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Post by King Mir on Mar 3, 2011 19:38:27 GMT
Well, yes, she is Surma's daughter. It could be assumed that Annie is pretty too, and that is something that these two people have in common. Go Coyote. I took that as a joke, rather than fact. Coyote is quite the jokester. Yes, he was jovially accusing Rey of being enamoured with Annie. Not really, given how he phrased himself. As a reason for staying, he says that he loves Surma. Then he says "Besides", and makes a second excuse for staying, namely to look after Annie. He doesn't say that he loved surma, and therefore wants too look after her. Closer to 1 year. I agree that how he looks at Annie has changed, but not so dramatically that his old behavior has no relation to his current role. It's not like there was a time when he woke up one morning, decided "I'm going to be her father now", and abandoned all naughty buisness. No need to get defensive. I'm not accusing you of anything.
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Post by Eversist on Mar 3, 2011 19:47:14 GMT
I just think you're reading too much into the camera angles and stuff. Yes, Tom meant something subliminal by showing Rey looking at Annie when he said "And those feelings haven't changed," but again, I read that as "I still love your mother, so I feel an obligation to look after you."
I don't think Tom needs to spell it out for us. He cared for her mother, therefore he cares about her offspring. Don't you think it'd be kinda strange if he was head-over-heels for her mother, and would just shift his emotions like that to her daughter? That just doesn't seem realistic to me at this point in time... kinda icky, like others have been implying.
If you're not cool with paternal/fatherly, would brotherly suit better, like jandor just said? The one time Rey was asking Kat about if "any boy had caught her eye," that read brotherly concern to me (although I'm sure it read the opposite to you).
She's still 13-14.
And I'm not getting defensive. I see how you could read anger or whatever in that, but there was none intended.
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Post by King Mir on Mar 3, 2011 20:55:30 GMT
I just think you're reading too much into the camera angles and stuff. Yes, Tom meant something subliminal by showing Rey looking at Annie when he said "And those feelings haven't changed," but again, I read that as "I still love your mother, so I feel an obligation to look after you." It might feel right to you that Rey would say what you believe he feels, but that's not what the dialog actually says. He is saying he loves Annie. And that's why Annie responds "I love you too." I don't think Rey's caring for Annie is due to any responsibility he feals toward Surma. If it were, then it would have always been the same level of care from the start, not as you have just argued, a shift over they year. No, fatherly is definately closer than brotherly. Good point about Kat's line though. When people start saying "It's my opinion" I call that being defensive.
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Post by Eversist on Mar 3, 2011 21:15:24 GMT
I never said that's not what he said. Of course that's what he's saying, and my argument is that it's paternal or familial love.
I don't think that's a valid argument at all. He didn't know Annie from Jack (hurhur) at that point. Getting to know Annie, in conjunction with her being Surma's daughter, caused the shift in feelings and his treatment of Annie.
You had said "I don't think it's right," which means "everyone else is wrong," rather than "It's my opinion that Rey is more than a surrogate father to Annie," or whatever your opinion is. I guess I did get a little defensive about your wording.
Let's agree to disagree, eh?
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Post by jasmijn on Mar 3, 2011 22:10:31 GMT
And then there are pages like this and this, where Rey behaves in ways a father never would. Cut Rey some slack in the second one, please. How would you act if a 12(?)-year-old with magical powers over you (remember, he has to do as she tells him, because the toy is hers) treated you like a small child, parental feelings or not?
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Post by King Mir on Mar 3, 2011 22:25:36 GMT
I never said that's not what he said. Of course that's what he's saying, and my argument is that it's paternal or familial love. I'm just saying that wholely paternal love doesn't fit the bill of 'I loved surma and I still do". Right, so it is not true that he wants to stay with Annie out of obligation toward Surma. I say Rey Tried to poses Annie! He knew she was Surma's daughter then too. If anything from Surma makes Rey want to stay with Annie, it is her likeness. Heh. Emotions are hard to convey online. I didn't feel it needed a "it's my opinion." Of course it's my opinion: I said it. I was already being redundant by saying "I think", but I included that precisely to emphasize that I am not totally confident about it. Sorry for any missunderstanding.
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Post by King Mir on Mar 3, 2011 22:37:22 GMT
And then there are pages like this and this, where Rey behaves in ways a father never would. Cut Rey some slack in the second one, please. How would you act if a 12(?)-year-old with magical powers over you (remember, he has to do as she tells him, because the toy is hers) treated you like a small child, parental feelings or not? Hey, I didn't say I disaproved. Asking if the girls would kiss was hilarious. Just not fatherly.
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Post by todd on Mar 3, 2011 23:19:51 GMT
Annie's offer to free Reynardine is probably one of her most courageous acts. It's been pointed out here that as long as she has a hold over him, the Court can't expell her for all the trouble she's gotten into (and gotten it into) because they need to keep an eye on him, which they can't do if she leaves (unless she leaves him behind, which could break her hold over him and allow him to escape his stuffed doll body). But if Annie lets him go back to the forest, she loses that safeguard (and the Court will be all the angrier with her over that on top of everything else she did). I don't know if she weighed that before she made that offer or not, but it's still impressive, in light of what the probable consequences would be for her.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 4, 2011 6:20:30 GMT
I'd rather call acceptance. Seeing how they admit going over the top, mutually. Punishments? Maybe not. However, I imagine there will be resentment and suspicion from some people, and she will probably be watched closely by the court. This mostly depends on how she's going to present it. Or more likely how Jones already did. Also, I know it has been stated to death after we saw her two pages ago, but Annie really has matured from her time in the forest. She also seems to be more open, more willing to talk and be emotional (although this is Renard she is talking too). Why, some people - i'm not pointing a charged eyestalk at anyone - doubted it. What with distracting forest clothes and all that. The ability to discuss important things in a plain and articulated way (without stammering, bleating or hissyfits), though, i count as a part of the whole "maturity" set, not "also". Love? Like, love-love? That's the question... Shippers ahoy! Hard agh starboard! Load all tubes! Play the theme music! ;D I'm skeptical as if he actually intended to do this Oh! It's an old issue here - if not above-average overall sanity level, would be a full-on holywar. There's even the separate big thread. When it sinks to the second page, someone inevitably brings this up, the link is posted, it flares once more, then sinks... etc. So Annie offered to completely release Renard in defiance of the Court, and he turned it down. Highly unsurprised. Renard liked human company to begin with. Now he refused to pay for living in his own body with leaving the Court indefinitely (he won't be allowed to roam around if not bound). Look through his eyes. The fox-body is preserved by godly magic. Expectations: this isn't going to change soon, in few decades James will retire, while Annie and Kat will have a say in the Court's affairs. So this only means he doesn't miss his true form too much. Annie? She matured, indeed. Thus, leaving matters this important hanging on "never too late" is not an option anymore. Yes, and remember how he was acting like her father (admittedly with disastrous results) in the last chapter? In the last chapter? He came to terms with "Annie is the daughter of Carver" quicker than James - specifically by becoming substitute parent. See his interaction with hecklers and 'Grin. Anthony: How dare you act so familiar with my daughter, demon. Dunno, to me he seems to be smarter than this. And most likely kept clear of Annie because he couldn't deal with the situation and knew this.
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Post by stitches on Mar 4, 2011 7:06:22 GMT
Wanted to mention this earlier but forgot about it..
It seems to me that Antimony's had quite a lot of discussions about Renard while she was in the forest, since she now refers to him as Renard, and not Surma's pet name Reynardine (noone else would use this). She must know a LOT more about him than she did before she left, and sees him in a different light now, and probably understands much more about who he really is.
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Post by Max on Mar 4, 2011 7:53:02 GMT
She's called him Renard all through Chapter 31, starting with page 4
By the way, I noticed as I was setting up the new thread for 851 that this page has disappeared. ETA: It's back now. Must have been a fluke.
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Post by baconqueen on Mar 26, 2011 2:52:59 GMT
Okay, when I first read the comic all the way through to the current page, I was of fangirl mentality and thought about pairing the two up. When I read through it again, I began to really see their feelings. My personal opinion of Rey's feelings is that he loved Surma, romantically. My next thought is that some of that love is placed onto Annie because she is Surma's daughter and literally "has the same fire". I'm not saying the two are romantically in love, more that Rey is mixing up his feelings for Surma and Annie. I think as of now, Rey is finally getting that. Whether or not he will change his relationship with Annie, is up to him.
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Post by King Mir on Mar 26, 2011 16:39:45 GMT
I don't think he will try to change that, but i do think their relationship will continue to evolve.
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Post by inkrunnercoon12 on Jul 31, 2011 1:41:08 GMT
my thoughts 1. Most anticlimactic profession of love, ever! 2. I don't think Reynardine and Annie's "love for each other" is romantic, parental, or friendship. I think its bascally a sweet and affectionate kind of love that is a mix between all three. Just pure, true, unsaturated love. 3. If you ask me, Reynardine traded up. Surma was being a bitch to him. 4. DAWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! *cries*
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Post by inkrunnercoon12 on Jul 31, 2011 1:46:16 GMT
People saying this is creepy is a bit odd, I don't even think there was anything sexual even with Surma. Dudes a magical fox; and I doubt that he is under any illusions otherwise. Possibly he had romantic feelings for Surma, but that doesn't strictly speaking mean anything sexual; and with Annie I think he views himself more as an older brother figure or something as far as she's concerned. I think Reynardine has the same feelings for Annie that he did for Surma, with some parental instincts mixed in. But, that's much better for him because unlike Surma, Annie returned those feelings. Also, unlike Surma, Annie didn't try to manipulate REynardine's feelings, nor would she. Say what you like about Surma, the way she treated Rey made her a bitch in my eyes.
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