Reynardine

[La Goon]

I’m a bit surprised not to find a thread dedicated to Reynardine on this forum. If there actually is one that I just couldn’t find, this one can just be deleted.

So - there was some discussion (or well, someone asking) somewhere (I don’t remember where, and I can’t find it again) regarding why Reynardine didn’t try to snatch Annie’s body on the roof in the beginning of chapter three, and why Eglamore apparently didn’t need any protection against an attempt to snatch his body (like sunglasses or something).

The first one: Maybe such a body change is a rather energy consuming action, and Reynardine was a bit low on energy after breaking out of his jail and all...

Then why didn’t Eglamore need to protect his eyes when he was interrogating Reynardine (or whatever to call it) - I think maybe that could have something to do with lead (the main reason I started writing this)

Of course there’s loads of other things to discuss about Reynardine, and a lot of it probably already is scattered around the forum, but I’m new here (and also a bit lazy), so I wouldn’t try to sum it all up.

So - any comments on that?

[Count Casimir]

I'm pretty sure there's a Rey thread around here somewhere...I believe you'll find most of those explanations if you dig around on the Alchemy thread and the like. Welcome, though!

[La Goon]

Thank you.

I did search but found only this one

gunnerkrigg.proboards75.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1175664150&page=1

Which isn't really about Reynardine.

And I have stumbled upon a bunch of speculations about him here and there. Just thought it would be easier with those in one thread - and if the Tic Tocs can have theirs, Rey certainly deserve his own too.

(also I coulsn't find a proper place to post my lead thought - but now I think about it, the Alchemy thread would probably have been fine for that)

[La Goon]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about is, if this body snatching is a original part of Reynardine’s nature, and whether he is a unique being (as it’s mostly implied), or he’s just one of something rather common.

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=108

Maybe I’m putting too much into Eglamore’s choice of words, when he describes Reynardine as a “criminal”. Isn’t that a bit of a strange term to use if taking over other bodies and leaving them dead when going on is a natural part of his existence?

To me it implies that Rey at some point has chosen that "way of life", but then what was he before that? Human? Some kind of spirit? A fairy?

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=97

"The Great". That sounds like the byname of some king or emperor or something. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a demon that needed a byname like that. A demon’s name should be enough in itself, right?

So could he have been some mad king, emperor, baron or whatever who wasn’t satisfied with what he had and wanted eternal life and power?

Hmm, is this "Wild Speculations"? Oh well, it has some sort of foundation, and I made the thread, so I'd better use it for something

[mrw]

lagoon said:

I’m a bit surprised not to find a thread dedicated to Reynardine on this forum. If there actually is one that I just couldn’t find, this one can just be deleted.

So - there was some discussion (or well, someone asking) somewhere (I don’t remember where, and I can’t find it again) regarding why Reynardine didn’t try to snatch Annie’s body on the roof in the beginning of chapter three, and why Eglamore apparently didn’t need any protection against an attempt to snatch his body (like sunglasses or something).

The first one: Maybe such a body change is a rather energy consuming action, and Reynardine was a bit low on energy after breaking out of his jail and all...

Then why didn’t Eglamore need to protect his eyes when he was interrogating Reynardine (or whatever to call it) - I think maybe that could have something to do with lead (the main reason I started writing this)

It just occurred to me that maybe this is why Eglamore wore that bulky scarf - he could quickly cover his eyes if needed. It seems like Reynardine may die if he is unable to inhabit a new body, which would make even attempting to take over Eglamore very very risky.

Of course there’s loads of other things to discuss about Reynardine, and a lot of it probably already is scattered around the forum, but I’m new here (and also a bit lazy), so I wouldn’t try to sum it all up.

So - any comments on that?

Well, yes there has been a lot of discussion on Reynardine, but it looks like you'll have to do a lot of forum reading to find it. Because everybody else is lazy too.

Also, I think activity in this thread will pick up markedly once a story arc involving Rey is under way again. So don't feel ignored.

[fuzzysocks]

lagoon said:

Another thing I’ve been thinking about is, if this body snatching is a original part of Reynardine’s nature, and whether he is a unique being (as it’s mostly implied), or he’s just one of something rather common.

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=108

Maybe I’m putting too much into Eglamore’s choice of words, when he describes Reynardine as a “criminal”. Isn’t that a bit of a strange term to use if taking over other bodies and leaving them dead when going on is a natural part of his existence?

To me it implies that Rey at some point has chosen that "way of life", but then what was he before that? Human? Some kind of spirit? A fairy?

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=97

"The Great". That sounds like the byname of some king or emperor or something. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a demon that needed a byname like that. A demon’s name should be enough in itself, right?

So could he have been some mad king, emperor, baron or whatever who wasn’t satisfied with what he had and wanted eternal life and power?

Hmm, is this "Wild Speculations"? Oh well, it has some sort of foundation, and I made the thread, so I'd better use it for something

I think you may be on to something... after all, didn't Reynardine say that guy in the woods was his brother?

Obviously he had to have some substantial form of existence right?

[La Goon]

fuzzysocks said:

... after all, didn't Reynardine say that guy in the woods was his brother?

Not brother, cousin. And it isn't really clear who he is referring to.

www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=227

Man, I must have been really tired the first time I read that page since I didn't pick up "cousin" as something interesting

However, there is some speculation about that subject in this thread:

gunnerkrigg.proboards75.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1175837645

PS: How do you guys post links without the URL being shown in the text but marked by something you write yourself?

[owl]

I love Rey...*huggles Rey* I love demons that help the good guys, so there you go...

and to make a word-link, you say: TEXT

Without the space, of course.

[AluK]

Ever watched Chrono Crusade, Owl? Something tells me you'll like it.

Regarding our infamous werefox, The Great Reynardine, he seems to be based around a ballad, too.

[owl]

Ooh. I knew that he was in a ballad, but I don't think I'd seen the words....

"Brought up in Venus' train", eh? That's....interesting...

And nope, never seen Chrono Crusade. Why? has it got double-dealing demons? (Hooray, alliteration!)

[todd]

So the parallel to the ballad would probably be Reynardine trying to dupe Annie in Chapter Three into thinking him a good guy so that he can lure her close enough to himself to attempt to possess her (which might be interpreted as a metaphor for rape - given that Annie's around 11 or 12, that would make it especially creepy).

Fortunately, I don't think that Reynardine will be able to dupe Annie again - or at least, not for a very long time. Not unless he goes through the motions of behaving himself so well that she thinks that he's reformed - and then discovers that that's what he wanted her to think.

[owl]

Uh...okay, so thi sreally has nothing to do with the discussion, but it's 3 am and I just composed a son gin my head about Rey and I don't want to forget it.

A fox jumps out of the rainy sky
Mercury burning in his eye.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Look into his eyes and soon you'll see
What the joy of a fox can be.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Sees a girl and another too
Antimony bright and Katerina true
He calls to them "Stop!"
But they cannot hear
All caught up in eachother's fear

Reynardine, Reynardine
Look into his eyes and soon you'll see
What the joy of a fox can be.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Sees a girl and another too
Zimmy dark and Gamma true
He calls to them "Stop!"
But they cannot hear
All caught up in another's fear.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Look into his eyes and soon you'll see
What the joy of a fox can be.

Renardine, Reynardine
Sees a girl and another too
Fairies small
One red, one blue
He calls to them "Stop!"
But they cannot hear
All caught up in their lack of fear.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Look into his eyes and soon you'll see
What the joy of a fox can be.

Reynardine, Reynardine
Sees himself, and another too
He calls to them "Stop!"
But he cannot hear...
He's all caught up
Caught....caught up
He's far too caught up in himself and his fear.

(Yeah, I know, bits of it don't make much sense, but heck, it's three am. Gimme a break!)

[UbiquitousDragon]

Hm. Just rereading parts of GC, but it's so pleasurable to do so, and when Rey is revealed to Anja, Donald (Mr. Donlan, cruel parents calling their kid Donald Donlan) and Eglamore he refers to Anja as "child", here, very much like he does when talking to Annie, but Anja is far older than Annie, having gone to school with both Annie's parents. So, I wonder: just how old is our lovely Reynardine?

[Mezzaphor]

Good catch there, Ubiquitous.

I've been wondering how Annie's control over Rey works. We know that he can't take any new bodies without Annie's permission. We also know that, prior to receiving any orders from Annie, he was able to sabotage the science fair because Annie had never ordered him not to do so. it would also seem that he is required to explain the details of ownership to Annie. (Were I to find myself under the ownership of someone who had reason to be be ticked at me, I certainly wouldn't voluntarily explain the situation to my owner.)

What confuses me is this: Most of Annie's commands Rey obeys, even when they're against his wishes, but here and here he disobeys Annie's orders to talk. Why is that the exception?

[Count Casimir]

That might just be one of the little facets. She can control his actions in a roundabout sort of way, but she has no control over his tongue (except to forbid him from using it).

[Tom Siddell]

Annie's current contract of control over Reynardine is only over his physical actions. So she can make him shut up, or start talking, but she can't tell him what to say or think.

As an aside, he also cannot lie to her.

[jolt]

In the long term, I wonder if Annie can redeem Reynardine. His character seems to have changed somewhat since his newest imprisionment...but then again, he was so charming at the start...

____________________________
ellysiansails.googlepages.com/home
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[breakfast]

Another version of the Reynardine ballad, slightly better known than The Mountains High linked above although similar in places. Most traditional songs turn up in various versions from various people. This one can be found in numerous recorded versions, the one I know best comes from Fairport Convention.

Reynardine

One evening as I rambled
Among the leaves so green
I overheard a young woman
Converse with Reynardine

Her hair was black, her eyes were blue
Her lips as red as wine
And he smiled to gaze upon her
Did that sly old Reynardine

She said, "Kind sir, be civil
My company forsake
For in my own opinion
I fear you are some rake"

"Oh no," he said, "no rake am I
Brought up in Venus' train
But I'm seeking for concealment
All along the lonesome plain"

"Your beauty so enticed me
I could not pass it by
So it's with my gun I'll guard you
All on the mountains high"

"And if by chance you should look for me
Perhaps you'll not me find
For I'll be in my castle
Inquire for Reynardine"

Sun and dark, she followed him
His teeth did brightly shine
And he led her up a-the mountains
Did that sly old Reynardine

-- traditional

[Cassiopea The Grande]

Ray-Nar-Dine? I have been pronouncing it Ray-Nar-Deen this whole time!

[rastarogue]

I have been thinking about why Reynardie didn't posses Annie when he first met her and here is my conclusion: If you want to fight a PE teacher dressed up in archaic armor you don't do it in the body of a little girl, you do it from the largest body you can find, even if it is wounded. If he had taken Annies body then he would have just ended up in jail again with no chance of escape. However, by waiting he has the chance to escape when he is fighting Eglamore, and he has a chance, on a guess, that Annie will try to come and find him. And, if you want to escape by sneaking through a school, do you want the huge body of a Rogat Orjak or the body of somebody who can actually walk through the halls and use the head injury as an excuse to do all sorts of horrible mischief.

So by not Taking Annies body at first, he gives himself much better odds to Escape in the long run.

[era]

fyi reynardine's name is based off of reynard the fox, a commonly used character from european folklore. I think its french, or originated in france since reynard has been found in liturature across europe.

[Mezzaphor]

rastarogue said:

I have been thinking about why Reynardie didn't posses Annie when he first met her and here is my conclusion: If you want to fight a PE teacher dressed up in archaic armor you don't do it in the body of a little girl, you do it from the largest body you can find, even if it is wounded. If he had taken Annies body then he would have just ended up in jail again with no chance of escape. However, by waiting he has the chance to escape when he is fighting Eglamore, and he has a chance, on a guess, that Annie will try to come and find him. And, if you want to escape by sneaking through a school, do you want the huge body of a Rogat Orjak or the body of somebody who can actually walk through the halls and use the head injury as an excuse to do all sorts of horrible mischief.

So by not Taking Annies body at first, he gives himself much better odds to Escape in the long run.

Also, if you look at page 45 (panel 7) and page 52, it appears Rey was using Annie in an attempt to catch Eglamore off-guard and take his body.

Also also, Rey was grieving for Surma on page 45. Since no one else was around at that moment, I think it was sincere.

[rastarogue]

I don't know, when I read that I got the impression that he genuinly cares about what happens to Annie, though whether that is because she is a little girl or because she is Surma's daughter, or he is setting up another escape attempt I am not so sure. And on 52 I got the impression he was mad at being called a coward (Hiding behind a little girl). I believe that the reason he kept the conversation with Annie going, after he found out she wasn't Surma, was to find out what had happened to Surma, not to hide behind Annie.

[Mezzaphor]

Here's a thought: The large animal pen where Rey was confined must have had some magical pest barrier to keep the mice and bugs out. Otherwise, Rey would have escaped by possessing a roach and crawling away.

[aoeniac]

So... do ya think Reynardine's "fool cousin" is the general or the coyote? I'm leaning towards the coyote, because I think Reynardine may have been speaking literally when he called him a FOOL cousin.

Which begs the question, was possessed Robot reaching for Reynardine to kill him, or to bring him back to the forest?

And what happened between Reynardine and the forest people?

[javajesus]

I'm also curious as to the nature of the relationship between Reynardine and Zimmy. As seen on pages 80 and 82, Reynardine really seems to dislike her, although no real reason is given.

[fuzzysocks]

mezzaphor said:

Here's a thought: The large animal pen where Rey was confined must have had some magical pest barrier to keep the mice and bugs out. Otherwise, Rey would have escaped by possessing a roach and crawling away.

Or maybe he thinks he's too good for a roach?
I mean as a roach I would imagine it would be kind of hard afterwards to possess anything else... with the whole being squashed before you look into it's eyes thing...

[spritznar]

you know, i hadn't thought of reynardine using the literal term "fool" before. i'm leaning towards ysengrin being the cousin though cause he's the one who seems to be pressing to "retaliate".

although i suppose coyote could be working behind the scenes, he is a tricky one :-P

[owl]

From wikipedia:

"Ysengrimus is a Latin fabliau and mock epic, an anthropomorphic series of fables written in 1148 or 1149 by the poet Nivardus. Its chief character is Ysengrimus the Wolf, and it describes how his various schemes are overcome by the trickster figure Reinardus the Fox.
In the opening episode of Ysengrimus, the wolf manages to successfully deceive the fox by one of his schemes; this is Ysengrimus's only triumph, and throughout the remaining episodes Ysengrimus is constantly being tricked or humiliated by Reinardus. The poem contains the well known story in which Reinardus deceives Ysengrimus to go ice fishing using his tail as a net, only to get it frozen into the lake. When Reinardus mockingly urges Ysengrimus to get up quickly, Ysengrimus is made to say:
Captus ad hec captor: "Nescis quid, perfide, dicas
Clunibus impendet Scotia tota meis."
(The prisoner said this to his captor: "You don't know what you're saying, deceiver. I have all of Scotland hanging from my buttocks.")
Ysengrimus is usually held to be an allegory for the corrupt monks of the Roman Catholic Church. His greed is what typically causes him to be led astray. He is made to make statements such as "commit whatever sins you please; you will be absolved if you can pay." He comes to a grisly end in the ending of the poem: stripped of his skin and thrown to the swine. Reinardus, by contrast, represents the poor and the lowly; he triumphs over Ysengrimus by his wits."

Hm. So I'm going to say that Ysengrim is indeed his cousin - and that he's getting very, very tired of being made a literal "fool" of by Reinardus - I mean, Reynardine.

[Hazel]

Ahem. Excuse me. I would have thought that panel #2 of this strip (and panel #1 of the next) had pretty much completely cleared the question of the cousin's identity. *shrugs* To each their own.