships cheapens it a bit. Parallel isn't the same thing as xerox. Antimony seems to be going a bit farther with the mysteries of the Court than her mother did; there may be something meaningful in that progression. For example, Surma and Anja made robots together and found "Jeanne's tomb" but couldn't get them to work. Jack COULD be a future court guardian, but there hasn't been any hint at it (and he's not in good standing with the court). And Reynardine has no parallel whatsoever. Eggers had that fistfight with Hyland. Agree about Reynard as far as the triangle theory goes, he is a nonfactor. Leave aside all of the shipping issues or whatnot, Annie is already a very different person from Surma. She's been influenced by Surma, yes--but she's also been influenced by Anthony and then having to grow up without Surma and, later, without Anthony. Her development at the Court is already quite different from Surma's too. Is disagree. Surma must've had to grow up without her mother as well, as did all the women in her line. Antimony is being groomed for the same position in the same place as Surma. [As mentioned, Surma ultimately strung Rey along on orders from the Court. Annie has already shown that she distrusts the figures of authority in the Court and leans heavily more toward the Wood--and has spent an entire summer there having her character affected by even more influences. Even Annie's friendship with Kat isn't exactly what she had with Surma at that stage. The flashback into their early Court says showed Surma as the extroverted one in their relationship, while in the early stages Annie was reserved while Kat was the one trying to bring her out of her shell. We don't have Surma at age 12 for comparison with Antimony at 12 at the beginning of GC so her introversion level then is unknown. Antimony is becoming more outgoing as she gets older, it seems. There is also Eggers' speech about Surma not always following the rules but being more careful not to get caught. We do know that Surma spent a lot of time in the Wood but we don't know if she actually lived there. If not, it's another example of progress. [sidenote]Is too early/late to drop in links to all the comic references and formspring answers and test them now so I will edit them in later. Apologies, genteel forum readers.[/sidenote] |
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Post by King Mir on Aug 30, 2011 8:15:47 GMT
There is no parallel between the other Surma's group friends and Annie's. Any attempt at one to one correlation quickly falls apart. You can name traits in Surma's friends, and identify which of annie's has each one, but you won't get any kind 1 to 1 correspondence. It doesn't help that we don't actually know that much about Surma's school years.
I do agree that there is some similarities between Annie and Surma, but there are stark differences too. How much Annie channels Surma is a major theme of this comic. From the first time Reynardine called Annie Surma in Reynardine, to Mr. Donoland's remark "It's as if Surma has come back to us" in Of new and old, to Coyote making the same mistake ans Rey in Fangs of summer time, then the depictions of Surma in S1 and Ties, then of Course everything that happened in Fire Spike, and then her interaction with Renard in From the Forest she came. In all this I see as many differences as similarities. Not the least of these is her relationship to Renard. One hopes that she will have the best qualities of her mother, her father, and as a product of her own unique experiences.
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Post by fronzel on Aug 30, 2011 8:19:14 GMT
I really like this theory. It paints the court in a very different (perhaps even positive?) light. But hey, nothing's black and white in gunnerkrigg court. Edit: Mr. Eglamore's comment? Where? Back in ch 3, after Annie judo-flipped Winsbury for messing with Kat, Eglamore told Annie that it wasn't the proper way to handle the situation, then complimented her on the throw and told her it was very noble to stick up for a friend. In ch 9, Eggers gave Annie detention for leaving school grounds--then said that if she's going to break rules, she should try harder not to get caught, pointing out that Surma didn't follow the rules when she was a Court student either. I always thought that was Eggs blatantly showing favoritism to the child of the woman he loved because he wishes he was her dad. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 30, 2011 10:54:50 GMT
There is no parallel between the other Surma's group friends and Annie's. Any attempt at one to one correlation quickly falls apart. You can name traits in Surma's friends, and identify which of annie's has each one, but you won't get any kind 1 to 1 correspondence... I do agree that there is some similarities between Annie and Surma, but there are stark differences too... Not even between Surma/Anja and Antimony/Kat? Maybe I should back up a bit and explain what I mean by a literary parallel. Parallel doesn't mean identical or interchangeable. It simply means comparable, having aspects that are analogous, perhaps recognizable similarities. In the loosest sense of the definition every minor character is parallel to a major character in a fictional narrative because they play off the major characters and help define them, allow them to develop and advance the plot. I am not saying Mr. Siddell stamps his plots out cookie cutter and therefore I know everything that will happen in Antimony's love life because we know some stuff about what happened with Surma. I am just saying that I think we can make a general prediction about how said love life will develop based on comparison with similar characters in similar situations. That is even more the case with Antimony and Surma. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Fire is the real life form and the human women who bear it are incidental. If we were near the end of the story I might buy a simplistic linear development of "AnnieXJack" but I think even if they have a stormy off-again on-again relationship there's just too many blank pages left for that to be interesting without some outside competition. As for how that will be resolved, if it will be resolved before the story ends, I think the parallels and the general nature of young romance [that is to say, early teen romances ending as fast as they begin and longer-lasting more adult relationships following] stack the odds strongly against Jack and Antimony walking into the sunset holding hands at the end of the last book. As for all the twists and turns along the path, I have no guesses yet and I plan to read of them online along with the rest of you. |
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Post by King Mir on Aug 30, 2011 15:43:07 GMT
Not even between Surma/Anja and Antimony/Kat? Ok, perhaps excepting that duo. I agree that the comparison to the previous generation is not to be ignored. However, I would not say it has much predictive power. I do agree with your conclusion here. Annie's love life isn't going to be simple. I just disagree with the evidence you choose to support it. |
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marv
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by marv on Aug 30, 2011 16:12:02 GMT
page's first panel. her opening comment on the panel "No, bud can still see us." What is it that Jack asked her exactly or what were their exact plans. Heh. Maybe Jack said "hey baby, let's  ", and she said "no, bud can still see us". |
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Post by Eversist on Aug 30, 2011 17:58:16 GMT
I wonder if that building is a dorm or a hotel or something? It seems pretty well maintained, if old. If the Court is "growing" from the seed Bismuth as some have speculated, maybe it just maintains itself. Seems like most of the buildings in the court are uninhabited, as it is. Also, robots. |
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 30, 2011 18:18:16 GMT
If you're only here for the lesbians go read Curvy or something. Otherwise just let Tom get on with his story. I'm sorry it's not edgy or non-PC enough for you.
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Post by smjjames on Aug 30, 2011 19:23:33 GMT
If you're only here for the lesbians go read Curvy or something. Otherwise just let Tom get on with his story. I'm sorry it's not edgy or non-PC enough for you. You're kind of late for the troll bashing..... |
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 30, 2011 22:48:24 GMT
You're kind of late for the troll bashing..... I know, I'd only read the 1st page and forgot to read the rest of the thread Oh well. |
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Post by basser on Aug 30, 2011 23:16:46 GMT
Loving the seamless transition from lesbian confusion to sloppy makeouts on the roof. JACK YOU ARE ONE SMOOTH OPERATOR.
Although Annie being able to 'see' Bud makes me imagine there's probably a little ghost crab hovering nearby from her perspective, which somewhat reduces the possibility of any romantic shenanigans.
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", and she said "no, bud can still see us". 
